Why are we stuck with the old desktop metaphor? 

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The appeal of the current desktop metaphor in my opinion is the flexibility. By working with files and separate applications, things stay decoupled and indepedent. You can have separate windows if you're working on two or more things at the same time. If you tie your files with your apps, congratulations you now have something like iOS where you can't really take control of your data anymore, and you can't do two things at a time.

Situation: There are 14 competing standards. "14? Ridiculous! We need to develop one universal standard that covers everyone's use cases. " Situation: There are 15 competing standards.

This is a great lesson of how UX and "efficiency" are not the same for a machine as they are for a human. Redundancy can make sense. A taskbar typically shows open and commonly opened apps, an app picker's job is to give an overview of everything that's available to launch stand-alone. "You never really worry about ..." yeaaaah... no. I don't even know where to begin with telling you that there are MANY use cases where a file doesn't imply the same UI/workflow. Wanna play the video file or edit it? Wait, you don't want to load up a full-on editing suite just for playing it? Wait, the UI is too cluttered for editing hi-res video because your UI needs to be able to adapt to various use cases? And auto-hide isn't doing it for you, because you may only sometimes want that stuff to get out of the way? A text file isn't a text file, but rather a chat history you intended to view in a dedicated app? Oh, wait it isn't a text file, but a settings file and you accidentally opened it, but due to some funky extension it opens in an unexpected app... Only that you won't know, because the UI isn't app-based, but intent-based. You won't know if the modules loaded treat the file in the way you'd expect. And the critique for skeuomorphism really doesn't make sense to me.... Do we want to get rid of it, just because it has an IRL equivalent? Also, whenever you focus on simple UIs you'll be overloaded with demands for edge use cases that become increasingly hard to embed. We talk a lot about tech debt, my last point shall be how there's also user ability debt. If you break the habits of people too much you'll come up with an unmanagable mess of new tech iliteracy.

I feel that forcing a unified way of working is not appropriate for efficient workflows. For example, when building a house, the framer, finishing carpenter, plasterer, electrician, and plumber, all have different paradigms for getting their work done even though they are all working on the same house. That is, different aspects of a project require particular methodologies that are optimal for that task. Computer workflows are no different. By the way, of all the distros that I have tried, I find that Tuxedo OS (i.e., Kubuntu KDE Plasma) is exactly what I want for computer interaction, and I would not change a single thing.

You are describing an OS set for a very specific user case, yours. But a computer is designed to be used by any kind of people, with all kinds of software and processes, any kind of needs. That is why we have the flexible design that can accommodate everyone, with or without some changes. Just as you say, I will also add my subjective opinion: - the Desktop - we are humans, we don't need only functionality, as if that was the case, we wouldn't have created art. We are not robots, so I couldn't care less about just clicking once to start working, I can do 2 clicks if I enjoy more my experience. Plus, the simple existence for decades with nothing better to replace it (there were tries), shows that until now we don't have a truly better replacement. - System Tray - one of the best inventions for some background tasks. I can see if the VPN is connected and interact with it in one click, I can see the battery level and set the power level (used to be like that), I can tell Shutter to make a screenshot without opening it, I can see if my Remote Desktop app is online and working fine, I can see which GPU I am using (Intel or Nvidia), in the past (on Windows) I could see and do things with the antivirus etc. And no, hiding those things isnnot better, I want to know some of those work without clicking 2000 times a day to open some kind of window. Phones have this, too, of course, adapted to a small touch-screen interface; you can see the battery level, if you are on wifi or mobile data, if bluetooth is on, the time, if there are alarms set, if the VPN is on etc. It is the flexibilty of these that makes the computer functional for everyone. Imposing some niche needs over the needs of all is not the way forward, it will never work.

Microsoft spent a lot of resources on UI research during win95 development, there is a reason why they offer same ui.

I always found the current iteration of modern start menus (minus the ones riddled with ads) fairly efficient if you're using them properly. For apps I'm familiar with, I'll hit the Windows key, start typing the app name, then hit enter to launch it when it appears. If I'm using something I dont open as often I'm willing to take the extra second or two to click through the GUI categories to get to the app I'm looking for. With things I'm using often, Im essentially bypassing the GUI with some fast typing on the keyboard which is very efficient, and for ones I may not remember the name of the GUI categories will guide me to them with little hassle.

