MG5 v VW ID.3 v Hyundai Kona Electric - Which is our real world miles per £ winner? / Electrifying 

I was out and about with a friend yesterday. She needed a bio break so we stopped to deal with her needs and have a coffee. I plugged the car in on arrival and 17 mins later we were on our way..Enough juice to cover the trip home and no time lost.. People you’re overstating the importance of fast charging. I have a Kona and the charge averaged 55 KW/H it was still enough to put 16KWH in the car in 17 mins and gain me about 125km more range. (78 miles). I repeat the charging cost me no time whatsoever!!

@@21bCreations I have had an electric car for 5 years and stopped using it on long trips altogether. The charging infrastructure in the UK is hopelessly unreliable and with years of experience i don't trust it. I now use my Mercedes diesel E Class for long distance driving, with a range of over 600 miles with no hassle, anxiety or the risk of needing a flat bed and leave my electric car for around town and short journeys, the only place it excels. The speed of rapid charging is important but more important is having an infrastructure that actually works and there is enough of for everybody to use when they want fault free.

@@stevezodiac491 it’s seems that I live in a paradise called Switzerland where infrastructure really isn’t an issue. Across the border in Germany it’s just as good. Neighbouring France is a lot sketchier.. I hope the UK is not as bad as you’re implying, as we intend to visit and need to get around quite a bit…

@@21bCreations it is that bad and generally when you find a charger it is only 50 kw if you are lucky to find one that is working and not iced or in use. Scotland North of Inverness is the worst I have found, with unrepaired chargers and Tesla have no charge sites north of inverness whatsoever, hopeless. I would rent a diesel while you visit, if I were you. Scotland's Highlands is the most attractive area of the UK but not electric car friendly.

@@21bCreations I respect Steve’s view, but this is to an extent a matter of perspective and personal use pattern. We have a Kona which we mostly charge at home - more convenient and cheaper. The infrastructure has improved immensely in the last few years, but there is more to do especially regarding reliability of chargers. If you have a vehicle that genuinely produces 250+ miles of range - many people will rarely need rapid charging and can use supermarkets for top ups (often free). Really Long trips are best when planned - using Zap Map or similar - always charge before there is a desperate need, allowing for contingencies.

Yep

Like, say, having a contactless debit card reader?

Isn't that pretty much every charger these days? Thought they were pretty much all contactless .

If someone would pay me to drive id3 or id4, i wouldn't. Just can't live with so bad piano plastic over all. Only worse brand by build quality , than VW is Tesla.

Btw, the MG is also the most suited one for families or people who need more space in the trunk. The other two just can't compete... The MG5 should rather be compared to the id.4 from this perspective...

Yeah definitely bigger not even comparable. But is it a better package uhmmmm no so sure. We have the kona and bro in law has mg5 as a taxi. And to be fair both great. But Hyundai is the winner in how the car handles I reckon.

Unfortunately though having owned an mg I can tell you they are terrible,

Mine aint, @@Trevelyan1971

​@@mschmiedelthis is why I'm getting one - I wanted a decent sized family car with low enough miles and enough warranty on the battery left to cover a 3yr loan period. Plus over 200 miles range for the odd hiking trip in the lakes. MG5 kept coming up with the best price for that. If it's a £1 difference using a fast charger for 100 miles, that's nothing. Doing 20,000 miles a year that's a £200 difference in running costs for a car with double the boot space. Especially if you usually charge at home where the difference will be pence. You can also offset that against the lower second hand cost of the car.

But most driving being under 50 miles/day makes the test fairly unnecessary since they can all do that on the worst of days. One needs enough range to get to a good place and after that good efficiency and charge range if you go on many longer trips.

The usage in the car is correct. If you have a 64kwh battery and drive the car to 0%, the onboard meter would show exactly that usage. You just need more energy to fill the 64 kwh battery back up. It's the same with pc parts. If you have a gpu that is advertised at 250W usage, that's the energy it pulls, not the total energy the power supply uses to deliver those 250W.

@@Psi-Storm - that's all true, but the efficiency of charging the battery in the car makes what it costs you, like the energy cost of running your PC is determined by the efficiency of its power supply. Note that a higher efficiency PC PSU not only draws less electricity, but generates less heat and in summer that means you spend less on air-conditioning. So the real world, real cost aspect here is that it takes the efficiency of charging the car into account too. Another thing, aside, is the car's advertised maximum kW charge power. It may advertise to be able to handle up to 100kW charge power but what you get at the charge station depends on what the station wants to give you.

It's still a cost to the end user which is what they were primarily discussing.

@@StuartWooster I was referring to the calculation they did as to what m/kWh the cars were achieving, obviously the cars will have done a little bit better than their "scientific calculations".

