It's interesting how politics are often viewed by the bulk of atheists. Somehow the liberal camp is viewed as interested in helping the poor and starving while the conservative camp is viewed as not caring about the poor and starving. Individuals can be viewed from their action, but as far as politics, both camps might be interested in helping others, but the suggested way of going about it might look very different.
I am a huge fan of Bart. He was a such a great teacher with so much knowledge. He does, however, speak to me (a non scholar) in language I understand and never speaks down to his lay audience. He makes us smarter. I was so surprised that you gentlemen are 65 and 64 respectively. You both look great.
While I don’t consider myself an atheist. The hardest concept I have with the New Testament morally speaking is eternally punishing finite beings with the biggest X-factor being you lacked or didn’t have faith which by definition is believing in things on spiritual apprehension rather than direct proof. At least that’s how the born-again types interpret it. I’ll acknowledge other denominations aren’t as cut and dry though.
Love listening to Bart Ehrman and reading his books. Love listening to Michael Shermer and reading his books. Love when I get to hear/watch the 2 of them have a conversation together. Great stuff!! Thanks a lot.
The best thing we can hope for from today's technology is the possibility, nay the privilege, of seeing and hearing two intelligent people having a conversation.
@David Anewman Indeed they are not. However, everything we know to be true today was discovered by geniuses. For example, we know what the speed of light is because extremely intelligent people worked it out. An idiot today may not even think that light moves at a certain speed, th question would not even arise in his/her mind. Therefore, although they are not synonymous, truth and intelligence are closely related, just as justice and ethics are.
The "born-again" experience is a wholly emotional one. It can be very powerful and life-changing. The problem for many is, is that emotions change. And so, after a while, the immediacy of the initial "rebirth" loses its power, and one is left with themselves and their minds. Logic and reason begin to ask questions. And, fearing the loss of so much of one's life to reason, one tends to cling to the Bible. Or, one follows these questions of reason, to a personal truth (like Michael and Bart). The Bible-clingers tend to end up fragile and brittle in their understanding, using Bible verses to bolster their opinions, which are born of ego. Faith is supplanted by its weaker cousin, Belief. Trouble is, belief always comes with has its nagging opposite, Doubt. While those who dare to follow reason, while still searching for truth, tend to make it all the way there. The answer lies in consciousness itself. Or more accurately, IS consciousness itself. Even though consciousness is not an "it". Once I personally made it all the way through, I came back to the Bible to see if Jesus knew this truth, and it turns out that he was attempting to teach it to his closest disciples. But they just couldn't grasp it. And therein lies the loneliness of Jesus's life. He filled that loneliness with the joy and spontaneity of children. Christianity is from Paul's ideas and any semblance of Jesus's deeper teachings were left to the mystics and saints. Thankfully, the Gospel of Thomas was unearthed in the 40's and we find that Jesus's message was so very much deeper than "just try to be good, and nice and get along." Paul didn't know Jesus. He never met Jesus. He had his own emotional rebirth experience, and started his own religion, which has little to do with ultimate truth. It is what it is. But it isn't Jesus. Look to the East, where Jesus is revered for his deeper vision, which coincides with Lao Tzu, the Upanishads, Zen, The Kabbalah, J. Krishnamurti, etc. It is only there that one will find everlasting peace and contentment IN THIS BODY, IN THIS LIFE, which is what Jesus was meant to bring about. Heaven is within. It is personal. It is reasonable. It is not swayed by emotion. It is the steady-state of happiness everyone seeks.
Surprised that the Egyptians didn't get a mention. They had some pretty strong views regarding death and afterlife. And I would be interested to know whether the Egyptian idea of post-mortem Judgement was carried over into Christian belief.
I don’t think there’s a strong influence from Egypt on the western Christian tradition. Not saying none existent, but the Greco Roman and of course Judaic traditions are far more influential.
@@HkFinn83 yeah I guess that’s fair he’s talking very specifically to what lead to the Christian version of hell. But I don’t think you can just bypass what the Greeks likely pulled from the Egyptians and other cultures regarding this given how Plato quotes heavily a previous Greek master and went to Egypt and was able to meet with their old priests.
@llengsuch: No doubt Christian beliefs of the afterlife came partly, if not mostly, from the Egyptians. One of my favorite documentaries on RU-vid titled The Egyptian Book of the Dead mentions this.
