Mike Israetel on Mike Mentzer’s “Heavy Duty” HIT Training

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Mike Mentzer's high-intensity training (HIT) method has been experiencing a resurgence in popularity lately, but does the science support its effectiveness?
In this episode, I talk with Dr. Mike Israetel to get his take on the pros and cons of Mentzer's Heavy Duty Workout approach.
In case you're not familiar with Dr. Mike, he's a repeat guest on the Muscle for Life podcast and a true expert in the field of sports science and hypertrophy.
With a PhD in Sport Physiology, years of experience as a competitive bodybuilder, and a wealth of practical knowledge from co-founding Renaissance Periodization and working with thousands of clients, Mike knows how to bridge the gap between science and real-world application.
In our discussion, you'll learn about . . .
The allure of HIT training and why it's gaining popularity again
The benefits of Mentzer's approach, including its emphasis on recovery and progressive overload
The valuable tradition of logbooking workouts that Mentzer helped popularize
The scientific shortcomings of Mentzer's method, such as the superiority of multiple sets over single sets
The suboptimal nature of very low training volumes and frequencies in HIT, and the potential drawbacks of training to failure
When and for whom HIT-style training can work effectively
Practical tips for trying a more sustainable, evidence-based version of Mentzer’s approach
And more . . .
Whether you're a fan of Mentzer's methods or simply curious about the science of hypertrophy training, click play because you won't want to miss this discussion.
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Timestamps:
(0:00) Please leave a review of the show wherever you listen to podcasts and make sure to subscribe!
(2:28) Go to www.mfl.show/spring to get BOGO 50% off during our Spring Sale!
(5:51) Who was Mike Mentzer and what is his Heavy Duty training method?
(9:13) Why is Mentzer's HIT training experiencing a resurgence in popularity?
(20:08) What are the benefits of Mentzer's training approach?
(25:18) Please share the podcast with a friend! www.muscleforlife.show
(25:52) - What did Mentzer get wrong about optimal hypertrophy training?
(32:38) Is training beyond failure effective for muscle growth?
(35:24) What other components of Mentzer's HIT style are suboptimal?
(38:56) When can low-frequency training work well?
(47:41) How can you improve on Mentzer's HIT method if you want to try it?
(50:20) Where can people find more of Mike Israetel's work?
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Mentioned on the Show:
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Renaissance Periodization Website: rpstrength.com/
Renaissance Periodization RU-vid Channel: / @renaissanceperiodization

Опубликовано:

5 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 97

@bapa8426 3 месяца назад

Mike interviewing Mike about Mike

@StoicSpartanWealthandWellness 3 месяца назад

No doubt each of them using a Mike to do so 🤣

@VegetaPrinceOfSaiyans 3 месяца назад

Mike^3

@bass779 3 месяца назад

Mikeception

@totallyraw1313 3 месяца назад

I guess if your name is not Mike, you're just not that guy!

@McAppleJuice 3 месяца назад

Hahahaha

@Winteryears 3 месяца назад

I loved Mike Mentzer and his methods back in the day - I am not a body builder, I was a carpenter, now retired. He was good for a pencil neck like me who just wanted to stay strong for work. I liked it so much I now use the Stronglifts 5X5 method.

@tomowen9412 3 месяца назад

Mike mentzer is so popular now because it WORKS. So many of us have gained amazing results doing this vs rubbish results when doing volume training.

@grandarchon6969 3 месяца назад

The summary at 14:30 or so is probably also the same reason starting strength is so popular. People mess about in the gym, don't get stronger or better results, then try a systemic approach (actually train for the first time) and get results. There's probably a ton of newish gym goers, who've never actually trained hard, who find the Mentzer way successful, because it's the first time they've ever pushed to failure or near failure.

@theironforce3000 3 месяца назад

The anabolic Mike trifecta going on here. Mentzer topics are always highly appreciated.

@Metalkake 3 месяца назад

Loving the discussion gentlemen 🙏

@G.Bfit.93 3 месяца назад

Mike, your interview of Dr. Mike on the subject of RIP 🙏 Mike's HIT principles was fantastic. Mike, you're awesome!!

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

Thanks for the comment, glad you liked it!

@emmang2010 3 месяца назад

Second. Love Dr Mike for everything he is. Thanks for this one.

@umutesen9348 28 дней назад

The idea of starting with one set is not arbitrary as Mentzer said: if one set does not work, you do two sets, if two doesn’t work you do three sets every workout. If you start with 10 sets and you are not growing, do you go up or down?

