Metric or Imperial Measurements: Does it matter in the workshop? 

We (I'm from germany) do just round the metric mesurements, as you do with the imperial. Your 5 1/2 x 2 1/2 feet desk would in metric not build with 1676.4 mm x 762 mm but at the standard size for desks of 160 x 80 cm or, 1.6 m x 80 cm which is mostly pronounced 1 meter 60 by 80. A Two-by-four is in metric 4 x 8 cm or 40 x 80 mm and you can get it in 2.5 m or 250 cm or 4 m long, a beam is 9x9 or 10x10 cm. A whole sheet of plywood is 2500 x 1250 mm or 3000 x 1500 mm and you can get it in different thicknesses from 3 to 25 mm. (Yes, that's an inch) A guy 6 feet 5 inches tall would be 1.95 m (commonly pronounced one meter ninetyfive), and weighs, let's say, 98 kg. When the distance to the supermarket is about a mile (e.g. exactly 1552 m or 1700 yard or 0.965 miles), in metric you would say it's about 1.5 km or one and a half kilometer ("Ein einhalb kilometer" in german) away. We commonly don't use decimeters, it's just 10 centimeters, or 20, or 30 centimeters, which is the standard length of a ruler at school, 50 cm or 0.5 m is commonly pronounced "a half meter", 2.5 m "two and a half meter" ( Zwei einhalb meter). Btw: The distance from my elbow to the tip of my middle finger is 50 cm, from the wrist to the finger 20 cm and from elbow to wrist is 30cm, very handy when i don't have a tape measure at hand :-). Tiles are commonly 20x20, 25x25, 30x30, 50x50, 60x60 cm, or 80x40 cm or 120x40 cm, the doors im my house are 2 meter high and 80 centimeter wide. A square meter is 1x1 m, so a room of 4x5.5 m (about 13 x18 ft) has 22 square meter or of 3x5 m has 15 square meter, a hektar (from hekto - hundred) is 100x100 m, which is a common measure for land ("The area is about 100 hektar" which is about 250 acre). A cubic meter is 1x1x1 m or 1000 liters and a cubic meter of water weighs 1 ton or 1000 kg. A package of milk or a bottle of coke is usually 1 liter. My car has a fuel tank of 70 liter, and it consumes 7.1 liter of fuel at 100 km (or does 14 km per liter). A drinking glass or a can of soda or beer has 0.25 l or 0.33 l or 0.5 liter. The cup of coke at McDonald has 0.33, 0.4 or 0.5 liter, which is here the large size. (16, 21 and 30 fl oz in US? How much sugar is that? No wonder why many americans are so fat. Yes, the people in germany too gets bigger and bigger.) A leaf of butter is 250g, a package of sugar or flour has 1000 g or 1 kg, a package of spaghetti or noodles or oat flakes has 500 g or 1 (metric) pound. A ton is 1000 kg, so my car weighs 1700 kg or 1.7 tons, a semi truck with trailer (18-wheeler) weighs 40 tons and is called a 40-Tonner in german. Ok, there are some exceptions, e.g. the size of a standard A4 sheet of paper for letters is 210x297 mm. Sounds weird, doesn' t it? But it's metric, too. A0 is exactly 1 m² (841x1189 mm) with an aspect ratio of the sides of 1.4142 (sqare root of 2), so you can just cut it half and you get two A1 sheets, cut that to two A2, that to two A3 and that to two A4 and so on. (Right, you get exactly 16 A4 sheets out of 1 A0 sheet with no cutoff). The density is usually 80g/m², so an A1 sheet weighs 40 g, A2 is 20 g, A3 is 10 g and an A4 sheet is 5 g. You see, in our every day life it's very easy to handle with metric mesures, and the conversion between the different sizes just by moving the decimal point is way more easy than the imperial way.

I'm a scientist from the US that recently started woodworking. I struggle with the imperial measurements often, and actually purchased a metic tape measure about a month ago. I really enjoyed this video. Thanks

1676mm long desk is weird because it is converted from feet, we would simply make a 1.6m long desk, which is "graceful" enough

the problem I see with your argument is that in all your examples you are still converting measures from imperial, and that's why you end up with wonky metric measurements. someone fully working in metric would not end up with a 1637mm desk, he would build a 1600mm or 1.6m desk. or the 837mm board would probably end up being 850mm or 85cm and those would be much more "elegant" measurements

What I learned today: If you ever want a video to go viral, include a discussion of Metric or Imperial measurements.

We live in California so it doesn't matter how many miles or kilometers the destination is, it's the time. A friend moved to El Segundo from Oklahoma. He asked his neighbor how far it was to Disneyland, his neighbor said, "Oh, about 45 minutes." My friend asked, "How many miles?" His neighbor said, "I have no idea, but it takes about 45 minutes to get there."

I am in England and am 70 years old ! We went from fractional drawings ( 1/16 , 9/32 etc) then we went to decimal imperial ( 0.125 ,0.281) For many years now we have used the metric system and it is much better and , in general more accurate to work to . Initially, every one had problems thinking in the old system and converting it in their heads for purposes of realising how big ,say 150 mm is . That said it soon gets better to visualise sizes when you are working in metric frequently. It is simpler and more accurate to use, tools, drills etc become more standard and with a small range of sizes ....a spanner set in metric has far less items than needed to cover imperial, nuts and bolts are far more standard I love the chopsticks analogy ! I still do not no how big an acre is far less so a hectares. You had a decimal system of money since 1800 or so and how you all griped over our £ S D. 12 pennies to the shilling , 20 shillings to the pound ! We now have 100 p to the pound which you have to admit is simpler, less confusing I believe the main reason for the USA not going metric is the cost but the benefits would be well worth it