Thank you for the note. We take all your feedback to heart and are always looking for ways to improve the quality of the show. Michael is currently looking into the possiblity of sending microphones to all our interviewees, but it's a bit challenging to coordinate (especially during the Covid-19 emergency).
I think the problem here is not the microphone but the encoder software's decision to compress the hell out the audio in order to get better video. Maybe there's a setting somewhere to achieve the opposite emphasis.
What a sad 8 journey Bart has had from Christian to Agnostic to Atheist to Antichrist. I remember the fire he once had in his heart to devolving into the joyless empty man he now appears to have become.
Refer to Steven Wienberg about the role of Religions in man's life. ""Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.""
@Spencer Rice Are you implying things have changed ever since. It’s not about divine personal belief which I call it spirituality. Organized religious black-markets is meant here. Dangerous - divisive and destructive.
We are placed here without our consent. We have no choice. We are expected to be grateful for it. No, we are COMMANDED to be thankful for it. And that commander demands our obedience unto death. For something we had no choice over. And if we say no, we are put in a place of eternal suffering. And Christians wonder why we think they've got a screw loose? What kind of a God creates beings just to have someone to worship him? An insecure, needy tyrant.
Many ancients were concerned with being accepted by their ancestors and living with family in the afterlife. Living with the god(s) wasn't the goal. Being rejected by the ancestors meant wandering homeless in the afterlife. Making ancestors happy is the reason for annual grave cleaning and decorating practiced today in Mexico and China.
If you were listening to this, they addressed that. Some people are good and decent but they suffer pretty badly with physical conditions. Others are schmuck b33u😂😅😂3t😂😂😅😅3 😂😅😂😅😅#t😅😅3h😅😅😅#e😅3y😅😅😅😅3 😅😂😅#l😅3i😅😅😅#v😂😅😅😅3e😂😅😅😅😅😅😂😅😅😂😅😅😂333😅😅😂
17:34 thankyou. Excellent interview. This Greek soul stuff (Plato's clear distinct writings on it) so impacted my life choice, it dislodged my atheism, I then became a dualist in the Scientology cult, finally ejecting from Scientology and returning to atheism again today. Atheist, to soul believer, to born again atheist today. Plato bad ramifications still today have trickling effects for those, I'll admit being one, confused enough to chase soul subjects as a career. (Wish I'd have had a discussion like this one, in this podcast, to listen to, before I jumped into a cult like Scientology, which teaches through "past life" pseudo-therapy, and other quackery mental pseudo-therapy, to have the out-of-the-body hallucination and through indoctrination absorb the certainty that one IS the soul, and as being the soul, one can eject out of one's body, having the out-of-the-body experience and thus prove the soul dualist idea by experince---cut to the chase, no, Scientologists cannot eject out of their skulls as they falsely claim the members who follow the scientology stepladder of quackery pseudo-therapy, and exorcism, there's a whole 5 long levels of exorcism Scientologists who stay long enough will be doing, LOL, to learn their soul powers, be able to soul fly, none do, and no powers are gained. All bogus, all protected by religion rights of country's laws. Lawyers are today's smartest minds upkeeping (with high pay that Scientology shells out) the scientology soul flying/powers Scientology scam. ) -ex Scientologist 1975-2003 53:29 Wow! to the next minute or two, that section hits me like a ton of bricks, it makes such good sense, explanation,,,,especially 53:54 Paul's converts had Greek ideas of the soul, wow wow! Explains the amalgamation of Plato's ideas of the soul with Jesus' teachings, through Paul's thereafter early Christian belief shaping. good gosh, wish I'd heard this lecture info when I was in college before rushing off chasing the Scientology current soul-flying/powers-regaining scam movement of today. I so appreciate this talk, thankyou both so much. This deserves this detailed dissection, kudos to you Bart Ehrman. ROFL (rolling on the floor laughing)..... 57:16 "....even the Scientologists know to start with a personality test...." (I'm a former dedicated Scientology staffer, huge props for appreciating this...amazing interview, Shermer your insights are so valuable and appreciated...)
Chuck Beatty A.C. Grayling is good value, informative, engaging and funny, and he's great on getting to the fundamentals of the Bible, Christianity etc, Dawkin's called Plato probably the biggest shit in history I know why he feels that way but I do enjoy his writings, have a great day!!!
