Easily the best walk-through I've seen of the meticulous yet. I really enjoy your focus on UX in your reviews and a machine like this is all about user experience. Also the first time I've realized the interface is via webapp vs native app. Not sure how I feel about that, but based on having to connect to camera wifi to download photos, I feel like it'd be a little bit annoying of a process.
Quick info from the just dropped update in KS: They will offer a kind of backer guarantee where the pledge will be collected on the due date but you can get the funds back until the point where the addresses are fixed before delivery. Nice move to counter the people on the fence with crowdfunding and just plain very fair!
This is a recent marketing strategy by companies that are going for big pre-sale orders. The electric car company world popularized this so they could talk about having _"200,000 pre-order reservations!"_ despite those reservations being super small deposits and fully refundable. The algorithms, blogs, and RU-vid reviewer counts jump the more impressive your Kickstarter pre-order numbers are.
@@luke9822 that may be true, yet this info came I think 2ish days (?) before the end of the campaign and is not something you typically see in kickstarters. So probably 95% of all backers backed the project without knowing this addition was on the horizon which I think makes this a very fair move (as stated above).
THINGS WE MISSED: 1. We'd love to see manual control over how far the piston is raised before pulling a shot, similar to what you can do with the Flair. That way one can use just enough water to pull the shot and not have to purge and waste too much. CLARIFICATIONS: 1. You can currently create simple presets on the device itself, it’s the more complex ones that require the web app. 2. This one’s obvious but we should have mentioned it, this machine can’t steam milk and you’ll have to spend an additional $250 on the Meticulous Milk or find some other solution for milk drinks.
Meticulous already sent an update to say if the campaign ends and you’re still in, you’ll be able to cancel your order at any time, no questions asked, for a full refund (Kickstarter will have already charged you.) Excellent service on their part, and should inspire confidence in customers.
@@scd6969Which ones haven't made it to to the market? I just received my Timemore Sculpture 64s though the door. This one looks like it's progressing well.
I agree about the stop at weight feature. It is one of the best features of the decent. You can set your brew ratio, leave, and the shot will end itself at the perfect weight.
I've got an ACS Vesuvius, which is a big dual boiler with pressure profiling. I'm mostly using it to pull fairly long, low pressure shots while grinding really fine on a Lagom P64 with SSP Unimodal burrs. Man, that's some sweet, fruity, lovely espresso I'm getting! However, I don't even drink espresso every day any more, I mostly do pour-overs, and having this huge machine on my counter, with its long heating times, just feels like such a waste in many ways. So I've been meaning to change to something smaller and more efficient. My eyes have obviously been on the Decent for a long time, but then this came along and to me, it's a no-brainer. I've backed it.
I’m so glad I found your channel a while ago. Your reviews are always on point and it’s obvious you actually put in the time to understand the product you’re reviewing. Hope your channel grows a lot! Thank you and keep up the great work!
Great content! Would love to see you get your hands on more levers. Stunning lack of londinium R24 content on YT in general and I’d love to see more reviews before making the purchase!
I've seen some advertisements for this machine, and based on their wording, I've been very suspicious of it. It quite literally says, "Perfect espresso with no pump" without actually showing how it works, and the minimalistic look of the machine does not help it at all. Just this quick little introduction at the start of this video took my apprehension and skyrocketed it to excitement.
I was shopping around for E61 groupheads so i could install a flow control kit, looking at heat exchangers dual boilers, etc, and realized that I'd end up paying more for any of those than i would for this, and they'd most likely be refurb or secondhand. Since I'm just making coffee for myself or a guest at most and dont drink any milk drinks, it just seemed like this is a no-brainer for my use case. At the Kickstarter pricing this is an incredibly compelling value proposition imo
Great video! Super excited to get my hands on this thing! I might be misremembering, but Emilee Bryant mentioned in her video that you’ll be able to make presets just on the machine. Here’s hoping they can implement your manual preset save idea.
@@BensCoffeeRants unfortunately the Decent is as expensive or more than any of the best lever machines which is laughable. Great for the US price but ridiculous for people anywhere else.
I'm not sure why you think the price of the decent is laughable or why you think this is somehow a better machine? For the price, the meticulous seems like a great deal for what it can do, but it still doesn't match the capabilities of the decent and they've learned the hard way that it's expensive to build complicated things.
Great video ! Love your humor, tone, story telling. Lucky for me, I am out of space on my coffee bars, otherwise you’d have me sold ! PS: Emily seems to be hoping in few vids lately. First Lance yesterday and now you 😂
I am usually an early adopter and really want to back this, but I can't help but think I will be kicking myself when V2 is released that works out all of the V1 bugs and feedback. It will of course cost more, however.