Hi Steve. I should tell you that you are not THINKING the metric way yet. We don't use decimeters because in practical purposes it is not needed. On a regular day by day basis we DON'T use fractions (ok may be in recipes, but the upper limit is half of spoon or cup or anything else). Milimeters are used only in technical specifications. Let me try this way: In very formal, technical, precision and fine or modular woodworking we use milimeters. Even for a modular kitchen you can use centimeters if the customer can deal with some "tolerance". In day by day regular woodworking, we use centimeters and meter combination: A desk is 1.2 m long, 60 cm wide and 75 cm height. A double bed is 135 x 190 cm (1.35 x 1.90 m for customers). A door is 2.2 m height and 80 cm wide. A bedroom is 3.5 m wide and 4 m long. A living room is 5 m wide and 8 m long. A land plot is 60 m wide and 100 m long. If you have a farm or are measuring distances use the kilometer "km" (meter plus 1000) !!! That farm extends on a 10 km long and 8 km wide terrain. The city where I live is 75 km far from Rio de Janeiro. The distance from our Capital to your Capital is 6,792 km. The Moon is 384,400 km far from Earth. We don't need something like foot (yard or mile), for nothing !!! So. If you want to really THINK the metric way, just forget about foot and fractions. We don't need or use those, period. Just another example: The top of the "Basic Mobile Workbench" in metric system is 121.9 x 59.7 cm. There is no way someone do this using that. Unless it it is a rocket science workbench, it should be specified as 120 x 60 cm. Regards.

Talking to woodworkers about having ten fingers....

Years ago I was placed on an engineering project in Canada and was my first real dive into the metric system. By the end of the project I was absolutely in love with the metric system. I wouldn't take long for most people to learn and adjust.

"Having a desk 5 1/2 feet seems elegant where 1676mm seems wrong". If made it metric it would probably be made to 1700mm. Just like you wouldn't make something 5ft 6 and ⅞inch. Converting makes things awkward but if designed for one system or the other makes it so much easier from the beginning.

I am from germany and yes, i use the metric system. But we have here a similar issue. More than 30 years ago it was decided, that we use KW(Kilowatt) instead of PS(Horsepower) when it comes to cars. But no one does it, everybody uses Horespower. It is difficult to adapt to new units if you are used to the old ones.

Take it easy people .. you are free to use the metric system or be wrong!

Metric user here... I've never used a decimeter. Also I don't think that centimeters aren't for woodworking.. in fact I use cenimeter mostly when I'm doing woodworking (I'd rather say 46,5cm than 465mm) but when I'm doing machining and metalworking milimeters come to place.

Good video. I think the only thing that matters is using a system of measurement that gets the project in the correct dimensions to fit the application. I have used a piece of string to build a cabinet before when I couldn't find a tape measure. I measured the space it was going into with the string and made marks on it with a magic marker. Then built the cabinet using nothing but the string for measurements and it worked fine. I didn't need to know how many inches or centimeters it was I just needed to know the size. Dividing the measurement in half is easy, just fold the string over onto itself.

I am from Germany living in the US and I "hate" that every conversion in the imperial system is different to each other ;) But your suggestion for the metric system tape measure to only us 2 mm steps is obsolete. Regardless which number you want to reach, you never have to count to more than 2. The trick is the 5 mm line, which is longer than the the others. For example: if you need 837 mm ... go to the 80 cm and follow up to the additional 3 cm ... there you don't have to count the 7 steps to the 7th mm, like you did in the video. Instead you look for the 5 mm line (which is a little longer) and only count the next 2 lines. Congratulations you reached 837 mm :) If you need 838 mm, go to 80, than to 40(1) and go back 2 mm = 338. Hope that makes your life a little easier :)

Steve, Here's how you need to think about metric measurements to make it simple... That desk is 1676 mm long or 167.6 cm or 16.76 dm or 1.676 m or even 0.001676 km if you like... It's all about simply moving the decimal place. No need to do actual math.

Steve, your desk example i think in a good example as to why Americans seem not to get the metric system. You have designed a 5 1/2' desk. Why 5 1/2' and not 5ft 5in? Because 5 1/2' is easier to express. Metric designers would design a 1,700mm desk. Then if we want to make a quick set of imperial plans for American sales we'd say it was 66 15/16" or 5' 6 15/16".

as a french raised with metric system, what you says about units that speaks to our intuition is completely wrong. I've never met such a problem. To measure my house I use meters, to measure a desk I use meters, cm, or mm according to the context and the accuracy I need. I will never use something like 1676 mm in casual conversation. I would just say "my desk is about 1.7m". And everyone will see in his mind what it looks like. "1676mm" is only for technical perpose.

I'm new to woodworking and am considering just teaching myself metric here near the beginning, though I've learned the imperial system fairly well. In computers the base 10, hex, and decimal systems used are familiar to me already (well, somewhat). Fractions suck, for starters. The less conversions the better and cm, mm, etc make sense.

As a Brit, I use mm, cm, and m. But I buy pints in the pub and litres in the fuel station. I stick to 70 miles per hour on the motorway and my car does 26 miles a gallon but it has a 2 litre engine. I also recognise a room that is in feet rather than anything metric and doors are 6 foot six high. We buy sheet goods in metric, 2440x1220mm, then build on 2ft centres so it fits!! All our “lumber” or timber is odd metric MM based on old imperialism. Give me 32nds and 16ths of an inch and I’m stuck though!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿😆🤓

We don't use decimeter because we're so used to visualizing anything from 1cm to 1m, no big deal. If you ask me to measure 75cm with my hands, or 1.25m, it would be pretty easy. ;-) I think your examples of the nature 1645mm is a bit ridiculous to be honest. That's only used in engineering documents, and construction, where these measures are extremely important. We just convert it to cm by moving the decimal place.

I’m switching to metric. I am Canadian so it’s a natural choice to go metric. For construction and buildings I use feet, but for finer woodworking I switch to the more accurate metric system. Works for me, Thanks for the video Steve.

How about 1.5m or 1.6m or 1.7m desk?