@reidos6420 3 месяца назад

First. Giving love to Mentzer style training 🥰

@jeremyamin5938 3 месяца назад

Great interview thank you. On my reading of Menzter his reasons for “1 set per exercise” are quite reasoned and not arbitrary. It seems to have been a response to the notion propagated by people in his day that, say, 12-20 sets are necessary or optimal for hypertrophy. He reasoned that if no growth occurs as a consequence of so many sets how can we know whether the person requires more or less stimulus ie sets, exercises, intensity increases (for him post failure methods) or decreases etc. If a person is looking to build strength and size then a logical place to begin is 1 set per exercise (not necessarily per muscle group) in order to methodically discover ones minimum effective workout dose for desirable stimulus and as a result growth adaptation/s. For Mentzer one set per exercise to momentary muscular failure was on average that minimum effective dose hence that recommendation to *start* with. He was not dogmatic about this to my knowledge as he routinely would state that if that wasn’t enough to stimulate growth then at least one knows they can go to two sets etc. to hit the switch to get the muscles growing. Anecdotally I’ve been experimenting with the one set to or close to momentary muscular failure per exercise every 4-14 or so days and found great results in my body. Of course I’m a case study where N=1 so that information likely helps few people who may have an approximation of my precise genetic & epigenetic profile, life circumstances etc lol There is more to the story as always but I thought I’d comment to add to the discussion.

@westfieldartworks8188 3 месяца назад

I appreciate your comments. I found that I did just as well, if not better, with 1 whole body workout - warm up sets + 1 very hard work set per body part per week. I set a lifetime bench press record (355lbs), doing 1 very hard set of Bench Press every 2 weeks. I would do 1 very hard set of Incline Press on the alternate weeks. I did not see an increase in muscle size when I switched back to a high volume approach, nor did I see a muscle loss when I switched back to a very low volume approach, which is where I am today.

@emmang2010 3 месяца назад

@@westfieldartworks8188Incredibly possible that you were over doing the volume when doing the "high volume" phase. This is very common of people who report better gains with very low volumes compared to higher.

@jeremyamin5938 3 месяца назад

Quite interesting. It may be that your body prefers less frequency. I’ve found I tend to feel my strongest and freshest around day 7 after a workout to MMF on each exercise. Experimenting with the number of days til I see a decline in progress I’ve found that I can abstain from training for up to 21 days and still retain my size and strength. As a side note I’ve begun to trial zero warmup sets ie to begin from the moment I workout with my working weight on the leg press let’s say. No injuries thus far which is promising from a time efficiency perspective if this is sustainable. For busy people, or people who have better priorities than spending more time than necessary in the gym to be healthy and look good enough and be strong enough this approach is far superior in my opinion provided of course no deleterious effects occur.

@tomowen9412 3 месяца назад

Mike mentzer is so popular now because it WORKS. So many of us have gained amazing results doing this vs rubbish results when doing volume training.

@ericmalitz 15 дней назад

Great comment; but what NOT going to failure? There is certainly evidence that failure isn’t needed (and that failure can be relatively detrimental.) Then this set discussion shifts.

@Kevin3310 3 месяца назад

Almost every single fitness related adaptation whether it’s increased running endurance, strength, even skill acquisition requires an accumulation of INTENSE ENOUGH (NOT MAXIMAL) repetitions/sets (plural) to be maximized. You can’t run your best mile running an all out mile everyday, you can’t get the best skill acquisition practicing one rep a day, you probably can’t maximize strength and muscle gain with one balls to wall set a day. That’s the point of doing sets and reps, it allows you to accumulate multiple high effort bouts without blowing your tank in one all out bout. The ones who maximize growth/size on one set are the 5%ers if that.

@matalostodos 3 месяца назад

I notice you said “probably can’t” Why comment in something you’ve never tried? So what do you think of eating live octopus, or 12th century portuguese fashion, while we have you here?

@Kevin3310 3 месяца назад

@@matalostodos who said I’ve never tried based on saying probably can’t? That’s a weird assumption. Do you like reading absolute statements only? Raw octopus tentacles are pretty good.

@ericmalitz 15 дней назад

Yes, after reading the comprehensive pro-Mentzer comment above yours, this is a well-stated example of the alternative position. Some of us like to think of strength acquisition as skill acquisition. For other skills, you don’t go “all out.” What IF strength is unique, though? Also, is this conversation always about strength at its core, or can it be only about hypertrophy? (I assume the answer is that you don’t have hypertrophy here without the corresponding progressive overload, but I’m not sure.)