Been waiting see more in-depth product video on tnis and damn your video just popped up, as always mix of humor and great focus in delivering all the details. Job well done 👍
Many thanks for the quality rundown of this amazing machine! Kudos to you... There is hardly ever a mention of the quality of shots that the Meticulous can do...and does. What existing machines can produce similar results in the cup? Could you comment on this please?
I backed this the first day kickstarter campaign started. If Carlos can pull this off, and I have strong feeling that he can, this will turn out to be one of the best expresso machine... at any price. Can't wait! , if there are going to be delays just to finalize and make it perfect, I'm ok with that too. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Having the Flair for a couple of years has taught me that experimenting with pressure and flow profiles is not sustainable. I stopped doing that in my normal and not normal routine. Great content by the way.
Yeah, when I got into this hobby I was kind of shocked by how people would casually talk about dumping dozens of "failed" shots down the drain or seasoning their grinders with several kilos of cheap beans before putting in their expensive single origins. Then again those are also usually the people with like $5k+ worth of equipment so maybe that kind of waste just doesn't cross their minds?
The creator has said the screws and stuff should be hidden in the production version. It's also going to be anodized (or was it powder coated?) anyway a higher quality coating than the paint currently on it. The drip tray is supposed to be Metal I believe. 7:38 Question is how does the AutoPurge taste? :D 10:25 It didn't hit 10 seconds or the 0.3g it seems, unless the scale was touched, on my Acaia (this thing actually uses an Acaia scale) it is sensitive so it jumps more than that with a slight movement of the table or breeze so maybe setting to 0.6g is something would be a safer bet. 12:50 They are actually planning on doing that where you can save your manual shot as a profile I believe, so if it turns out GOOD you can repeat it. I don't think it's designed for Temperature profiling, so that's where the Decent machine has an advantage, however I've heard a stable temperature is usually best. It might have a slightly declining temperature as the shot is pulled though, or maybe that could an option in the settings, if the heaters are still active as the shot is pulled they could potentially have an option to turn the heaters off for a more declining profile.
One thing I think you should have at least mentioned is that it doesn't have any steaming capability. Since traditional boiler espresso machines basically universally can steam milk and this one can't, it's worth noting - so adding another device dedicated to steaming milk could be a potential hurdle for users. For what it's worth I backed this a few days after it went live and am planning to get the Meticulous Milk as well.
it's worth nothing? I'd say it's worth at least 50% or 60% or 85%, ... depending on how much emphasis you put on steamed milk. but I get your point. and yes, a good milk steamer is worth a lot. cheers!
A super simple mechanical machine, that can make the most complex espresso profiles.It's just a programable actuator and heating element, with 100's of sensors. I want it
I don't mind the drip tray being plastic. I don't want a heavy metal tray, full of water/drippage, being pulled out of the base, to empty. Ceramic will get broken. Plastic (A good plastic) can last a very long time.
Coffee is my mindfulness routine, so having a lot of the manual bits done for me is not exactly exciting. That being said, this machine is really cool and can really be a game changer for espresso experimentation so I'm definitely really excited for that as well!
Greetings from Mexico! I subscribed so I don’t miss any more Dad jokes 😊 Big pour over fan but so deep in the rabbit hole I think I need to learn the espresso gig too. Was considering the Flair but think I should go all out and get the Meticulous. (Also have a home roaster)
Great review, I was wondering if you thought the placement of the rotary knob was poorly placed? Because honestly the placement of that rotary knob just looks like i’ll get a tired shoulder editing presets.
You've gotten me even more interested in this machine, still probably gonna ride my Barista Express until it dies but if it does, would likely get this. Any chance you'll look at the meticulous steam wand soon? Thanks for another great video
I'm concerned by how much I've heard something along the lines of "... Is a problem now, but apparently it will be fixed in the final production." it feels like an easy out for any weaknesses in a hype based marketing campaign. I think it is pretty obvious that there are no guarantees that any specific problems will be fixed by the time the machine will be in the backers' hands.
You can always wait for long term reviews and after the final product is released and out in the world in the next year or 2. Of course delays happen so it could be longer. Their philosophy on focusing on manufacturing the hardware first and ironing out as many rough parts there and refining the software later is reasonable. Many companies do this strategy. It is the boon and curse of "smart" devices with wifi or Bluetooth connectivity. As a base line it works just fine with the included profiles like the ones built into a breville machine. Kickstarter is not an investment. Treat it like a donation with the possibility of a physical or digital reward. If you can't risk it now then don't, it's simple. You have your worries and they are reasonable.