@@mrmuds8624 That's what happens when he's not wearing his lab coat Haha

It has, if they started at 80% and then drove and recharged back to 80% including all the losses then the figure on the charger is the total including all the losses (which is the difference between what the cars are showing and what the charger is showing).

@@scottwills4698 yeah but none of those cars show how many kWh they have received during a session. The figures they quoted are from the charger. If the cars were showing how many kWh they have received during a session and they used that figure, then it wouldn't be an issue.

WLTP doesn't include air con or cabin heating. You can just read up on the cycle, it's measured in a temperature controlled environment on a roll test bench.

@@Psi-Storm A shame it doesn’t include air con or heating. Most people drive with one of them or both on.

All true unless you can't charge at home.

@@robsmith1a which is night and day different with street prices c 30p/kw and 5p at home..... Nearly as bad as hoppy water (beer) costing 60p ex brewery and nr £5 at a pub....cant think y pubs struggling for customers - village pub tried to charge me £25 for (not the largest offered) fish and chips other day! UK pricing is simply Mad! (dont start on homes....)

70% of UK citizens have no charging possibility at home (no garage,appartements). Waky,waky you dimwits. And fast charging costs more than filling it up with gasoline. In fact 50% more. The fetishist have taken over public spaces. Enough.

I've seen a few car review channels that do this, and it really triggers me! :-)

The mobile phone driving law specifically excludes walkie-talkies, but there is the general "driving without due care" which may apply

Yes, I noticed that door trim through that entire segment. So glaringly obvious, why had it left the factory like that or not been corrected before handing the car to the channel??

What about loss in value over time? Most people sell their cars on, at some stage

The MG5 is an amazing vehicle for the price.

@@bigbullstony43 Agree, had mine since May.

Agree the MG5 is great value, but many drivers will lease. For whatever reason the lower purchase price of the MG doesn’t seem to be reflected in the leasing rates, so the choice may not always be so clear cut.

My Mg works out loads cheaper than my old ice vehicle. So I'm in front even if my payments are a lot more.

Also the MG is the most practical. The Kona the least as it's tiny inside! For a family the cost of purchase and size will be enough to sway it the MG's way.

Until the big T halves its prices again, like they did 5 years ago

It might be, but the western car mfrs aren't going to just roll over. In my view Chinese stuff will be budget & niche, rather than mainstream. I'm a farmer & in 2012 there was a Chinese pickup brought onto the UK market. It was supposed to be the 'game changer' etc. It hasn't stood the test of time. Actually, it's a poor workhorse & has been beset with reliability problems. You could buy one for a song now. The only Chinese stuff that's really good quality is where it's produced in a joint enterprise with a western mfr. Think iPhone etc.

@@hughmarcus1 I remember when Japanese motorbikes we're viewed as being 'crap'. Then almost overnight, the British motorcycle industry was wiped out. Not so much here but definitely in the US, the first Korean cars were written off as 'crap' but then they just went from strength to strength. I think it will be the same for Chinese EVs. Try as they might, VW, Stellantis & the others will all struggle to compete against Chinese EVs on price & it's hard to argue that purchase price isn't THE critical factor in buying an EV.

​@@MrSensible2oddly same thing with guitars - in the late 60s Japan started making cheap copies of Gibson and Fender guitars, and they got laughed at. Instead of continuing to churn out crap they quickly raised their standards. Nowadays a 1970s Japanese-made Tokai or Burny is an absolute beast of a guitar and will go toe-to-toe with any Gibson.

Yep, should have done a round trip back to Braintree - 214 miles according to Google Maps.

Indeed. Kona battery needs to hit 26C to get the full 77kW. It probably did while they were scoffing doughnuts!

Agree I have the most recent Kona and it drops 20 miles when you hit the heat button, now this is largely the algorithm assuming the heater will be left on for the whole journey, so the actual loss when warming the cabin intermittently is around 10 miles, also you can keep warm with the heated seat and steering wheel that don't draw much power. I got my Kona was an ex demo bargain and I didn't discover the lack of heat pump until later, Im wondering if I can get a heat pump fitted at a Hyundai garage for next winter?

VW sell all other ID.3s with a "Ginny not included" sticker on the window...

ID3 is the best with or without Ginny.

How much would it roughly cost from home charging to do 100 miles? Their comparisons seemed bizarre as they paid service station prices, I’d never fill my diesel or petrol cars at a service station, I’d come off a motorway and find a normal priced petrol station, are there cheaper public charges EV owners can use?

@@gregcooper2719 I'm in Ireland and I use the night rate electricity. It will roughly cost just under 3 euro or 2.50 stg for 100 miles. It works out a little less but I've rounded the figs up very slightly

@@johnmorgan8152 thank you. That’s amazing. So 600 miles is about £15, cost me £80 to fill my diesel car yesterday and it will do 575-625 miles on that… if only I could afford an EV!