@Kevin3310 15 дней назад

@@ericmalitz Good luck then. Go do your 1 set balls to wall and show your friends how you’re stronger than them doing just 1 set. Hypertrophy also requires multiple high effort bouts, like any other adaptation. It just also happens to tie to strength.

@mcfarvo 3 месяца назад

Hot 🔥 Mike on Mike action 🎬 talking about Mike on the mic. 🎤

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

lolz

@shantanusapru 3 месяца назад

Interesting & useful 'interview'!

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

Glad it was helpful!

@Burkhimself 3 месяца назад

The Goat

@heisman987 3 месяца назад

Ahhh mike grew up for this video. Bring back tiny mike.

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

Hahaha no more smol mike

@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916 3 месяца назад

When training a muscle 1 x week on a PPL split is it better to have an A/B exercise selection for each muscle and rotate those every week hitting the same exercise every 2 weeks like in DC training or better to stick to the same exercises weekly for a while then switch them a few mesocycles later? Or doesn’t it really matter for Hypertrophy as long as you’re beating the log book?

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

I recommend using the same movements through a few mesocycles rather than switching it up.

@iamthechariot 3 месяца назад

I though M Mathews was all about the train a muscle once a week and lift heavy. Has his lifting ideology changed since writing his book? I've been following the one muscle set per week, rest for a week, and lift heavy with 3 sets of 6-7 reps

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

I think you may have me confused with someone else, there's no evidence to suggest you should train one set per week or train each muscle 1 set per week. 9-12 sets per muscle group per week for beginners, 12-20 for intermediate and advanced.

@leemojo3606 2 месяца назад

I had a feeling this interview wasn't going to go anywhere, after Mike described Mike Mentzer as a 80s competitive bodybuilder🤷

@Uzielsquibb 2 месяца назад

Which Mike? “…….yes”

@naturalaquatreasures 3 месяца назад

No need for a long list of speculations as to why he's become popular. It's simple and I'm sure it's true for most of us. I was spinning my wheels for years with the volume training you guys promote, having barely passed my noobie gains stage. Started HIT and am finally progressing - PR's on every lift, every set, every training session. For months now. I'm at a point where I'm questioning all the so-called 'scientific' approach based on studies that I find worthless for the most part. I don't think you need that much protein, I don't think volume is the answer, I don't think the 30 gram per meal limit is true, I don't think the 48-72hr anabolic window post training is also true, etc.. I've seen growth occur 3-4-5 days into my rest after training. At best I could accept that there's a segment of the population that has vastly superior recovery abilities and can grow on higher volumes but I don't think this is true for the majority.

@kacyinix4428 2 месяца назад

This guy did not listen to the podcast

@sabertoothwallaby2937 3 месяца назад

Honest question, didn't Mike Mentzer earn a perfect score twice? The only bodybuilder to do so if i'm not mistaken.

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 месяца назад

I'm not familiar with his stage stats. Interesting if that's true.

@BfSkinnerPunk 5 дней назад

What is meant, specifically, by "systemic fatigue"?

@MikeMatthewsFitness 3 дня назад

When you're really fatigued, the stress isn't just in your muscles anymore-it's all over your body. You can feel it in your brain (CNS), your immune system, and your heart and blood vessels.

@mc80466 3 месяца назад

More volume = more muscle growth. It’s truly that strong a relationship. Training a muscle multiple days in a week is only superior to once per week because it generally allows more volume. If you do so many sets that you can’t recover as quickly, that hurts your volume. So overtraining still proves it’s volume or volume-load that has to be maximized. There are smokers who live to 100, millionaires who take out credit card debt to invest in penny stocks, valedictorians who never study, and jacked people who never train. None of that disproves what we know about those behaviors and outcomes.

@matalostodos 3 месяца назад

🤣 gotta love libril’s faith in man. Stronger than any other kind of faith. If Mao or Stalin says so, it must be true. They got studies to prove it!

@tomowen9412 3 месяца назад

Mike mentzer has gained popularity because there is so much anecdotal evidence of gaining way more muscle for naturals via his approach. Myself included. Volume didn’t work for me, high intensity training has gained me so much muscle since I started it. There’s thousands of others it’s worked for too. I use a mix of mentzer & Dorian Yates style and I’ve seen better results probably 4x that of volume.

@mc80466 3 месяца назад

@@matalostodos are you saying that using studies to understand something is analogous to blindly following a dictator because they said so? If you believe that, I encourage you to read some exercise science research yourself and thoughtfully criticize it.

