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Melodic Math - Max Martin's Secret Songwriting Formula // Episode 14 

The Art of Songs
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In this i'm answering a question sent to me on Facebook by Sean. He wanted to know about the Melodic Math approach to songwriting used in pop music by Max Martin and others. So this lesson is all about the Melodic Math approach, what it is, and how we can use it in our own songwriting.
If you'd like to read the one of the main interviews that I used as a source then click the link below.
storytelling.di.se/max-martin...
If you liked this video you can find more songwriting tips and songwriting lessons on the Art of Songs channel. If you want to say Hi come and find me through any of the links bellow.
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31 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 714   
@matrixate
@matrixate 6 лет назад
2:35 Rule #1 Melody is King 4:16 Rule #2 Chorus within 50 seconds 5:18 Rule #3 No more than 3 to 4 parts 6:17 Rule #4 Recycle Melodic parts 8:16 Rule #5 Create Balance 9:31 Conclusion
@ZanTaylor
@ZanTaylor 5 лет назад
Mahalo
@NicholeCarterMusic
@NicholeCarterMusic 5 лет назад
agreed
@bradburleigh
@bradburleigh 5 лет назад
Thanks for sharing! Excited to practice this!
@bradburleigh
@bradburleigh 5 лет назад
@uhuh yes exactly.
@mightymouse5930
@mightymouse5930 5 лет назад
RIP real music
@BananaMationMan
@BananaMationMan 6 лет назад
speed x1.25 and it becomes a good video
@mrsmith160
@mrsmith160 6 лет назад
Hey your right im not falling asleep now
@PushedButton
@PushedButton 6 лет назад
x1.50 also fine.
@YEVV__
@YEVV__ 5 лет назад
man ... THANKS!
@brko_studios
@brko_studios 5 лет назад
x2 is even better...
@MikeBrayton
@MikeBrayton 5 лет назад
2x is weird, but totally works! :) thx.
@TheRoneZone
@TheRoneZone 4 года назад
I grew up on the music this guy wrote. And I still love pop to this day, in fact I’m currently working on being a pop producer. Yet my love for jazz and classical is still there. People who discredit pop have no idea what they’re talking about
@remotegod255
@remotegod255 6 лет назад
great analysis, very helpful for songwriters! I don't want my songs to sound anything like Max Martin, but I do see a huge value in understanding the tricks and methods behind one of the "biggest" songwriters in human history. thanks for sharing :)
@wandabhala933
@wandabhala933 4 года назад
True to take the formula and add your own spin
@romulo353
@romulo353 6 лет назад
This is gold man. This is rationalization done right.
@MrMrJameskeegan
@MrMrJameskeegan 3 года назад
You are a gifted analyzer, And you present naturally, in a welcoming way, with no falseness. A real compass, for people.searching for greatness. That missing chord.
@jacks7461
@jacks7461 6 лет назад
You're a lovely, listenable presenter
@oiuyuioiuyuio
@oiuyuioiuyuio 3 года назад
No he isn't, this is unbearable to watch. I'm not even homophobic but this is too much.
@superfriends8336
@superfriends8336 3 года назад
@Jacks yeah... no. his talking speed and ticks are absolutely cancerous
@mattycodd30
@mattycodd30 6 лет назад
This video was a massive help to my music technology project on Max Martin, there is not a lot of information online about his melodic math idea so this very clear video was extremely helpful. Thank you!
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thanks, I'm glad it helped you. Good luck with your project
@jesuslovestoastyaya
@jesuslovestoastyaya 6 лет назад
Legendary! Subbed! It's also nice to hear some of what I've naturally been doing echoed back here, but also lots of great tips I'd never thought of. I particularly liked the idea of recycling and using more simple melodies when you are using a more complex chord progression to counterbalance. Brilliant
@parkerault2607
@parkerault2607 6 лет назад
Subbed! Your deconstructions are really great, I love what you're doing here. Keep it up!
