Mill Vs Discard | With Spice8Rack 

😱😵 Decklists: bit.ly/3CiSha9 More Feature Match videos: ru-vid.com/group/PLLHPZ4KRrrKuccXZnRFOb50QBfe4unMR5

To me mill feels like an erosion of long term memoery, you dont realize youve lost it until you try and remember it. Discard seems like forcing your opponent to forget something they are actively trying to do through a spell that fogs their brain.

This game was so deeply instructive. My research will bear fruit before too long!!

This only makes me all the more invested for the eventual release of your "Ethics of mill vs discard" 2 hours essay.

If this isn’t used as a resource at some point during the eventual mill vs discard video then I don’t even know what I’m doing on this planet

11:50 "I thought this was mill, not exile." "Ooh. Burn... it's not that either." Spice8Rack cracks me up.

The most historic moment in mtg history

The one time that the life-paying on the fetch lands matters

I think this is the closest game of anything I’ve ever seen. One player a single life away from victory, the other a single card away from defeat. Truly incredible.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter in DnD, causes a form of temporary insanity. Hence the uncontrollable laughter. In Magic, the library represents your mind. Milling the library has always been a reference to insanity in Magic's history.

Big fan of the discussion from the players talking about their turns beyond the commentary while the game is happening

Fun fact: Otawara can remove Liliana permanently with her own ability.

I've always thought of cards in hand being conscious thoughts, and cards in library being subconscious ones, as well as memories.

Lorewise discard is removal of the mind and mill is warping of the mind.

The difference is one deck made my play group not want to invite me to anymore games and the other one actually got them to stop inviting me to games.

Nice to see that - after all these years - we get finally a scientific study on that mill vs. discard topic.. 😆

Oh my god I can't believe the first official mill vs discard video is here 😂😂😂 I love it!

I really appreciate the fact that you made Jamin’s life bar flash when he was hit for 0. It’s the little things

This collaboration had been amazing, all three videos so far have been excellent. And now, finally we get a bit closer to the most important video ever.

In Yu-Gi-Oh, there's an archetype called Lightsworn. Their entire gimmick is self-milling at the end of the turn. Lorewise, it's suppose to represent the Lightsworn as this corps of supernatural saviours that leave just as fast as the arrive once the catastrophe is averted.

Lol, this is how my mill deck usually runs! It either a) makes someone rage quit b) gets swarmed by creatures c) actually mills someone only to find they have for some reason put anti-mill strats in their deck d) once in a blue moon actually wins legitimately without someone conceding.

Spice 8 Rack is so amusing to watch and I wish I could watch them play magic all day 😭😭 I loved this!

Wow, unbelievably tense match! And please keep bringing Spice back for more things in the future!

My friend was a magic semi pro back in 2008-9 and regional in pokemon and yugi-oh. He taught me so much about card games and their mechanics. I'm so glad you guys did this, because this was the epic match-up between me and him after learning from him. Shout-out to Justin from Georgia!

As a mill player on modern and discard on commander, I loved this video!

I see 8Rack I upvote I see mill I upvote I see Spice8Rack I upvote I see Jamin I upvote Seems like this episode was made for me. Now do Pioneer!

Mmm, discard has many forms, and so does mill, there’s a bunch of green cards that self-mill, but it’s usually tied to getting something back. Self-mill in green seems to be about decay and the cycle of life, and self discard in red can represent a whole ton of things. The real Mill Vs Discard video would have to be like three hours to account for all the implications for every instant of mill and discard. When it comes to creatures that love straight up discarding cards in black there’s Specters, that discard on combat usually, and all sorts of rats, corrupt court officials, and now Virus Beetles that make an opponent discard when they enter, so there’s CREATURE aesthetics at play as well.

Please do another Urza's AI game!! THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN!! I re-watched it twice!! PLEASE!!!

awesome matchup! enjoying spice8rack's involvement in the videos and fun to actually see him talking about 8 rack

This video was a blast! :D Kinda sad, that this wasn't a Bo3 It was great to have Spice8Rack with you this week. The content was insane! :D

He did it. He made the mill vs discard video.

The beginning of this video sounds like something I would hear from Rhystic Studies.

Homie was channeling The Mighty Boosh so much when he dropped the lose cannon line, not playin by the rules.

Spice calling you a bastard in the background at 12:20 for top decking pithing needle made me choke on my water. Lmfao

The intro is unbearably perfect. Love it!

Like the background music, actually adds to the vibe without being intrusive

Tasha's hideous laughter doesn't seem on flavor, but the spell can be incredibly powerful and life-saving in combat encounters all throughout dnd gameplay. It's a little random, but could do a lot. That is similar in power to the card, so I like the application.

The more I watch Spice8Rack, the more I fall in love with the persona he portrays. Its just so FUN!