"The metric system is the tool of the devil. My car gets 40 rods to the hogs head, and that's just the way I like it!!" -Grandpa Simpson

Loved the points from both sides for this video - I'm an Englishman, born and raised with the metric system in the UK and now a general contractor in California. In my experiences since being in the states, there are benefits to both sides though I find the benefits of imperial only being on benefit to me because the US uses the imperial system. 8' x 4' OSB sheets land great on 16"/24" centers whereas using 400mm/600mm centers as it would be in the UK, that doesn't work quite as well. When fitting kitchens, I don't go measuring 914mm for a counter height, it's 36"...though when i'm back to making cabinets, i move back to the 32mm system because that's what i know and the cabinets are all measured metric. It's strange working in this hybrid system but for the most part i'm making it work from both sides. With another string to my bow being architectural design, mm are something I crave when working from drawings that are not drawn by my company. Using your desk measurements as an example, 5-1/2' is a standard size for imperial whereas the metric equivalent would be 1600, 1650 or 1700mm - it wouldn't be practical to cut to the mm but when measuring for custom cabinets, i do work to the mm, given board thicknesses are also metric not imperial...and nobody really wants to start dividing 23/32 vs 18mm - or at least i don't because i grew up with metric.

Hi Steve, here in Brazil we use metric system. Day to day I try to convert to imperial just for fun and practicing. Few things we use the imperial system, such as TV size (inches). By the way, millimeters only for really small objects like the diameter of a screw. A desk would measure 1,5m - one and a half meter. Great video.

10mm, 11mm, 12mm 3/8", 7/16", 1/2" enough said.

Steve. Here in Scotland we muddle by with a mish mash of both. We buy pints of beer but litres of milk. Plywood in imperial but lumber in metric. We buy gallons of petrol but it's charged by the litre. It's crazy. For myself I use metric in woodworking - for the most part. Some folk seem to visualise the size things more easily in one or the other... Always thought it ironic that the States stuck with anything 'imperial'...Best aye!

In the 40s Ford Motor Company instructed its designers to stop using fraction and switch to thousandth's of an inch. This is practice still common in machining.

Just keep your fractions out of my metric system and we'll continue getting along just fine.

Apart from absolute accuracy (seriously, when you need to start using fractions that are thousandths [of an inch], you need a smaller unit... Also 1000 isn't a multiple of 12, so doesn't even really fit with the other fractions) the base 10 makes switching from meters to centimeters to millimeters incredibly easy, it's just a case of shifting the decimal point around. While I kind of like the idea of using the decimeter more often (though not as much as I like the mega-meter), I think this is still a hold over from the imperial system... For example a person that's say half an inch under 6-foot, in imperial, that would be 5' 11&1/2" (or really, it should be "1 yard, 2 feet, 11 and 1/2 inches") in metric you would simply say 1.82m (or else 182cm) you dont have a need for an intermediate unit because it's so easy to convert between them all. I do find it strange in imperial for weights how pounds are continued to be used up to very high numbers, despite the fact that more convenient large units (tons) are available, so you might have a 3000 lb vehicle but isn't it just as easy to say 1.3 tonnes or 1300 kg? It does start to get silly when they start talking in the range of millions of pounds though. I think it must just be so awkward to convert between the different units that people don't bother. The same goes for altitudes, why keep using feet when you have yards and miles when the numbers get big enough?

"... most of us have 10 fingers..." -- says the woodworker ;)

As a long time engineer, I wish so much the US would finally get with the rest of the world. It seems mundane but measurements are extremely important and vital, and it's why people get passionate. As someone that worked extensively with international suppliers, my job would've been 1000x easier and less complicated if we were just metric. Using a widespread standard on something as fundamental and vital as your measurement system does actually make it better. We use standards everywhere in woodworking from standard cabinet depths to thickness of boards. Why? It's widespread which keeps costs down. We've lost satellite to mars because of a simple thing like a measurement conversion. Sure sounds trivial, but think of the 10s of thousands of measurement conversions that happened in that one satellite. You're just asking for trouble by being stubborn. I've had extensive time abroad too, when you're fully immersed in the new measurement system, the acclimation period is actually really fast, within a week or two. And once you'e acclimated to metric, going back to imperial ends up being a major PIA. Simple decimal math you can do in your head makes a huge difference at the grocery store, because it's harder for merchants to play games with prices and package sizes because the math is easy. Also no more confusion between fluid ounces and weight ounces (another game manufactures/marketers play). Also, about culture, many of these countries went through their own conversion as well. It's not like they don't know what they are talking about. The only reason why the US hasn't converted has to do with the fact that we're the big dog and can afford to force the rest of the world to deal with us. If we were a smaller country we'd be forced to adapt or suffer irrelevance. So really the cultural disrespect is the other way around. We're being disrespectful because we insist we're super special and forcing everyone to have to deal with millions of unnecessary conversations a day. There is however on ding with metric. It would be better if it was base 12. But that's not really a problem with metric, but our number system as a whole. Base 12 would allow you to count on one hand using only 4 fingers (count between your knuckles). Base 12 also would make 1/3rds way easier to deal with as 1/3 would be 0.4 instead of 0.3333333333333. 1/4 = 0.3, 1/8 = 0.15 1/16 = 0.075, 1/2 = 0.6, 2/3 = 0.8. Those conversions are way nicer than base 10. But alas, that shipped sailed a couple hundred years ago.

I graduated high school in 1981 and remember the big push to learn the metric system mostly in the 70’s. The most confusing thing that frustrated everyone was learning to convert imperial to metric. If they just went to metric and left imperial behind us ,it would have been easier and less confusing.

Superbly balanced and rational discussion Steve. Well done. I'm an old fart from the UK who grew up with both systems. In the workshop I skip between the two systems depending on what feels right for the scale of the project. UK lumber sizes are a bloody mess so I always take a tape measure with me to be sure. Thanks again for a great video. Gary

Some really good points, but to tackle the title, if it matters in the workshop, I find the answer is the same as to the question which is better. Like you point out early in the video, whichever one you are accustomed to is better, simply because you're more comfortable using it and is less likely to make errors using it. There is no definite answer, it's all up to who is using it. The point you make about spending more time thinking when using a metric tape measure is mirrored directly for those who grew up metric and is trying to use imperial measurements. By the law of measure twice and cut once, that matters. I think that goes conversationally as well, I simply cannot visualize how much 10 square feet is, I don't have a frame of reference for it, but I do for 1 square meter. When I lived in the states I tried to use imperial in the shop, but I ended up defaulting back to metric. Similarly I wouldn't consider using imperial in Sweden, but I would understand if an American coming here would. (as long as they keep to metric speed on the road, to keep from breaking the law :D ) Though, Steve, you have one error, the decimeter is used, extensively, at least over here in Sweden it's used in many situations, similarly as the foot is used. Can't speak for other countries though. Funny thing about breaking inches down into tenths as well, that measurement exists, but is highly archaic. A "decimal inch" used to exist, however, it was before the adaptation of the English inch, so the inch they divided in ten was around 30mm long, which each division about 3mm. Now, let's talk the important issue, let's switch to UNIX time! We just need to remember how many seconds since January 1st 1970 and then add one every second, right now it's 1525456546 o'clock (no joke).