All valid points. Like we mention in the video it is a bit of a gamble when I comes to crowdfunded campaigns. Just have to decide if it’s worth the risk for you.
Great video, a lot of good information I couldn’t find in other previews. I found it a little concerning that it uses raspberry pi, since it’s not the most efficient system to use. It’s running a full desktop Linux, takes a long time to boot, and makes it feel like diy instead of a polished machine. I’d expect an android based computer to be a better fit. On the other hand, if it makes good espresso and is reliable, that’s what really matters.
All fair points. The boot time isn't too much of an issue considering how long some traditional machine take to come up to temp. The robustness of the hardware and its ability to do what it needs to to make good espresso is something we'll have to test once the production pieces are out. Like I mentioned, software is at an early stage of development so I'm assuming a lot could change between now and December and they may even make some hardware tweaks if they feel like it's lacking.
How would you compare this with the Decent Espresso machine? I like the idea of being able to make consistently great shots of coffee and downloading the profiles that experts discover and I can use.
Well that was a nice talk but you should have demonstrated a few different profiles and showed some graphs as it worked its magic. What were you thinking......... Considering where the water enters, I think temperatures profiling is a big ask on this machine. I love the simplicity of no pumps and tanks and think a heated kettle should get you to the right temperature very quickly.
Another beautifully made video! Congrats for your channel! One question that keeps coming in my head and bothering me, every video we see about meticulous uses really low temperatures and no one speaks about this nor try to attempt higher brews. That being said what about the taste of the shots with such low temperatures? Thanks! Hope you can see this and respond 🙏
@@BensCoffeeRants I'm aware of that, but that's not what I'm talking about. More specifically, I was asking about people brewing 86-89, max 92, from the videos I saw. Several people have questions about that too and every video no one explains or talks about it, the brewing temperature is simply ignored (the only thing they talk about is the preheat mode and that you can choose your brewing temp). The thing is: I think they should say something about it. We are used, for instance, when brewing lighter roasts, to use higher temp (95-96). I'm also aware of the boiling point limitations due to altitude. But there are plenty of places in which the machine have been which is sea level and that it would be possible to have tested it with higher temperatures.
@@philipurquiza I know they had issues with the paint bubbling from the heat with the prototype so maybe that's the reason, or it's like the Decent where supposedly the actual brew temperature is accurate and needs to be lower than on most machines which means on most machines brew temp is lower than we think it is, but I don't buy that. I thought when I first tried a Decent machine on the default temperature which was like 91c and the shots seemed like they were more sour as a result. But yeah I noticed this is even lower here at 89c. But I've seen a video where someone commented they heard bubbling and it was the water boiling, pretty sure whatever the issue is they're going to make it so you can set the temperature to at least standard brewing temperatures probably up to 95c at least I'd think.
Imagine the impact this will have on farmers, when consumers can access this type of control over variables. Now, they will be on a fast learning curve where coffee knowledge that is currently considered "expert," will now become common knowledge very quickly; meaning, the only obstacle to greater consumer demand for quality from farmers is their ability to taste, and I think we can all agree, that this ability, especially on a global scale, is mostly untapped. Up until now the coffee trade has been akin to snake oil sales because of the amount of specialized skill and equipment previously required to discern quality.
Hi RR and Aramse team . Fantastic video once again. I’m so tempted to back this but the only thing stopping me are the potential costom duties which could be 100% of the actual product cost . Is it something you took into consideration while ordering as well ?
Yup there will be customs and it's something we're concerned about too but we're not sure exactly how much it's going to cost us. We'll just have to wait and keep our fingers crossed.
Great review / video @aramse! Perhaps a strange comparison, but I am now considering the Meticulous vs Odyssey Argos and their individual merits etc. Simple question for you; do you think that the Argos is effectively able to produce anything that the Meticulous can (albeit manually with a pressure transducer?) - with the semi-auto function via the spring setup when lazy?
Well, technically yes, you could pull very similar profiles with the Argos but the 2 biggest differences would be the inability to monitor input flow and only have access to output flow rate if you own scales like the Lunar and the other would be repeatability. For a given coffee, once you setup a fairly complex pull you can recreate it very accurately with the Meticulous but you'd struggle to be that precise with a direct lever. With the spring you have repeatability but you're stuck to one profile. Hope that sort of answers your question.