What broke my mind was Tasha's Hideous Laughter

Firstly, WE LOVE SPICE. Second, the hands and other on-screen reminders are a super way to help viewers track the state of play. Nicely done!

12:00 I don't know why Spice8Rack didn't used the Vision of Beyond to grab a land, cast the crab, second Vision and maybe put a land the other way is harder to use the Visions

I'm too conditionned. At the 1:38 smooch I smooched back without thinking.

From what I see, not enough synergy in the mill deck, where's the infinite triggered hedron and ruin crab landfalls, due to risen reef + Arcane Adaptation. Risen Reef + Arcane Adaptation + Hedron/Ruin Crab is scarily good of a combo.

I have a Black Blue Zombie Mill deck that I love playing. It's not the most competitive deck ever but I still love it. I have went to great lengths to nerd out on it. It used to be more pure Dimir but now it's the Mill/Undead Alchemist deck.

16:40 ... mill into exile ... has a lot of nonbo issues. It shuts down "drown in the loch" and many other cards that are useful in any kind of mill strategy.

8 rack is my favorite deck love the 8 rack gameplay keep it up!

"I thought it was mill and not exile... graveyard... wise.." "Ooh! Burn!! But its not that either! ;-) Ha ha ha! We have fun." Your humour really speaks to me xD Another great video 👌

Spice is the type of person that you would be afraid to sit next to on the bus, but if forced to, would likely enjoy it

I'm really enjoying seeing my boy spice8rack with you guys at card market! A team up I didn't know I needed!

Two minute intro was spot on brilliant. 😂

It's simple. Mill targets your library specifically and is about removing as many cards (quantity) from your draw pile as it can. It's about limiting your options by just removing as many option as it can without you getting a choice. Discard is either targeting the hand or library or battlefield to remove specific cards, or force you to make a choice you do not want to make. Discard is cards that allow you to look at the hand and tell your opponent to remove one specific. It's a card that allows the opponent to draw, but it will force a choice and you HAVE to toss a card away. It targets the top card of the library like mill does, but it's about removing that card that was tutored for. Discard is telling your opponent they have to pick a creature on the feel and either return it to hand or sac it, but it's forcing again a choice. You're USUALLY having to make a choice that limits your options. EDIT: Self Mill and Self discard/cycling aren't really mill/discard. They're graveyard recursion decks, and the mill/discard are just there to fill the GY up.

Based on Hideous Laughter and the difference between black and blue, I think: Mill represents inability to focus, or losing the opportunity/time to take actions (having less cards) because your mind is locked/preoccupied/dazed. At the end, when you lose to mill, you run out of time / are too confused to see any options. You also can't really recover from that, since you did lose the time spent dazed. However, you still play normally, because when your mind is clear it works just fine. Memory erasure is also mill, not damaging your mind but making you forget that options exist (rather than seeing them in front of you and not choosing them). Discard, on the other hand, represents insanity or brain damage, limiting the options in front of you because of reduced mental "bandwidth" or because you take illogical/inappropriate/desperate actions, eventually leaving your mind too weak to make any choice except what is obviously presented to you. That being said, the cards aren't entirely consistent with any interpretation.

19:50 I literally groaned "Dude, goddamnit!", and slapped my windowsill as I watched this. Spice, you fool, you should have fetched for tapped dual land, now you got two lands in one pile that can't cast glimpse the unthinkable!! That being said, that game was incredible,d that game was beautiful, I'm genuinely genuinely moved

For me discard is limiting card advantage and flexibility in play and decision making. Mill is reducing future options and deck efficiency/usability by reducing possible draws and interactions in the deck. All in all one affects short term (long term if done repeatedly/and immediate winning power) and milling affects long term (and overall chance of winning/endurance if done a lot).

I have been waiting, no, EDGING since your Yawgmoth RP video to discuss such things. THANK YOU FOR BEING SOMEWHAT MORE THAN LESS HONEST!!!

My god the subtle pause it takes to look at the 👌 I can't 💀 lov ya spice!

Thank you spice 8 rack for finally sticking to the bit.

Whenever Tasha's hideous laughter ends for me in dnd the target is usually bound and soon to be killed, much like someone finding most of their library missing

I really like all the people you have on your show. Everyone is really smart and likeable and has a unique personality

god I want spice to chase me around threatening me to play a game of magic

What’s funny is if he searches for another pithing needle that’s just one less card in his deck 😂

Unrelated, I want both of Spice's shirt. The swag is just **Chefs kiss**

Mill vs. Hand Hate is by far the best match up I've ever played.

