A couple months back, Bernard from MHV sat me in front of a couple of FlaK towers in Vienna and let me ramble on for most of an hour. Now I get to return the favour, with additional activities in the background
1) The "Cat Person" Shirt is a limited offer and only available for 4 more days, you can get it at everpress.com/mhv 2) 4:58 "It would surprise some in the English-speaking world to learn that, although German schoolchildren are taught much about Hitler's rise to power and the Holocaust, they learn next to nothing about the campaigns and battles their country fought in World War II. As a result the name 'Kursk' means more to many Germans as the namesake of a Russian submarine tragedy in which 118 sailors died in 2000 than as one of the most significant battles of World War II in which many thousands of German and Soviet lives were lost." (Stahel, David: Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East. Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, UK (2009), p. 28) 3) 6:02 - Barbarossa Blunders - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A_3R-Rkn_98.html 4) 7:47 - Guderian Video - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UTgf3UHMBjY.html 5) 7:59 - Video featuring D.M. Giangreco - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-f9raqHGJH4Q.html 6) 27:12 - First Sino Japanese War - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CF0-gS816Ec.html 7) 44:56 - It should be NRA cap not NRE cap. Note that for most Europeans the NRA is something we only know from the news and there it is is usually portrayed in a certain way. 8) 48:27 - Barbarossa Stupid? - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FQdjGJJktfk.html Note that sometimes I had troubles understanding Nicholas, because it was rather loud there, which isn't really reflected in the recording. Usual microphone sensitivity is 60-65 points, we had to go down to 20.
Military History Visualized Yes, the NRA is certainly demonized haha. But even as a responsible gun owner, I would not wear an NRA hat because they are known for abandoning certain gun rights when they felt like it, so they basically “help the enemy” in exchange for gains when they can be made. But otherwise, this was my first time seeing you, and I think you’re very nice and I enjoyed this talk. I’m familiar with your videos though, and I love your channel. God bless
Heres a WW2 joke from the kitchens. A Frenchman is asked why the French are such good chefs, a German chef jumps in and says, "Because we gave them a 5 year apprenticeship".
What you fail to mention when you were discussing the weapons dealer thing is that: In Germany it is highly discussed among the public if we should sell weapons and many people are against it.
Too early into this video to comment on the content; but I do want to praise their special effects crew - I mean, they actually made it look as if the sun was shining, in England! Incredible!
Jan Mulders I asked him that on Saturday, for his hatch videos, it is not cost effective, because we only have the A30 and nothing to special, it has a great logistics collection but those are not that interesting for his videos
then make it interesting. Recently the Great War series gave attention to ww1 trucks in the bovington museum and its director WAS very enthusiastic about it. And rightfully so. Logistics is key to success.
I had the great privilege of meeting both of these gentlemen on Sunday. As a former member of the Royal Observer Corps I had a short discussion about the Battle of Britain (?) with MHV along with Montgomery's attempts to big up operations to maintain the rather fragile morale of British troops at the expense of his own reputation. As for The Chieftain, I hope that he didn't get too much of a shock when greeted by a fellow Arrser on the museum ramp.
Oh, speaking of Poland. Polish armour is the only one I've ever been in, it was during a summer camp in 1988 (maybe 1989, not sure) near Szczecin, in woods on the sea coast. That was my first time outside USSR, and one day we were on excursion to some military base, so we got an opportunity to get into and onto a BMP. I doubt I'd fit in comfortably in it now, but for a kid in early teenage years, wearing only shorts and a shirt, it was OK.
Hey, I saw you at Tankfest recording next to the CharB1 (Sunday). Didn't want to interrupt but was going to say how much I love your vids. Keep it coming Chieftain!
Bernard, we yanks love your accent....yours too Nick. We Americans find them bloody adorable. For some reason they seem to add a certain credibility to your work. Dunno why, they just do.
@Dave I have traveled a bit in Japan, and that memory of English classes is an interesting insight. I met quite a few Japanese who would speak English once we knew each other better, but never at first.
Yes, Chieftain, two months ago my Wife took me to The Australian Armour and Artillery Museum in Cairns, Far North Queensland. I still haven’t bought for her the big shiny diamond, and your segment is a correct interpretation of my misery. One day of pleasure, a lifetime of pain.