I don't have a problem with the desktop metaphor. I do agree that implementations can be done better. As far as your "idea" of a document-centered interface instead of the application-centered norm, this has been discussed, prototyped, etc. many times. If anyone could succeed, it would be Apple or Microsoft, but they haven't. The incentive of the lock-in is great, but they haven't done it. There's a lesson there.

i feel it's the same type of idea that led humanity to Juicero. Is it really better to have everything in a single workspace? What if i want play some music while i work, check if my server is not down, reply in 3 different messengers and still remember what i was working on?

The computer will know what to launch (or what to close) by reading the expression on your face. Good use case for shoving some more AI-based spyware into our computers.

I find it funny that we both had the same idea but coming from completely different positions. Many years ago when I thought of what you call this "canvas" idea, I thought of it exactly BECAUSE of the desktop metaphor. When we, in the physical world, bring something to work on our desks, we can interact with it using whatever tool we want, a knife or hammer or highlighter etc - so making every relevant tool available to a file as needed, like you show, is actually closer to the real life top of a desk than what we have now. BTW, there even is a lot of software already doing it, freeCAD with their "workbenches" for one example, DaVinci Resolve for another (where you can change the whole workflow and layout and focus through those "tabs" at the bottom, going to the VFX panel, Audio, Colour Correcting, etc). Sill, of course we both know it is absolutely impossible to have a system like you described here - some mime types are simply incompatible. While on my actual desk if I want to draw using rulers and protractors and take note of every line length and curve and describe it with a single "formula", but also put a sticker or photo of someone, no change is needed to the underlying "file" - while on the PC of course raster and vector are completely different beasts, and that can be repeated for literally every single file format. If you annotate a PDF should it be saved in a sidecar file or merged into the image of the pdf? If you copy and paste do you want a jpg to be taken inside a graphics editing or do you want to copy the text into a text editor? Or maybe even the nodes of each letter from the typeface to be imported into some layouting/publishing or vector software. And so on.

Great video. I don't like how people dismiss it out of hand in the comments. You pointed out some real problems and came up with an idea that at least can inspire some new thinking around workflows. Comments saying it has been tried in the 90's are also just ignoring how much easier it is to make stuff these days. I do think the file automatically being able to switch context would require enormous hacks or an impossible protocol. But it could work for specific domains. Glad you are sharing these ideas, please keep doing it. It's a better idea than many of the arguments made against it.

For context, I was a tiling window manager user and recently switched to KDE. Desktop: Personally I don't use a classical desktop; no icons and no background image. Even on KDE. Launchers: The start menu is useful to find apps when you don't know or forget name of the application. My preferred way is searching instead using the menu, but having a list of apps categorized into genres and alphabetically sorted is something I do not want to miss. At least in KDE a short description with easy to understand keywords can be included below the application name. I personally dislike what Gnome does and replaces each app name by generic terms. Having said this, I really appreciate and like your idea presented at 6:50, which is file or task oriented workflow. The idea basically is to have a single application window, which will get filled by menu items from other programs functionality in a dynamic way, like a plugin. That's an interesting design philosophy. But this does not need to replace entire desktops, it is enough to be "just" another program which other programs can support by providing an extension/plugin. It just needs an API and service that runs all the time to hotplug functionality. System Tray: It's actually useful and I like it. No need to open a window or place something on my visible workarea, no need to switch window, especially with maximized windows. And even more important when you use multiple virtual desktops. The system tray will always show me relevant information in a very small area of the screen, regardless what window I have visible and which desktop I am in. I argue, the systray is even one of the most useful features of a PC system. Even smartphones have it. Gnome did it way worse. No longer are tray icons visible, which would show me some information or state of an app. It's hidden in mulitple clicks away. Menus: Menus itself aren't a problem, its only a problem if devs put too much into it. The hamburger menu made it even worse for me, as the menu items are behind another click. Ubuntus retired Unity desktop had this neat global menu system, which only displayed items relative to the current active window. Kind of similar to your previous discussed idea of task based workflow. Titlebars & Windows: Now my time has come. Automatic tiling of windows should be the norm, as manually managing windows is terrible. Off course with exceptions. Title bar is mostly needed to move a window and should only be displayed when having floating windows. But one can still resize and move windows by holding a key and moving mouse too, or with shortcuts. Overall I also use a lot of terminal, which has its place. Every PC user should learn how to use the terminal, to get the most out of the computer. And I mean everyone, even non technical users. Because I am convinced that every non technical user would have a benefit of learning some basic terminal functionality going forward in their life using a pc. I'm actually surprised you didn't "touch" the subject of touch. I was expecting a touch screen friendly and focused user interface from you.