The virgin Mill and Discard vs. The Chad Exile

I love Spice8Rack is rockin the Singaporean Kebaya. This pattern is usally worn by flight attendants of the Singapore Airlines. Awesome!

imo tashas hideous laughter makes complete sense because the caster seems to be having a ball XD

This is before I watch the video. Mill is from the library, discard is from the hand. So, while both actions result in a card going to the graveyard, discard is stronger because it unloads your opponents hand. If your library is supposed to be your brain, the spells you remember, then milling is like making it difficult to remember something, like it's on the tip of your tongue, like you know you know it, but it's just out of reach. It's confusion, not paying attention. It's being a little disoriented until you eventually collapse. It's a slow, background affect. It's having your memory taken and slowly going insane. Discarding, then, would be more like suffering direct mental damage. Waking up with a headache because of a cursed dream. magically induced mental function reduction. A strong blow to the head, a blast of psychic energy, your brain rotting. Since your hand is the things you're currently able to do, it's like the thought you're currently having, is being forced out of your brain, and your brain can't handle having another one without help.

This video was so powerful it couldn’t be put on Spice’s channel

Tashas hideous laughter just made him drop half the library on the floor.

It’s… finally here????

Unbelievable how close this game was. Either one could have won this game too, but I still love mill even if it lost.

Never knew I needed an answer to this question

The amount of times I've gotten my opponents down to 1 card, only to lose the same turn xD

He forgot to shuffle for the urza’s saga

discard is attack on thought, mill is attack on memory!

I kinda expected deep flavor and philosophy from the eventual Mill Vs Discard video, I didn't expect just a single best-of-1 game without even a discussion of decklists.

Spice figured out One With Nothing

I won a 2 headed giant game w/ a pair of mill decks at one point. You dont want to run exclusivly mill, thats how you end up in these situations, you want to use some mill creatures (like wight of presinct 6) that are better w/ mill, inorder to give them a threat to have to worry about. Even if you cant mill them out, its life pressure.

I think the flavor for hideous laughter is there. I'd get pretty scared if I began laughing for no reason, and then couldn't stop, and then COULDN'T STOP. It's like the fuzzy duck meme in that it's yet another source of psychic damage.

Spice is definately a theatre kid.

Discard is the erosion of your present, ripping apart and tearing away at any immediate plans and disrupting the foundation of those plans but mill erodes your future, closing doors and denying you options until you are left cornered and hopeless, your plans meaningless and your foundation useless.

I think Tasha's Hideous Laughter works flavor-wise as mill. The opponent is inflicted with laughter to the point where they start going insane, hurting themselves and destroying their library. Kind of like glimpse the unthinkable, you're messing with you opponent's head/library and ruining them from the inside out so they can't cast spells or they ruin their chance at casting spells. But I'm a weirdo and like eldritch horror madness stuff like that.

The main reason it's named 'Tashas hideous laughter' is pretty much that Tasha is an absolute meme queen and she thought that name was really funny for what the spell actually does. Like, i'm not even joking. My homegirl went from pact warlock to elder fae demigod (kind of), and pretty much everything she does is on brand with that. Her hobbies also include collecting rare but weird and mostly entirely pointless magical artifacts. She embodies a lot of the selfish but more harmless, for shits and giggles and nice things-part of the black color identity.

Oh I loved this game. My temporarily most loved decks are Discard/8Rack and Mill. I really get some hatred in my playgroup for these decks, but it's so much fun playing. 😂

huh neat, i actually won my first ever magic game against my brother with the rack because he misscounted his goblin red burn nonsense damage and i survived the turn with him at an empty hand

The prophecy of the sacred texts!

playing ashiok before those 2 visions... i am crying

I actually think the flavour distinction between mill and discard is that black discard is usually about changing the current mind state of someone (Thought seize, go blank, davriel cane, megrim, etc) while blue mill is more about long term modification and like stealing hopes and dreams or confronting someone with with facts or realities that invalidate their core beliefs (Thought scour, maddening cacophony, nemesis of reason, etc). In blue black they kind of both mix thematically, especially in black milling effects, but neither the color pie nor the rnd/design team are perfect after all. I do however think there is a distinct but subtle flavor difference and it mostly boils down to how permanently you mess with someones head.

He finally made it and it's not even on his own channel 🤣

Discard damages resources you have access to. Mill destroys resources you don't.

Love this show. This video should be a peer reviewed paper

current thoughts vs thoughts yet to come the thoughts queuing in the subconscious

Loved the intro soooooo much, couldnt stop laughing felt like i would faint

holy moly more spice8rack!!

I’m subscribed and Spice8rack makes it even better.

This intro was very instructive. The video was great keep it up! :D

I think playing the crab was a misplay, preserving life until you draw a wincon seems best

I agree with the Tasha's hideous laughter point, stuff like Feeblemind or Phantasmal killer would make so much more sense! smt hthat deals psychic damage at least

I fucking love Spice8Rack, really a joy see him here.

Before even starting the video, up to the 50 second mark, I come to the immediate conclusion this video will be about explaining how the Library (Deck) represents the spells a player knows, and these cards which discard or mill, represent the idea of forcing spells out of the mind. Even an original Mill effect MTG card shown a rock human head being 'milled' down.