It's funny watching Bernard struggle to name the tanks, but it reminds me every time I go to a vehicle museum and I misidentifiy vehicles all the time despite being familiar with their history. Seeing vehicles in person is very different
The T-72 has a smoke screen installation called TAD ("Termiczna Aparatura Dymotwórcza" - "Thermal Smoke Creation Apparatus" - sort of), it creates smoke by injecting diesel to the exhaust. It creates a lot more smoke, so it must have been a cold engine. PS. Polish beer is really good actually, come and try it yourself. :)
Greg M Come to think of it we resurrected a Pontiac Firebird that had sat for some time. Old school approach involves squirting lots of diesel fuel everywhere. Let sit ,turn engine over,install new battery. All the diesel migrates to the exhaust,and when that heats up you wish you were in the boonies in a barn not in a shop downtown. Smoke everywhere,persistent for a surprisingly long time. How to really irritate your neighbours in one single step. Better off in tanks on a military reservation.
Did that with my OT-64. Started the engine pre heater after years of sitting. The resulting cloud has covered a nearby barn and it took about 20-30 minutes before it stopped smoking like this.
What I love about Overloon is that they also have a few vehicles that are veterans from the actual battle at Overloon. They were literally taken from the battlefield after the war and put in the museum. Also, slight correction: At the battle of Overloon the Americans (including the 7th armored division, the lucky 7th) attacked first and failed and then the British took over. I've heard someone at the museum say that at Overloon the lucky 7th's luck ran out.
Fahrenheit set his "zero" at the temperature at which SALT WATER FREEZES. He worked for the Royal Navy during the era of great sailing ships. Frozen water on rigging, masts, spars, etc was a hazard. Given the lower starting point, the boiling point of water was given a rather high numerical value.
Yup, a 50/50 salt/water brine. Which ended up putting freshwater freezing at 32, boiling is 180 degrees away from fresh water freezing at 212. Each degree is also close to the minimum average difference a person can discern a difference.
He didn't use a water/salt (actually ice/ammonium chloride) mixture to set zero because he worked for the Navy; he used it because, at the time, it was the lowest temperature that could be accurately and precisely reproduced in laboratory conditions. Yes, you could go outside in many parts of the world and find much colder temperatures, but as long as you had access to ice, you could produce zero Fahrenheit. Didn't matter if you were in Miami, Florida in the summer; or Miami University, Ohio, in the winter.
@Matsimus really? I'd put you up there with Visualized, Jingles, Bismarck, Chieftain and that new guy Potential History (which I consider an honorary up-and-coming member). Sure, you're not AS popular as the big dogs, but you're definitely popular and are an important guy in the world of tank/war channels. Few of them mention modern combat, and that's your main topic, so your really important to me at least.
I agree with Luke, your videos are very nice and entertaining/informative without beeing boring definetly also putting you up there with Visualized, Jingles, Bismarck, Chieftain
Well tactical loading is not only putting the important stuff on top. Its also spreading out the important stuff so losing one ship does not sink all your tanks, artillery ammo and what so ever. Then there are lots of consideration how to get the stuff efficient at bad conditions. Like all military things it looks a lot easier then its in reality. Great talk!
I'm currently writing a PhD thesis on the cultural context of the Indian Army's role in the First World War, which examines how racism and colonialism played a huge role in how it was organised and its Indian soldiers were portrayed to the wider public And still are to this day), so with my 'cultural' historian's hat on I can see how historians use tanks and other weapons to examine wider aspects of war, such as war crimes. However, I am also a 'tank geek' at heart and am happy to look at tanks as awesome pieces of machinery worthy of appreciation outside of wider political or cultural contexts.
34:14 I will never forget the 2 week holiday I had to southern england. Was 2 weeks long, not a single spot of rain, just sun and 25 degrees all the days pretty much. And first day after we left it started to rain. It really was a blessing from the gods.