@foghornblue
@foghornblue 28 дней назад
This is invaluable, thank you! I've watched hundreds of songwriting videos, and this is one of the meatiest that I've come across. Well researched, and well explained. Subbed.
@julien4691
@julien4691 4 года назад
As usual, lovely guy, very clear explanations, amazing video animation, no click bait - this guy delivers QUALITY! And don't pay attention to people mentioning the fact that you speak slowly, they're just straight negative people, and don't have 10% of your ability to analyse songwriting.
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 4 года назад
Thanks Julien
@Miromarkus
@Miromarkus 6 лет назад
Great Info! People who dont like "positive pop music" (or some may call it cheesy songs") will use the chance here to write bad comments etc but fact is the majority of people DO like music that is based on such formulars. Also, people shouldnt blame Max Martin on that because these formulars exist since hundereds of years and even Classical composers were using melodic math. Thank you for sharing such great information!
@KOSMIKFEADRECORDS
@KOSMIKFEADRECORDS 4 года назад
good comment. but "negative pop music" is also a thing and is just as catchy!
@nguyenthanhnam6322
@nguyenthanhnam6322 2 года назад
@@KOSMIKFEADRECORDS what song is negative pop, sir
@jamiekarlcoupe
@jamiekarlcoupe 6 лет назад
Absolutely loved this video and found it so useful in line with what i have been looking into so far. Keep it coming if you can. Thanks
@BigMusicEnergy
@BigMusicEnergy 4 года назад
Max Martin is a phenom, and your vid really shows a glimpse into why! Great stuff!
@blakyoni7418
@blakyoni7418 6 лет назад
Thank you for the info in this video, it really was very helpful. What I have noticed is that there are quite a few nasty people leaving comments on your video. Ignore those people they probably don’t like themselves so I highly doubt they will like you. Ignore the nasty comments and concentrate on the nice ones. Thanks again for the video! 😊👍
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thanks, I'm pleased you found it helpful. I have no problem with people sharing there opinion it's what the comments section is for. As your channel name says everyone is entitled to their opinion 😊If you're willing to be open, even the negative comments can help you to grow and improve, some of the negative comments on here I actually don't disagree with, and the ones I do doesn't make them wrong just because I disagree. Thanks for your comment 👍
@pmsoundtrack140
@pmsoundtrack140 5 лет назад
Very interesting video: it's all about finding the balance between repetition without getting boring or surprise without loosing the listener. The 1 2 3 rule fits this (2 repetitions of a pattern before having the 3rd slightly modified)
@Zakuti
@Zakuti 6 лет назад
Very helpful video. Thanks for posting and thank you to Sean for asking!
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thank you
@AndyTheCameraGuy
@AndyTheCameraGuy 6 лет назад
Memorizing these methods and keeping them in mind when writing songs would be a great tool to have!
@casaMariaPT
@casaMariaPT 6 лет назад
Absolutely fascinating! Liked and subbed. Looking forward to catching up on all of this series.
@NoahNorth
@NoahNorth 25 дней назад
Listened in 1.5 speed playback and it changed the video for me 💫
@adriatic123
@adriatic123 6 лет назад
Don't get too hooked. Those rules and some more are known to many people for years, even before Max era. Even I know them and quite alot more. Yet there are so few successful songwriters. Why? Because Max is highly talented for writing melodies. That's what distinguish him from thousands guys that know same rules as he does. If there were for toolbox there would be thousands of rich songwriters. Life isn't that easy.
@theswedishmusicstudio
@theswedishmusicstudio 3 года назад
This!!!
