The other thing to mention is the understanding and knowledge you gain building your own. And in the future if you do upgrade to a production machine, you know what's going on behind the covers. When it starts wearing out or it starts acting funny, your not scared of touching it. I've seen guys buy a CNC machine, a few years later it's getting a little backlash and they just throw it away, instead of replacing a ball screw, because they think they're going to have to pay some overpaid professional tens of thousands of dollars to fix it.
Good comment. I think most men who are looking to buy a Mill are the type of men who like to build everything from scratch... with that said we are here looking for a reason to NOT diy our own CNC setup lol. We need to hear one good reason why we should just buy an already converted CNC mill or buy a CNC conversion upgrade instead of just buying everything from scratch.. Me personally, after piecing out a 3D printer.. I already know its not difficult to buy and build our own CNC systems.
someone have in fact buildt every machine out there. if youre a good machinist and you have a good framework for your machine, you could indeed make the best machine out there. the thing you are saying about youre not gonna be able to make a living on a homebuild machine, is just straigh WRONG. and it says more about you as a machinist than what the video really is about
I’ve built one in a weekend. If you have all the components readily available and can spend 2-3 full days giving full attention to the build it’s not that difficult. It’s best to do it basic and get it going and than add in your bells and whistles after the fact. Typical motor and vfd combos take me an hour or two it’s really not that much work unless your fighting with table alignment issues. Hopefully that’s where you are pickiest.
Within reason, seems like the decision comes down to the three axes of valuation of time, desire to learn, and dollars spent. Once time is factored in, conversion is likely going to come in more expensive than bought, but going to learn a lot. Nice to see the SYIL machine used for comparison.
In your opinion, if done right, what would the PM-940 be comparable to? Could it compare to one of the Tormach PCNC? If you could compare the PM-940 to Tormach, it would be preferable if at all possible, as I am more familiar with them! Thanks
You just compared random cnc mill with random mill with cranks? What's the point? Why you didn't took harbor freight mill or knee-type mill? What is, forgive me god, SYIL, and why not another random crap from ali which comes in thousands?
Thanks a lot for this video Franco ! By being in Europe (France), I'm looking about some hybrid solutions on a DIY basis, about the spindle power I guess if it could be feasible & smart to use a brand new single phase 230 VAC brushed motor rated at 1,700 watts of absorbed power, which is used on angle grinders with an embedded speed setting. The useful power is rated approx 1,010 watts. Good news is that Bosch has used into this range of tools some improved brushes, twice the usual lifespan, they said. At the end of the shaft, the speed range for Bosch GWS 17-125 CIE professional grinder (developped for the stainless steel manufacture) is between 2,500 to 11,000 rpm (calculated torques from 3,82 N.m at 2,500 rpm to 0,87 N.m at 11 krpm), at the disc slot, which is provided with a "taper" based on a Metric 14 mm thread "M14". The price for a single angle grinder is 165 € ($191). Of course, the spindle of the mill aimed (the equivalent available in France of the PM-30MV) needs to be fully reviewed & modified accordingly. Best regards and thanks for this summary of choices !
If cost is a concern, open source bears consideration. LinuxCNC (formerly known as EMC2) is free and well supported by its developers and user community. BTW, Tormach's new generation of software is based on LinuxCNC. I'm not sure which Ethernet I/O you're using, but $300 sounds a bit high. I used Mesa 7i92 boards on my last two DIY CNC projects, which were about $90.