Your opinions are as insightful as your ideas are creative. I'd be very curious to try out even those suggestions I strongly disagreed with. Great video overall. I'd love to watch a deep dive into any of these particular topics (say, how launchers have evolved and how they're done by different desktop environments), as well as how you'd go about redesigning them in more detail.

"We are stuck with the desktop" -- 😂 laughs in tilng window manager

I actually love this idea of rethinking how we use our apps, and you make some great points here. Personally I'd like to be able to work in a more task/project-oriented manner, so for example fire up all the necessary apps/windows to work on a given thing and then close them all down in a way that can be restored again later for future work on that task/project. I can approximate this using e.g., "workspaces" in VS Code, multiple profiles in Chrome, virtual desktops, etc, but this is still pretty clunky. I'd love to have something that works for all apps globally, streamlines context switching and keeps resource usage to a minimum.

One of the main issues with the way we interact with a computer isn't just the software, but the hardware as well. The keyboard and mouse are inefficient devices, that slow down input, and haven't changed for years. There have been attempts, but none have really moved the physical interface forward. We're moving towards 3d scanning being good enough to see and translate body movements in to inputs, it's good but not quite there. The future of computing needs a holistic look at both sofware and hardware to move forward.

Really miss the Windows XP and previous start menu. Nothing stuck in a tiny box to endlessly scroll. If I have hundreds of entries, it'll just open a new page next to the old one, both spanning the full vertical screen space.

For system tray, every app should have a colored and a black and white version (both dark and light color for it to be adapted to the curent theme), so that they all use the same style (all flat black and white or all colored depending on user choice), except if we add an exception for one (the OS or the user do it, not the app itself). One useful exception of putting color is the one of screen recording, but it's a display option we can change, not the only available icon for the feature.

gnome should have a clipboard manager like kde, that can support text, images and files etc.

I think the gnome overview effect would be phenomenal if applied to a VR desktop type environment I always felt the effect was akin to me backing away from my desk to see the whole thing then sitting back down with a smaller section of specific things directly in front of me I'm dyslexic and visualizations really help me organize my thoughts

The great thing about the HUD is it could integrate with LLM assistance, but also integrates nicely with global menus and app menus. I really, really like the traditional menu metaphor for the most part, but certainly appreciated being able to hit one (consistent) hotkey and search for a menu as well. If you don't want to break people's workflows, having something that can incrementally improve upon existing paradigms *and* hook into cutting edge innovations seems key. The problem of course is that even in the Compiz days not all apps played nice with the global menu, a situation that is far worse in 2024 as the Age of Electron continues. Actually, a good way to get me to *want* an chatbot integrated into my desktop would be as a HUD/Global Menu support for apps that don't have one.

Come to think of it, isn't this kiiiind of what Blender is slowly turning into. I've more-or-less given up on getting into it because of the steep learning curve, but it's impressive how many different forms of media you can edit in so many different ways, and the modes just flow into one another without a rigid distinction.

I have tested these Laptop models and brands for compatibility with Linux Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Asus ROG G752 VSK I7 OC GTX1070, HP Zbook G4 Zeon CPU and Quadro GPU , Asus TUF Ryzen9 RTX2060, Lenovo Legion 5pro AMD Ryzen7 RTX 3070 all worked with no issues, keyboard back lighting and secondary key functions worked for the most part otherwise a slider for screen and keyboard brightness was offered via the battery control settings.

You aren't talking from a UX standpoint, you're talking from a YouX standpoint. I think that the way system trays are always visible is core to their role as an indicator and access point for background processes, and they should be mixing apps with system state because these aren't mutually exclusive properties. The state of my VPN client is decidedly app state, but it qualifies and extends the network connectivity info and both are required to understand the state of the network as observed by client apps.

About tiling/floating windows: Most of the time, you do one thing at a time (as no human can really focus on multiple tasks and will always be less efficient trying to). In these cases, you need neither tiling nor floating, but just one window shown at a time. This needs to be handled well first, but both tiling and floating WMs suck at this. In some occasions, you do need 2 or more windows at a time (like your example: take notes _on_ a web page). For this, tiling seems to be the most efficient solution. The only window manager focusing on the "one window at a time" use case (which is 90 % of all use cases) I know is Apple Stage Manager. It also sucks, but at least, they identified the problem :D A really good window manager should make "one window at a time" the default, but offer easy ways to switch to a selection of multiple windows and back to one.