@@gregcooper2719 Those Gridserve/Electric Highway locations are 30p/kWh and are some of the cheapest rates even at service stations. Instavolt are 40p/kWh. Ionity 69p/kWh. I pay 5.5p per kWh at home for 5 hours from 8.30pm and get over 5 miles per kWh with my Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh, so only approximately 1p per mile, so £1 for 100 mile.

@@gregcooper2719 my MG zs Ev costs me £2.40 per 44kW( cheap evening rate)and will do 175 miles,so equivalent of 420 MPG.👍😊

They would but they are also more expensive and real world tests suggest the Ionia 5 isn’t that efficient at higher speed (Bjorn Nyland was hitting 2.5miles/kWh at 120kph, which is about 75mph.in comparison the model 3 long range was about 3.6m/kWh in similar conditions). I guess whether this matters will depend on how much Hugh speed driving you do.

that just got a battery recall 😐 edit: 4 may 2018 to 2 march 2020 so you are clear.

I think my 28 could have won that (would have been tight starting at 80% but think it would have been possible - and it would have only used 20kWh or so from the battery - fast to charge back up. Perhaps 20 minutes?

@@FFVoyager 107 miles on 80%! Hmmm. I could do it, but not at 70.

@@duneplodder I'd sit behind some oversized SUV and take the tow! 108 miles is 20kWh or so. Just about do-able;

Depending on how much it costs to rapid charge.

Look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5. 10-80 in 18 minutes and it has a total 300 mile range. Base trim isn't available yet.

@@ftb2772 For sure - let's assume, though, that the motorway service stations are going to be expensive (like they are for ICE); are mainly for road warriors, those going on infrequent longer trips, or those who can't plan around having to use them; are going to need to be quick because there's not much more to do than go to the loo, or get some pricey food/drink. Other places away from the motorway can be a bit cheaper and maybe up there with the charge speed, or a lot cheaper but more leisurely. I was thinking more 2030, so there's time for the bigger picture to play out.

@@CloudrakYeah, I was thinking of the 800v cars out there - they are the first that seem to move past range anxiety. Big, though - One was stuck next to us in the Taunton-Bristol parking facility called the M5 - looked good, but made the Fiesta next to it look like a scale model of a real car - it looked about as big as a Jag F-Pace nearby!

@@examinerian yeah fair point. Can always charge up at a supermarket sometimes for free but takes much longer. Its the Kona for me at the moment if i went EV with that 300mile range. I travel 60mile round trip to work + additional mileage at work. Currently keeping close eye on my mileage per trip see if i ever punch 250miles in one go. I do cover 220miles on trips to the lakes for a days hike. Ideally dont want tobe having to charge at pricey stations en route but confident this wont be a problem with a Kona.

No - it's legal. We checked!

If we are talking about new cars that Vauxhall Astra Diesel range starts at £19000 (and goes up to £26k). The MG5 estate (as my wife is a nurse) I can get from £20,599. Even at list they start from £25k. New EV prices have been too high compared to ICE - but they are falling now (as will second hand prices 2-3 years afterwards). I run my cars into the ground - usually ten years of use. Overall ownership costs would be lower for me with the EV (nor would I want to drive a diesel as most of our mileage is in towna and suburban areas). Also I don't see diesel prices doing anythign but going up in the future, certainly faster than electricity prices will. As you'll realise, the main cost issue that swings running cost in favour of an EV on is that in normal daily use the EV will charge for peanuts at home overnight on off peak electiricity (5-10p per KWH). Now that only applies to the 2/3rds of UK car owners who have off street parking, but the majority of people who are going to be buying new cars are in that bracket. I currently run two petrol cars - but I only do 200 mile+ journeys . a few times a year. Using an EV instead I might end up using a motorway or 3rd party paid charger half a dozen times a year - for maybe a tenth of my average 8000 miles of travel. So if 7200 of those miles cost about £100 (which is about right for off-peak home charging) and the other 800 miles (on motorway fast chargers) cost about £60 that's still only £160 fuel cost for 8000 miles. Or 2p a mile. No diesel or petrol car is doing that Even at super high MPG (70+) you'll be spening £700 - and most ICE cars wull be spending well over £1000 for those 8000 miles. To be fair, I don't need a new car at the moment (the cars are 7 and 8 yeras old currently and running fine), but when I do buy my next car it will certianly be an EV.

Ouch! :D

But that's not what happened here. They drove the same range, but the Kona needed the longest back to 80%. A problem is that they only drove 100 miles. They might have dropped to 40% charge. The id3 and even the Kona would run laps around the mg5 if they started charging at 5-10% instead of 40%. The Kona also isn't more efficient than the id3 usually, especially at higher speeds (75+mph), where Kona's efficiency falls of a cliff.

