Mers-el-Kebir - Tragedy on a Grand Scale 

Pinned post for Q&A :)

"Armed with nothing but a cake and 27 candles." Awh. 😞

I guess if Admiral Gensoul felt a mere Captain was of an inferior rank and insulting to him he must have considered a 15" shell to be equal in rank to himself and worthy of a personal meeting with himself.

The way I read him, Admiral Gensoul was an aristocrat, probably making his rank via political appointment rather than merit and achievement. The fact he never spoke on the matter post war up until his death though, makes me wonder if he truly grasped the enormity his own errors.

Fadm Chester Nimitz was once asked by one of his staff officers "Why do you have a photo of Douglas MacArthur in such a prominent place?" The Answer - "To remind me not to be a Horses Ass." Gensoul could have taken that to heart.

Imagine celebrating your birthday with sind french officers and then getting the order to blow up the guys who just gifted you a nice cake.

In his book “The Second World War: Their Finest Hour” Winston Churchill indulged in a bit of “what if”: How vain are human calculations of self-interest! Rarely has there been a more convincing example. Admiral Darlan had but to sail in any one of his ships to any port outside France to become the master of all French interest beyond German control. He would not have come like General de Gaulle with only an unconquerable heart and a few kindred spirits. He would have carried with him outside the German reach the fourth Navy in the world, whose officers and men were personally devoted to him. Acting thus, Darlan would have become the chief of the French Resistance with a mighty weapon in his hand. British and American dockyards and arsenals would have been at his disposal for the maintenance of his fleet. The French gold reserve in the United States would have assured him, once recognised, of ample resource. The whole French Empire would have rallied to him. Nothing could have prevented him from being the Liberator of France. The fame and power which he so ardently desired were in his grasp. Instead, he went forward through two years of worrying and ignominious office to a violent death, a dishonoured grave, and a name long to be execrated by the French Navy and the nation he had hitherto served so well.

@12:10 "And pray they don't alter it any further". Love this slipped in Empire Strikes Back reference!

I would have thought sailing to a French colony in the West Indies would have been the one leaving the most possibilities for them..

36:05 "The British were coming" given the naval history between the British and the French. That's not exactly the kinda of news a French Admiral wants to hear.

There exists a lesser known communique attributed to Admiral Gensoul which may shed some light on why the British attacked, it reads as follows: "Your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries". I'll get my coat...👍

Many point to the fact that the French eventually scuttled ships, but to me, this just highlights the waist of life brought on by the admiral in charge of the French fleet.

even with all the history between Great Britain and France, this was still heart breaking to listen to. Nothing would have made me more proud as a Brit than to have heard a new twist to the battle of the denmark straights, of Hood, Prince of Wales and french battleships working together to sink bismark. 🇬🇧🇨🇵 God bless all involved in this tragedy.

A nice touch at the end to give a few moments silence to honour the loss of the sailors.

