MGTV Ep: 00011 Josh's Top 5 Affordable "Low Cost" Marginal Gains 

Rick, yes, latex takes some extra care in the setup, rim tape and installation, but is certainly worth it in the long run, for the feel alone , I'd say worth it, and when you factor in the efficiency, even more so!! Yes, the socks were a real eye opener for me.. we literally re-ran the tunnel test as I was SURE something was broken the first time I saw it! There will be a couple more of these examples in future Top 5 episodes, all very fun. Thanks for watching and please share us with your riding partners! - Josh

Where are you located?

@@SILCAVelo Victoria B.C. Canada.

Was just about to say how much I liked the music...

You're very welcome!

Did you ever put a Sock on with wet feets? Or a latex glove with wet hands. I think the Benefit is very very marginal

@@anhduytran7981 yep, I wear socks during triathlons. If you turn them 75% inside out pre race and then in T1 you can just poke your toe in and then "milk" the sock onto your foot and lower leg and its a walk in the park, you never have to slide the material over wet skin. With standard cotton socks it takes about 5 sec per foot.

Socks take time to put on. especially on wet skin - I suspect that's a deal breaker during transitions.

Try Shimano 12 speed chain on 11sp. drivetrain. You would be astounded, but first I recommend to read the thread on Weight Weeenies about it. Ur drivetrain will be totally silent, same shifting and longer chain life, combined with SILCA secret chain lube, total silence. Try it you won’t regret it

Ok if there isn't a team car following you. Pinhead skewers more aero than standard. Delta far cheaper. Like to go fast but no team car will ever follow me!

1.The Wipperman is a really beautiful and amazing piece of kit. I use Wipperman quick links on all my chains, but the DA chain shifts a bit better and runs about 0.6 watt faster. 2.A waxed DA chain can run sub 4 watt loss on 250 and a chain with White Lightning dry lube can run at 12w+ loss after just an hour of riding it. A squeaky dry chain will run at 15+ watts of loss depending on what it had been lubed within initially and how much is left, and a totally dry, stripped chain will run at 25+ watts of loss! 3. Silicone can work and we used to do it for key events like the TdF way back in the day. To really work properly, the tire/rim widths have to be equal or better, obey the rule of 105.. unfortunately, this also adds Crr to the system which can offset some of the gains if not all of them. 4. This is a great one for TT or if you have a team follow car!

SILCA Velo Fantastic detail and insight, particularly on the stripped/almost dry chain! Thanks Josh!

We are working on a show about bearing losses now, but your specific situation is a little bit real and a little bit placebo! So the total losses from a subset are at most a couple of watts.. which is why at best, ceramic bearings can save about 0.8 watts when compared to REALLY poor hub bearings. So you King hubs probably absorb 2-3 watts at baseline and as they get dirty drift up to maybe 3-4 watts, but the clutch mechanism is much more sensitive.. it might absorb 3-5 watts when coasting and then when dry or dirty as much as 7-8 watts.. so cleaning and regressing the clutch can make a really notable difference in feel. To put all of it in perspective though, removing ALL hub frictional losses combined is only about equivalent from moving from a Continental Gatorskin to a GP5000 rear tire.. and moving from butyl to latex inner tube in a rear tire is similar to elminating ALL hub bearing drag.. so the placebo piece of this is the sound. Whenever I rebuild my hubs or BB, I feel exactly the same way.. the sound just makes you feel so unbelievably fast! - Josh

Agreed, TPU are great for spares, they're just slower and a bit more fragile for regular use.

Thanks! We might have to bring that one back, they were limited edition and sold out very quickly!

We have a video in the works on this now, but I'll say: mostly snake oil, and also that I can be a fan of snake oil..

@@SILCAVelo looking forward to your video on it!

Good luck trying to put on aero socks when your feet are wet... They are so tight, you need to remove every microgram of water from the feet before you manage to slide them. And even then, they take forever to put on. I don't know if it might still be a win, but I would expect several *minutes* of extra time at T1.

@@luc4662 I just did Ironman Kazakstan and used Silca aero socks. Knitted socks and instantly pull on, no delay. 2nd in AG and qualified for the worlds so I’ll take it as a win. Might have more to do with the silly amount of training I did though. Hahaha

@@scpromark Good to know ! I should try the Silca socks.

Did you know that of the 11 sentences in this comment, 9 of them have no subject or no verb? I actually have no idea what you’re trying to say

And because it looks a bit silly IMHO ;-) Josh

@@SILCAVelo That's true. But, um, to be fair, isn't that also true for most of the stuff we wear?

The chain is most likely not compatible.

Paris-Dakar 959.. the OG (original gravel) IMHO - Josh Also, in stock right now (as is our BMW 2002 shirt): silca.cc/collections/soft-goods

Our testing has shown the YBN SLA110-Ti to start out about 0.4w slower than a DA and then get within 0.2w of matching the DA in speed over the first few hundred miles.. We have also seen it get within 10% of DA longevity, but not beat it. I grant you that the YBN Ti is a fantastic and really stunning piece of kit considering the materials involved and that it weigs about 35 grams (14%) less than the DA chain, but it also can't be considered for this video as it runs ~$200, more than double our $100 limit.

@@SILCAVelo i only use them because i wax, so I feel like I'll get my moneys worth out of the chains!! Haha the testing i saw was done by zero friction. I'm sure testing chains and drivetrains is hard enough to where there's going to be some variances between tests.

