Melee introduction 

Wow lmao

stop plz.

Ba dum fucking tss.

TragicLight97 I think you just ruined it...

TragicLight97 Ik It's just so stupid to say that you become stupid.

And Ice Climbers

+Hiino And Marth.

+Absolute Rua You're thinking of the super wavedash which is something different

+Absolute Rua You're thinking of the super wavedash which is something different

+Hiino thats the screech

A little slide on the ground*

Its stuff like Moonwalking that is a problem (I should never have to pull off TAS level stunts consistently without thinking about it). My opinion on advanced techniques as a whole is that they are fine but the controls could use some improvement (Wavedashing you can't really make any better though). Hopefully my comment doesn't start a flame war.

Can'tThinkofBetterName Why should it. It would waste time.

Carbon Hydra Yeah I read some arguement's stating why this shouldn't be the case and they are pretty convincing. I'm personally fine so long as my fingers aren't aching from practicing the technique. regardless why on earth are there 2 jump buttons when one of them could be used for other things.

Can'tThinkofBetterName There are technically 3 because of the control stick called "tap jump".

And strangely, it all makes sense when you try it. Mind = Blown

+LIKE THIS POST IF YOU FARTED TODAY ALSO It's actually pretty simple once you do it.

+UnicornSlaya a couple dozen times

CJ Summerlin Yeah, I still mess up though. I side b most of the time when I try to keep waveshining

you must not know fox's full wavedash length then

still crispy in the fact he can do them I dropped fox 6 months ago and I can't do it anymore

its SGDQ though

MLGKillimanjaroKid He's won sets vs good players in the midwest also lol

MLGKillimanjaroKid Yea Cosmo has gone to apex EVO and Big House, placing pretty well and killing top tiers with Zelda. If he didn't main Zelda he'd probably be as good if not better than Mew2king/Mango/Shiz several since his gaming IQ is so insane.

Blair Kallis He has a sheik also btw.

in related news...the sky is blue. No shit he has a Sheik it's the same character. But Cosmo has a very heavy bias towards using Zelda though, he goes out of his way to always use her instead of Sheik.

He did it half ass it's supposed to be a easy thing for fox mains

Pretty much my reaction when I first heard of this guy. Now he only does the Transition any% speedrun, he sucks at that apparently.

ikr it explains stuff really well

This is my favourite video series explaining advance tech. It's for how to learn Falco ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oyFVzE6qr_0.html

If you want an easy tutorial for Wavedashing that definitely helped me get better at it, then check out the video on wavedashing by Super Smash academy. They've got some pretty sweet videos. I honestly think that people trying to get better at this game should learn and master L-canceling before wavedashing though, as it's easier to get the timing down. Also, L-canceling has more immediate benefits.

Teching, l-canceling, and shield grabbing are the moves with the most immediate benefit to a beginner hop over to smashboards(.com) its a central hub of detailed techniques, guides, and discussion.

docs.google.com/document/d/1_6o5NHvI9P8-qHp2M8w1gDzL_-JNonEE81Mh4ulY1PY/edit this should help

Dawngaward0110 Thanks, I'll make sure to read it as soon as possible.

Not it's not, auto-ledge sweetspot landing lag glitch and random 1-2 frame input lag is flat out dumb. Slow run speeds, low gravity, no running momentum on jumps, and really slow ledge mechanics with really long invincibility windows/frames makes movement, one of the coolest things about Melee, extremely slow and linear. Hitstun cancelling, increased landing lag absolutely tears away Smash's unique combo system where both the comboer and comboee have 20+ options/factors to manage. Low gravity, huge ledge sweetspot sizes, and auto-snap ledges makes recoveries extremely good, which in turn demphasizes ledge game and what makes Smash matches so dynamic. Brawl is mostly just the neutral spacing game of Melee, except slowed down and simplified even further.

Brawl is barely even a fraction the skill cap of melee

K.Louis Have you not seen high level Brawl play? The game is much more accessible, but it high level play is no joke.

mojoface Beside, I'm sure we can all agree that we cannot wait for the next Smash eh?

Bahaha, brawl sucks compared to melee. There's a reason melee is played at tournies like evo and brawl isn't

I cant tell if you're saying i was being salty or not. But, I can tell you I'm not.

no, im not trying to bait anyone.

abdillin whats your point?

Cosmo has a girlfriend and the largest female following I've ever seen... you are aware thousands of women have paid him money to just look at his face... right?

*slow clap* Kappa

victraaa inorite

Scotty2DaDoubt what burn?

Why would he play project m when melee is better, and he already knows what it is. (i know you said this a month ago but still)

GodDangOl For something fresh probably. It's not as good as Melee but it's still fun and takes skill

***** It has the potential to be, but they're nerfing any characters that win tournaments instead of making other characters better, edge guarding is still impossible/dangerous vs a lot of the cast etc etc. It's to be expected as it's still in beta.

***** I'm fine with small changes like getting rid of Fox's disjointed legs or invincibility frames on shine, but they nerf anything that wins a tournament lol. Sonic got the nerf hammer when wizzrobe was doing well. They need more pros giving advice like m2k. The melee characters in PM are perfect as you'd expect from complete ports, but giving all the brawl characters insane recoveries to make them better is lazy, and bad game design. Part of what makes Melee so good is offstage play, which is really minimal right now in pm sadly.

