The trick to getting quick GPS lock is to initially power the FC through the USB with a power bank and wait a couple of minutes till it has 5-6 satellites. Once it has the minimum number of satellites then you plug in the battery before unplugging the USB. This helps because powering thought the USB will not power the Caddx Vista and ESC which are causing the interference. This trick makes a big difference. Once you have enough satellites locked then it works without issue, at least that is my experience on the Flywoo Explorer. The first time you power it on after say a week, then it does take longer since the GPS needs to figure out where on the planet it is and download the latest GPS satellite schedule.
I had consistent success on the Flywoo Analogue version by making the following changes (and yes they should have been made when it was manufactured). Twist the GPS wires from the FC (plenty of spare length) Insert the GPS wire bundle into a length of heat shrink (didn't bother shrinking it as 6mm will fit over the GPS plug) and raise the VTX (the genuine GOKO version in mine) by adding some nylon standoffs on top of the bolts. 10+ Sats in a couple of minutes (Australia)
Good tip 👍. This is the same trick as Ethernet cables use, twisting the cables together helps reject external RF noise. Ideally we could add a conductive layer, such an aluminium, inside the heat shrink to provide even more RF shielding.
I have the same BT-180 GPS , and it works flawlessly with soft serial because I use analog and don't have Vista or the centralized ESC. When the GPS works flawlessly, the buzzer is not necessary because you always have the coordinates logged in the goggles immediately before the crash and even after the crash.
I must add that the Explorer LR4 (the newest one) with the arm braces attached is insanely durable. I flew it at a bando with other 5" pilots and they couldn't understand how mine could survive the impacts it was taking with both 1500mAh and 720mAh GNB 4s lipos. With tri props adding extra 'grip' in the air, the combination of total weight and those braces, it really makes it a great quad to learn different disciplines on. The only thing I would wish is that they use button head screws rather than cup head and that the metal on dave-c's motors was less soft as I've stripped a couple now just by removing screws!
I bought a Diatone Roma frame by itself and put a F722 DJI Mini stack in it on betafpv 1404 motors. I don't have the issue with vibrations and jello you are seeing so it's likely an issue with the motors. I love the fact that you can put a full DJI air unit in it, no need for a gopro if 1080p is enough for you.
@@BFBackyYup, that's what I did. It does protrudes a bit 1mm out of the frame on the bottom though, just so that the lens is fully protected in the cage.
My lesson learned when it comes to putting GPS on to the quads (and BNF manufacturers are yet to learn) is that it belongs on the arm, as far as possible from any other antenna. You dont have to shield wires then, it locks on fast and it gets the most satelites. Many will opose - "if you crash and snap your arm, then you might damage your GPS" and they are right, however i want GPS to work as best as it could without attaching any unnecessary 3d prints to my quad and if i crash and snap the arm, then 10USD BN220 is last thing i would worry about.
You are right! GPS signals are weakest signal and GPS module is cheapest electronic except buzzer on a drone. Maybe good gps signals protect our kwads...
@@hakanyazicicom well, yes. I encountered GPS having hard time to to found any satelites when it was placed directly behind HD camera mount as HD cameras effectively jams it somehow, even when they are turned off(i know, its werid and it does not matter if its runcam5 or gopro, but runcam split is the worst). When i took out HD cam, it locked within seconds. So i tought ok...lets put it away from the camera and putted it on to the back of the quad like on those BNF quads. Not good at all, waiting minutes to get a lock and number of satelites was not great as then it probably get jammed by VTX antenna. Then i tought hmm, ok lets do it simplest way possible and placed it on to the arm, just isolated it a bit from motor wires by electrical tape. Since then im having solid locks within seconds after i plug in battery(even when i arrive at new spot) and even during flight im not losing satelites at all. Screw possible gps damage, most important is as you said, give GPS ability to save the quad by having solid lock.
I found that the issues that I was having with GPS on my chimera was caused by the GPS module being set to 1Hz update speed. After changing it to 10Hz, it fixed all my problems including satellite acquisition time.
Meanwhile I'm trying ot make my own micro long-range and I didn't even know this was a class with pre-made things! Maybe there will be some designs here that I can yoink, lol.
Long story short, build your own! They all have issues. But almost ever qwad does. Thanks for sharing the pros and cons! Really appreciate all your work!