As a Frenchman, I really appreciate the effort you gave into thorough researching for this episode. I entirely agree with your perception of the event. Even though the British had breached some articles of neutrality when firing upon the French vessels, it was vital for this French fleet to be put out of action so long as its loyalty to the Allies was in doubt. Failure to have done so could have had very dramatic results on the war as a whole, not just the Med theatre. I cannot bring myself to blame the British for this, as belligerent Churchill was, since if they had not done it the Allies could have lost the Med, leading to the potential fall of Egypt, allowing the Axis to seize the Middle East, and then I will let you imagine what would be the end result... Gensoul and Vichy are the culprits of this tragedy. Vichy first because they are traitors, flat out traitors. There is a reason why 1940 to 1944 are regarded as the darkest years in all of French history, not because of the military defeat but because of the collaboration regime. Had these nazi sympathisers not been put in power following the debacle of 1940, and real French patriots kept control of the military, the entire French fleet would have carried on the fight alongside the British just as it had done up to that point. As to Gensoul, not only did he fail his men and let them die in the worst circumstances possible, at the hand of their allies, but his refusal to join forces with the British in by itself shows that Gensoul was willing to collaborate with Vichy/the enemy and lay down his arms and worse, perhaps fight against the Allies. Even still, he could have simply sailed to Fort-de-France and regrouped with the rest of the demobilised fleet. No deaths, no breach of orders. But no, that would have to sensible! Mers-el-Kébir is also the perfect representation of why Britain always had an edge on France and why it was more successful. In military terms, the quality of British equipment was never excellent, almost always inferior when compared to French equipment. Be it in gunsmithery (beginning in the musket era, France had tougher musket designs and overall established itself as a nation of excellent gunsmiths even until today), troop quality (Britain was the last major European military to finally adopt a professional army while France had a long history of having a well-trained standing army), and in ship design (yes, as much as it seems incredible, French ship designs, starting in the 18th century, were regarded as among the best in Europe very close to that of the Dutch. And guess who thought that too. The Royal Navy itself! Read about the Commerce-de-Marseille class for example), and in to a lesser extent depending on which field we look at, innovations. France had an edge on Britain in terms of means. BUT! One thing France did/does not have or at least did/does not have consistently throughout history is an effective leadership. Britain always, ALWAYS, had that edge over France. Where France had a single outstanding general, Britain had two. Where France had a single great minister or adviser, Britain had a whole cabinet and a Prime Minister of great cunning. Where France had one successful admiral surrounded by ten incompetent other, Britain had two matchless admirals and countless naval geniuses. France ended up with the best tools, but Britain ended up with the best minds. Look at the Seven Years War, look at the Napoleonic Wars, look at the Invasion of Algeria, look at the intervention in Mexico, look at Franco-Prussian War, look at the Lebel in WWI, look at inter-war France, look at French rifle stocks in 1939, look at WWII, look at Indochina, look at the Algerian War, look at France today. At Mers-el-Kébir, another French incompetent and worthless leader led so many valiant sailors manning some of the better ships of this conflict to their futile deaths while on the other end clear-sighted and thoughtful British commanders had endeavoured whole-heartedly their very best to prevent this tragedy. It has always been so and it will always be so...

Your assessment is spot on, although I would not consider "legality" to carry any weight. Did Hitler consider legality when he ordered German troops into the Rhineland...or invaded Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway...etc? By the time Mers-el-Kebir happened, legality was a sham. At that point, it was all about survival. By issuing the ultimatum, Churchill was fulfilling his obligation to ensure the survival of Britain. Hitler had thrown legality under the bus long before that.

My grand father witnessed it. He was on an ammunition transporter, and the Harbour Captain forbade his ship to remain with the Other ships. He was based outside the harbour and when they saw the Royal Navy coming they just let the Anchor go, and escaped.

Gensoul's performance here reminds me of the quote from Hunt for Red October when the Konovalov's torps homed in onto itself- "You arrogant ass, you've killed us"

Could not agree more. Plenty of blame to go around, but Admiral Gensoul shoulders the most as 1) he was the leader on the spot (the buck stops there), and 2) his conduct in placing his personal pride, with his perceived affront at the rank of the British emissary (and it's not like the British sent a mere lieutenant or some such), above his obligation to his fleet/men is unconscionable and indefensible.