This is almost true in pure rolling resistance terms, but remember that latex tubes are more resistant to both punctures and pinch flats than standard butyl tubes, while lightweight butyl tubes are disproportionately MORE likely to puncture or pinch flat than standard. If you want to go fast and keep punctures to a minimum, latex or tubeless are your best options as I'd rather inflate my tires before each ride (should be doing this anyway..) than deal with flats. - Josh

Personally, I'd just use TPU tubes.

For our tape lineup, we have different texture and thickness for each model, but all are made from the same exotic foam and TPU which is incredibly cushioning while being low damping (foam developed for NIKE 2 hour marathon shoes..) and the TPU top later is the same stuff you find in Oakley nose and earpieces, so very soft with almost equivalent wet/dry grip.. so between models you are just getting a different thickness and look, but same tech

Considering that latex tubes are more resistant to puncture flats and pinch flats than butyl tubes, it will always faster to run the latex tube. They can also be run with sealant in them for key events and will seal better when used with sealant than a butyl tube used with sealant. Really the only downside of latex tubes is that they take considerably more care when installing as they are so easy to pinch between the rim and tire, and also require nicely fitted rim tape as they can really get into all the little nooks and crannies otherwise. But overall, 5 extra minutes installing at the outset will pay dividends for years afterwards.

You should be checking your tire pressure before every ride anyway.

So tubolito tubes are more or less equivalent to butyl or light butyl (for the super light version) which is to say that weight doesn't necessarily equal fast. I like them for spares as they are so small.. but for pure speed, you definitely want latex or the top 2-3 models of tubeless. - Josh

This is also a good point.. tuning pressures before each ride depending on terrain/surface conditions can save you almost as many watts as fast tubes or tires.. - Josh

I have this question too. Does the dampening effect of the future shock decrease effeciency?

Probably because tubeless is so much more practical on larger tires. Get a flat with 23mm tires and they'll be off the bead before the sealant works. Then you'd have to put a tube into that slimy skinny tire mess!

The SILCA latex tubes work well up to 34mm and wider than that, I'd recommend tubeless+sealant as those tires are getting ever faster and the sealant works so much better at those lower pressures. - Josh

I have used latex inner tubes for over 20 years now. They offer such a great smoothness while riding and low rolling resistance in addition. In only two occasion tubes exploded due to my bad mounting. Ever since I shake latex tubes in a plastic bag with baby powder before mounting, do not use levers for mounting and take really really dillgent care that the tube is within the tire there was not problem any more. Pressure loss is significantly reduced with 30-60ml of Stans sealnant (23-35mm tires). I have very few punctures (10-15.000km/y). Repairing is easy and durable with TipTop patches if done properly. Be very cautious with even a small cut in the tire. Latex is so flexible, it will creep out even of the smallest cut and cause a flat. You have to cover cuts from the inside of the tire! And carefully check your inner rims and rim tapes before mounting!

So are you adding sealant with latex tubes? In btwn the tube & tire? Or inside the latex tube?

That's a great one, but would definitely need the right weather.. 7 hours in Velotoze would not be easy on the feet!!

No, it doesn't. If you look at the data from Tour Magazin or ZeroFriction cycling you see that SILCA hot melt is ~1 watt faster than a MoltenSpeed + RacePowder chain, which makes sense as the race powder can't get inside the chain where you'd really need it to be to reduce friction.

Yeah, they can blow up easily with the heat from braking.

It's safe with a good rim tape that covers the entire tire bed. We recommend 2-3 wraps of tubeless tape which serves as an insulator between the rim and tube.

Tubolito tubes are similar to butyl in terms of Crr performance and the light tubolito tubes are about halfway between butyl and latex in terms of Crr..

It's all about boundary layer thickness and location of the trip zone. For flow on the lower leg, the boundary layer thickness for tripping is about 1mm, and you only need it right in the separation zone, so with hairy legs you have ~1cm long hair everywhere making a big mess of the airflow. Theoretically you could leave 2 thin stripes of leg hair at ~+/-40 degrees of the center of the shin, and then keep those stripes trimes to ~1-2mm max and have a similar effect to aero socks.

@@SILCAVelo like built in aero socks all up the leg then UCI can't ban it??

TP tubes are very light, but don't offer real rolling resistance advantage unless you are using the super thin ones meant only as short term spares. From an overall performance perspective, latex still wins.

We do them in limited runs that tend to sell out pretty quickly! You can get on our mailing list over at www.silca.cc to be notified when new ones come out! Currently have an awesome vintage Molteni team car shirt selling fast

We actually sell them for use as spares.. they are amazingly light and small, so you can fit 2 in the space of a normal tube. However, they are no faster than butyl in terms of rolling resistance so you would be giving up watts compared to latex. We've also found them to have long term issues at the valve stems so would not recommend for daily use.

So good to hear! Smooth, Quiet bikes make me happy! - Josh

But this gain is only a gain when coasting. When pedaling, there's no difference

At the moment TPU tubes are the lightest option, but aren't yet competitive with latex in terms of rolling resistance. Testing we've done on Tubolito tubes shows them to be about halfway between the Crr of latex and butyl making them advantageous for climbing with latex being much faster on the flats.

Yes, they are smaller, but they do exist even at those lower speeds. Also remember that you can ride 14mph into a 10mph headwind and aerodynamically that's the same as riding 24mph with no wind, so airspeed and ground speed are not always equal.

great point. thank you @@SILCAVelo

Wheels are a topic that is currently in the works! Please let me know your questions and thoughts (and please send your friends here to leave their questions and comments) to help guide us as we're working on it!