Not sponsored by Gnome?? 🤨😅

I never really thought about the inconsistency of system trays, but you're right. I almost never know whether I'm supposed to left- or right-click to do my desired action.

6:45 You reinvented Microsoft Office Word with OLE technology

Funny, I just recently finished Accursed Farms' GUI video which holds up extremely well 4 years later. I like a more Windows-style layout and have even dabbled in GNOME and window tiling on occasion. I'm learning to appreciate GNOME's intuitiveness more but it's still not my favorite. I guess these conventions are only efficient inasmuch as they are familiar but there are certainly other methods.

I don't like iOS, so pretty sure I wouldn't like this. One of the great things about Linux is it can truly be set up for the user and the way the user desires to work. That is efficiency. If you like tiling systems, you can run that way. If you want to run your file-based approach, you can set that up. If you want a more traditional desktop, go for it. I am a *nix user from before Linux was even a thought. I have worked about every type of setup there is. Now, I prefer a pretty minimal desktop with a simple launcher that has the primary apps I use. For scripting or performing workflows, I always have the terminal there. I don't care about all the other apps that are there in the menu/launcher, which is why that doesn't matter.

I get your point on the task oriented approach and it make sense, but I think is simplistic approach, in the sense that while those tasks struggle to accommodate a complex workflow as document edition it will quickly turn into an app as we know it. Optimizing the task experience is what we call now an app. Gimp moved from the floating window/widgets into the window, we might explore there on the reasons, maybe just users wanting something they know but to me was a mess to find options in the old Gimp.

Plan9 interface, and I know it sounds crazy, is really a depature from the desktop metaphor to the point you do something along the line you have envisioned. You create a window and then start a task that will be hosted in that window. You can plumb actions that will open specific windows, based on what text you've clicked on, without caring too much about what is the corresponding app. Plan9 is taking the UNIX concept of "everything is a file" to the extreme: even windows are files and they have a separated namespace and a filesystem hierarchy. I know, it is implemented in a way that is not usable by the standard user and basically, is all about text based interfaces (even if they are implemented graphically as a first citizen, you work with text), but if you get used to those quirky ways of doing things, you will see that is really another metaphor, completely new, from what you are used to (and perhaps "innovative" in that sense). It is a research operating system after all (you cannot use it for your day to day activities) but it tries to do something very different, even if it is *very* old.

I LOVE the current conventions, it's actually the one thing windows got pretty much right from 95 - 7. They're really efficient and keep a lot of important information handy and make adding launchers etc easy. The vast majority of people don't change their bar and menus all the time, they tend to put there what they run/need the most and then leave it alone. What I don't like is people who keep trying to invent new stuff for the sake of it instead of fixing bugs. For example, how many different sound systems has linux gone through, and then when finally one would work fine without issues in 95% of apps, it had to be changed again. How about making fonts more consistant among different applications without odd ones popping in and out or being different because you run gnome but it's a kde app. Make video processing programs being able to process the same types of video/file formats. Those are things that really make the user's life easier. But this kind of stuff isn't sexy with animated effects, it's just what the user wants, but the programmer doesn't.

Redesigning is good, but I think there are certain things that need to remain as is. It's like the checkbox design that has been changed to a round circle with a check mark, becoming indistinguishable from radio buttons. Changing should be done if it would make it more useful and flatten the learning curve for newcomers. It's what I see being done by GNOME, like getting rid of menu bars. However, their view isn't suitable for everyone. In fact, toolbars are better than menu bars, as long as you can personalize the icons that you use to suit you better, and of course, have a search box for quick access to less used functionalities. Overall, your idea isn't really bad, but looks pretty niche; as people would play games while listening to music and sometimes have a second and even third monitor with their chat window and streaming page for quick feedback.