In regards to tactical loading, it probably wasn't so much that nobody thought of it but that nobody insisted on it. I imagine that the reason no one insisted was because all of the ship's cargo masters would always tell the military that it can't be done, it's inefficient (in terms of space usage), you carry less, and you probably also run the risk of unbalancing the ship as things aren't being organized by weight. Then after so long the military brass decided to put their collective feet down, said to Hell with this and damn the risks, insisted on tactical loading because it made much more military sense.
Thats one thing they talked about aswell and rightfully so. As you stated in your comment the OBVIOUS idea now might have some maybe not so obvious but nonetheless valid counterarguments :D
Something I ramble on about ad nauseam, the "magic C-word": context. Talking about armor values, optics mounts, effective penetration at range in a vacuum? Leave the politics out of it. Talking about a campaign, battle, operation, invasion, etc. in which atrocities were committed? Include the events; they happened and they add to the context of the situation. Why were they committed? Who committed them? Were they spontaneous or ordered? Did anyone object to them? What effects did those acts have on the context of the situation such as morale, logistics, etc? Even within actions that included no atrocities, there are always politics at work, and they alter the outcome of nearly all human interactions under wartime conditions. That context matters, as does explaining it. That's not to say that you try to tell the reader/listener what's right and wrong--if you do, you end up with BFV and its backlash. Provide the end user with the needed knowledge and information, and allow them to draw their own conclusions.
I'd never doubt the motivation or question the politics, of modern German historians. A vital role in understanding the development of many modern concepts in armoured warfare. Thank you.
An hour went and gone...didn't even notice it ! Great colab lads, more appriciated. Hmmm, let's see... Duxford would be a nice setting for the three of you... .
32:24 thats one of the biggest reasons why im so happy he is getting access independently to tanks at Rock Island. Other than it just being best not to be reliant on others in general, but he is free to cover anything he wants.
On whether to go for a purely technical approach or a broader one, I think Max Hastings got it right in 'Bomber'. He included analysis of the strategy and decision-making of the RAF bombing campaign and also firsthand descriptions of the experiences of aircrew from 1939 to 1945 and a harrowing narrative of the experiences of Germans on the ground during the September 1944 bombing of Darmstadt. I think this balanced approach is much better than simple technical documentaries on e.g. 'the Lancaster bomber which won the war'.
Can you imagine being in a Matilda I fighting against a Panzer III or Panzer IV? But in a Matilda II, well that was something else. And the IS 3...... Thank you very much for these videos and interesting discussions.
Very interesting discussion re role of historians. I personally think it is an extremely difficult question, but one that perhaps is meant to be continuously difficult for us (and greater society) to evaluate. I like the notion of kaizen - instead of trying to settle the question on some rigid doctrine, to keep questioning ourselves and our beliefs and improve on our communications and work. A concrete example? I don't think one can accurately discuss the development of Germany's mid/late war industrialization/manufacturing in certain industries, aircraft, tanks, munitions without addressing slave labour. Even if one were not interested in discussing war crimes, it'll be akin to white-washing history because part of Germany's logistics and production failure was its ideological refusal to mobilize German women and society in rationing/manufacturing in a way practiced by the Allies. At the same time, if we're discussing a particular piece of equipment in a very specific and context removed way (e.g. this is a breach, this is the optics mount) - then bringing up war crimes becomes rather forced. I would like to note tho - no one should consider the atrocities and war crimes as "forced politics." I think the expected audience also plays a huge role in this. In many ways, I'd say it would be plainly irresponsible as an educator to show children the objectively good looking Hugo Boss designed dress uniforms and objectively cool equipment (opening the door so to speak) without some sort of contextual education. Without the contextual education? This is how you end up with Nazi cosplay in Asia or European/American children doing inappropriate things like going Bonzai while visiting parts of China.
The use of forced and slave labour can be of importance to specific equipment though, as some production lines and pieces of equipment were sabotaged by the people forced to make them. Just making up an example here, since I can't think of any specific one off the top of my head: say that a particular type of gun sight was in theory very good, but in practice only 1 in 5 was of good quality because the french forced labourers managed to make the lenses brittle or near impossible to calibrate. While I made up this example, I know that there were real examples of this happening (I just can't remember them right now at 4 AM^^).
