This is perfect. I was gifted the osgiliath box for Christmas and decided to go with gondor. I love all the advice in this video. And those dice sure are gorgeous.
Great summary of the Gondor list! Especially the Shout-out to Eorl the Young is much appreciated as a fan of niche lists that still contains a lot of fluffy elements. On that note, is missed the Osgiliath Veterans and their combo with the brothers. It is such a shame that Faramir and the veterans did not get some renewed love with the new Boxset... Love to debate some armylists in the future with you guys (and throw some DICE!). Keep up the great work!
Yeah I totally forgot about the vets. They are awesome, thematic units, but really not that great for their cost. You don't need the increased courage (bodyguard is better), and F4 can be more reliably gotten from rangers and FCG. It's a shame, because the theme (and conversion opportunities!) is great
Great analysis, loved watching it! I wonder how you would run a purely tin can list on a competitive level. Would you still max out on shooting but with citadel bows? Take a second bolt thrower instead? Or just get in a few bows and focus more on combat units? Also, interesting that you mention the swift reload as an auto pick. I did the calculations on it once and it turns out that a bolt thrower with swift reload is actually less efficient than one without. Average shots go up from 3,5 to 4,47, which is 1,28 times more, while the points cost goes up from 50 to 70, which is 1,4 more. So from that viewpoint I'd say that, unless you have the 20 points spare with no other purpose, you might be better off either running a second one or adding a bit more numbers. And of course I'd love getting those dice 😊
I would disagree about ABT upgrade. Average +1 shot ain’t worth 40% cost. You want more shots, take 2 ABTs. Also 2 ABTs are much harder to play around for the opponent and do the job of forcing their hand way better.
It's an option, sure, but what the upgrade does more than anything is ensure reliability. 8/9 times you're getting 3+ shots, 75% of the time you're getting 4+ shots. With 2 ABT's it's both easier and harder to position them, and you're out an extra 30 points.
You always take swift reload on the bolt thrower. I run 2 bolt throwers as well with swift reload on each. It's hectic Never leave home without a Swift reload on your bolt thrower, they ain't 50pts they are 70pts, cause "say it with me now" you never leave home without swift reload -Sean
Fantastic vid man very knowledgable. I've always wanted to try a tincan spam army at 800pts, Just as many as I can get with low Teir heros, not sure it would be viable at all but would like to give it a bash. DICE
Honestly fortitude and minor hero only minas tirith is pretty fun. You can absolutely spam heroes and units. You end up with great numbers and lots of might, but you do run the risk of just becoming the punching bag for the opponent's big toys, especially at that kind of points level.
@Kevin van Ravenswaaij I'll need to give it a bash then. What hero's to prioritise, the same as the vid? Ill just need to manage their big toys with tincan screen or strikes.
@@jmaccsarmiesofArda at that points level you could probably run all of them? I'd still skip cirion, but the rest are all pretty good. Might as well make irolas your leader. Or take denethor anyway and hide him somewhere.
Irolas has March and Defence not Strike. With his D6, F5 and Bodyguard this can make him a viable alternative to Madril. Particularly if you know you are not going to play a Maelstrom scenario / Recon (for example in a 3/4 game tournament or a tournament where the scenarios are set) That being said I do normally take Madril 😅
Yup I completely missed that! He's certainly not a bad take at all. Though similarly I'd probably end up taking madril for the maelstrom insurance, since I mostly also bring siege when the points are high enough that I'm slotting in Madril. I'd definitely field him to try him out if I'd own him, but somehow it's not tempting enough to justify buying him+fw denethor. Hope that makes sense?
Love the Videos, you've Just recently been recommend to me by a friend of mine and the quality of your Videos hooked me instantly. Its realy astonishing you dont habe more subs. Keep up the great quality, maybe in a Mordor deep dive i would really appreiciate it.
Thanks man, I really appreciate it. Mordor is definitely in the cards. But I've only recently started playing it, and it is a big faction, so it will take a while. Corsairs are up first!
My army project for 2023! Perfect timing. These videos are so in-depth, I really appreciate the content. Wishing all the best for your channel. Please keep up the great videos.
Thanks for your video Kevin, it was very dice! Eh, nice! Question: what is a good ratio of points, warriors, bows and might? Is there a rule of thumb for this? Does it differ in evil vs good?
GvE always changes list building. You can expect more terror and numbers, and less F5 (other than Easterlings). Evil typically has more magic. So bodyguard becomes more useful, and taking a big hero is a bit more risky. You could try to leave boromir at home and go F4 horde instead, with lots of FCG, a healthy amount of rangers, and a frontline of regular warriors. Denethor is still a good pick, you just have to be careful with him. As for ratio, I try to fill up the warbands I have mostly. Always 1/3d rangers with spears, a few cav, the rest warriors and as many fcg as I can get away with. Following those guidelines you'll automatically end up with a certain amount of heroes and might.