Well, all these suggestions are good and I agree with you about them, but they still part of the desktop metaphor. I truly believe that the best metaphor would be the "conversation" metaphor. The problem of this metaphor is that... computers aren't great talkers, they do take things too literally and only accept perfectly constructed messages (commands). This is what we do when we're using the terminal. However, if we managed to make the computer a better talker, then I believe this would be unparalleled in efficiency. For example, you can say "create a new picture", and the computer would open the default app for this and save the result of what you do. After that, you could say "export to video editor and place it as a thumbnail of project Video_001" and it would open your default video editor and add the previous picture in the first frame, and so on. I mean, this could be a very effective use of language models trained for this specific task. PS: I know you that what you said about keyboard and accessibility is probably a mainstream opinion and made out of sincere kindness, but I have a hunch that this is not the case. I believe that keyboards are more accessible to PwD than the mouse. It is more reliable, can be customized for different inputs, key sizes etc. and definitely is less dependent on manual accuracy or visual acuity. It is easier to use with voice-to-text too. Additionally, I use a sway config that was made by a Karl Wood, wonderful person, who has Parkinson's Disease, and made this config so that he and other people with PD (or related accessibility issues) can operate the computer effectively. You can check it here: github.com/EllaTheCat/dopamine-2024 (...I know you're not a big fan of wm, but this is a nice config and deserve some love/stars)

Win8 Metro active tiles were an interesting alternative. With one glance you could get a lot of information. Not unlike Star Trek does on it's cool LCARS displays.

This looks like the pre-GUI philosophy of acting on data with small specialized utilities and piping them together. It also suggests that we move away from file ownership by applications. Fascinating, though it would take a bold implementation that catches on. Or maybe a really famous person, movie or movement.

I'm from the days of the command line so I'm always converting applications, files, and the "desktop" to where they actually are in the directories (not "folders") on the hard drive. The desktop metaphor always felt at best patronizing or at worst condescending to using a computer. I don't think I can change. Sure, a GUI is pretty, but I still want to know where everything is, especially for organization and space conservation.

That's not a bad idea for productivity workflows! If there was a system in place for handing a 'project' filetype between various editors (video, audio, picture, etc.) for a finalized project, I'm sure that would be wonderful for people in that field; same goes for presentations and other productivity-based projects. In other situations where an individual might only have a single task, this workflow might not be as pleasant, such as playing video games or the elderly people I assist who might only need help dealing with emails, browsing, and social media use. The current desktop interface to me is the perfect balance accounting for everyone's unique computer interactions, but if you want it to be better, you can always customize it to your heart's content, like you said. Lemme keep my system tray tho! Hehe

Gnome and Apple system tray are useless, KDE is the only acceptable one because you can actually configure it. I like your idea though.

thing about UI is that you shouldn't change conventions unless the new thing is 1000% uniquivocally better. it has to be so much better than it's worth the inconvenience of trying to adapt to something new where you won't know how to do all the things you normally do. imo, the biggest revolution we can embrace is leaving behind a flat desktop for a 3D volume. this would be ideal for VR but would still be useful for monitors where you can rotate around with keyboard controls like you're playing DESCENT or something and have the ability to place windows/apps all over your volume. they don't all have to be active. you could totally freeze non-active apps. but still, your workspace can be a 3D bubble and you can develop "muscle memory" for where all your apps are. the OS related functions ala a start menu could also be embedded in a 3D "HUD" that could be toggled on and off and overlay your look into your 3D volume. even VR doesn't go this far. all windows are usually embedded in a monitor like strip in the middle of the space like they're still stick on monitors when they don't have to be.

I appreciate the earnestness on display here. Personally, I'm ready to just work with plain text in terminal emulators.

" Core apps should be named with their main function" For something like a file manager or a settings menu that are part of the OS, sure. But not browsers, video and image editors and the like, since people may have several of those installed and use a specific one for different tasks.

Your task workflow reminds me of share functionality in apps, mostly seen on mobile. When browsing I should just be able to "share" or "send to" an image to my image editor.

Why do you think that the workflow of an absolute beginner, who doesn't even understand the differences between file types or the representation of data in a system, is somehow preferable to the workflow of a competent user? The files and applications associated with processes may not be the best match for the physical reality of a computer, but it is much clearer than the simple black box with a query string that your concept is ultimately reduced to.

I am a multitasker, I usually have at least 2 things going at once or more that I like to see at the same time. I have to admit that I like being able to size and position things where I want them. The single app design if I remember correctly is similar to what Microsoft did with Metro in windows 8. I hated it, it's 1 of the main reasons why I never left windows 7 and ultimately went to Linux. I like being able to use the computer how ever i prefer. A single window or many windows taking up positions on the screen. However for single focus workstations or few but related task workstations, it those cases I think what you are saying could work and would probably be good and efficient. I think it would be good if a Linux developer or team would make something like you are describing. I think it could be very beneficial. Such as for companies with defined use cases. Any way that's my two cents. I enjoy your conversation regardless, it good to think about things and try and come up with better ways of doing things. I very much enjoy your content.

wow. the desktop metaphor is to me like the paper clip: it's done. unless the hardware changes (we stop interacting with computers using 2D screens, keyboards and mice), the desktop metaphor, with its buttons, menus etc., is as good as it gets. not the windows/KDE style, though, the GNOME style.