@da4mula885
@da4mula885 3 года назад
Sometimes it is tho
@jameseverett4976
@jameseverett4976 3 года назад
I'm starting to think there's more to "hit" songs than just writing a good tune with good harmony. Fame, and what becomes famous or accepted as "great" is a very interesting thing to study. The more agreement that you're 'cool' and the more attention you get, the more people value what you do, and are willing to "see" in it. Once you're noticed, mentioned, and praised by enough people, then suddenly more people are willing to listen to you, and see the good in what you did, trust what you did as "good", take advice from you, etc. and most of all give you the benefit of the doubt. This is why McCartney's music still sells, even though he can't write a decent song anymore. If he hadn't been a Beatle, nothing he did after the break-up would have been noticed. And most people will disagree with that because they won't take into account the red carpet he was already walking on by then. They don't see how their preconceived assumptions and therefore their judgement, works. They can't really imagine him as a 'nobody' they've never heard of, and who no record company would give the time of day to, even if his stuff was pretty good. They also don't understand how the record industry worked at that time, never mind now. Everyone wants to be on a bandwagon, and ride with a crowd, so they look for wagons to get on so they can ride with that crowd and "see" what that crowd sees. Notice how political views are not very mixed. People who accept certain political views will more likely accept certain other ones, often without evaluating them thoroughly. That's because the people they consider to be "right" have to be right about everything else, or lose some of their credibility, which would cause them to be questioned on what they say. I'm over 6 decades now, and have watched the music industry change so drastically, that it appears that "what makes a great song" has changed as well. I always thought there were these timeless principles & qualities to 'good music', but those qualities have all -and I mean ALL - gone out the window since the 1970s, and been replaced with other "qualities". I seems that when the basic mentality of society changes enough, so come changes in artistic tastes. Another observation is that musicians tend to suck in their musical tastes - they more often tend to like songs & styles that are not really all that popular with the larger masses, although there are enough people who will buy those records to keep a band making a living. But they don't have the mass appeal that other types of music do. You will never convince one of those musicians that this is the case of course, because they "know" for sure what is good and what isn't. But they can't write big mass appeal hits....for some reason. They keep writing the stuff THEY think is good, and wonder why it's not a massive hit. So at least 1 of my theories on why it's so hard to write a hit is that the people who write songs - musicians - tend to have "off-ish" tastes, and of course write stuff that appeals to them, not to the majority of people, i.e non-musicians.
@jameseverett4976
@jameseverett4976 3 года назад
@Bike thanks! I almost deleted that after finishing it, feeling sure no one would read it anyway, because it's too long. And the average person would probably see it as pointless rambling about nothing. ;)
@ransbarger
@ransbarger 3 года назад
@@jameseverett4976 I think you are on to something James. Sadly, you are right about Maca, and I worship the Beatles.
@dealphamuszic7215
@dealphamuszic7215 6 лет назад
Thank you for this information, and continue the great work.
@akymrinkovsky289
@akymrinkovsky289 6 лет назад
That's very cool I got more out of it this time. It seems as my keyboard skills improve so does my ability to understand song structure. Thanks friend for sharing
@empyre3348
@empyre3348 6 лет назад
Good stuff, so little we know about max but we all look up to him & how prolific he is
@yoericktv9610
@yoericktv9610 4 года назад
Thanks a lot for taking the time to make this video. Subbed!
@ElijahLynn
@ElijahLynn 2 года назад
Thanks for this!! Great to look at techniques like this, practice emulating them and then blend the parts I like into my own style! We all got where we are by emulating others, from the basics of learning how to crawl then walk as a baby (we saw adults do the walking first). I am not sure anyone just created a song without hearing other songs first, which they ultimately emulated, just look at the classical music era.
@wallywamper9547
@wallywamper9547 6 лет назад
Absolutely Amazing, what a wonderful episode.
@maylightbewithyou
@maylightbewithyou 6 лет назад
You are awesome for making these videos. Thank you!
@wouterdesmedt1736
@wouterdesmedt1736 6 лет назад
Pure gold! Thanks for making this!
@d-alphamuszic2319
@d-alphamuszic2319 6 лет назад
Thank you for this great information it has really help me developed my song writing. Continue the great work.