I have the explorer but think I'm build a shocker 5" Hate the don't wire R9mm in F.port for telemetry.. ugh should just built it myself. Came with crappy camera too.. but order before geprc came out
I agree. I've built a lot of quads and I've purchased a few also thinking and hoping they were going to be better. In the end I've always enjoyed the ones I built better making me feel like I wasted my money on all the hype.
Agree. I built up an analog Transformer on 2500kv and love it. Better camera, better vtx, aio, gps, better everything. Build video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Kc9Xrln1atg.html
@@anfrae25 totally agree, almost everyone of the BNF I purchased or purchased for me had some issues. If they even works. The last 3 BNF from BetaFPV ,DOA. I’m thinking of building a Flywoo Explorer!
I got the flywoo. Love it. Replaced the VTX with a TBS 800mW. Only gripe is that motor solder sucked and one wire came off on the second flight and crashed. There went the spare arm.
Hi Joshua, 57 year old just getting into FPV. I subscribed to your channel a few weeks back and really enjoying it! Thanks for the content, humor and quality :)
@@JoshuaBardwell thanks, I purchased DJI FPV System before discovering your affiliate links but hoping to support the channel moving forward. I still need quads and everything else, Is it possible to use the DJI Air Unit with the your Xilo Kit?
I can say with 100% certainty that if you have your power wires running parallel to and directly next to the GPS wires, you will lose satellites. Had this issue on another quad. I'd plug in via USB to get sats, then I'd have 14 sats and the moment I'd plug into the battery, all sats would instantly disappear. As soon as I separated them, away went the issues. Now they are each about an inch apart and all problems solved. No drop in sats when battery gets plugged in. I also chose the Chimera4 3800kv before watching this video. Only 2 packs through it, but it feels great. The Chimera 7 is also outstanding.
Awesome comparison. I love that you broke it down in a spreadsheet for us data nerds. When comparing a quad, motor, etc its always helpful for me to see data like this. On race quads I always wonder about max draw during a full send and at hover. This data rocks for these and thank you! Yes, I am a data nerd and I like to measure everything.
Flywoo .. If you swap the DJI unit from softserial to uart and then put the GPS onto the softserial, you can run 4.2.4 with no issue and no dropping out OSD.
@@baggszilla Nope. It ships with the GPS on a real UART and the vista on the softserial. If you swap those around, as the GPS uses a much lower baud, it doesn't drop out anymore.
@@TheZolon both the same gps so I imagine will plug right in and fit the holder? I want to change the gps. I went 2 days no satellites.. I left it on for a hour 1 time. Inside and outside for 45mins. I flew for 15mins.. Other times I get a satellites in couple mins. I even don't out the gopro on and I move the vtx antenna to the side
Thanks for the overview. So the one that I test here as well (couldn't get the others to send me one) has the shortest flight time... It still feels very long and more than enough for me. So absolute numbers are not always important. Just love the overal package of the chimera. But I'm biased because a lot of it's name is in my name (sChimera) Greets, Mario
From a GPS that works: BN 880 Size:28mm x 28mm x 10mm Weight:10g vs BN 180 Dimension : 18mm*18mm*6mm Weight : 4.9g -- twice the price but it works. Active antenna with more surface space.
Diatone Roma L4 is on sale now and I got one without Vista for US$133. It doesn’t have any jello problem. The GPS can collect enough satellites quickly. The cable running from FC to GPS is now shielded with copper foil. I think Diatone has completely solved the issue.
Average speed of 17 km/h? This is much closer to a hover test than to a real range test. The thing is a quad always needs to spend energy to fight gravity and flying slowly means a big part of the battery is used just to keep it up in the air. On the other hand with higher horizontal speed the drag gets higher and motors get less efficient so there is a sweet spot where you get the most distance out of a battery. But this sweet spot is rather around 60 km/h for a 4" than at 17 km/h. Anyway, this test is still a good starting point and I am thankful that you gave this fascinating new class of quad a thorough review.
I agree. The best all around long range 4 inch quad is the Iflight's Chimera. It's trade off is in the right direction, because I just crash a lot. It is the sturdiest while still qualifying as a sub 250g with the proper battery. I would gladly switch the GPS for a good self powered buzzer, though. For DIY, I'd go with the Roma frame, Iflight motors, electronics, Caddx Vista and TBS Crossfire VTX RX solutions. As always, JB is the go to reference for this new category of quads. Thank you, maestro.