I've always liked the "MS-DOS" Design. I even use Telegram CLI instead of Telegram Desktop. But Steam for example doesn't work that well... to be exact: at all on a Terminal, since Steam uses a GUI.

Dear LinuxEXP, I'm a self taught Linux developer and computer consultant since 1983. In my opinion, the Cinnamon desktop on LMC (Linux Mint Cinnamon) is better than Windows 7, and I think Windows 7 was the best version that M$ ever released. After listening to your ideas, I think that while it might be possible to go your "route", it would also require first inventing an ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence) computer that could handle all of the actual coding on its own. (BTW, I think this could happen at literally ANY moment). But the remaining question is "should" we go your "route" with the OS? I'm voting no. Arthur

Nick, my man, this sounds like you want Gnome with even more stuff that makes people angry. No desktop icons, a roided up ai launcher as our main interface, minimal title bars and menus and an intelligent tiling manager that resizes windows as needed. Would. Next question.

My thoughts on the topic. I don't think redesigning for a broad audience is a good idea. Rather, desktop environments should be custom-oriented first, so it could be set up for specific workflow/needs. For now, no desktop environment provides a wide variety of customizations (apart from Wayland-based, perhaps, but the user should be technically prepared in order to customize). The main idea of a design for a broad audience is familiarity, but the wrong type of it. It is made under certain vision, which encloses the user in a particular box of needs and convenience. That said, we, as a community, should push for fully accessible and understandable (!) ways to customize every little detail about the desktop environment. It is neither too hard to design a solution nor to distribute the knowledge about it. Just make sure the documentation is "stupid-person-readable."

i kinda like this file based workflow, although it would be kinda complicated how developers would build their applications into something like this, and no existing apps would work well with it. Actually applications might still be necessary in this for things other than working with files like games, chatting apps etc. Those would probably work simmilar to a canvas in this case. There should also probably be the ability to have diffrent workspaces with diffrent canvases in them, cus you wouldn't want to close things just to get to something else. There is also the issue of having two things going on at one workspace and the tools around them. Would the tools change depending on what's focused? Or would they just overlap? There is a lot of technicalities to be considered

6:00 Not so. I can type the word "text" to bring up text editors in Linux Mint. Same with "image". I get apps pertaining to image manipulation/viewing/editing.

I always end up replacing frequently used graphical interface jobs to either doing them from terminal or assigning shortcuts to them.

There is a thing called CHOICES, you can't force people to use what you want if there has been a setup for 30+ years allowing people to customize it as they want. Some people have dozens of stuff on the Desktop and HATE widgets, some have only the basic stuff and few Links to Apps (or folders) they use constantly, others have Panels for that sort of stuff. Not everyone uses the same configurations, heck even I like to have on Windows the stuff in Desktop mainly, then on PopOS I use the Launcher and the Lateral Panel, but in OpenSuse I only use the Start Menu and Favourites and some Widgets. Heck even Android has the same options, most people put what they want on the screen even when some of that stuff is only 1 slide or click away from other place (drop menu, full apps library, etc) and some have dozens of widgets while many have none and few even change things like the launcher menu or the virtual keyboard.

I don't agree with many of your criticisms of the desktop format, but I do like seeing different UI styles (Sugar, Starcel, etc). I quite like your workflow/canvas idea.

the system tray should just be for quick setting shortcuts again. i don't mind a vpn or av there but several programs use it the same way as the taskbar is intended to be used. if it's an app that you can't really directly interact with only via settings the system tray is the right place for it, everything else running in the background should be on the taskbar.

I think that Linux UIs are improving greatly and at breakneck pace. I use Windows 11 on my work issued computer and Linux at home and the difference is massive. The KDE Plasma 6 work flow is vastly superior to the Windows work flow.

The reason why we mostly stuck with what we have is because "normal" people (as in the average person using a computer) can either related to it (either from prior knowledge or from something we "evolved" to do, or something close to it) or because it's easily findable/one can easily figure out how to use it. If these things aren't met in one form or the other (and that's not even IT related) people struggle with it until they got used to it, but that goes for every person individually. Btw, that's also why people struggle to create an intuitive UI for VR/AR. We don't really have something we can relate to it (although this could change in the future when the device can figure out how one touches things and you don't need a controller anymore because of it).