@RudolfDiesel_III
@RudolfDiesel_III 6 лет назад
Thanks a lot. You put into words what I only felt intuitively. Very useful!
@AXCuban
@AXCuban 6 лет назад
amazing video. I recommend this video for any songwriter out there
@jaersee
@jaersee 6 лет назад
Greetings from La Paz, Bolivia!!! 🇧🇴 🤘 Excellent video 👍
@patrissiarolle9066
@patrissiarolle9066 2 года назад
Thanks guy , your voice is so calming
@geoffstockton
@geoffstockton 6 лет назад
My man, Aragorn is writing ALL the hits these days.
@nagual2335
@nagual2335 6 лет назад
Also notice that many times the note melody that falls on the beat, is not part of the chord, but an "off note" (like 9th, 6th, 4th etc.)
@carolincas
@carolincas 5 лет назад
this was magnificent! thanks for taking the time
@BenLevin
@BenLevin 6 лет назад
This was really interesting, thank you for the research and great presentation!
@joshhickman528
@joshhickman528 5 лет назад
BEN LEVIN
@joshhickman528
@joshhickman528 5 лет назад
I LOVE YOU
@dinfluence30
@dinfluence30 6 лет назад
Your video is awesome and full of treasure information. Thanks
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thank you
@haui82
@haui82 6 лет назад
Thank you for the information :) Rule #1: 2:36, rule #2: 4:17, rule #3: 5:19, rule #4: 6:17, rule #5: 8:16
@LeilahRN15
@LeilahRN15 6 лет назад
Great Video, crazy amount of value in this. Thank you.
@seanemmettfullerton
@seanemmettfullerton 6 лет назад
Thanks, good job! Mere-exposure (or familiarity principle) has been used for centuries by all the greats, from Bach, Vivaldi, Beethoven, Wagner and onward. It's vital to all writing, whether pop, film scoring, or obnoxious commercial jingles :) Good lesson!
@romancatello6330
@romancatello6330 7 лет назад
Bro, youve got no idea how this has helped me. God bless you my friend! Thank you so very much!
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 7 лет назад
Thank you so much for your comment, I'm glad it was helpful to you.
@hippojuice23
@hippojuice23 6 лет назад
Now we need to take what we've learned and actually do something creative with it!
@martind349
@martind349 6 лет назад
I'm getting charged up to quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus.
@domwujek8900
@domwujek8900 6 лет назад
Wow mate. Ive been doing wierd music for a long time started with electronic then got into composition and now I want to learn how to make more normal and approachable stuff. This channel seems to be great for me. you got mu sub.
@victorgabrielbuena
@victorgabrielbuena 6 лет назад
Thank you very much for this information; and also you have a lovely voice! 😀
@robertbrice2108
@robertbrice2108 6 лет назад
Very helpful, thanks for posting this video. Some of the ideas I've been using, so that made me feel good, and some others that I'm going to try. I love your analytical approach. It seems counter-intuitive when you're creating in an art form, but it really helps.
@RedRiverChannel
@RedRiverChannel 6 лет назад
Back in the 1990s Max Martin was invited to work with Denniz Pop, in the legendary Cheiron Studio which would become one one of the world's most successful pop studios for its time. If you listen to Denniz first major hit ''Hello Africa'' by Dr Alban you'll understand what Max means with clarity. The song is very simple (instruments kept to a minimum), and you can clearly hear how instruments are gradually introduced. The chorus start exactly at 50 sec.
@tomasrodriguez3626
@tomasrodriguez3626 3 года назад
Highly Superb Info Mate! Cheers!!
@Anvyy
@Anvyy 4 года назад
Awesome information. Max Martin is a machine!
@toladep
@toladep 6 лет назад
Great video, I loved the way it was organized. thanks so much :)
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thank you
@shaonemusic
@shaonemusic 6 лет назад
Super useful & really easy to digest, thanks Ali!