@Jason Striation During a discussion with someone on Discord, Gibraltar came up--and I also said I wouldn't have gone into North Africa (which MHV did a video on, but I don't exactly recall the points made in the video). Of course, sometime after the fact, we realized Germany was eyeing Gibraltar, and the British were well aware of the value of the location to whoever controlled it, so not only did they heavily fortify it, but in response to Germany negotiating with Spain to get them to join the war, the British were planning on invading Spain in the event they did. Even if they did join--which was unlikely considering they were still reeling from the destruction caused in the Civil War--I don't exactly know how well such an operation would have worked out, but I have doubts it would have gone in Germany's favor.
@Jason Striation well knowing how the British scuttled most of the French fleet, they probably would have done the same if it somehow became inevitable the Germans were going to capture Gibraltar. Of course, there is still the cards of not just the Mediterranean Fleet, but the Home Fleet, neither of which the Kriegsmarine nor the Luftwaffe can take on (or, as far as I know, afford to take on)
Jason Striation well they would definitely have a very important strategic point and a forward operating base, but probably not so much the naval power to allow the advantages of such control to fully come to bear. It would have been interesting though, to see how German defense against American and British amphibious assaults on Gibraltar would have worked out.
Jason Striation if you take the Suez Canal, you have to cross through Gibraltar so convoys from North America would be much more important to safeguard
for the falklands, what I have seen said was the bombs on the Skyhawks were delayed too long because there was a fear that at such low level the blast would take out the plane as well. this afforded the RN with some lucky escapes.
I appreciate the effort to avoid politics when talking about technical aspects of war. The politics are important, but they don't always have to be the focus.
The problem is that politics are everything in history, politics drive economics, politics drive where the economics go, politics start the wars the technology is needed in, the politics determine doctrines in some cases
@@looinrims I agree that any comprehensive discussion of war must consider politics. I just don't think these guys are attempting a comprehensive discussion.
My two favourite WW2 (and other era) presenters, Nicholas and Bernard. Let me also mention Indy from TGW. Thanks lads, because of you I have become a wiser person.
Seeing the camera shake when the leopard 1 went past took me back to last year when i went and was by the ring side. Can even feel the air in your lungs shake
I find the issue right now with academia is that it's beginning to become plagued with people who are arguably ideologues so when you talk about weapons they have trouble being able to separate them from the politics of the nations that used them and their purpose so they don't see them as amazing feats of engineering like many history buffs do.
i would argue that because of the internal politics both civilian, and military is a primary reason why weapon systems are developed the way they are in different states at different times within the histories of those states.
pantherace1000 I think it's less an issue of the American need to mount machine guns on every surface or the Luftwaffe's preferential treatment to the Kriegsmarine, and more to do with a lot of people saying things like "MP-44? That's a Nazi gun." A lot of people focus too heavily on the politics attached to certain weapons systems and lose track of why they are how they are, and what makes them work.
The Tank Museum does talk about the symbolism of tanks to people. They can be an umbrella of safety if they're from your own military, or a symbol of invasion or occupation if they're from a hostile one.
To Bernard, I would say that you can formulate an almost perfectly equivalent English sentence for any German one (I'm always taken aback by the genetic similarities of the languages, and I think in both now). However the German language deals with those very convoluted, condensed sentences somewhat more elegantly in my opinion.
22:30 OMFG, Ft. Irwin. The stories I can tell about that place. I did three rotations to Ft Irwin from the 24th ID in Ft Stewart, Ga in the early - mid 90s. Ft Irwin is _legendary._ The turtles, the snakes, the sentries.... And best of all, YT Closed Captioning describing the sound of tanks in the background as '[music]'. It damned sure it.
I got an old Volkswagen, not a retro one (not before 2025 at least), just old. It's a sturdy car, parts are readily available and cheap, yet sometimes it costs more then I would like, as when something fails due to it's age, several things may fail all at once. I say this just for one reason - keeping these things in background in running order must be really expensive!
HUA! Blackhorse! Love the shirt, was in 1/11ACR 86-90. I go up to the museum at Point Alpha up in the Fulda Gap fairly often and give eye-witness accounts about the end of the cold war, trying to get permission to help clean up the M60A2 and M113A2 they have there at the museum.