12:03-12:12 A Empire Strikes back reference!? lol " I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." LMAO

A few years ago I investigated this tragedy and have to say that Drachinifel's analysis is absolutely top notch. If only all documentaries were this thorough. Well done. To add, The British got much of their oil from the Persian Gulf and it was shipped through the Suez Canal to the Mediterranean. As Drachinifel pointed out, when Reynaud came to office, one of his first acts was to sign an agreement with Chamberlain that said neither France or Britain would sign an armistice or peace agreement without mutual consent. Churchill agreed to releasing France of this agreement providing either the French fleet either join the British or neutralize their fleet so that the ships could not fall into German hands. So Churchill felt betrayed when he read the terms of the Vichy - German agreement that the French fleet was to return back to ports in France, and be placed under German guard. What Churchill did not know , was that Petain had insisted that the French fleet be disarmed in North Africa. So the bottom line was this , France had the second largest fleet in Europe. So had the French fleet landed in the hands of the Kriegsmarine , the Kriegsmarine and the Italian navy could have cut Britain off much of its oil supply and the war would have been over for Britain. Churchill could not put the fate of Britain into the hands of Darlan's solemn word .

Cunningham managed to talk the French admiral in Alexandria into giving up his ships peacefully, and he was pretty annoyed at the pressure Churchill laid on to open fire.

Thanks for doing this Drachinifel, this is a part of history that never gets taught here stateside.

A comprehensive and insightful look at tragic events. My thoughts on this are more clear with the behind the scenes descriptions that you have related. Fascinating video. My thanks!👏🤨

I have seen several docs about this event and this vid is easily the best. From the info, to the personal view really comes together quite well! Great job

If that isn't the sum of the French military in 1940- brave men, brave and competent junior and field grade officers Colonel and below- lead by incompetent, arrogant and/or lazy General and Flag grade officers- seems to be a carryover from WW1 - weather they tried to or not.

Churchill could not trust Britain's future to the promises of one French Admiral no matter how good that person's intentions.

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to this very concise take on this tragic event. It deserves to be seen many more people. Thank You

Interesting that Admiral Gensoul apparently never talked about it, even though he lived another 30+ years. Are there any contemporaneous French records available?

Man, should have called this one as follows: “Mers-el-Kebir: When Leadership Fails” Anyhow, great episode.

These early days of WW2 don't get enough attention. They didn't have the pitched battles of the later days, but my goodness, the uncertainty, terror, and betrayal is enough to cause nightmares.

That was in my opinion a very well reasoned and explained story of the events. Thank you!

"....pray they don't alter it any further..." Only a fool trusted Darth Schickelgruber twice

This is my favorite 'weird war tale' of ww2. Your voice is perfect for this stuff. Great job with everything.

Gensoul sounds like, as they say, "le huge prick"

Drach : you’re using Darlan’s photograph for Gensoul.

Thank you for this episode and the research to highlight all the events behind the Mers El Kbir incident. I never knew about the sailing of the French fleet to the U.S. was in the orders from the Vichy Government, that really changes in my eye how we Brits played it.

There is another factor that Drachinfel missed that I believe is important to think about. At this point in time France had been knocked out of the war, and Britain was effectively alone and facing a probably invasion threat ("Operation Sealion"). This was not a time for half-measures; Britain had to show Germany and the rest of the world that it was serious about fighting to the end. Whatever the other facts are about the Mers-el-Kebir attack, the destruction of the French fleet showed everyone that Britain was not going to roll over die, and hence that Germany was not going to gain yet another easy victory. It has been argued that this was one of the factors that convinced Hitler that any invasion attempt was unlikely to succeed, allowing Britain to continue the fight and act as a platform for the final defeat of Germany.

ne thing is for sure : the Dunkerque was a beautiful ship.

The French admiral was guilty of the sin of pride.

Very interesting breakdown and analysis. I learned a lot new about the Mers-el-Kebir incident here. Excellent video, Drachinifel.

Gensoul was clearly in the wrong refusing to talk to a captain, but on the second attempt where he actually met Holland they probably should have actually sent Somerville along side Holland in an attempt to appease the bastard. If he’s such an egomaniac maybe Somerville showing up would have buttered him up.