I built a Paulk workbench a few months ago and it was the first project I did completely using metric and it was SO much easier! Having to half something that is 4 feet 5 and 5/16 is way more difficult than just halfing one whole metric number. I found that I was much more accurate with my measurements, I was spending less time triple measuring stuff to make sure I did my fractions right, and I got the project done much quicker than some smaller projects I had previously worked on. The only big bummer is that if I'm gonna go full metric I have to replace all of my imperial tool (or at least portions of them) such as my multi square, speed square, and etc. Metric completely wins though and is so much easier.

Measurements tend to be in millimeters, but we tend to talk about things in centimeters or even meters. The conversion is instant and easy.

I was brought up in the UK at a glorious time where we learnt both. I measure distances in imperial, volume in metric, pressure I use both. Speed is imperial. My slightly younger brother, same school, same teachers, but a few years behind is metric only.

Being British I am used to metric. I have tried the 'American' imperial system and i can't get used to it. To me metric seems more accurate, and easier to understand. 100mm is easier to measure than 3.93701 inches, but i guess that all depends on what you were taught and brought up using. The majority of the world uses metric, and there's a reason for that. In fact, we here in the UK still use both for different things like height and weight - imperial for some reason

In Argentina we use something similar to your system, for example you’d say 5 1/2 feet, we don’t say 1500 mm (approximately) we’d say 1 meter and a half or 1,50 meters

Excellent video, Steve. You have really been killing it with this series of basics, and I have found myself sharing more of them than ever.I am the corporate trainer for the American subsidiary of a German furniture/cabinet hardware manufacturer and every month we "onboard" new employees who inevitable have little experience with the metric system. Considering that 99% of our hardware was developed in Europe it helps to understand both the metric system and the 32mm System if you are working with modern hardware. Slides, hinges, kitchen accessories, closet accessories are all designed to play in the metric world, and American woodworkers are missing out of they don't at least understand the thinking that went into the details of these products. I find that most of my students relate better if I start with the meter and work down in size. Years ago I was a clockmaker, or Horologist, as we like to call ourselves, and I was thrilled to learn that it was a Horologist who cracked the code to the meter. If you make a tall case clock (think Grandfather clock) and adjust the length of the pendulum until the clock is keeping perfect time, the length of that pendulum is 1 meter, or for us Americans, roughly a yard plus 3 inches. It doesn't matter where you are in the world (ignoring high altitude variables because those folks are crazy) for the first time in world history we had a method where you could have an exact unit of measure. From there, if you divide the pendulum into 100 divisions, you will have 100 centimeters. The word 100 in Latin is "centum". Think of the coin you have in your pocket that is worth 1/100 of a dollar. On it is the word "cent". If you take that meter and divide it 1000 times you would have millimeters. Latin for 1000 is "mille". At work I am 100% metric and we work only with millimeters and meters. Centimeters and Decimeters are never mentioned, but we do have some 2 ½ meter long items, such as closet rod. In my own shop I'm a mix, but that has more to do with following someone else’s dimensions, such as a plan or drawing. Again, thanks for tackling this, Steve. Scott

By the way, on the 2mm tape point, you should never need to count more than three little mm marks on a tape. Every 5mm is longer, so 8mm is either 5+3 or 10-2. The biggest issue I personally have with mentally dealing with inches, as a non-native user, I have a hard time visualising whether a fraction is larger or smaller when we get into odd 8ths and 16ths etc... I can work it out if necessary, but I can get lost following RU-vid videos.

Loved this video Steve. As a High School woodwork and Construction teacher in Australia I obviously use metric mm. House plans are in mm for accuracy. Teaching students to use mm after they've become accustomed to cm in primary school can even be a challenge. When I order timber, it is sold in divisions of 300mm or 0.3 m, harking back to being sold in feet increments. So I usually order boards starting at 1200, 1500, 1800, 2100, 2400 etc I learnt imperial because of my Pop, and we would always convert back and forth. My wife is from California, so I often design and build in imperial around the house. With some of my recent projects I'll use both. If I take a measure from something I'll use the measurement that's closest on the tape. If it's 8' I'll use that, if it's 2400, I'll go with that. (2400 is a bit shorter that 8'. I recently bought some hardwood that was sold as 200x50x2400 roughsawn, and some of it was closer to 8"x2"x8') Sometimes setting my saw to 2&1/4" is quicker than 56-57mm (56.8mm) I think if you can work with both, you can be much more adaptable to different situations. Tools (saw blades, router bits etc) are sold here in both. I recently bought a 10" blade. There were 2 brands saying 10". They also said 254mm and 255 mm respectively. Sometimes buying plywood you can get lucky. You might order a 1200x2400 board and actually get a 4'x8' (1220x2440) Damo

IF you want to use decimal feet, get an engineering tape measure. Most have feet, 10th of feet and 100th of feet. So, it's really easy to measure 3.6' for example.

About reading the millimeters on the tape measure: Notice the centimeters are divided in two half-centimeter chunks. From there, you only need to count at most to two (something anyone can do at a glance): 140mm, smack dab on the centimeter marking; 141, count one up from the nearest whole centimeter; 142, count two up; 143, count two down from the nearest half-centimeter; 144, one down; 145, smack dab; 146, count one up from the previous half-centimeter and so on. And yes, it is much easier to do those "divide in half" and "subtract the length of the other part" calculations in your mind in metric than in imperial, but one does get used to it (as I did when I lived in the US).