So after a eigth year break (and lots of Horus Heresy) I decided to bring out my LotR Miniatures again. I used to play Easterlings and Gondor in War of the Rings, so I have lots of basic units and some of the old heros (Amdur, Khamul, cirion and a few commandsections). I am really grateful for your insights in both armies and will probably pick up the Dragon Emperor and the Rest of the FW Range. Really looking forward to get my hand back on a nice and balanced Skirmisher. Whats next on the List? What armies do you play and what will be featured next? Oh ye also DICE.
Next up would probably be corsairs! I only make these videos about factions I've played a good amount at tournaments, and it takes time to paint armies and run them a lot. I could also do a shorter video on the Eorl the Young list I mentioned
Denethor is Key in Gondor and becomes even better with Hurin in the list with his special rule about not giving away leader kill Vps so Denney is even more safe. Old mate Denny slaps hard with his 2A F5 S4 Mental, don't mess with him in combat. Fav saying with him is "gonna attack Denny?" "Cool fuck around and find out" Boz with banner is amazing and In my opinion is a support hero. Banner, shield and on foot is the best way to run him. Being that Gondor is a defensive army boz sits behind the line buffs troops and then you use your troops and other heroes to drain the might of enemy heroes, then late game boz pops out full stack and slaps everyone out. Ingolds is also a must take in Gondor Shield wall, no back away, 3 might, and striking. He is top tier at keeping the shield wall still and draining the might of your opponent heroes. 800-1000pts Denney Boz banner Hurin horse Ingold Is the perfect hero setup P.s. I had a whole essey written and had to delete alot hahaha P.p.s MARCH IS OVERATED P.p.p.s You don't always buy heros horses. -Sean
I really don't see the point of keeping bozza behind the line when he can just be in the line and slapping troops or tanking heroes. What are they gonna do? He's F7 with 6 might, 3 wounds and 3 fate. Horse is always worth it, especially on more expensive heroes. Even if they don't get use out of it while charging, it protects them from other cav heroes, gives them mobility, an extra wound against shooting, etc etc. If you don't need it in a specific situation you can always dismount. March is overrated, except when the scenario is seize the prize and it can literally win you the game 😅
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 horses make heros bigger targets and more of a priority Target and in most cases die early to shooting unless you hide the hero on horse. I've never found it worth it. Hurin on horse is worth it tho. Boz staying behind the lines It's the play style of Gondor as a defensive Army. You tank hits and might from your opponents heroes with troops and low point heroes ingold, Hurin and cirion do it best, mainly due to the striking ability. It's true Boz is not a killing hero or a beat stick, he is a hand grenade. Buffs everyone around till the opportune moment to jump in and kill a hero or something with his F7 6 might. You don't wanna be striking with boz unless you have to, such as when facing a base F7 model. you wanna use his might to confirm kills, which is why he sits and waits whilst you draw out strikes, moves, marches, combats with your troops and smaller heroes. Gondor wins games by holding the opponent up, so they can't get to objectives whilst grabbing VPs and Objectives. If your opponents control objectives you shoot them with, well usually in my case a Bolt thrower or 2. Once you know where Objectives and and what are that's when you decide What Objectives will I hold and what objectives will I not get but deny my opponent VPs. Though I have achieved many 12VP victories with Gondor it's an army that thrives on winning games with scoring the lowest amount of VPs possible. Movement and deployment are key factors in playing Gondor and winning tournaments with them. Sorry to go on a rant, as a multiple tournament winning player with Gondor I'm just super passionate about them. Keep up the videos mate love watching them whilst painting, especially these long form chats -Sean
@@NoobsandMen nah not to worry mate! I love these kind of discussions. I definitely agree on the low vp scoring aspect. The ability to deny your opponent VP's and just get away with a small win is great in this army list.
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 that's what's brilliant about this game aye. We can have these discussions because there are so many ways to play an army and it's all still viable. -Sean
Starting playing MESBG for the first time in 15 years this year with Minas tirith and this video is so helpful. My local areas normally play around 450pts and I'm struggling because gobdors heroes are either really expensive or really cheap. This has been a huge help!
I like this format and the way you discuss things. Very comprehensive and insightful! Pretty hard to make videos as a one man team but do keep making as this is encouraging for the community!
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 guest presenters would be cool, you can give your perspective on the army as someone who has played against them too. These faction breakdowns have been truly excellent, very in depth and well presented. Quickly becoming my favourite mesbg channel.