I agree with your DIY decisions but I might lean towards one of the new, high-amp-rating toothpick FC/ESC combos. The iFlight Beast and SPRacing AIO seem so good, although they are definitely pricey.
So happy with the Explorer. Holy shit it flies for a long time. Coming from a 5" which flies for 5-6 minutes at best, this is just a whole other experience. On not too windy days, there's nothing I'd rather do than fly this thing in the mountains. Pure bliss.
Joshua thanks for all your help the past few days trying to get F.Port working on my Baby Croc. I gave up in the end and went with SBUS. Maidened it today and am so happy with the result, and the GPS and rescue mode worked perfectly. Video on my channel if anyone wants to lose 17 minutes of their life that they will never get back lol. Stay safe everyone 👻
My Flywoo explorer, I got the 4k Tarsier version, and it came with the pandarc VTX. and I must say, it's one awesome little vtx. I don't do much "long range" with the explorer,. More tree surfing and light flowy freestyle, "momentum-style" lol. I've had nothing but good luck with mine, crashed a few times, didn't break anything even on concrete, and I do plan to swap the VTX to a rushfpv 800mw mini tank, or a 800mw TBS vtx. I have both sitting in a box right now just haven't had time to swap over. Thanks Joshua for the awesome video. You have convinced my brother to get the iflight chimera for a little more freestyle
I once had GPS issue too with my Flywoo LR, and I'm not very sure what course it, but after I replaced it with a bn-220(of course, you need a bigger gps holder), it works much more better then it was.
I have the flywoo. One of the things I have done is to shield the antenna cable (passes right next to the GPS and the GPS cables), rather than the gps wires themselves, and I now get sats immediately. Think I'm the first to do this
@@stefanosavio7151 yeah it's really nice to fly. Super smooth and really calm. Best thing is how quiet it is - other people think it's a toy and so it doesn't draw any where near as much attention as a five inch. Doesn't have much power to pull out of big dives though so you have to be extra careful when doing anything very demanding. It's a cruiser
Nothing wrong with picking the iFlight. I had a terrible experience with Flywoo and got the Chimera instead, and I've been having an absolute blast with it. The SucceX analog VTX is amazing, even. Couldnt be happier with it - would not recommend the analog Explorer LR to my worst enemy on the other hand.
I have 5 or 6 2.5 and 3 in micro quads I fly around my property and love the way they fly. But for long-range cruising I was considering the new DJI Mini 2 with vr goggles. I know there's a latency issue and keep that in mind when flying. But I am also Holding Out for the new DJI FPV race quad bundle I've been hearing about in the last week or so.
Thanks Joshua, good info as usual. Don't overlook the Airblade Transformer Mini as a build your own comparison to the shocker please. I'm loving my little transformer build w/3850 1404s, it flies light acro with ease and still gets 8-10min flights on a 4s 650.
I finally saw the iflight Chimera with the 3800 kv motors and dead cat frame at the hobby shop today but have yet to see anyone do a review on it yet. It looks sooo much better. And it performs better from what I hear. I'm thinking about getting that one so I'm glad you suggested it as well.
@@tylerelliottFPV the legal limit in the UK is 10mW. There will be rules and regulations in most other countries too. Oscar Liang wrote "there is legal consideration what the maximum output power is allowed in every country. As for as I know 25mW is the limit in most countries without a license. But please check your local regulation before transmitting"
@@omarakhtar3075 it doesn't negate my opinion. Everyone can buy an 800mW vtx im pretty sure. If you get the DJI version (Chinese company) you already have a max output (before 'illegal' mod) of 700 mW. 450mW is well above 25mW isn't it? Why not sell it with an 800mW vtx instead? It's funny to sell a 'long range' quad that's not really setup for long range. Crossfire is attached (which is good to 2W) but they put the antenna in the wrong orientation. So when you turn sideways you'll be in full view of the antenna null. Not good long range etiquette.
Well, long range quads are falling too. My chimera dropped from 7th floor, and only thing that broke was my prop - I've just bent it back and continue to fly
Love this eps. The problem with this dave-c design is that it is either 30+ minute OR 250- grams. It is not an AND. If you really have an AND design, the drone goes into the utility Internet of Things realm where you start to think about deployments of thousand units or million units. And that will be where the serious money comes. Until then, it is in the realm of the hobby shop down the street kind of business.