As for combat loading, remember that combat loading is quite wasteful of cargo space - the normal way of loading ships until that point was to pack in to the max. Also. straight to the continent in '42 would have been difficult without the specialized shipping that was later developed for assault landings. The Torch beaches were a mess.
About the topic of combat loading ships for an amphibious operation, Richard Frank in his marvelous book on the Guadalcanal Campaign makes the following very cogent and valid point: Under normal shipping conditions, combat loading is very wasteful of space. It was not a simple matter of not realizing that the things you need first need to be positioned in the cargo hold where they can be off loaded first, or at least not ENTIRELY a lack of consideration of that basic concept, it was also the case that normal peacetime or resupply loading of merchant shipping involved trying to squeeze the most cargo into the limited space of a ship's hold. In doing so the things needed most, or needed first might be loaded in such a manner that those items are more difficult to get to just because that is the spot where they fit most efficiently into the jigsaw puzzle of a ship's cargo hold. Combat loading violates this precept, not attempting to maximize the carrying capacity of the available shipping, but emphasizing the end use and offloading requirements and limitations when loading up the hold. Thus the packing of cargo might involve a less efficient use of the space available, and thus an operation might in reality require more shipping tonnage that it would need in theory or during peacetime to makeup the difference. Early in the war, there was just a shortage of available merchant fleet resources and those that did exist were committed in various theaters all around the world, thus for instance, the Guadalcanal Campaign was competing with the upcoming Operation Torch for access to the available shipping tonnage. Once again Chieftain, the importance of logistics.
Also for instance, also from Frank, the ships sailing from ports in the United States to New Zealand and Australia were loaded to maximize the load of material carried in each individual ship and were not combat loaded. For the Guadalcanal Operation the ships thus had to be unloaded, the material stored ashore, and then reloaded to maximize the efficiency of offloading in a combat situation. The Marines realized the need for this, but the operation was put together so hastily that there was often insufficient time to do this procedure, or else the lack of harborage facilities (footage of wharf space, warehouses, cranes, etc.) in New Zealand or New Caledonia and a strike by longshoremen in New Zealand made this procedure either impossible or else it was only partially completed. Thus when the ships were forced due to circumstances to hastily depart the area and were unable to unload all of the cargo before leaving, many often vital items remained unloaded and on board the departing merchant ships.
your main issue really is getting to bovington once you land try and get a connection flight from london to bristol. you can get a train down to bovington
Ethan Thomson グミ easier to fly to London and then get a train from Waterloo to Bournemouth/ Poole/ Wareham/ Wool. Then get a taxi. The train and taxi combo will be the most expensive. Or give me a shout and I'll take you there as I live in Poole and go every year.
Another man I'd like to sit down and pick brains for a certain project or two. Then again, with time comes the ability to analyse, to dissect, to get other perspectives on. Some pretty big lessons have been learned, from ease of maintenance, to doctrine, to the effect of various assets. You might not kill a tank with close air support, but if that tank really wants to be somewhere else.... A day wasted is a day you don't learn something new.
Obviously there are going to be histories which are tied to the various types of equipment which may not be something anyone would wish to glorify. However history is multiple stories all happening at once that may or may not interact with each other directly or indirectly. This means that we can chose to learn history in broad strokes which give us a general understanding of what happened but removing the details of how (this is the history most people learn in K-12) or we can slice up history into its sub stories to get at the details that may not give us the big picture of what happened when taken alone but will build the greater picture of how, when recombined with other slices. Taken in this context learning the history and design of the various equipment be it tanks, planes, ships or what ever that existed during a specific time we rebuild the world one block at a time at that point in history, which gives us a greater understanding of what , how and why.
Talk about indignity. My M113 got stuck in a ditch at one point, and we had to get a farmer to pull us out using his tractor. :) He was laughing the whole time, and my lieutenant, (who drove it into the ditch) looked rather sheepish. :)
As regards to Militracks in Overloon: the next edition will be held on 18-19 may 2019. No guarantee of the Tiger II showing up again, as that took a LOT of paperwork this year, but I would encourage any and all to visit. They usually also sell tickets for rides on certain trucks and halftracks, have a good basic collection and a fairly large militaria market.