I wish Bart would not put all conservatives and Republicans into one box. There are lots of Republicans who care about people society and the Earth. Just like there are lots of atheist who are moral and good people.he is so smart and generally unbiased it always surprises me when he has to go there. Excellent program I enjoyed it.
"There are lots of Republicans who care about people society and the Earth" No they don't. The actions of the Republican party shows they don't. It has taken actions that led people to believe that it is racist, that it cares more about the rich than the poor, and that it cares more about making money than saving the planet. It does not matter if any number of Republicans don't support the actions of the Republican Party if they support the Republican Party regardless of it's actions. Both equate to the same thing. If you had just said that there are lots of conservatives that support people, society, and the earth then I'd agree with you. That is because conservatism is an ideology (and atheism, which you brought up, doesn't even rise to that level). But the Republican Party is an organization. Organizations are best judged by their actions. If you are going to proudly declare your membership in and support of an organization then don't cry foul when people accuse you of the same behavior that they find the organization guilty of. After all, who do you blame for an organization's actions other than it's members?
Actually, you are talking of what some people do to other people, claiming that God said them to do it. This "I just followed orders" argument simply does not work, you are responsible for your acts.
@@dreamweaver9165 I never said what people do to people. I said what god does to people. If you think something that harms people like cancer, floods or any other nonsense, is an "act of god" then your god is an evil bastard. My point is there is no god. Just superstition.
I was referring to James' initial comment, @Outside LookingIn. There are numerous verses in the Bible that could be construed as capricious but I assume you might be explicitly referring to the book of Joshua.
Evidently you overlooked Genesis 6, @Outside LookingIn. Noah was not a drunkard at the time of the flood. That event took place after the flood. I do appreciate you tipping your hand by suggesting that the Bible is fiction. That provides some perspective to your opinion.
Fantastic content once again. Many thanks. Hey, is there any chance of getting Pinker on again. I would love to hear some reason from a master on the current epidemic
The Republican bashing is uncalled for. I have purchased most of Bart's books and I'm also a member of his blog but this nonsense won't dissuade me from continuing with the joy I get from reading and following Bart's scholarship. I have no problem caring for the poor but I also hold the position that the best thing the government can do for people on government assistance is to get them off it. You have the cannot and will not.....focus on the cannot. There are many unbelievers out there who remain practical and understand legal versus illegal.
@Outside LookingIn . They don't realize that they alienate a portion of their audience with unnecessary political banter. However, with a largely atheist audience that would be a minimal amount of people I presume.
@Outside LookingIn I was an Independent for many years because I had the philosophy of vote the person not the party. But over the past 3 years the Democrats have gone batshit crazy so that has gone out the window.
Ya I am atheist and consider myself to be on the left. And I am originally a Mexican immigrant. I literally automatically said out loud to myself "STRAWMAN" when he said the right doesnt care if immigrants starve to death.
The issue in today's world of almost 8 billion, and an ever-increasing takeover of IT, jobs are fewer and income is not meeting the needs of far more...billions more...than those of 60 years ago. The government can not be corporate-run and citizen sustainable. Cause and Effect! We have "eased* ourselves into "erasure:" Socio-economics 101.
You’re not against politics your against politics you don’t like. Republican bashing is completely called for if you hate republicans. Don’t you dummies see the irony of whining about your freedom and free speech while at the same time crying like a baby whenever you hear something you don’t like.
If the Kingdom of Heaven is here on earth, where is god going to put everybody? 8 Billion people now. 100 Billion people dead. Things may get a little crowded.
Its easy for HIM..if he a CREATOR..a creation cannot do that..find god dare claim HE create earth,heaven,hell,human,time,plant,animal,sun,moon,soul,angel,satan etc..that god deserve to be worship.
Skeptic, start producing quality online content. We love you, but the audio and video quality of this is simply terrible. Two Sony A7 with Rode Shotgun Mics - $2000. Please! Mr. Shermer, talk to Sam Harris and ask him how he does it. Please! We crave your ideas! But not like this.
@@teodelfuego You are right, that was a stupid thing for me to say. But Shermer is so awesome, I just wish he would get a decent mic. These RU-vid videos have been the same since before all this. But I was being kinda a jerk. I apologize for my comment. I should have phrased it differently. Thanks, Teo.