Probleem with the gps is the cable between the camera and vista, this is an CSI interface and it always courses problems with gps. Disable the vista and the gps on all of the quads works fine. Maybe the dji camera cable is better shielded but I didn't test this
"...and if you are the kind of person who loves raw numbers, you can freeze frame it... " after I freeze frame it, lol. You are amazing, Joshua, thank you!
Great overview of our choices. Really like the way you explain your thoughts on the differences between the 4. I'm building the Flywoo Explorer. I think I changed my mind about which motors to buy based on your pros and cons. As for the GPS issues, I find that raising the GPS up above the video antenna on a short tpu stalk I get much better performance on my 7" build . I ordered a Geprc mark 4 hd5 GPS mount from Banggood to try on my flywoo build.
The ground plane to the GPS module is too small. The antenna preforms more like a directional antenna. Increase the ground plane and the antenna will broaden its RF response. You'll capture more sats and thus increase its performance. Maybe print the bracket in metal and ground it?? The interface to the GPS module from the drone is digital. It's unlikely to experience interference. Unless the power rail is really choppy.
The BN-180 gps unit is just fine. The problem comes from the Betaflight version. I tested all the versions from 4.0 to 4.1.6 and only 4.1.6 perfoms very well with gps. It locks in 1-2 minutes maximum with easily 10-12 sats! I didn't check the next versions of Betaflight for gps accurancy.
I built a Dave_C design MLR cut by CNCmadness with 16x16mm stack and Caddx Vista months ago. It suffers from the same slight bobble I see a lot in these 4" MLR and I get bored after a few minutes of cruising. Sold the frame and I'm planning to use the Chimera 4" frame and 20x20mm stack for a more versatile quad. And the new CMW 5" Shocker is probably my thing going forward.
I might suggest try getting the GPS away from the antenna and/or try a mateksys M8q GPS. Works great for me in a couple of builds. Quick sat lock as well as being small and lightweight. Keep the reviews coming Joshua. 🤙
Nice video. When thinking about GPS Joshua, there are many factors in play. The Alpha index (solar) as well as the general position of the satellites may play a role. Nevertheless i have found that my matek SAM-M8Q seems to find satellites faster and more of them than any of my other iflight, BN-228 or similar chips and i dont argue with your assesment.
Ive had the analogue Flywoo Explorer for a couple of months and havent had a single problem with GPS lock (usually have to wait about 30 sec to a minute for a lock). GPS rescue has always worked when i tested it as well. Recently i upgraded the vtx to ImmersionRC Nano vtx (700mw), and was able to send it 8km (17km round trip) without any problems (using 7 turn helical on my ev-800d).
I am building my own, using the 4” arms for the ImpulseRC Micro Reverb, JHEMCU GHF420AIO, BetaFPV 2004-3,000kv (stock issues), Caddx Nebula HD, Crossfire, GPS. Still need to 3ad print a mount for the gps, and get a long antenna.
Pretty cool to see all those niffty long rangers together side by side. thank you for sharing. i don't necessarily like long range. to me it seems high, straight, and slow paced = boring. i may fall asleep if i took off for a 2 mile trip out in a cruise on one of those"D If i bought one i would probably only use it to dive a mountain or do midrange things with it but then again they prob aren't heavy enough for some of that. my DC7Hd is just right but i wouldn't mind seeing the difference. If long range ever became a thing where you could still penetrate at a lower altitude with obstacles in between then yes maybe that would be a game changer but to soar in a straight line one way and back to me just isn't my cup of tea. cool to say that you did it but yea not my cup of tea. Hey oh yea! if i had one i'd prob be like a storm chaser you know. like a twister hunter or something and use it to track where a tornado might be headed without having to even move from my location once i get close enough. that would be dope to see one about 1/2 mile out and not have to be scared that its going to turn and come for you. anyways happy flying JB
Just as a precaution: the GepRC BabyCroc has the GPS/the OSD working, but only at a cost. GepRC striped the current sensor pin in favor of the GPS (no ADC_CURR resource mapped). So you have NO current indication in the OSD or the telemetry (which is a pity, especially when you plan to fly Li-Ion packs). GepRCs answer to the problem: "use the voltage to estimate the current" - not quite a pleasing answer from an engineering standpoint ;-). If somebody knows/has a workaround (using the ESCs for current measurement ?), please let me know.