Excellent & very informative vid, just wish I'd seen it sooner ;^) Just converted my G0704 to CNC which was my intention when purchased. But my expectations of manual machine was, well, inflated. So as to not make a story book here, you've said what I always preach, your time is worth something...how much? Is it less costly to DIY? Absolutely. But there's a great deal of research to be done for various kits & components, where/whom to get them & not to mention there's Real work involved, particularly w/the Grizzly. To your other point, in doing so I've learned a great deal more about these machines, their functionality etc. Knowledge = power. It was rather enjoyable realizing the limitations of manual milling. So to the couple of comments that Buying makes more sense than DIY-ing,...only if you demand major or high speed production. Even w/the couple nic nax (amenities) I'm still adding I'm all in under $4k. And even w/the limitations of the quill & spindle bearings that will eventually have to be addressed, I'll still be under $5k. Of the CNC machines I considered, $6700 was the most reasonably priced & it's not as complete as my new setup. So my personal opinion (I'm not a professional) is jump in, get a lil dirty. Its worth it. And the sense of accomplishment while saving $$$ is well worth it. Thnx Franco & Happy CNC-ing RU-vid ;^)
Diy you gain more knowledge in they event of a repair and life of tooling ...work in production and have done prototype...most of machinery that worked on were tweaked and modified to suit our needs and again we did our own reapairs
Great vid! I'm not in a position to need this info, but I still found it very interesting and watched it all. :) I'll be referring a few people to this vid. Thanks!
Thanks a lot!!! This is awesome. I've stucked with my diy build because I underestimated the time needed for the build. And thanks for the suggested baseline cnc, never heard about it
Prices have come so much for home made CNC especially if donor is used. I have almost premium setup under build and all in price is well under $2000. With full premium specs it will still be under 2000. And we are talking about similar performance to Tormach 700.
Well tbh a PCNC 440 will be in the same region as the Syil and you probably get better support (also help on YT etc). If I spend 8k Id go with something a bit better known. As I just checked a new PCNC 440 with controller costs arround 6500$
Good video. I'd prefer to go DIY since I actually like putting things together. Also it would let me use a controller and software that also supports lathes and other machines which would be a plus down the road.
after converting a 6040 to linear rail with steel gantry and so on , I can look back now and say for sure , its not worth it doing a diy build unless you enjoy drilling and tapping hundreds of holes ..
If you ignore the machine cabinet and the mql system Ive built for my cnc Ive spend about 1800 on my cnc conversion (including the mill Ive miraculously gotten brand new for 850) so you can definitely get the diy pretty cheap if you try. Building the conversion kit yourself and using linuxcnc you can definitely get great results for cheap. But limit switches (at least homing switches) are a must have on any cnc
Agreed with everything.Im midway through the evolution to getting an expensive premade factory machine..What I have found was that the lighter the machine , the less rigidity and the more time invested to get it to acceptable operational accuracy , the more hair pulling aggravation when you realize the limitations.. Unless you enjoy the process thoroughly, the Diy conversions are largely a waste of time that could be spent making parts for money on a functional machine and recouping the larger investment.. I know people say " I learned so much during the build " and this is true , it might also be useless info in the long run though when you upgrade.
Not great advice. those on a budget with a need for quality should buy a used machine. ebay is literally stuffed with used cnc milling machines. larger industrial machining centers can be found for as little as $2000 for those willing to retrofit - i.e replace the old electronics with a newer ethernet solution. I am talking about a full VMC with a 6000rpm 40 taper spindle and tool changer. There will never be a shortage of used cnc machines while so many start-ups over-invest in new VMCs they could never hope to pay for.
Excellent point by point comparison. Can you buy the PM machines built by the factory as a CNC mill? Definitely would be better to have a mill with the much larger "X" . Where / how did you learn so much about the components needed to build CNCs. Good videos. Very interesting.
PM is not offering any pre-configured CNC machines at this time. But you never know what they may add to their offering in the future. For some reason, I've been obsessed with stepper motors ever since I was a teenager. My first project was taking a stepper motor out of 5.25" TEAC floppy drive and hooking it up to a Basic Stamp IC. I think the machining stuff was just an excuse for me to buy more stepper motors and install them on things! I started the RU-vid channel when I realized how difficult it was to find useful information on doing DIY conversions. Hopefully, I'm helping people more than confusing them!