I started the hobby of woodworking while stationed in Italy. Needless to say, all the boards are sold in metric measurements. At the hobby shop, the tools were in metric and imperial (measurement tape, scale at the table saw, etc.). At the time, I found it easier to measure in metric measurements and it helped me in saving material by cutting and ripping strategically. The few things that I built there were also designed using metric measurements.

Engineer scales (those weird rulers that look like 3 rulers joined at the center) commonly have inches divided into tenths. So it is entirely possible to have 2.6". My father-in-law is a land surveyor and he has a 100ft tape measure with one side in fractions of an inch and one side in tenths of an inch. And machinists in the U.S. commonly use thousandths of an inch. For instance, 0.033" is thirty three thousandths of an inch. 1/32" just isn't precise enough.

“In Metric we start with a tiny unit which is the millimeter” I’m sorry but I have to correct you here. By definition we start with the Meter. Which is divided by thousand to create the millimeter. Or multiplied by a thousand to create a kilometer. Or divided by a million to get a micrometer or micron.

A few of points: (1) Most people conflate decimalization (using base-10) with metrication (using meters). You can have one, or both, or neither. Stanley sells a decimal inch "PowerLock" tape measure. In the workshop of the physics department of my university, we used a milling machine that measures thousandths of inches: decimal inches. Conversely, when we were roughing out layout in the lab we'd sometimes talk about quarters of a meter, because the scientific equipment was dimensioned in meters and we were chatting about how much space we needed between things. We had a few power-of-2 fractional meter sticks and rulers hanging around as well. (2) I did some minor design work in metric. When you want to design naturally in metric units, you usually want to work with integer numbers. To do so, it's really convenient to pick a "base", like 60mm (aka 6cm). Once you notice this trick you start to see it everywhere (especially Ikea furniture and electronics). Your bigger dimensions can then be integer multiples of that base and your smaller dimensions are simple fractions of that base. The millimeter is small enough that you can choose a base that's ideal for whatever kind of symmetry you're looking for in your project, whether that's halves, thirds, fifths, or something else. Choosing a base like 60mm gives you the nice mix of quarters and thirds that people like with inches and feet, and it's just barely long enough to "think with" like feet. I also like 32mm as an "inch equivalent" when I want the convenience of power-of-two fractions; it's just a bit longer than the 25.4mm of an actual inch. (2b) I've noticed when providing dual-system units, it's easier overall to design in inches and convert to metric. I mean, it's easier in just-metric, but if you're going dual-system, don't start from metric. This is just because if you provide all your dimensions in apparently arbitrary numbers of 32nd inches, the inch users will justifiably want to kill you and wear your skin, but metric users can easily deal with whatever b.s. non-round numbers you throw at them. (3) One of the perks of using decimal is that there's "no conversion" when switching between meters, centimeters, and millimeters. What I mean is that you write down the same numerals no matter which unit your ruler is in. This is a subtle mental speed bump that people accustomed to customary units expect with feet and inches and tend to not notice that it's missing. Your brain expects a conversion, so you don't look over the speed bump to notice that "the conversion" is already done. Next time you're reading your ruler "in centimeters," try writing the numerals down one tens-place at a time without thinking about it "in centimeters": you'll find that you've written the measurement in millimeters. Stick the decimal in the thousands-place and you've written it in meters.

Use both! I once made a king size bedframe with my wife using only my own body as measurement. literally a length of string and my own body and it turned out perfect!

I'm in the UK - I use both, sometimes at the same time. 1.676 metres is easier to say. Plywood sheet 2440 x 1220 (twenty four, forty by twelve twenty ). I the UK I've never, ever heard anyone use decimetre. People move from centimetres to metres bypassing decimetres. We use mixed tape measures. Inches have the advantage that the numbers are printed bigger. I'll use whichever number is closest to what I want, if I measure something and it comes out at say 13 1/2 inches I'll use that rather than 34.29 cm or 342.9 mm. Conversely 620mm for a cabinet is nicer to work with than 24 13⁄32” inches (and that's got some error).

The point is not to criticize a country for adopting one system of measures or another, the point is to work day by day using the measurement system you have been used to since you were born, nothing more. Here in Spain, as in the rest of Europe, we use the metric system for almost everything... except pipes, which are still measured in inches, as well as the size of TV screens or the sizes of certain types of clothing, especially sports shoes. For everything else, the metric system is used, although it is common for clothing, for example, to have different sizes from one country to another, despite using the same metric system. In any case, I don't think there is a 100% perfect system, I also find it very hard to see the numbers on my tape measure clearly, things from over half a century old and suffering the effects of presbyopia, now I would like to have a tape measure scaled in inches, I could see it without effort! A warm greeting from Spain and congratulations on your video, a thorny question for some and merely anecdotal for most.

Murican' carpenter guy here. I used to scoff hard-core against the metric system until I moved to Turkey, married an exotic Turkish gal and helped her father build an addition to his cafe. First time in my life I had to draw up building plans in metric and learn how to actually use it. I had to go to a local lumber yard and get educated on speaking "metric" and disgruntled it would be a hassle, but to my shock it was incredibly easier than inches and feet. My slow-thinking country boy brain easily replaced centimeter for inch, meter for yard, and just tossed out foot/feet altogether. Communication was easy. I really only had to count to ten in Turkish and learn a little Turk-style metric slang like saying "centim" for centimeter and I was good to go. Best of all, there was no fussing with nonsensical fraction measurements or math, like trying to subtract "nine and thirty-TOOTHS." Working with a ten-based system in wood working is so much faster and easier.

Rough measurments in metric are usually done in meters, and the decimeters are just after the comma. It's not rare to see things like 2,2m or 1,8m - which is basically the "decimeter" measurment, but easier to round up. Lumber is usually in lengths of 2, 3 and 6 meters from my experience. milimeters are for technical drawings or fastener measurments, etc.

Thank you Steve. I've spend the half my life in Europe (the Netherlands) and the second in the U.S. I started woodworking a few years ago (in the U.S) and it was a small challenge adapting to the U.S system. I still have a Imperial and metric tape measure! But like you said it's NOT that big of a deal. Thank you for all you do and over the years me and my wife have learned a lot! not just about woodworking but also many other things in life. How to be a decent percent online comes to mind. Or that you don't have spend thousands of dollars to enjoy woodworking as a hobby. (many other things) Again thank you.