What odd here is that both sides had a willingness to allow the ships to go to the USA. Since the US was still essentially neutral, they could've sent over an escort for the ships to return to America and nobody would've bothered them. Germany would've grumbled but they certainly wouldn't have opened up on an American fleet at this point in the conflict since bringing the US into the war almost 18 months earlier than they actually entered the conflict would've been disastrous to the Axis. So really, the whole conflict comes down to the British fear driving them to a rapid resolution, and the French taking a too 'laissez-faire' approach to something so crucial to the situation. Had both sides actually negotiated at the Admiral to Admiral level to start with, even with guns levelled at each other, they could've probably come across the American solution at the same point, kept it quiet and had the US intervene to help out, thus the only potential win-win in the whole mess. Instead, we got tragedy all the way around and 80 years later... still anger and hatred. Again, the human factor driving unnecessary loss.

I like the Star Wars reference he worked in there.

That moment of silence at end... It really touched a cord. What a gentleman Drachinifel

It wasn't mentioned or isn't much acknowledged but the attack also cemented other Allied and neutral opinions (especially the USA) that the UK was going to continue fighting the war in mid-1940.

Thank you Drachinifel. It is excellent explanation of this historical episode. Excellent analysis.

Thank you for this in depth look at one of the lesser known episodes in naval history. One is forced to wonder how many of these there are, most glossed over because of history tending to focus on major events and even that interpretation having inaccuracies and misconceptions in various places. And some tragedies we’ll never even know about, mainly because most if not all of the individuals involved did not survive the incident.

thank you for making this video. I had seen other videos on this unfortunate situation, but none contained the detail you provided. As you say, it is easy to look back now and judge, but at the time I can only imagine the angst the British naval leadership had to endure regarding a decision like this.

I'm an American so take this as you will but as I look back at history there seems to be a lot of miscommunication where the French are involved. I suspect there are subtleties of their culture that we still don't understand. Seemingly inexplicable decisions made time and again. Rather interesting.

Absolutely fantastic video Drach....one of your best ever. Regardless of the legality of the attack. It deeply bothers me the lack of effort by the French Navy to seek shelter in British ports to continue the fight. The tiny Navies of Greece, Poland, Norway and others did their dead level best to get to safety and fight on. Sometimes even defying orders from high command. In the book "No greater ally" the author lays heavy charges of downright hostility against the Poles from the French. He also says that many French troops were openly friendly with the Germans. Lastly he says how the French Navy and army did all they could to prevent an evacuation of Polish troops from France. Many many French servicemen and civilians fought bravely in the war, but many many others, especially in the beginning seemed to be dead set on capitulation and surrender.

An enthralling education.... feels like I was there. To err is human... so many lives at the mercy of I'll thought decisions.... truly the tragedy of war, thanks mate

The best analysis of the situation I have ever seen. The sad thing is indeed the tragedy of war in that people die for various reasons and those that fail to justify their deaths and those that try to.

This is one of your finest videos. Thankyou for doing it, it is admirable the effort you put in to make sure that fact is the basis for logic. It is such a tragedy which us Brits aren't proud of and for that reason aren't taught about, when it is exactly these type of lessons which everyone needs to be aware of to learn from.

Fine work, Drach, as always. This one was exquisite. ".....and that is the ultimate tragedy of war."

You didn't think through the fact that a fleet/Task Force would be permanently tied up just blockading the port..... shades of Napoleonic lessons that the Navy remembered.

I thought I knew a lot about this attack & many of the other great vids, boy you been doing some research/reading sir! Very well done & absorbing content. Ty

Thank you once again for fantastic content. Your channel has become by far my absolute most watched on RU-vid! I have a 45 minute drive to and from work each day and your Drydock videos are all i listen to. I'm up to episode 49. Yours is the most technically competent and interesting channel I know of. Keep up the work!

I had expected this video to start with Copenhagen, back then England also refused the existence of an uncommitted possibly competive fleet, there is nothing new aboukt Mers-El-Kebir, other than that the french navy hadn't read the naval historybooks, if they had, they had been much more aware of the danger, they were in.