And if it’s £25.000 can VW sell their ID.3 at £30,000?

Is the Tesla Model 2 actually going to be a thing? There have been rumours for ages, but still nothing concrete...

@@rolandrohde announced by Musk with details - global car, designed and made in china, $25,000 starting - but timescales are unknown. Maybe late 2022, more likely 2023

@@rolandrohde Tesla China Giga factory has been doing test builds, and design. There is an expectation that something will be seen in Q4 this year, and it will go on sale first in China/Europe before USA probably Q1/2 next year, since the USA is only interest in massive trucks.

​@@peakproofukand here we are in Aug 2024 and still no sign of it 😂

Yes, I noticed that too.

LOL

Yes, that's how we ended up with these 3. They offer the most miles per £ of any electric car on sale (WLTP range / price).

@@Electrifyingcom thanks for getting back to me. It will be interesting to see the same test when these cars are ten years old and maybe within the price range of lower income, low mileage drivers 🙂

Is there a link to that data?

@@bryandavies6074 personal experience, my last diesel (1.9 fiat) would easily do 65-70mpg on motorway, my current 1.4 alfa will make 40+

@@craighopkins4954 I have personal experience of diesels in motorways and over long distance driving too. Many people do. It's only collective data that makes for a reliable comparator. The same goes for motorway driving. A cruise down a dry rural motorway on a quiet early Sunday morning isn't going to give the same result as a crawl around the rush hour M25. They had crawl traffic over part of their route.

Definitely. The Kona has a totally overpriced list price and terrible option packages. You have to buy the trend package for 2700€ to even be allowed to buy Navigation for 1400€. In Germany it comes out to 36500€ after rebates vs the id3 77kwh ProS with acc and comfort package costing 34000€. The id3 pro 58kwh costs "only" 27000€ with those packages. You would have to get at a 15% dealer discount on the Kona for the car to make sense.

In the case of the ID.3, until very recently there was just this one particular colour available - and five shades of grey. And that one colour is not for everyone. It really comes down to taste. Even if I like it now, will I still like it in 3 year's time, or in 10 years? The almost-black-but-not-quite manganese grey doesn't look as exciting in comparison, but you can't really go wrong with it.

@@simonbrunner3062 I was born in the 40s & if you look down a street now the cars look really boring by comparison!

The Kia e-Niro was my retirement present to self back in March 2019. We live in France and have covered 47,000 km since then. I chose it over the Kona as it is more spacious and just preferred the look and interior. Recently did a 320 km trip to the Auvergne which involved lots of steep climbs and descents. So far it look like a good long term bet.

E-Niro for practicality, Soul EV for driving enjoyment. Tried both, and went for the Soul (had it 15 months now) and love it (not used a public charger once in 9,000 miles). Kia EV4 could be an option if you could wait till 2022/3 !

@@stevee3186 I think the Soul EV would be perfect for me. I'm retired and the insurance company gives me a discount for age, and also for driving less than 5,000 kilometres in a year. I could easily charge at home.

Actually, (just thinking), if I kept my old Hyundai Accent for longer journeys which I hardly ever do, and had a Citroen Ami for around town, I'd be using the Ami almost 100% of the time.

@@dlittlester I used to run two cars before retirement, a Yeti and an SLK 200 AMG (to take the edge off a depressing job). The Soul EV is just as much fun as the SLK (it also feels quicker) and almost as practical as the Yeti. When you think of a drive out (which you will do more often, I guarantee you), fuel costs are totally out of the equation (£1.40 for 110 miles of range on Octopus GO overnight). It would have to be a very special 'ICE' car to take it out on a journey in preference to the Soul. But, if your're serious about the AMI... why not also look at a Smart Four two EQ? They are usually fully loaded... and there is the Cabrio as well (from a ex Smart Roadster owner of 11 years)! Steve

That’s the first thing I noticed 😆 I’m assuming it’s because the car has earned a reputation for a ‘non VW like’ cheap interior trim that so many are looking for evidence of that? And quite a few find it to be so apparently.

1) A few can do 300 miles. More arriving all the time. 2) Depends on where you charge. 5p at home, up to 69p on public chargers. Like petrol prices, charge prices vary. 3) Some electric cars can tow. We have a list of them www.electrifying.com/blog/knowledge-hub/can-you-pull-in-an-electric-car-our-guide-to-the-best-model-to-help-you-get-hitched

Would there be significant charging losses on DC? You'd lose a tiny bit to heat, but it should be pretty minimal compared to using the onboard charger.

@@TheRichardHonor yes there is. That's the difference you see here. kWh charged VS BC. Mostly it is 3-5% estimated.