I suspect religious thoughts are almost entirely based on our genetic and learned tendencies towards fairness. Other animals exhibit behaviors of fairness, so we should expect humans, with a higher developed cognition to display more complex, emotive behaviors in response to it.
:34:00- you cannot conceive of yourself as dead... You have never known a moment when you did not exist and you never will... you dwell in the eternal now... you are functionally immortal.
@@BakedDrLuny its a point of fact that you can never experience anything but what your own mind creates, that does not mean you alone exist... just that it is a possibility.
@@jiohdi It's something I've always emphasized in my personal worldview. Your post was just the perfect opportunity to steal the best joke I heard this week.
It's not obvious to me why a god would want to be worshiped. I can see why a human being would want to be worshiped. But a god? It seems to me like people just imagined that a god would want the things that a king expected: to be feared, worshiped or loved; and of course to be given offerings.
Some years ago (decades) I was told that to eat meat on Friday was a "MORTAL SIN" and if this were not absolved the guilty soul would burn in hell forever. Entertaining an "impure" (erotic) thought would also merit eternal torture. Now those "offenses" seem to be "venial sins" meriting purgatory but not hell. One could, if cynical, think the changes to be marketing decisions, incited by emptying pews and the rapidly dwindling religious "vocations".
About 30 years ago I mentioned Limbo to a Jesuit priest. He informed me that Limbo was no longer Church doctrine. I asked: "What happened to all those babies?" I don't remember his answer, but it didn't satisfy me and had a sense it didn't really satisfy him either. Or maybe he just didn't feel like getting into a theological discussion. I didn't really want to either. The question I didn't ask was: If this was a doctrine supported by Popes for centuries and the current Pope does not, how can the judgement of the Pope on matters of Church doctrine be infallible?
Very interesting and enjoyable. It does grate though, to hear Bart dismissing Republicans as not caring about the poor or immigrants. Surely it's not that either party is more moral and caring about people, it's just that they have different ideas about the best way to achieve similar goals.
Thoroughly enjoyed it although would have been a bit better if Bart bought or acquired a mic seeing as he does so many podcasts rather than the almost toilet acoustic that we're hearing
Good conversation. I hope Dr. Ehrman will get a better mic for his computer. All religions are man-made. Live and let live, do no harm, and beware of con artists, secular or religious.🙂🙂
I wonder how much Christianity was popularization of some elements of Plato and Orphism which use a popular Hebrew Monotheistic Vehicle to spread the message.
Honest question, book of revelation was written in Greek correct? So I'm curious the earliest Christian's were more gentile than Jew so how does Caeser Nero translation in Hebrew add up to 666 have much significance? The writer was just highly educated in all Hebrew and what not and the majority of Christians wouldn't even pick up on 666 being associated with Nero unless they to were highly educated in Hebrew but why would they be if they were gentile
One could easily surmise Bart's politics, and he's certainly as entitled to his as I am mine, but in the context of this discussion I'd rather he refrained.
Why would religious attempt to be moral if not for hell? Nearly every Western religion use intimidation / fear to coerce moral behavior, which then isn't moral.
Dr Ehrman, Dr Shermer ... have you heard of italian author Mauro Biglino or have you read any of his works? Unfortunately most of his books have not been translated (except for may be one, which by the way was very badly translated) but there are some videos of his conferences with english subtitles. I highly recommend him because he does what Dr Ehrman does but concentrating on the old testament ... and with a big twist. I would like to know what you think. Biglino's methodology is one of "lets pretend that" the authors in the bible told us hitorical truths and lets skim off the froth of theological elaborations and contrived interpretations and see what comes out of it ... and what came out of it is mindblowing ...