***** There seems to be way too much emphasis on making B moves really really good. Quicker, cancelable or huge priority. Sonic, Ike and Zelda are good examples. These type of changes along with stuff like taking away Sheik's d-throw calling it OP then giving it to Pit makes me a bit shaky on trusting the people in charge of tweaking characters. Overall though, you're right. They've made a great mod so far, I just hope when it's out of beta they get all the kinks worked out. I don't think buffing Roy's recovery was a good idea. When they're done everybody is gonna have an at least decent recovery, which gets rid of a lot of the variety in characters. Roy was supposed to have a bad recovery, as seen with his short upB and really heavy weight. They should keep to that and keep his bad recovery, just make his stage control and hitboxes better instead.

I appreciate your perspective, but I feel like it's wrong. Let me explain: Many people (competitive players) would be enraged by the idea of "dumbing the game down", i.e. automatic L-cancelling, simpler wavedashing, etc. and while it seems elitist (and usually is) their arguments have a lot of validity. First, there is a matter of practicality and freedom. The great thing about melee and other good fighting games (project m!) is freedom and choice is how you play. You always have options. Do I approach with the dash attack? wavedash ftilt? shine? SHFFL Nair? the list goes on. Thing is, we only have so many buttons to cover all of those options, so we use more complex combinations of buttons. If there was a 'wavedash into upsmash' button, then that button wouldn't be used in combinations to create cool moves, so the number of options would decrease, and so would player choice. It's just not possible to pull off all of the crazy tricks and fun stuff in melee with "1/4 the button presses". Also, things like l-cancelling, which could be automatic without affecting other gameplay, are not just "obscure and arcane technical skill". I mean, why should I have to press a button to attack? shouldn't fox automatically attack when I get near an enemy? I admit that's a little extreme but where do we draw the line between what is reasonable and what isn't? L-cancelling isn't hard, it's literally pushing L right before you hit the ground. A good comparison is the active reload in Gears of War (if you haven't played it, essentially, when you reload, you can press the reload button a second time at a certain, exact time to make the reload quicker). That feature wasn't deemed arcane or obscure, it was praised, it gave players a chance to show off their skill and gain an advantage over their opponents.

Jackson Moore There definitely is a gray area in terms of where the line of reasonability is drawn. I personally think that the way that Brawl Minus did it is far superior and more in line with the original spirit of Smash than Project M is. In Minus, everyone has crazy good mobility-based moves, like Lucario's extreme speed actually being fast, being able to cancel into attacks out of it, not making him helpless, etc, or Ike being able to Quick Draw a million times in a row like a madman. They meet the speed, mobility, spacing, and positioning needs that wavedashing normally provides while not making the game any more technically complicated than the original Smash concept of "One button + One direction per move." They're technically simple, yet they have all the uses and benefits that wavedashing might have while keeping with the theme. That's what I think needs to be done more. Take out wavedashing and the requirement to hit a bunch of arbitrary buttons, but put the usefulness of the ability into other places.

SouthpawHare I see what what you mean, it's a good point. I guess the difficulty is part of the appeal for some, it makes it all the more satisfying when you do it right. I don't think melee is perfect... But I do think Project: M is! It's a brawl mod that has almost exactly what you describe (plus the melee stuff of l-cancelling, wavedashing, no tripping), i.e. Lucario can cancel extreme speed and his new down-b, which is essentially a longer wavedash with some startup lag and invincibility frames (he's incredible in P:M) and Ike can jump cancel quickdraw into basically any move, DK has some sweet combos, etc. The whole cast is rebalanced. Wavedashing and the like are still in, but are far less vital, making the game more approachable I think

Jackson Moore I know of Project M, as I mentioned. I think the Brawl Mods in general are great, but I think that Project M is a bit misguided in comparison to the likes of Brawl Minus or Brawl Plus. Rebalancing Brawl is a great idea, but doing so in the image of Melee isn't necessarily best in all cases. I was actually disappointed to see the return of the Shine-heavy Fox/Falco in Project M. I think that the Shine-based gameplay style of theirs should be removed and never looked back on. It's just personal preference at that point, but I can't help but look at Melee Fox/Falco and think, "This isn't what it was supposed to be like." It's all about original intent, I think. While there are those oft-cited quote about Sakurai knowing about wavedashing and stuff, I doubt he foresaw the, frankly, ridiculous-looking gameplay style that those characters became known for.

SouthpawHare While you stated an opinion and it can't be wrong, there are tons of fighting games out there that don't have these complicated presses. SSBM is something unique that appeals to a certain group of people that love it. Any game can be considered to have a "bad game design, elitist and have unnecessary buttons" depending on what the player wants, making that argument completely invalid. I honestly just don't see the point in what you are saying. Another thing that made the game great was that hardly any of these characters were used in their "original intent". The community played this game so hard they discovered things that the developers didn't even know would happen and made it meta. I understand you don't like some of that stuff, and that is cool, but you don't actually understand the core of the game if think there should be changes. It was a nicely designed, unique game with even better happy accidents.

Olox Hossono Heyo! :3

No, l-cancels only work with aerial a-button attacks. Landing animations can be wavelanded (pretty much just wavedashing but as you're landing, not as you're leaving the ground), but there's no attack to cancel, so no l-cancel.

Nope, Up-B'ing directly onto the stage can leave you pretty vulnerable when you land

hojecomirabanadas There are ways to cancel some b move landing animations. For example you can cancel spacie laser landing animation with walk forward, shield, wavedash, etc. This allows you to Isai laser drop or shield drop on as early as frame 5/8 as opposed to like frame 30 or so.

It's probably around 2012/2013.