04:33 Launchers, app grids and start menus I like how win 10 start screen made. It is a "favourite" section with ability to group apps as you like. Wish this could be possible in Linux (((

@Juxtopposed 6:53 seems like a good challenge for you, reimagine the desktop experience

Screens get bigger and ever higher resolution while our desktops/apps/and guis become ever more sparser, filled with emptiness everywhere. WTH?! I got this machine to do work with, not to look at empty space. It's not an art piece, it's a tool.

In a way, you can "blame" Apple/ Xerox and Microsoft for it. As Macintosh was the first of its kind - the mouse+Keyboard+GUI, it mostly was also responsible for the current state of things. Moreover, the 90s where the battleground between Apple and Microsoft for it (I'm overlooking IBMs OS, since it was the basis for Microsoft's Windows).

Ah, you were describing components for a while there in your "tasks" bit. All the big players have tried this, but it's never really caught on. IIRC the issue is always that it's hard to make components that actually work well together, and it makes document compatibility really hard. Each document almost ends up being it's own application with it's own dependencies and inherits all the problems with that. It seems like applications as we know them are sort of a local maximum. There's a lot of nearby ideas that seem awfully neat, but run into practicality problems when used or developed by humans.

I remember being so excited about the unity's HUD. Everyone seems to like it but after so many years, no one has given us anything alike. Why is that?

7:00 This sounds a lot like Unity. In fact, this sounds a lot like the Unity-like UX I have for my Plasma setup, where I set where everything is the 2x2 workspace grid via KWin and otherwise everything is fullscreened and using Global Menu on top panel if it can. Regardless, ultimately, people just want what's familiar to them. It's a PC/laptop. It should behave like one. The industry standards like Photoshop and MS Office stuck around at least partly because people are familiar with it and there's no 1-to-1 replacement to it. So they'd rather stick around than relearn stuff too many stuff. Honestly, redesigning the desktop sounds like how you'd get Windows 8 again. Or basically Android on PC.

Good idea, I had the same idea recently. I thought of it as the end of all applications. One app to rule them all, some things are already like that namely game engines.

I'm sure I'm going to get plenty flak for this, but in terms of UI, do you want to know what OS came the closest to perfecting the desktop experience in a new and more useful way? Windows 8. I'm 100% serious. The Start Page and live tiles were a brilliant idea. The lack of an obvious desktop was ahead of its time. All Microsoft had to do was add a taskbar that fit the Metro theme and it would have been just fine. And eventually, they did that with 8.1, but by then it was too late. And neither 8 nor 8.1 were by any means perfect, but if they had spent a little more time getting it right the first time, I think it would have been a good start.

I think every top menu should have a search bar so if you know the name of the menu item you're looking for you can just type it instead of menu-diving for it. Macos is actually really good at this. One of a select few things I like about Mac. 😂

Thinking about what I want to use my computer for when producing something (as opposed to gameplay). I think I need to be able to research (when I am short of info) Make notes, and assemble the final product. Having done that I need to deliver it. So I could love an interface that lets me do this. I could even envisage creating one given how most applications these days have a rich REST API to feed into my workspace. HOWEVER, this is a very opinionated workflow. It would suit me, but I can imagine ( or rather I cannot imagine ) how difficult it might make things for other people.

Every time someone rants about "the desktop sucks" and proposes a replacement, that idea never sucks less in some way. The desktop persists because no better general purpose solution has been devised. Every alleged "better" alternative is just a highly opinionated spin on the desktop. Mobile OSes built around "apps" just traded local files for URIs.... Cloud lock-in.

Even before I start watching, Please someone make a menu app standard that separates "looks" from "function", allow ppl to customized everything on the screen, when it comes to menus. Still, that means designers can't abused the user attention, can't force a user to see a menu option. And the powers of "sales" will never let go of that power. sorry.

think about it. when a paradigm has that much staying power, there is a reason.

The fact that GIMP literally stands for "GNU Image Manipulation Program"

What is the mac os blurred theme that was shown with yellow background.

This reminds me of GNOME's use of CORBA, Apple's OpenDoc, MS's OLE, etc.