After learning and using the imperial system all this years, I realized how simple, less complicated and precise the metric system is !

Being English and now 69, I was brought up using imperial measurements, but at age of 11 introduced to the metric system at school. The U.K. Converted officially a number of years ago except for speed limits etc which are still in miles per hour, beer which is still normally sold in pints, but can be half a litre. Most of the population is happy with both systems. Many things are sold with metric measurements, but because of tradition and the cost of manufacturing are still the same size as when imperial.

I am a mechanical drafter for an international engineering/manufacturing company headquartered in the United States. We have both units on all of our product drawings, Imperial followed by metric as noted in the title block of the drawing for drawings created in the US or metric followed by imperial for drawings created in countries that use metric. This is how it would be formatted: 12.00" [304.8mm].

Congratulations Steve on winning the 2018 award for best visual effects! The way you blend computer generated imagery and practical effects is breathtaking. (;

I do really appreciate the ideas you've developped in this video. This is really pertinent. An european metric user

I was in elementary school when they tried to convert the US to metric. Looking back, I can see why it failed. All we did was convert mm to cm, or liters to kiloliters on paper, for example. Sure, we were given those plastic government-issued metric rulers (who remembers those?), but I don't remember us doing much actual measuring. This is the same reason kids hate metric system today. It is taught as theory in math class with little or no practical application. This is not a dig at math teachers...their class is simply the wrong place to teach metric. Years later, early in my career as a shop teacher, I realized that nobody in metric countries sits around converting ml to liters, or cm to meters, they just USE IT. So I did a project with my students where we measured in millimeters. They were very apprehensive when I announced we'd be measuring in metric (because they remembered how boring and pointless their prior metric instruction in math class was), BUT when they actually got a chance to USE the metric system, they all agreed it was far easier! Especially if you have to multiply or divide. I use mm almost exclusively when designing objects for 3D printing nowadays. Steve makes some interesting insights in this video, especially how valuable the foot is, to some people, as a medium unit of measure. However, I don't think remembering 5 ft 3-7/16 inches, for example, is significantly easier than remembering 1476 mm. The only thing holding me back from going total metric is my tools, drill bits, wrenches, and sheet goods are all in inches. It is a superior system. One more note: I have these steel rulers in my class with one side metric. The morons who made this ruler made two crucial mistakes: 1. The metric side says "mm" near the zero end, indicating that it's divided into millimeters...but at 10 mm, the ruler says "1". Yes, I know that's 1 cm, but that's confusing to people, especially kids. It should say "10" at 10 millimeters, not "1". 2. The first 10 cm, there's marks every HALF millimeter. Really? A pencil line is almost a full millimeter wide. Even the young eyes of my students can barely see a half mm! Worst part is, it is very difficult to see the whole mm's with the half mm marks clouding the issue. SMH!

In the spirit of humor, years ago, (late 1960's) I worked under a crusty old cabinet-maker who was a real curmudgeon. He was an immensely talented and creative individual from whom I learned much. These arguments always bring me a smile as I remember his salty "I'll (expletive deleted) switch to the metric system when they put ten months in a year!"

An old dog can learn new tricks. I am in my first year of conversion to metric and I am thinking “why did I wait so long.?” I find it so much simpler to use. Everything is in units, no halves, quarters, eights, sixteenths, etc.... I now measure everything in metric.

I find it funny when you say desk is 1676mm wide. What I do is that I just change the decimal point and say its one meter and 70cm or 1,7 meter.

Hi Steve. Greetings from Czech republic. Thank´s for your oppinions about these two systems. I´m not an expert to history, but my oppinion is, that situation about measurements in Europe was extremly difficult before meteric system. We also used miles, yards, feets and inches (but in Czech we called them "míle", "sáhy", "stopy" and "couly". And everyone in Europe used them. But these units was not same acros large areas. Their lenghts are based on lenghts of parts of human body. Historicaly every single bigger marketplace defined their own lenghts. So there was Prague´s yard, but it has different lenght than Wien´s yard, or Paris´s yard etc. It was huge problem for trading goods acros nations or even regions of some countries. Metric system was developed in France and it is one of many benefits of their revolutions. In european wildeness of thousands of regional measurement units, it fas far better system for unification. Maybe in US was never such an issue this diversification of units and therefore it´s easier to use inches and feets. I´m not used to use them and when I visit US it was quite issue for me, but not so big. (Lenghts and temperatures are not so difficult, volumes and forces are far worse to me to imagine.) When I see some videos about carpentery in US, it is very nice how simple and effective system you developed for constructions. Usualy just small numbers and simple math operations. But on other side, I see biggest advantage of metric system in it´s consistency acros whole units. Usualy doesn´t matter what unit is used, because conversion is just in moving decimal point. So if you make plans in milimeters it is almost same like if you make them in kilometers or in nanometers. Of coutrse that milimeters are far better for reading in these plans, but in case of kilometers, conversion would be not as difficult as if you make your plans in miles and not in inches. Usualy in metrics carpenters uses centimeters and woodworkers and metalworkers (for finer works like cabinet workers etc.) uses milimeters. But this is just convention. And these difficult numbers in milimeters which you point, that is just because you using inches as basic unit, then you get such a wild numbers. In Europe you would not build desk with base dimensions of 1174×546 mm but you would use some nicer numbers like 1150×550 mm or maybe 1200×600 mm. Then it does´t look so bad. Once again thanks for your video.

you hit the nail on the head steve. breaking the inch down into 10ths would drastically reduce confusion even if it was smaller than a 10th. no more 16ths, 32nds, 64ths, or 128ths. everytime i try to get accurate with my calipers i've got to stop and figure out what 16th is closer to whatever measurement i get.