“So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothing and left, accompanied by two of his men. They came to the woman at night and said, “Use your ritual pit to conjure up for me the one I tell you.” But the woman said to him, “Look, you are aware of what Saul has done; he has removed the mediums and magicians from the land! Why are you trapping me so you can put me to death?” But Saul swore an oath to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not incur guilt in this matter!” The woman replied, “Who is it that I should bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up for me Samuel.” When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out loudly. The woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid! What have you seen?” The woman replied to Saul, “I have seen one like a god coming up from the ground!” He said to her, “What about his appearance?” She said, “An old man is coming up! He is wrapped in a robe!” Then Saul realized it was Samuel, and he bowed his face toward the ground and kneeled down. Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul replied, “I am terribly troubled! The Philistines are fighting against me and God has turned away from me. He does not answer me - not by the prophets nor by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what I should do.” Samuel said, “Why are you asking me, now that the Lord has turned away from you and has become your enemy? The Lord has done exactly as I prophesied! The Lord has torn the kingdom from your hand and has given it to your neighbor David! Since you did not obey the Lord and did not carry out his fierce anger against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this thing to you today. The Lord will hand you and Israel over to the Philistines! Tomorrow both you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also hand the army of Israel over to the Philistines!”” 1 Samuel 28:8-19 NET bible.com/bible/107/1sa.28.8-19.NET
Funny how people who believe the gospels were written late point at the passage that says "some standing here will not taste death" as a gotcha passage. If they're written late, the writer would have known the majority of the witnesses were dead, so he wouldn't have written it. The passage is actually pointing to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD as evidenced by the parallel passages in Mark, Luke and Daniel. It's not even about the future coming. Also, how can he say there was no predictive intent in OT prophecy when the whole reason they accepted Jesus as Messiah was based on prophecies interpreted in their original context?
I always snicker when I hear someone posit that Jesus is a liberal or conservative. I laugh a little less when someone is in the position to know better such as a biblical scholar like Bart. Then it's likely called dishonesty. I am not arguing for or against a theist vs atheist view. The texts simply don't show these views. Biblically speaking Jesus in the bible is a theocrat and the apparent author of that paradigm. Ehrman knows this and maybe Shermer as well.
I wonder if Ehrman knows that, the Jew's eschatological beliefs were not originally Jewish, they were Zoroastrian. They are not in the Torah and, the Jewish prophets never mentioned them until the second Temple period when the Jew's were exposed to them in Babylon.
Skeptics cannot reasonably explain Paul's conversion other than that 'something happened to him'. A man going from murdering followers of Christ to being his chief champion on Earth is a pretty big turnaround. They also cannot they explain why so many people saw Jesus resurrected and recorded it.
If you lost your Christian experience you need to get it back - and any man who rejects Christ or His word is far from being a scholar and more of a fool - for scripture says - the fool has said in his heart that there is no God...so all you have to look forward too is the day of judgment and annihilation as there is no such place as hell...hell is a fire that annihilates so the consequences of the fire are eternal but not the fire itself...read the book - the fire that consumes by William Edward Fudge
Watch ‘30 Coins’. The Witch conjured the shade of Samuel which wasn’t authorized by God as in the Transfiguration. Some go as far as to say he conjured a demon. But I believe the former.
Hi Bart, I bought yr book, Heaven & Hell. I have about it 10 more of yr books. I hope u explain the meaning of EVERY verse in the bible, that refers to heaven and hell. If not, broadcast a somehow the meaning. We need an answer for every verse referring or hinting about heaven and hell. Thx
Hitler did not get away with it!! He destroyed himself from within. Evil is its own punishment and goodness is its own reward. Our conscience is very powerful it generally does not let us get away with it. We need to transcend the idea of reward or punishment. When we die; that is the conclusion of our existence. We go back to dust. We merge with the Earth.
The Hebrew Bible writers' views of the afterlife was -- how shall we say it charitably? -- unsophisticated. In its simplest form, the view was that when human beings die, the animating spirit within them -- various called the Nefesh or the Chayyah or the Neshema -- essentially dies with the body. But there was the very rare and very exceptional person who would be "taken up" into the sky (in Hebrew, "heaven" and "sky" are the same word), and to show how exceptional such a case was, in the entire TaNaKh it only happens twice: to Enoch and to Elijah.
Early Christians did not believe in a heaven or hell....Jesus revealed that the kingdom of God is at hand "already here" and that it is in us or more precisely simply what we ARE as our true nature which is 'spirit' or also known as consciousness/awareness. This is in full display in Jesus discourse with Nicodemus in John 3 when he gives Nicodemus the key to interpreting scripture or more precisely the gospel of Jesus Christ. The key being that the gospel is to be interpreted spiritually and NOT literally as modern erroneously interprets the Bible....