God, now I'm super bummed out. But thank you for that. This was a skillful and obviously well researched retelling and analysis of war history that did not seek to glorify combat. In fact, the editorial thesis placed a premium on avoiding bloodshed and not treating exchange of fire as inevitable. I wish more war historians took this approach with their recounting of historical events.

“Altering the deal, and pray I don’t alter it any further”...nice! Good use of a line from that other historical documentary

Sir, Your video documentary is spot on. The reasoning, documentation and analysis was refreshing to view here on youtube. I give you a 15 on a scale of 1-10 !! A very Great contribution to history you have provided here. Thank You

It’s interesting that no one that I can see has brought up Churchill’s thought on Oran/Mers-El-Kebir. He considered that it drove home to Roosevelt that the British were deadly serious about continuing to fight on despite facing the German juggernaut alone (except for the dominions) at that point. Cheers!

I don’t see the controversy. The Poles refused to surrender in any official capacity, evacuated their Navy and fought on with the Allies until Germany's surrender. The French created a collaborationist regime instead of evacuating their naval assets. They were fair game however slight the possibility of their ships ending up in German hands.

Thank you Drach, I've been waiting for a detailed account of this event for a very long time.

Very fine analysis, Drach. I've never heard such an in depth and clear study of this horrible tragedy. Thank you!

A VERY WELL ARGUED CASE… VERY COMPELLINGLY & COGENTLY EXPLAINED… And your conclusion regarding where the blame must principally lie for this eminently avoidable tragedy, is one which - in my humble opinion - is the only one that the known facts leading up to it, emphatically support.

Your analysis,& judgments are spot on...I agree 100%.

Gensoul witheld the most viable option of sailing for the French west indes. He effectively lied and bears most responsibility for the outcome. The French needed to keep their fleet intact without handing it over to the axis. The fleet was virtually the last bargaining chip that the French had. The threat of handing these ships over to the British was sufficient to keep the Germans out of the South of France. Relocating to the French West indes could have kept the ships out of both British and German hands.

The passion you bring for your condemnation upon Admiral Gensoul is a thing of beauty to hear.

Excellent and clear analysis of this tragic action which corresponds closely with the account in a book by Warren Tute given me by a half-French journalist friend decades ago. France and its fighting men were amazingly badly served by their most senior officers: Gamelin and Waygand stumbling around in the Battle of France, and Gensoul´s arrogance and utter stupidy at Mers el Kebir

One must never forget the fact Darlan had, even pre-war, always taken care of his own self promotion and preservation regardless of everything and everyone. Even at the expense of his own service branch and country. The man never stopped playing his own game, to the bitter end.

The French admiral displayed much of the same class distinction & haughtiness that resulted in WW1 and the deaths of MILLIONS. Tactically, the French admiral should have recognized that a fleet that is moored in the harbor is almost defenseless against a fleet with the maneuverability, armament & positioning of the British. As for this and MANY arguments of historians today? They fail to recognize the minutia of international law, custom & what is "cricket" DISAPPEAR when bullets start flying...especially 15 inch rounds weighing over a ton!

Where French High Command's legendary incompetence after WW1, National Pride, and miscommunication struck home. Somerville still had a good reputation still after this incident in the Royal Navy, so at the very least I'm happy about that.

Excellent exposition of events and detailed information!

Very well done work on such a charged issue.

Great and interesting piece, Drach. Lots of moral and legal gray area in this one. Had I ben in the shoes of the british government at this point, I would probably have done the same. For britian the stakes were simply too high to take the risk. They were allready overstreched and a substantial increase of enemy heavy naval units in the mediterranean sea could easily have spelled doom for all the british forces in the area and the middle east. And with the oil fields there falling into german hands, who knows what would have happend... And, I agree that Admiral Gensoul would have ben hard-pressed to find a way to handle the situation any worse then he did.

This extended analysis of Gensoul is backed by a picture of Darlan.