Aw, you know what would make a funny video? If Chieftain and this dude in this video did a drawing videos where they had to draw a series of different tanks from memory.
Wow! Escpecially with this spectacular background, this is a discussion format that I really want to see more of! edit: the real life camera shake gets bonus points!
The Chieftain. Nicolas, I was watching the video on Wargamings donation of the AC-1 Sentinel to the AAAM Cairns Queensland Australia. I have a tid bit of information about the AC III to have been built in Victoria from components imported from the USA. I believe from anecdotal information that the factory was to have been where Holmesglen TAFE College Main Campus is located next to Holmesglen Station. As a Pre Apprentice Carpenter at Holmesglen in 1983/84, we were told that the big long saw tooth roof building had originally been built during WW II as a Tank Factory and a Tank was rumoured to have been buried in the grounds. Never did find the tank though. After the war the factory became the Housing Commission Pre Cast Factory producing panels for houses, flats and tower buildings around Melbourne and Victoria. When that work finished the facility was turned over to the TAFE College to develop into a major TAFE College. Looking back on the way things were there at the time there were numerous site sheds and lightly constructed facilities for staff and students and teaching. From 1984 onwards there was was a steady program of building development to create what is seen today. Reading up on the Sentinel I came across mention of the AC III to be built in Victoria and things started to fall into place. Holmesglen was chosen because it was on a railway line and dispersed away from other industrial targets in Dandenong, Richmond, and around the Port of Melbourne. Such a factory could also have recruited it's workforce from that side of the city.. Contact me if you want any further information or have any questions. Mark
@the_chieftain First of all, Ilove your insight looks and opinions. Secondly, the Overloon museum is a place I've visited many times since childhood. It was the first WWII museum in Europe and was founded in 1946. First started just as a park in the woods, later with a building for displaying all the smaller items, and afterwards it grew and grew. New halls were build, the tanks outside were brought inside, restored so they didn't rust away in the open air. From the early sixties untill now, I visit this museum almost every year an am amazed about their collecion. Not only WWII but also the cold war era, the enormous LARC, the Russian tanks, the Red Ball express exhibit with all those varios trucks from forgotten brands and the battle of Overloon miniature display. You will need at last a full day at the museum, just to get an impression, go several times and search deeper. It's called the Dutch war and resistance museum, or just google for it. I love this museum, hope you will too :D
You had a question about Fahrenheit, it was based on a scale using a liquid solution of water, ice and salt in equal parts. It is extremely inaccurate because getting the salt solution to be consistent is difficult other than a lab environment. And since everything is measured by volume, ice has to be at a precise temperature, again hitting the issue of who calibrated the solution in the thermometer used to measure the temperature of the ice? Compound error was common, in fact it was so common Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit screwed up body temperature by about two and a half degrees. The scale had to be changed. But hey, thermometers are so accurate... nvm I am not getting into that can of worms. But yes. 32 degrees is when water is supposed to freeze and 212 is when it boils. Or you can use the Celsius scale where it only needed to evaporate the water and put it in a graduated cylinder of set volume, and you get 100% accurate temp reading every time without compound errors.
Hi, I enjoy watching your channel. It was funny hearing the temp 28 degrees " a heat wave in the UK" anything hot in Australia is 40 degrees or hotter :)
We needed to learn lessons in North Africa where their logistics were disadvantaged for both sides but lowered the Germans closer to our level. We learned a lot.
The advantage of the French Leclerc turret over the German Leopard is that the French turret has a autoloader which allows a two man turret which is smaller and weighs 6 tons less. This means they can ad 6 tons of ad on armor to the French/German hybrid vehicle. Plus it lets both countries save face and combine efforts.
Looks like we were in several of the same units. I had mentioned before that I had been in the 11th ACR. Now you mention the California National Guard. I was also in the 40th Inf. Div.. I was an artillery F.O. for the 2/144th F.A. out of Arcadia, CA in the late 80's, early 90's. My FIST team only consisted of two of us and we traveled quite a bit running the artillery side of the ARTBASS computer simulation system. My cohort Jerry and I were rated the best FIST in the 40th.