You're definitely helping people like me that have always been a CNC end user start learning how to build one for home use. I've been a machinist, CNC machinist, programmer, production engineer for 40 years (yikes !!!). I'd like to buy or build a three axis CNC mill, or a super rigid CNC router to make some hot rod and boat parts for my projects, and also to use as a training tool for teaching my niece and nephew machinist / programming skills. Do you know of a well built 6040 CNC router that I could just plug into my lap top, that I can write programs out of my head, and run them making simple three axis parts? "X" travel in the 15" to 18" range. "Y" in the 10" to 12" range. "Z" in the 8" to 10" . Thank you for taking the time to help.
The best solution is buying a large mill or lathe from China (you cut extra costs and profit from importer, at the same time it is the size that plays important factor for accuracy). And then buying a controller for $700, and hybrid stepper with servo motor for total of $1,000. Add $2-300 for the ways and ballscrew. $5,000 for the mill or lathe, for a total of $8,000 usd, you can have very big mill or lathe cnc. Add the fun of being scared, stressed out, and then being proud for the accomplishment you did. Well, DIY beats. You do not have to factor time, because you will not be doing that for living except for hobby.
While I generally agree with your general mindset on this, I need to draw the line on going with the cheapest axis drive setup, I.E. open loop stepper motors. If you're going to actually own and use the machine, then stepping up to full servos is a no brainier, especially since Centroids Acorn set up is so reasonably priced. Other than that, I can at least loosely agree with your post.
Things have changed some since this was posted. Apparently the Syil X4 is gone and their entry-level unit is about $10K. The hard part of a comparison like this is getting something that is apples-to-apples. I've done my own comparison with the intent of getting at least Tormach 440 performance in a DIY machine. Still using the PM-25MV as a base ($1917 delivered) I get a cost of about $5141. That includes a double-ball-nut C7 conversion kit, Centroid Acorn controller, Clearpath servos, spindle control, all power supplies, all cables, an electronics case, and various odds and ends (like tax and shipping for the parts), but not any spindle mods or single-point oiling. A base Tormach is $6095 delivered. I didn't include stands, computers, monitors, and what-not to simplify the comparison. That still isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. The DIY unit has larger travels and can do rigid tapping, but has only a 2500 RPM spindle and no oiling system. The Tormach uses steppers instead of servos and lacks rigid tapping capability. The Tormach is probably stiffer than DIY also; it weighs a lot more. And yes, I know a better comparison would be to use steppers, but in this day and age I don't know why you would: the performance is so much better with servos and the cost increase for similar quality/performance isn't excessive. Before people point out that you can spend a lot less by giving up performance (cheaper ball screws, steppers instead of servos, etc.), that's not the point. I started out stating I want Tormach-like performance (or better). The point here is that if you want to make an apples-to-apples comparison between DIY and purchased, the cost difference isn't breathtaking. Are there any Tormach competitors in the same price range anymore?
It is hard to find good machines at that sub $10k price point. Check these guys out: www.novakon.net/ They are not cheap, but they are another alternative. Also, PM has a new mill they have begun importing. It is more expensive than the PM25MV but it looks like it may be the perfect base machine for a DIY CNC conversion.
Would a similar conversion work using a proxxon ff30. It in line with your budget price. German made better than the harbor freight stuff. Ive seen a cpl proxxons done but have no idea what kit to use. Thx
I like the looks of the wide column with the linear rails. In my opinion, this is the "weak link" in most bench top mills. I'd be curious to see how much deflection you see at the spindle when forces are applied in the X-axis direction.
@@FrancoCNC yes as I pointed out in the Kickstarter, the X direction is noticeably weaker than y, but that is true for all machines of this style. I was wondering if you would be able to help promote this?
On a DIY machine like the one I described, depending on your donor machine, the quality of the components and your skill as a builder, anywhere between plus or minus .0005" up to .002"
one consideration for diy cnc machine or diy conversion is 。 what type of machine exist in your workshop。a small cnc router can hardly do any help to do milling machine cnc conversion。。just an e。g。
Sir I want CNC machine for 3d design engraving on iron .My job basically coin design engraving on iron.so what configuration should be in CNC machine for 3d design of coin , engraving.