Best explanation of how this incident turned from allies to mutual distrust, to what appears to be a mix of ego and arrogance leading to death and destruction. Moving the fleet to the Caribbean would appear to have been both the smartest & easiest solution.

Thank you for all your hard work!

My father was there serving as the CEPO on board the cruiser, HMS Naiad. His previous ship HMS Ajax was also there. He discussed this action with me two or three times and was always of the opinion that the fleet had sailed there to negotiate and when that failed they had no option outside taking the action they did. He regretted the loss of life but was pleased not to have had to fight the French vessels later on. As his time in the Med was already hard enough; Battle of Crete, convoy protection etc. before eventually being torpedoed and spending a number of hours in the water, it is no wonder that he and the majority of his comrades supported the British fleet erring on the side of caution. Regards

Excellent analysis, I still side with the British on the decision to open fire on the French fleet. That French admiral was such a jerk to be offended at the particular rank of the messenger. To me, by the summer of 1940, one was no longer in a position to justify taking Hitler's Germany at their word, whether on or off a signed document. The whole tension buildup leading to the war was built upon Hitler breaking promises. As far as I am concerned, from the contemporary perspective, that French Fleet was a threat. I believe that the French Fleet in North Africa should have said "To Hell with the Vichy Govt, we will continue to fight!".

Thanks for doing the deep dive on the history.

That was seriously interesting. Great doco mate. I agree entirely with your take on the bottom line, as far as responsibility is concerned. Yet another example from history, of ego causing disaster.

The French admiral couldn't have been that....oh...oh dear

well... can also look at this in the light of what happened latter, in Toulon, when the French navy scuttled itself in order to not fall in German hands when they invaded the free zone...

A very well researched and laid out of what happened. It is a shame that as usual someone’s ‘personal’ honor out weighed the best interest of his men. Unfortunately most interactions between men at war goes this way. Bless the French men who died and hope that they for gave their admiral’s incompetence. May future commanders read and learn from this.

A very thought-provoking and well-presented analysis. Having examined quite a few sources in this matter, I agree that the tragedy hinged on the negotiations around Admiral Gensoul and his reactions to the situation. IMHO, I believe that Gensoul was motivated by a combination of arrogance and wounded pride that led him to respond as he did. Let's face it, France had lost in a humiliating way to Germany, so national pride was wounded and doubtlessly his too, then the dreaded British turn up wanting to take his fleet out of his control and worst of all, sending a mere captain to negotiate with him! The fact that he rejected Captain Holland immediately and out of hand, refusing to accept any explanation as to Holland's role, speaks volumes for Gensoul's state of mind. One thing that might have helped would have been for Admiral Somerville to meet personally with Gensoul and have Holland act as his interpreter - and I'm not sure why this was not actioned... Still, the fact that Gensoul was so duplicitous with his own government in providing an inaccurate sitrep and options presented to him, seems to indicate that he wanted to manipulate the situation to support his own personal agenda.

156k views on such a minor topic, youtube crowd really is knowledge hungry seekers of truth. And lets not forget the wonderful content providers for creating videos like these for us.

Drachinifel, where the damnable decisions of an unworthy officer doomed 1300 of his men, your thorough, thoughtful analysis brings honor to their sacrifice for a new generation. This was a masterful video. More than explaining a moment in the past, you have given a lesson and a warning to leaders from men who no longer could. Bravo Zulu.

The germans used several of the big ship guns they got hold on from the french navy and some of them ended up in Denmark and apparently never was used , lots of pictures of them in the danish archives from the german occupation during world war 2

Uncle Drach, this one always makes me tear up. :(

I found the Admiralty's ultimatum quite reasonable. It's clear to me that the French admiral Gensoul screwed himself and his fleet. The fault for this entire misadventure rests on him

Hindsight is 20-20 is and old saying but I say unto you that hindsight is often as bad as foresight. We aren't going to know what the outcomes of many of those alternative choices would have been.