My man's about to start the Linickx project

I kind of agree with the video. Everything is OK, but it's really hard to make something totally different and new. I felt kind of OK with Unity ten years ago since I had HUD and the main menu that would separate music, documents and pictures, but it didn't go further. I'd really like a new real OS with a real modern DE that would let me do productive things without installing stuff, saving files and organizing that much. ChromeOS almost gets it, and yet it's still a lot of apps. Make something 200% coherent and I'll be happier.

I've been thinking for years about abolishing the desktop/office metaphor. NO icons, no windows, no dialog boxes, the entire background should be a terminal, etc. And it's 3D! No apps! Totally file-centric. All underlying program engines can work together on a file. The computer will ask you what you want to do and implement it. You basically have my ideas from about 15 years ago. May I send you a ,txt file?

the "workflow" idea you described was the Apple OpenDoc design (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDoc) which was then reimplemented as KDE "parts" (i think on 4). Konqueror wasn't a "file browser + web browser", it was a "part container" and there were parts for browsing files, for previewing, for web (the famous KHTML). it also embedded KTextPart, which is the same both Kate and KWrite use. (in konqueror it's called "embedded advanced text editor"). if developers just wrote new KParts instead of more applications, then the "workflow" idea would be just Konqueror + Kate (+ git, maybe?)

Reject desktop icons, return to 50+ preconfigured physical buttons

Scott Ross from Accursed Farms has made this before under "The GUI should be better. A lot better." I highly recommend giving it a watch

And you didn't even mention TABS... Oh, tabs are a nightmare! I really don't get how tabs help in all this mess. I really wish they didn't exist!

07:47 Well, that starts to sound a lot like NextStep and its services. They came up with that idea in the 1980s. More or less. Every time I watch that NextStep presentation by Steve Jobs i get that dreaded feeling that software development is going backwards, you know, devolution.

I dind't think anyone actually mouses through menus anymore, seeing that you can just type 2-3 characters and launch the program or open the file you want in almost every OS.

In some ways I think the iPad is still trying to head towards part of this vision, and the problems that a lot of reviewers keep highlighting with the iPad are due to trying to make the iPad work with other traditional systems.

that was a linus tech tips level of segway to your sponsor

I would be satisfied if we could have feature flags for each “thing” Eg configurable (cough cough gnome). Information hiding is as important as the information. / options shown

You're right. The desktop metaphor is terrible. Let's all install Microsoft Bob! Now *there* was a winner! :) Joking aside, nobody thinks about the desktop metaphor literally anymore. Almost no one in the work force today as working when it was first released commercially-- it's always been computer terminology to them. There have been many alternatives over the years. They usually fail because they're too busy. Most people get overwhelmed by busy interfaces.

Honestly at first I thought this video was going to be about how NAMING the UI elements after office and desk stuff is bad, not the elements themselves. Video is still obviously good though. Would love to see more of this kind of stuff.

The video I saw so far: 1) Desktop paradigm sucks!! Alternatives? None, we're stuck with the desktop and windows. 2) Apps/softwares paradigm sucks!! Alterntive? Have system call out small blocks of code for every feature as needed (i.e. apps or widgets!) 3) System tray sucks!! Alternatives? Nothing good, we need system tray. GNOME quick settings can take its place one day, but then it will get bloated after you install a few softwares/extensions. ... Pretty good video to jostle people's minds, but has little to do with actual solutions.

Sounds like turning the OS into an Anythpe / Obsidian / Notion paradigm

If I understand your video right, you'd like to turn a whole workflow into a logseq caneva? Also, with this all-in-one-place philosophy, isn't there a rism to lock computers into an even darker black box? In other words, wouldn't that make computers and digital tools even more difficult to understand for people, turning them even more into some sort of magic objects, that only a few initiates can figure out?

Yes but. Thumb sticks. Make everything 360 radial menu and you can use your gamepad for everything.

Nice ideas - however I think it’s just a leap too far for most people. Personally have been using the Pop-OS COSMIC pre-alpha and it’s as close to a perfect workflow for me that I can find. Like the thought experiment vids - maybe do some more if they’re popular?

I just want wifi that doesn't throw limited connectivity errors when I turn on my VPN. Or a way to update my xbox controller firmware in linux so that it works in linux; The factory firmware freaks out linux Bluetooth. A working fingerprint reader would be cool too. Linux is great when I'm in developer mode, but the other little things add up.

12:33 this is what Raycast/Alfred already do to some extend on macOS

Congratulations, you discovered emacs at 6:47