Like I’m new to this and you make this so difficult to understand. l would love to hear someone say this. Sub 250 drone rating (name of drone) $Price x x x x For expensive Freestyle 8/10 Racing 5/10 Cinema 9/10 Range 6/10 GPS Yes DJI HD Yes Ect. I can grasp the whole battery flight time syuff . I am new to this and I have no clue when you reference stuff to other drones. I love yr Channel it’s one of the best.
Buy the Flywoo if you want the longest flight time and range. Buy the GEPRC if you want really long flight time and range, but not quite as long as the Flywoo, but overall a better quality product. Buy the Chimera 3800kv version if you want long flight time and range, with a bit of freestyle mixed in.
Baby Crocodile has the gps above the antenna cable. All the others have the gps hidden behind the antenna cable. Could it explain the slightly better gps performance on the GepRC?
I think you are right, I built the Dave C 4 inch and had the gps at the back with the antenna higher up behind the gps, when I went slow there was no issue, but when I throttled up so the quad pitched forward, the top of the antenna was directly over the GPS module and I lost sats completely, so I moved the GPS to the top of the battery strap and I now get 18 sats consistently and no drop out at all
@@yerfavagent Good idea. How about GPS altitude though? Mine is nowhere close to accurate no matter how many sats I get. I read on the web that GPS altitude isn't reliable....
@@Mister_Garibaldi Last time I looked mine which was a few weeks ago - winter, it was off too by 40 metres until i took off then it settled to the approximate real height, I'm using the BN220
@Brandon S sorry, I missed your response, I built my own 4" and added my own bn220 gps module. Depending on the length of the wire your module has available, you should be able to place it elsewhere. I used some of that really strong 3M double sided tape between the module and strap and then I put a small cable tie around all three things.
I have the Shocker 4 and 5" , and also the Flywoo 4" & Tomo quad's Katana 4". And Shocker 4" is definitely more Stout. I love them all but definitely different model category.
hello ktmjay quick question, can you do freestyle with the 5" shocker? also can you share the specs? I want the 5 inches but I want to know if I can also do a bit of freestyle with it
OK Josh you did this in November 2020 it’s over a year ago I still wanna know about Flywoo BNF HR 4” long range an it’s GPS update did they solve the problems with the GPS because I still like that drone and it flies really good and some of us like to fly far we don’t get bored after 10 minutes bro!
I'll be building the Flywoo with it's 3850kv's and a Mamba F7 20x20 stack. Really curious what flight times I'll get on different battery setups. First of a 3S Li-Ion 3000mAh but also 2P 450mAh 3S Lipo (900mAh), 650mAh 3S or a 850mAh 4S ... Hope the parts get here before santa ... Anyone knows what updated with the "v2" from Flywoo? Both frame and motors are v2.
I've had a lot of issues with gps locks and hd cameras, apparently the wires send out signals at an inconvenient frequency. Really you need to shield the camera wires and ideally the vista unit or find a way to unplug the vista until you get a lock. Usually once you have the first lock and the gps has the satellite positions for that place and time it's ok.
Fantastic video, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃 Yeah... I guess I'm going to build my own with the Diatone frame! 😂 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Great vid. I know it's been 2 years but do u still stand by you picks or is there better stuff out the. I typed "4 in long range fpv" and yours is the only comparison vid.
My build is 3800kv , polar cam, frame like in geprc, (180g without bat and 280 with bat) and with battery 850mah it takes 7.5min (35km/h) , when I shift to 3 props blade it reduce 1min - 6.5min
It would be Interesting to compare the Mavic Mini to this Sorted Lot ! .... Just to Show what a Premium consumer Video Platform can Doo ...... Or would that Embarrass your expensive Contraptions and MacGyver Built Buggies ?? ....... :-D ..... Cheers !
It would be interesting to see if the efficiency and flight times hold proportionally with a larger battery tested on all of them. Would the iFlight perform better with a battery most “suited” to that motor?
The 3800 kv version of the Chimera also cruises reasonably well with a 3S LiPo. Could be worth assembling a 3S 18650 pack. Less power and "fuel" but lighter. Curious about how it would affect efficiency.
Hey joshua, Would you please I mean PLEASE REVIEW THE IFLIGHT PROTEK 35 digital version?! I would really appreciate it And I’m sure most people here would want the same as well , Happy flying Cheers
Has anyone had stability issues? Even at half throttle I am getting a ton of oscillation. The other day I changed direction and it flipped over and crashed. I did have a hero 10 bones onboard but can't imagine it can't handle that camera. Frustrating, I want to love this drone!