I wish I had my book done right now. You would have so much fun reading it. There are so many points in this podcast too that intersect with points in my book.
Job doesn't suffer in spite of his righteousness; he suffers because of his righteousness. Schmuck! All he had to do was sin. God would have lost his bet - so what?
You apparently don’t understand what a conservative means. Conservatives believe in taking care of the poor. They do so themselves they don’t feel the need for government to do it. The Bible says to take care of others doesn’t say the government should take care of others Mr. Schirmer figure out what the obvious liberals aren’t the only people that care about other people.
The only things we can saved before we die is our memory’s, and if in the near future we can transfer the memory’s to a robot or human , then , we can have a permanent life.
If front of GOD..probably will be busy..terrified dont care about other..bcs think what to answer or give excuse..that time..all sin will be flash show face to face😁if human say they forget..hearing roaring hell fire..and the heat..will make them faint..god know everything..even what in human heart or think..thats justice..worse your body part will talk..bcs mouth habitually used to lie will be shut up..thats hurt.
@David Anewman that's wired so the Egyptians and Ancient Chinese didn't have families...we have historical evidence of family life long before your God was invented. Also saying that if is fine that Jesus supported the institution of slavery since he didn't own slaves of his on is a really bad argument.
QUESTION : AFTER ONE HAS TAKEN A NUMBER OF THE GREAT COURSES, CAN ONE OBTAIN SOME KIND OF OF ACADEMIC CERTIFICATION OR DIPLOMA AFTER PASSING TESTS ON THE SUBJECT MATERIAL !
There are a number of books that contain the phrase “Republican Jesus”. Is it possible to get the author of this book. I would like to read it. Thanks.
The kingdom came at Pentecost from my understanding. The Holy Spirit was poured out. The kingdom of god is people who are filled with the Holy Spirit on earth.
I enjoy these salon presentations. none of us can know if we're right about anything but it is fun to listen to people discuss ideas even when you don't agree with them in toto or even in part.
The desire for justice is insufficient to explain Christianity. One person atoning for others is not justice. Infinite reward for finite good behavior (or infinite punishment...) is not justice.
it's not 13.7 anymore , it's about 11 billion years now with new calculations it's weird nobody knows this ... the really weird thing is , there are stars older then 21 billion years and up
@David Anewman It's 13.8 billion years, actually. There is plenty of evidence from Cosmology and physics. You know, the same science that gives you the ability to type this nonsense on a computer. What's your evidence for the ridiculous anti-scientific claim of 6,000 years? The number of generations of goat herders in an Iron-Age Book of Fables? God _"done"_ it? You've got to be kidding. *LOL!*
Religion has infiltrated politics forever. You cannot get away from the religious influence on the Republican political party today. It is the embodiment of fundamentalist evangelical christian influence which is anti-American Constitution. It is dangerous on so many levels. BTW human beings are human beings worthy of respect and care regardless of their "legal" status. Using such to abuse any group of people seeking refuge is inhumane and disgusting. Even the character Jesus would be appalled.
"And yet, he doesn't believe. Why not?" I tell you why not: because knowing a lot is not enough. It's never enough, and more sorely so, to believe. To believe you also must use your reason to go deep into your knowledge. The more you know, the more you need to use your own reason. You can also call it "common sense" or just "wisdom".
Dr. Bart: *gives a whole talk about the evolution of christianity* Republicans in the comments: "WHAT WAS THAT YOU MENTIONED IN THE BEGGINING ABOUT US?!!!!"