@mc80466 3 месяца назад

@@tomowen9412 I don’t think his videos going viral translates perfectly to people utilizing his training style. But we have no way to put all this anecdotal evidence into context. We have no way of knowing how many people, what they did previously, what else they changed, their lifting experience, which muscles grew, or even by how much. I can probably find 2 people who grew more muscle as they worked out more for every 1 who grew more by working out less. I do think intensity here is an overlooked factor. It’s entirely possible that people who do high volume tend to train less intensely. So it perhaps is better to train with less volume if it means higher intensity. However, with equal intensity, more volume will tend to be better. Anyways, glad it’s worked for you!

@krystofodehnal9448 3 месяца назад

Show us your results please

@chucknorris5476 3 месяца назад

WOAH WOAH WOAH two smart guys giving an hour of content for free? And it's a triple Mike situation?

@babycheesus666 3 месяца назад

lol is there a yt channel this dude isn't in

@Matrim42 3 месяца назад

Too many Mikes, one must change their name.

@mattacosta4802 3 месяца назад

#Notice: he doesn't mention what's enough. It "all depends" on your personal situation or whatever. His issue is he can't really back up the arguments against itm. It's effective...but sometimes it isn't? Etc. 🤦‍♂️

@santicruz4012 3 месяца назад

More volume is better, as long as you can recover for it. Why do you need a straight universal number?

@theiceman7590 3 месяца назад

@@santicruz4012Thats simply not the case

@santicruz4012 3 месяца назад

@@theiceman7590 can u elaborate?

@theiceman7590 3 месяца назад

@@santicruz4012 I've tried a large number of volume ranges. I recovered from high volume but the gains were mediocre. Got better results doing 9 sets for chest and when that stopped I got more gains when I lowered it to 6.

@santicruz4012 3 месяца назад

@@theiceman7590 thank you. Im going to try training on the lower end, even if I dont get as sore. I workout 3 times a week so I have plenty of time to recover. I’ll probably get back to you in a few months.

@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916 3 месяца назад

Evidence points to 4-6 0-1 RIR sets per muscle per session is where the cap off for stimulus points to in the science literature. Each muscle 1 x5-7 days is where MYOPS is elevated. Look into the research from Paul Carter and Chris Beardsley

@matalostodos 3 месяца назад

You cannot do four full sets of a real challenging workout. Any more than you can sprint all out four times in a row. Let alone do so five times a week. Of course if you could, then logically you’d be making supernatural gains in a matter of months arriving at your top level. otherwise the adaptation theory is nonsense. Because I don’t see israetel’s gym rats making impressive gains unjuiced. They didn’t even try without juicing, there never was a time they relied on technique, diet or science to beef up. To slim for competition, yes, coz that’s harder regardless of pharmaceuticals.

@TypicallyUniqueOfficial 3 месяца назад

Pros: you’re in and out in under 30-45 minutes. Cons: you’re gains after the beginner stage come extremely slow

@matalostodos 3 месяца назад

Looking around nearly all gyms, apart from the dudes with back acne and womanly mood swings, seems like you described everyone who is “following the science”.

@Uzielsquibb 2 месяца назад

3 mikes, some mics, and a pizza place.

@westfieldartworks8188 3 месяца назад

The Low Volume guys tend to be a bit bigger for some reason. Yates, Mentzer, Viator. That's my impression at least. When I do Mentzer's approach, I'm sore for four days afterwards at least, sometimes five.

@LazarusLifts_ 3 месяца назад

So that's 3. Derek Lunsford, Hadi Choopan, Phil Heath, Dexter Jackson, Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, Shaun Rodan, Big Ramy. These people were just as big or bigger than the 3 people you mentioned and trained high volume. Mentzer was a flawed individual with a deep rooted hatred for Arnold and a drug addiction. If Arnold said it was raining outside, Mentzer would argue it wasn't, that's how fickle of a human being he was.

@jamesfioriello8741 3 месяца назад

Ronnie Coleman was high volume and high frequency and there was nobody bigger than him and that's what made him the GOAT!

@emmang2010 3 месяца назад

Dr Mike has spoken about this in length. When you get very advanced, large and strong, lower volumes become what work best simply because you can't recover from more volume. For the average person of average training age and even some natty advanced folks, more volume is better

@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916 3 месяца назад

@@LazarusLifts_ There’s more big HIT guys also...Jordan Peters, Dante Trudel, Tom Kiat, Russo Augustine, John Heart, Markus Reinhard, Jay Vincent etc

@G.Bfit.93 3 месяца назад

They train harder.

@mattacosta4802 3 месяца назад

Again. He's #missing a lot of info. In fact, it sounds like Mentzer was basically right.