Excellent video, Drach. Your every point mirrors my own sentiments exactly. Gensoul screwed it up in every way possible for wholly contemptible reasons. He proved himself a perfect jackass throughout the entire affair. As for Darlan, you nearly capture verbatim what I've said for years on the matter; namely that he squandered everything, including his own legacy, in attempting to keep a promise to a madman infamous for not keeping his own promises to anyone. Every French ship with a wet hull should have rallied to an allied or neutral but sympathetic port at the first opportunity. Hitler's notion of not seizing the French vessels wouldn't have survived the end of the year, and AT BEST would have been reversed immediately upon the American entry into the conflict, and only a small miracle would have bought that much time. A combination of complacency, bad intelligence, and just plain thick-headedness seemed to doom everything France and its hamfisted leaders attempted from the outbreak in September of 39' on through the end of 1941, and it would be for Britain and the US to clean up the mess, pick up the pieces, and reassemble the proverbial Humpty Dumpty of French national viability before any hope of continental liberation could be dreamed of, let alone achieved. And even then, De Gaulle's ego, pride, and arrogance did its best to rankle the other Allied brass all the way up to VE-Day and beyond. While I'll readily admit that his symbolic importance to the fighting spirit of the French resistance was invaluable, to Allied leadership he was often more of an overdressed, strutting peacock that needed cajoling into effective action, or at least out of everyone's way, than he was a useful and agreeable partner with more to bring to the table than bravado and the ear, hearts, and minds of France's beleaguered partisans. Basically, a necessary decorative fixture fueled by the same brand of flattery that Gensoul was expecting before finding his fleet shot out from under him. I've heard it said that Gensoul shares blame with Churchill's need to convince Roosevelt of Britain's determination to see the war through till the end, but Churchill had it right. Without the confidence of American backing there was no version of events that would ever see Allied boots walking the continent again, and Churchill should be credited for that foresight, not blamed.

An excellent coverage and analysis of the entire Mers el Kabir incident. My reading is that the British simply could not take the chance of a combined Italian and French fleet in control of the Mediterranean. Gensoul clearly bears most of the responsibility here, imo. As a high level Admiral he should have seen the importance to the British, realize how serious the situation was, and tried to work with them....he did not at all.

Had to listen to this twice to make sure I understood Drach's viewpoint. I've struggled to find the rationale behind the FN decisions that led up to this, Whitehall and the Admiralty had drawn some very obvious and clear lines in the sand, the least of which for the FN was just to leave the Med or any other Theatre of War and retire to maybe a French holding in the Caribbean and sit the War out. I know you try and avoid the more recent conflicts but this was one of the best bits of research I've come across regarding the events, Anglo phobia was not restricted to King then.

Oh God I can't take this anymore. First Jingles has a 40min video. Then I go to get fish and chips (they were very nice). I comeback to find the history guy has uploaded a video (which was excellent) and, now I find this video which I'm sure will be brilliant. Thanks Drachinifel!

This is even more tragic when you know that when they heard the RN was on its way, French sailors cheered as they thought the Brits were coming to "pick them up" and continue the fight...

On business in Oran in 1982, I made a special detour to have a look at what is left of the French naval base at Mers el Kebir - not much, I have to say. But enough to envisage the tragic events of 1940. My interest originated with a comment made by a French student in a language class some years earlier - 'The French can never forgive the English for 3 things : Joan of Arc, the Fashoda Incident, and Mers el Kebir' ! All that said, I have to point out that the picture systematically shown as Admiral Gensoul is, in fact, another photograph of Admiral Darlan. A quick check on Google will easily turn up a picture of Gensoul himself. Also, while Darlan, whatever you think of his behaviour during the Vichy period, was unfortunate enough to be assassinated in 1942, Gensoul was lucky enough to live until 1973, dying at the ripe old age of 93, unlike many hundreds of the men he was responsible for !