Why people forget about anbon and mablung? Those 2 rangers are quite good, and no-one is adding them to their descriptions. That first one gets 1 free might in shooting phase, so I would say it could be a must have
The fact that I forgot about them should clue you in about how good they are ;) They're not really worth taking. Which is sad, because they are really cool
A FANTASTIC in depth video on Minas Tirith, and just in Time for todays game night, so i watched everything beforehand and it really helped! I do really like the format, soo keep it up and surely this channel will continue growing to reach more people. Maybe a Collab with another big MESBG youtuber could Give a nice boost! Looking forward to the following Tactics videos, especially on Isengard and Rivendell, oh and dice 😄
Enjoyed the video. I started MESBG last year, and my only army so far is MT, and I have been struggling badly with it, so any advice is welcome. I never really gave rangers a try because they die so easily, and never kill anything with shooting (unfortunately elves are super popular here), so I am going to see if bringing a 3rd of my army as rangers helps. Do you think they perform better at lower points levels, as there seems to be a lot MT generally has no answer for at 800 points? Also, did I see correctly that you will be attending the event in Belfast in July? If so, I will hopefully see you there (and maybe actually be good enough at the game by then to avoid the bottom tables all weekend!).
Aye! I'll be coming to Belfast, looking forward to meeting you there! I do think MT at 800 plateaus a little. You could look into bringing gwaihir in as an ally to spice things up a little. Rangers are really good overall, but if your opponent has elven shooting they might still out shoot you. It depends on the situation unfortunately.
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 yes I have found that MT struggle at 800 due to the lack of 2 big hitter heroes (if only Boromir and Aragorn could be in the same list), but it will be a while before I have a more "competitive" army for 800, as I am currently painting up some Army of Thror, who look like they also peak around 650. Angmar will follow though, so long term I hope to do well at 800 with them! See you in July.
Really nice video, Kevin!! I'd like to participate in the Giveaway Dice, awesome dices by the way. Congratulations, you know a lot about Minas Tirith, now I have to crush them in the battlefield with your tips! I am excited to see a video like this about Rivendell
I always found Minas Tirith to be a bit dull, except for Boromir and Aragorn Elessar. No special toys (except maybe the ballista) or specialties. I still much prefer some niche armies. Then again, I do like Easterlings (and the video you did on them), which do also feel like a strong shield wall army without too many toys (maybe some Kandish chariots). Thank you for your insights (also DICE)
At least the Easterlings have brorgîr now, which gives you quite a few tricks! They also had/have khamul on fel beast as a potential add. Minas Tirith is just very vanilla. So if you're good at using those kind of units, you can do well with Minas Tirith. But it can feel a bit boring at times, I agree!
Again, very interesting. Learned a lot from it. Gandalf the White and Faramir can move to the modelcabinet 🙂. Would love to get my hands on these dice!
just starting to paint my minas tirith armies... so one thing I am wondering is who I should have backing up/supporting my Minas Tirith swords men with shields. should I have Fountain Court or Rangers backing them up? Both offer something different. any thoughts? [PS after watching a recent player win an international tournament in UK and small Tournament in Australian Ill be running Boromir on Horse with Lance-Yes Controversial but it worked for him so I would like to try it]... so FC or Rangers to back up swordsmen in a shieldwall (led by ingold) thats what I am wondering? Thanks in advance.
The answer is both. If you take 1/3d of your force as rangers of spears, you still have a few slots left in the back rank, since close to 50% of your force should have spears. The remaining gap should be fountain Court guard, and you put them on the flank. If you have the point you can run additional fountain Court guard to replace regular warriors with shield in the front rank as well, but that's personal preference.
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 Thank you so much. That sounds like a good idea, I will do that. This video and your help have been invaluable, i'll be watching all your videos this week.
Bro love the video keep it up but where did you get all your bits for conversions or are they all hand made? Would live a link to more picks of the army or bits shops
So little subscribers to such great channel! I've watched your vid on Easterlings, now watching this one... The army compositions and ground analysis of each and every hero and unit are sooo good, tips are useful too. It is really nice to listen a person who knows what they are up to and share experience in very simple, attractive and interesting way. Really enjoy these videos, please keep going to do next videos on how to play army X (at least please do so for LoTR armies, as Hobbit ones are not that much enjoyable - too many OP characters that break the balance IMO, like e.g Azog with F7...seriously? GW puts an orc in par with the highest king of Numenor in exile? That is bad joke at least).
These tactics videos are very well done, in depth, but clear. great content to listen to while painting, even if i dont play the army myself (it is my main opponents army however XD). also DICE. cheers from australia
Dont know if you mentioned it but for shooter infantry, wouldnt you want osgiliath veterans since they get another +1 fight on top of boromirs banner so long as theyre within 6" of him. over the rangers who wouldnt get the added bonus? Very new to the game so forgive if im not understanding
These videos are awesome, guys! They are very useful and interesting! Please, keep them going! The Minas Tirith conversions look amazing. Did you do them yourself? Dice!