@beatz04
@beatz04 5 лет назад
Thanks ! In a recent interview he also revealed that one basic principle he follows is what he calls "The Prince Theory" - unfortunately the interviewer interrupted him way too early, but this is what i took away: Apparently in a lot of Prince songs either the melody or the chords in the verse are actually the same as in the chorus. He said Prince would tease the chorus already in the verse this way. Funny as i'm a huge Prince fan but i never noticed that. My own addition when it comes to Prince would be that in a lot of songs he uses a primary (instrumental) hook, supported by a secondary hook that gets introduced later in the song. This way he manages to keep the interest of the listener without repeatin the same thing over and over again.
@dlnzproductions
@dlnzproductions 4 года назад
Very true indeed! I actually spent time working with Prince at Paisley Park in 2013. Sometimes Prince has a formula but most times he just picks up whatever instrument is within reach and just jams out. Once he figures he has something that works, he starts calling in the band (3rd Eye girl) to teach the parts one at at time. Once completed, then I would get the signal from him to mic him up and start recording. Checkout the song "Another Love" from him when you get a chance, It is a perfect example of the process mentioned.
@pulkitkumar3206
@pulkitkumar3206 6 лет назад
This was so helpful....Thank you so much.
@AllanGildea
@AllanGildea 6 лет назад
This was a real help - thanks so much.
@Gioribbonmicrophones
@Gioribbonmicrophones 6 лет назад
thank you so much for all this information, good vibes for you!
@c-nikskemez3982
@c-nikskemez3982 6 лет назад
Very informative video mate. Great stuff, keep it up!
@furryz666
@furryz666 6 лет назад
Math Martin
@champ10ns08
@champ10ns08 5 лет назад
Maths Martin more like ;)
@aknezonthebeat9271
@aknezonthebeat9271 4 года назад
What is the name of this type of identification that is made of the melody of parts A, B, C ...? Shown instantly ---> 3:50
@samuelbeltran7008
@samuelbeltran7008 3 года назад
LOL
@LokiBeckonswow
@LokiBeckonswow 6 лет назад
Fantastic content man, much appreciated!
@keen4640
@keen4640 5 лет назад
Thank you very much for this information. Really great visual aids.
@BarbaraBurgesspsychic
@BarbaraBurgesspsychic 3 года назад
thank you - I can understand what you are saying and it all makes sense - thanks again
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 3 года назад
No problem, so glad it helped you
@tommyflowers7098
@tommyflowers7098 2 года назад
Brilliant video. Thanks so much!
@WhiteLionExperimentalMusic
@WhiteLionExperimentalMusic 4 года назад
Arvo Pärt (Estonia, 1935), the most played living composer during 2011-2018, is also composing classical and religious music that is strictly governed by mathematical rules. His piece "Fratres" composed for piano and violin should instantly convince you how pattern based music can evoke very strong emotions, perhaps even stronger than arbitrary approach to making music, because human brains subconsciously pick up the signals of patterns hidden in music and therefore people like it more. This is something closely related to what Ali said about the mere-exposure effect.
@KerryFairbanks
@KerryFairbanks 7 месяцев назад
Two points also with MM songs: recognizable within the first 1-2 seconds (ie Hit Me Baby One More Time, Bye Bye Bye), elementary school reading level lyrics (simple language)
@beatballermusic
@beatballermusic 6 лет назад
Merci beaucoup!!!! So helpful 🙏🙏
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thank you
@showpony321
@showpony321 5 лет назад
Love it, top job, thank you!
@pineoandloeb
@pineoandloeb 3 года назад
This is great, thank you!
@brittanylee430
@brittanylee430 3 года назад
This was very insightful. Thank you!
@d-alphamuszic5132
@d-alphamuszic5132 6 лет назад
Thank you so much continue your good work bro.
@MartinWolfinger
@MartinWolfinger 6 лет назад
Very interesting, thanks you!
@arjanmadan2521
@arjanmadan2521 6 лет назад
This was a really good video. I subscribed!