@@laurelrockwell2100 well many academics, especially humanities professors, are very liberal so its not really suprising to me. Academia has always been progressive compared to non-academics
Since there was no crucifixion, the story is prophetic, like the stories of Adam, Moses, Noah, Jonah, Joshua etcetera. Jesus was still around to help work on the Gospels. I've never seen Isaiah 40:3 put into context with Isaiah 40:2. The sacrifice is when he wields the fiery sword guarding the way to the tree of life on the day of vengeance AS judgment. How else could he judge the world if not by inflicting wrath? This sets up the abomination of desolation in him, the temple without one stone left standing upon another. Job asks why he suffers when he is not evil. For Jesus, first death, then judgment, after which come the return, so too for Christ. He returns within the same generation. In the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna asked about the consequences of war. After this Holocaust, he returns as the suffering servant in his resurrection, from a corruption which he never returns, to to justify God in his sentence and vinidcate him when he condemns. he raised him from the dead, never to return to corruption (Act 13:34 NABO) If you have difficulty with this, the Father you spring from is the Devil. Jesus began his work of the salvation of the cornerstone as Adam. God must be true, though every human being is a liar, as it is written: "That you may be justified in your words, and conquer when you are judged." (Rom 3:4 NABO) Against you alone have I sinned; I have done such evil in your sight That you are just in your sentence, blameless when you condemn. (Psa 51:6 NABO) he has appeared at the end of the ages ... Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment, so also Christ, ... will appear a second time (Heb 9:26-28 NABO) (death - judgment - return) ---- It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time. At that time your people shall escape, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; some shall live forever, others shall be an everlasting horror and disgrace. (Dan 12:1-2 NABO) ---- In his name this man stands before you healed. He is 'the stone rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.' (Act 4:10-11 NABO) the Lord God will give him the throne of David his Father (Luk 1:32 NABO) Blessed is the kingdom of our Father David that is to come! (Mar 11:10 NABO) then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father (1Co 15:24 NABO) I am the root and offspring of David, the bright Morning Star. (Rev 22:16 NABO) Nor does the Father judge anyone (Joh 5:22 NABO) The Father and I are one." (Joh 10:30 NABO) so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me (Joh 17:21 NABO) The Son himself will (also) be subjected to the “One” who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all. (1Co 15:28 NABO) No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us. (1Jo 4:12 NABO) God is Spirit (Joh 4:24 NABO) No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is at (your) Father's side, has revealed him. (Joh 1:18 NABO) there are, to be sure, many "gods" and many "lords", yet for us there is one God, the Father, (1Co 8:5-6 NABO) David, the bright Morning Star." (Rev 22:16 NABO) You belong to your Father the devil (Joh 8:44 NABO) How have you fallen from the heavens, O Morning Star, son of the dawn! (Isa 14:12 NABO) On your belly shall you crawl, and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life. (Gen 3:14 NABO) "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. (Joh 6:35 NABO) Is not my house firm before God? He has made an eternal covenant with me, set forth in detail and secured. Will he not bring to fruition all my salvation and my every desire? (2Sa 23:5 NABO) the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail (Mat 16:18 NABO) David, their king, whom I will raise up for them. (Jer 30:9 NABO) From David's throne, and over his kingdom, which he confirms and sustains By judgment and justice, both now and forever. (Isa 9:6 NABO) your kingdom shall be preserved for you, once you have learned it is heaven that rules (Dan 4:23 NABO) At the same time my reason returned to me, and for the glory of my kingdom, my majesty and my splendor returned to me. My nobles and lords sought me out; I was restored to my kingdom, and became much greater than before. (Dan 4:33 NABO) ---- You, O king, are the King of kings; to you the God of heaven has given dominion and strength, power and glory; men, wild beasts, and birds of the air, wherever they may dwell, he has handed over to you, making you ruler over them all; (Dan 2:37-38 NABO) Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings (Rev 17:14 NABO) Truly your God is the God of gods and Lord of kings; The revealer of mysteries (Dan 2:47 NABO) ---- Esau, the firstborn, lives by the sword (sacrifice) and serves his brother, Jacob, who was born ‘striking’ at his heel. Isaac blessed Esau saying: "Ah, far from the fertile earth shall be your dwelling; far from the dew of the heavens above! (Gen 27:39 NABO) "My kingdom does not belong to this world. (Joh 18:36 NABO) Where I am going you cannot come. (Joh 8:21 NABO) The one who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens themselves (Eph 4:10 NABO) "By your sword you shall live, and your brother you shall serve; But when you become restive (weak; infirm; a worm; man of suffering; wanderer in the desert), you shall throw off his yoke from your neck." (Gen 27:40 NABO) Your marriage to her has been decided in heaven! Take your kinswoman; from now on you are her love, and she is your beloved. She is yours today and ever after. (Tob 7:11 NABO) the LORD is witness between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have broken faith though she is your companion, your betrothed wife. Did he not make one being, with flesh and spirit: and what does that one require but godly offspring? You must then safeguard life that is your own, and not break faith with the wife of your youth. (Mal 2:14-15 NABO)