@@aramse Thanks for your thoughts - I have never really considered input flow; but rather output flow rates only. In what circumstances do you think the former would be useful if output flow is measurable? I think the conceptual difficulty with the ME is the ability to manually set up a profile - i.e. so typically on levers when one lowers pressure when looking at the flow if channeling etc. Almost wish that the ME had a physical Lever! Yes with the spring that is true; but I also have held the spring back or pushed it faster in the past to adjust flow as well which seems to work
@@tzetv with profiles like the blooming espresso that we pulled in this video, you use input flow rate to determine how quickly you want to saturate the puck. Also the ME has tons of control. You don’t need to manually monitor flow ever. You can set the pressure profile and set the flow threshold and if you ever hit the threshold the machine with automatically drop pressure. And lastly we mentioned this too on the video, the production versions will have full manual control, the only difference is that you’d be using a knob instead if of a lever.
Fire up the app and take a one way ticket to nerd town. Haha. Sounds like something I would say. I feel like we are brothers from another mother. Great video. I had the VIP for Meticulous but I changed my mind. I just didn't want my money tied up for an unknown amount of time. Once they open the non kickstart sales, i will most likely pick one up.
love the concept, kinda hate the idea of no boiler and therefore no cup warmer, steam wand, hot water. makes it a good espresso only machine but not for anything else
@@80Entreri I hope that it materialises matey. But, there is an awful lot to do, especially with so many backers. Even large factories with extensive production lines cannot make volume in the figures that this project has attracted. Hopefully, Santa will call on you!
Thanks for the detailed video, really like the work that you guys are putting out. Couple of questions if you may: Can this do a back to back shot without purging all your water between shots? I would expect that you would add a bit of water for the second shot. Also, can you pull a shot with a half full reservoir, similar to how one can put exactly the water one needs in a picopresso. Thanks in advance for your response! Peace!
The builder has said for the updated version it has a higher capacity reservoir and they will add the feature so you can pull a shot 18g in 36g out and have enough water for another 18g in 36g out shot without having to refill. So 2 shots in a row before purging and refilling. Like a double-barrel shotgun?
Great insight into the product (as always) and has almost made me want to back this project too!! My main concern right now is to know whether we will be charged additional custom taxes at the time of the delivery. Would be great if you could shine some light on that :)
They don't include customs taxes in the price. They provide some estimated shipping costs, and with those and the pledge price you should be able to estimate what you would pay
It's not a Timemore Grinder unfortunately they don't include shipping and duties/import fees, but like Alex said they have an estimate on their kickstarter page, hopefully it's accurate as shipping costs are pretty reasonable!
So the build quality is not quite there it seems. Carlos himself stated in a video that they are using cheap metal only and use simple production mechanisms. That is not to say that this machine is not sturdy as hell, but (at least this first product iteration) won't be pleasing the high quality finish people out there (tactile feel of button, smooth round edges, etc you name it). I am baking the project since it's a cool product overall but I guess one can not expect the refinements of like Weber Workshop products here.
TFW an espresso machine gets you horney. However, having just gotten an espresso maker that I waited YEARS for on kickstarter, I'd underline the PSA about backing projects there. You're making a $1300 bet that they can get it done. Too rich for my blood.
With anything there's going to be a range of pricing and price is also relative. Flair just launched the Neo Flex which makes great, true, espresso at $99. It depends on what you're looking for.
Well it’s a third of the price, looks a lot better (imho), very low maintenance cuz you have no boilers, can do most of the cool stuff that the decent can and should have a much nicer app UX. it’s also very quiet. :) and for a little extra you can buy the meticulous milk or the morning dream.
Maybe. But the customer service by the Decent team, which is well known, makes this a non-issue. By the time that could become a realistic problem (and most likely will never be a real issue), I will have made 10x more coffee on the Decent than the Meticulous (along with Filter coffees, teas, pour-overs, etc. straight from the machine). God... that Meticuous workflow for one shot would just kill me. They should have called it the Tedious. By all means, buy the E-Bike...I'll keep having fun on my motorcycle 🙂 @@aramse
Haha Tedious. That’s funny. But yeah I agree. Different machines, different price points and different target audience. I love the Decent btw. Just that I think the Meticulous is excellent too.
I love you brother , and I love your channel…but please can you keep your channel PG it seems you used the F word and some of us we watch around our families and kids …Thanks
what a ridiculous and complicated, pseudo-overengineered monstrum - what an idiotic "workflow", where you have to use an external laptop or gadget and an electric cattle and after filling in the water (hopefully w/out dropping beneath ) you have to put on the two donut (do-not?) magnetic parts... what, if sometime in the future the company shuts down the production an d there are no more firmware updates..;-((. ;-)))
@aramse do you think we can use filter coffee and a slow low pressure profile to get a aeropress style coffee out of it? @meticulous if so I will order one immediately!