I mean, those are definitely opinions :) Jokes aside, that seems pretty suboptimal advise. The idea that you need a cav warband is pretty outdated too, usually it is better to spread out your cav through your warbands. Ingold is better than a foot captain in every way. A horse is a massive force multiplier for a big hero for a very small investment, there's no reason not to put bozza on a horse.
Very nice and informativ Video! You are clearly very experienced! Please more :D I agree with most! So sad about Gandalf, i want to play him but he is just not competitiv... Boromir and Hurin for me are must have picks, because you will really lack the damage threat if not. Would love to see 1 or 2 complete example Armylist 500-800 Points~ you can recommend. I think most people watching these kind of Tactics analysis Videos would be interested in that, espacially because Gondor has so many Options. PS: I think you forgot Osgiliath Veterans. I never picked them yet, but worth a mention. :) Thanks so much for your work! Keep it up! Cheers
Confirming about many of my own thoughts about Minas Tirith, especially about rangers with spears and fountian court gaurd. Cool idea about Denethor, never would have thought of that. Great video, i learned a lot. Thanks.
DICE ... Excellent video. I literally just started with MESBG with the Osgiliath box and MT Battlehost box. Local club I found is running some introduction games 500pts. I played 1 game with the Farmir / Madril / Damrod heroes that came with the box. Thanks to your video I'm thinking 'outside the box' and juggling between (still 500 points). OPTION 1 Boromir + 4 Guards of Fountain; 9 Warriors Madril + 8 Rangers; 3 Guards of Fountain OPTION 2 Hurin + 9 Guards of Fountain; 3 Knights Ingold + 8 Warriors; 4 Guards of Fount Beregond + 3 Rangers; 3 Citadel Guard
Me and my friends have played this game for almost a year now, but 'it was actually quite recent that I bought my army. And I'm very glad I chose Minas Tirith. I only have the battlehost now, but soon I will expand and thanks to this video, I know what I'm gonna spend my money on. Dice!
There's nothing wrong with fielding the models you love! But since I'm looking at stuff from a purely competitive standpoint I have to point out they are suboptimal :)
Really great overview! One of my favorite armies to use for sure, Boromir is a beast and the amount of stuff you can work with is fantastic. Would love to see more videos like this for other armies. Checking out the ones that you've already done
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 yes. Gandalf, Pippin, tin cans, trebuchets. Thats the scene we want recreating. In the same way, we want Gothmog to have a "come here maggot"-style 2+ save against big falling rocks.
I play the legendary legion "rangers of ithilien" every now and then when I don't play army of gothmog and I have to say that I love faramir. Yes he is just like a captain but if you support him enough with some spear rangers he can be dangerous
Hi there! A bit late to the party after one year, but so far I have only Gondor, which I love and I've found your videos very very helpful and fun. I'm running on Sunday a 600p list which I wanted to try new stuff and make it a bit unconventional. I have Faramir with horse and lance, a Knight of the White Tower for intfantry hero and Anborn and Mablung with Rangers. I'll let you know how it went and I got into thinking of making an evil army list with Corsairs and Suladan. You convinced me haha. Thanks again!
I've been collecting MT recently and just built up a 800pt list. Got my first competitive game in a few weeks so going through this stuff has helped a lot. Great insight, thanks man!
It's a theme thing, and a bad one at that. Murin and drar still can't lead troops, and they're not worth it as solo drops. They're pretty good in iron Hills, though. Cirion is also not that great.
@@kevinvanravenswaaij4060 why can they not lead troops? They are listed as Heroes of fortitude and not as Independent. Or am I missing something ?😁 Thx for answering👌
@@Vikingskjegg because they are from the wanderers in the wild army list, not minas tirith. The wanderers of the wild army contains no warriors. They can only lead warriors when taken as part of the iron Hills army, because then they are part of that army, instead of wanderers that are allied in.
You didn't! I did make notes on them, but totally forgot to cover it. Sadly they're not really worth it in the army. They are very thematic, but if you want F4 the other options are far more reliable and do more for your army. As a 'elite' troop, they don't do enough. But they're still really thematic, so it's a shame they get outshone
I would love to see a high point Gondor batrep where you demonstrate some of this advice or at least the theory behind the list-building and the strategy.
Hey! Great video, I was thinking about starting my adventure wit SGB with Gondor I want with Isengard becouse I prefer the esthetic of it and I love the painting so far! So could you make a video on the army of Saruman? I’d also love to use your dice at the first tournament I’ll be playing next month. Keep the great work up 😊