Hi there from Portugal, Lumber in Portugal is sold in cubic meters. Ex. 1 m3(cubic meter) of beech is about 900€(not real price!), so you just need to calculate the volume :D Obrigado(Thanks)

First, thanks for all great videos you have done over the years. Always fun to get another perspective on things. Its very clear for me how into imperial you are when you bring up the desk as a sample. As a metric person I should only use that type of width if it was supposed to fit into a certain space. If it as your desk is a standalone I would make 1600mm or 1650mm or 1700mm. And then your problem with a odd number is gone.

Hi Steve, how are you? It's not only Europeans who appreciate you, we Brazilians also enjoy your videos. Here in Brazil we have by culture the use of the metric system, but we live very well with the imperial system, so much so that the metric tapes come with both systems printed. Hugs.

The part of math that most kids absolutely *HATE* is fractions and then they grow up to be woodworkers and do nothing by manipulate fractions and get super defensive about the US Customary Units. BTW, my British colleagues insist that we don't call it "Imperial" units in our publications since they have disowned the "Imperial" system they created and don't want to be blamed for it any longer.

The queen is very proud of you for being a good colony and keeping the systems of the empire alive . God save the queen!

for really screwed up come to the UK, we are officially a metric country, we have our currency in the decimal £, weigh goods in grams and Kg, we measure our wood in cm... (stop it!) then of course we measure our beer in pints and our car speed in Mph and I am 5' 9" tall. we gave the world the imperial system and cant entirely give it up.

Tape measures like the Stanley 33-223 are my favorite. It's 3 meters / 10 feet. It has the mm on the lower side, and decimal inches across the top. Being a machinist everything is in decimal form on prints. I rarely use fractional units unless it's doing construction projects with larger tape measures.

I grew up using the Metric system, and as you have said, with my ageing eyes I have to scrounge around for my glasses to find the mm (they're normally purchased atop my head and only found there after a few minutes of searching...) However, in my normal day job, we purchase imported equipment from USA, so I have had to get familiar with the Imperial system. The problems I find is that some of the equipment imported has an American Chassis (Imperial) and a Japanese Engine (Metric), trying to get my Mechanics to understand the difference between a 13mm, and a 1/2" spanner is quite a task, (not to mention that I need to double up the size of my toolbox to contain both Metric and Imperial tools and don't get me started on all those different bolt/thread sizes...). Woodworking is a little easier, but our local sawmills still use Imperial units when sawing timber and then they just convert the (") to the nearest (mm) so that a standard 2" x 4" will be 51 x 101mm, However, the actual size is about 52 x 106mm. After planning (PAR) planks would be 38 x 94mm, which is no longer a 2 x 4...

Steve, I think if our lumber was sold in MM... You would see a lot more people use the metric system. I just wish they would sell lumber for what it is.... Don't call it a 2x4 when it isn't, don't sell you a 3/4" sheet of plywood when it isn't. But I guess the rack wouldn't look appealing with a bundle of 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" laying there. Lol

With all due respect to Mr. Ramsey and every other maker I have ever watched on YT, this discussion is one that never really needs take place. I do however, appreciate Steve's positive and open outlook on all things he discusses. Born in 1966 in Canada, I grew up with both systems in my life. Debating the merits of one or the other is an endless loop here on RU-vid and other forums. I can comfortably work with either in the shop or daily life. If people choose to argue over a system, that is their prerogative. But woodworking, especially here on YT, is a global community of like minded folk. How many people have watched a video here without any vocal narrative? Woodworking can transcend language barriers. There is no reason that units of measurement should be a barrier. If a project in a video or a "foreign" magazine catches your interest, the worst thing would be to ignore it or berate the creator merely because the ruler has "those" markings on it, no matter where you are from. There are many creative and inspiring makers all over the world. My advice? Learn from all of them. We have much to share.

Way back in the late 70s I worked in northern Canada for a Japanese mineral exploration company. I was in charge of building the camp: mostly 2x4 frames for large canvas tents. I had to explain the process to the nerdy Canadian university students on their summer jobs and to the Japanese geologists. I was amazed at how quickly the Japanese science types picked up on the imperial system that we were using. Maybe it was all the abacus training they'd had as kids, but they very quickly became adept at dividing things like 13 7/8 inches in their heads. I think they found the whole thing quite exotic.

I'll just stick with rods and cubits, since they worked so well for Noah.

Imperial measurements are no SI units, they're officially defined with the metric system. There's a physical 'metre' and a physical 'kilo'. There's no such thing for any imperial unit. The metric system is already universally used, even in the USA, but Americans keep the imperial units for reasons of emotion, nostalgia and simply what they're used to since their childhoods. Calculating is without a doubt easier in metric units. I as a European would not like to convert imperial units to other imperial units. In Europe, if I purchase wood, it's usually that I purchase shelves. Then I buy 3 metre (9 feet 107⁄64 inches) long shelves, 25 cm (9.8 inches) wide and each 0.8 mm (0.031 inches) thick. I'm happy with the metric system it allows me to make calculations easily in my head, without the need to write measurements down. If I think of 9 feet 107⁄64 inches and I have to cut that into two pieces then I have absolutely no idea whatsoever how to do that in imperial measurements. I would fail.

Your understanding of metric and explanation of its deficiencies tell me that you do not understand it well enough. I feel you are still trying to apply it to imperial ways of thinking.

The middle measurement between a centimeter and a meter is a "decimeter" but usually it's used as "10 cm increments" "about 30cm" = "about 3 decimeters". Also we usually use "Halves" like "50 cm" is "Half a meter", "15 cm" is "Half 30 cm" (30 cm is the most common length of a "school ruler"), and quarters of a meter (25 cm)

A long time ago my teacher explained to me that plans usually are in a single unit of measurement (e.g millimeters) in order to prevent errors and makes the plan simpler to understand. When doing this you state the unit of measurement on the plan once and put just the plain numbers on the drawing which makes it much more readable. Additionally the user does not need to convert between various units. What unit of measurement you choose is up to you and depends on the accuracy you need. Use a unit were you won't need to display many decimal places (e.g. not 1.344m but 1344mm). If you are always convert from imperial, you might want to use millimeters most of the time because of the odd numbers after the conversion. To make the metric plans more pleasant you could adjust them to feel more "natural" (e.g. 70mm or 80mm instead of 76.2mm

Aaaand you just kicked a hornets nest. I love it.