@Dadolinaswing
@Dadolinaswing 5 лет назад
Thank you! This is extremely helpful
@AliciaSpurlock
@AliciaSpurlock 6 лет назад
Thank you! This was great, I appreciate it :)
@roberto3522
@roberto3522 5 лет назад
Recommend watching this at 1.5x speed
@josesoraca4625
@josesoraca4625 4 года назад
What is the name of this type of identification that is made of the melody of parts A, B, C ...? Shown instantly ---> 3:50
@hextikwilliams1494
@hextikwilliams1494 4 года назад
It made it so much easier!
@LivingUnlabeled
@LivingUnlabeled 4 года назад
Jose LMM Can you rephrase that question Jose
@josesoraca4625
@josesoraca4625 4 года назад
​@@LivingUnlabeled thanks but i already found the answer.
@barryzito5721
@barryzito5721 3 года назад
Incredible video thank you
@ItsFrankPierce
@ItsFrankPierce 6 лет назад
You really blessed people. I don't think they know how much gold you've given out.
@TheArtofSongs
@TheArtofSongs 6 лет назад
Thanks so much, I really appreciate that
@lonelykid4792
@lonelykid4792 6 лет назад
Aye! Tipsy Recs fam in the house!
@mthomas1091
@mthomas1091 6 лет назад
Nice toolbox lesson & direct presentation, thanks!
@Sebastian_Roth
@Sebastian_Roth 6 лет назад
Thank you - i am a max martin and deniz pop fan too!
@TorHadrian1
@TorHadrian1 6 лет назад
Very insightful information. Thanks a lot!
@SiaNas
@SiaNas 6 лет назад
Some great tips here. I am taking notes.
@PhreezyOnTheBeat
@PhreezyOnTheBeat 6 лет назад
thorough analysis thank you
@redrubyermishow2729
@redrubyermishow2729 6 лет назад
Great channel, keep it coming!!
@Stephanie9959
@Stephanie9959 5 лет назад
This was a helpful and well presented video. Thank you.
@JeffBostick222
@JeffBostick222 3 года назад
Just popped out of my head - Trance Blues has used this repeating melodic idea since....I don't know when.
@theiammike123
@theiammike123 6 лет назад
This is such a great video. Very informative.
@tarikaiesec
@tarikaiesec 6 лет назад
Great effort and knowledge, thank you 👍
@apbweezle
@apbweezle 6 лет назад
Very well done.
@Brothervice2024
@Brothervice2024 3 года назад
Great video! Thank you brother!
@Dan-pq1tp
@Dan-pq1tp 2 года назад
Very helpful! Thanks
@GarrettMusic1
@GarrettMusic1 6 лет назад
Melodic Math, interesting, I'm glad I watched this video! Thank you
@DAVET0NE
@DAVET0NE 6 лет назад
Interesting - thanks for sharing your insights !
@abe6860
@abe6860 2 года назад
Thank you for the video fam! Very informational! :D
@hanslivio387
@hanslivio387 6 лет назад
Awesome content man ! Keep it up :)
@Marvin_Alain
@Marvin_Alain 6 лет назад
Very helpful. Thank you!
@theoppositeofsad
@theoppositeofsad 6 лет назад
intro startled me but great video!!! Big ups !
@sgperson101
@sgperson101 5 лет назад
Great video man, really helped me
@bizzy1648
@bizzy1648 5 лет назад
You're adorable. Thank you for all the knowledge. Keep going!
@NewVoiceSound
@NewVoiceSound 4 года назад
I agree very thankful for the work and research that this guy has done
@Astrovic1
@Astrovic1 4 года назад
Thank you for the really helpful and interesting content:)
@NativeEarthlingAI
@NativeEarthlingAI 5 лет назад
Tip for presenter: Take your spoken presentation and speed it up to 1.25X in the edit program to keep the energy up
@kaaruaji
@kaaruaji 6 лет назад
Great job!. Liked this and subscribed.
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