I'm from Europe and I'm used to the metric system. However, we learned how much an inch is and that there are 12 inches in a foot, But once I need to convert 9/32 of an inch to metric, I'm lost. I've no problem with miles but I don't like that there are land-miles and sea-miles. (air-miles are the same length as land-miles). What I don't understand is why classic tripods for photo- and videocameras (and the threaded holes in those cameras) are 1/4" and not in metric. Adapting something there is a pain because 1/4" threaded rod is not easily accessible.

I often have conversations with people on this subject. I use actual linear measurement on a daily basis. My work, hanging works of art, involves addition, subtraction, multiplication and division of distances. I use the imperial system in most cases. Ten can be divided by itself, two and five. Twelve can be divided by itself, two, three, four and six. A typical task, for me, is to arrange a number of pictures of different widths evenly spaced across a wall and centred as a group. The method I use to calculate this is to subtract the combined width of the frames from the length of the wall then divide by the number of gaps. I can then decide the size of spaces between the pictures, leaving a wider space at either end. All I have to do then is to add the end space to half the width of the first picture in order to establish its mid-point. After that I just proceed in the same way, measuring from the inside edge of the first frame to the middle of the next, adding the width of the gap to half the width of the frame. This is quite easy to calculate mentally. I would need a calculator and a magnifying glass if I were to use the metric system. Inches and feet are also much easier to see on a tape-measure at a distance in variable light situations and are much easier to divide. Both systems have their merits but, as I always say, "anyone who says 'metric is superior' probably works at a desk."

An European here. I don't do much woodworking myself but I do like watching woodworking videos (and related subjects). That being said, whenever I go to our own versions of Home Depot (or whatever), the measurements are made mostly in milimeters. Some things are measured in centimeters and a few in meters, only those that have more than one meter in whatever the dimension. Decimeters is something that nobody uses because it kind of doesn't make any sense and would overcomplicate the information with no extra precision. Take into consideration that the unit to begin with is not the milimeter but the meter. When we learn the metric system, we begin with the meter, and then we learn how to go smaller or bigger. And that is the only time in our lives that we use decimeters. When it comes to real life, most of the measurements we make are in the range of a few meters at most. If we had to always say the decimeters, that would mean that every measurement we do would consist of X meters, Y decimeters and Z centimeters, and if we were going for extra-precision, M milimeters. That is kind of too long to express and sounds confusing. On the other hand, when measuring something, there's this tendency for "two digits after the comma are enough for precision", so when dealing with meters, your 6 foot 1 inch (more or less the same as me btw) "translates" quite well as 1,85, therefore "one eighty five". And if it were "1,8", although in some other cases it would be usual to say "one comma eight" (that's another thing, some use comma, some use point), when talking about length it would kind of make sense to rather say "one comma eighty", even when that extra zero adds no precision. All in all, it just makes more sense.

I was taught too use both. I don't worry about it.....

really doesnt matter, but metric is way more easy to do in your head... it can be difficult if you have to work with different sized tools in imperial land though.

As an Architect of 'certain years' I grew up using imperial measurement but converted to SI (metric) in early '70s when the UK went metric. My first job in a building company was to check a drawing of a building that was over 300ft long as the guys on site couldn't set the windows and panels of brickwork out as dimensioned on the drawing. It took me numerous attempts to get the same answer twice as the numbers were in feet, inches 1/8s", 1/4s", 1/2s" etc. even though I was very proficient in adding fractions and multiples of 12! I could have managed the same exercise in metric in minutes. Today I have conversations with people mixing up metres, millimetres (NEVER centimeters!) feet inches, acres and hectares, I do draw the line at roods and pecks though! Use whatever measurement is comfortable to envisage the final article - 100mph is better than 160kph but a 3mm tolerance over 3 meters is easier than 1/8th inch over 10 ft?

when measuring in metric and need 8mm you go back 2mm from the next cm mark, also lets say 6mm is one over from the taller line which is the 5 mm mark, this way you never have to go more then 2 of those small lines up or down the line. and that can be done easily with no glasses at all.

You've made some very interesting and valid points here. Thanks for the video ! What you said definitely did ring some bells. I live in India, and we basically use both whenever we want, and I do find myself using the metric system for larger measurements and the imperial system for things like height, because that's what I can think in for the relevant scales. I think the conclusion here is that we need to either popularise the decimeter or convert the imperial system into a base 10 system

Metric just makes more sense.

Hi I was a setting out engineer in the UK marking out where buildings are to be put. This had to be very accurate +/-5mm over 10metres or more. Even though I was taught only the metric system when at school on site I would give instructions to fellow workers in both metric and imperial. I would start by telling them to move so many metres then go to feet then inches as the got closer and finally mm for accuracy. It shows both systems have good and bad points

Steve, one of the many benefits of Metric is we don't need fractions any more. And when I first graduated as a Civil Engineer in Australia we designed and set out roads in feet and 1/10ths of feet. We needed decimals for ease of design, but then had to convert back to inches for contractors, a nightmare. Having grown up with imperial and then moved to metric in 1972 I can only say there is really no comparison. Relating to woodworking - I'm rebuilding my study and presently making a new set of bookcases. Adding dimensions to determine shelf heights to fit the space is easy mental arithmetic, in fractions it would be a nightmare, and not even easy with a calculator

Hi Steve we use mm in the UK now i have used imperial and have no qualms in saying mm is better its easier to add up ans is better to convey to someone else period john

“Do you know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in Paris?”.... :)

Hi, Steve! I'm an architect from Argentina and we use the metric "metro" for all construction, but, in woodworking, we use imperial "pulgadas" (inches) for thicknesses and metric for lengths. Regarding the 5 1/2 = 1676,4 mm issue, we tend to design in round numbers by 5 units, so in that case would be 165 cm or 1,7 m (we leave millimetres to more technical stuff), unless you have a specific space to fill. It's funny that the Empire that invented the system no longer exists nor uses the imperial system.

I like your idea of a 2mm indicator on measuring devices. There could be a shorter 1mm line in between.