I've been an artist for 12 years and this is by far the most mind-blowing concept i have learned in those years. Literally took time out to observe every object in my studio after watching this video and it felt like a veil was lifted from my eyes! Absolutely incredible!
This was really interesting, and I certainly feel like it will help a lot of students! But, I feel like there is one pretty huge thing to remember about this lesson, which is Local Value! This Lambert Scale works great for very lightly colored objects, but remember if you are shading a dark object, you won't be able to have such a dramatic difference between the light and shadow family of values. When you have an object or model with a naturally dark local value, the value structure will have to be shifted. That being said, the Lambert Scale can still be used for shading the light family, but a tonal shift will need to accompany it to accommodate for dark local values.
@@Ellionart - I think it could work for other lighting conditions, but it would be MUCH more complex. For diffused lighting, it seems like you would just need to consider the fact that a lightly colored object would be very bright and you would only see ambient occlusion.
@@Gondohar glad I’m not the only one here noticing this. I have not even once done a drawing where I can go from light to dark so fast, if I do that it becomes flat and ruins my drawings. And I do a lot of realism so my job is 80% shading, even with my tattoos since I’m a tattoo artist as well. This lambert value scale don’t make sense at all. The more values, especially the mid to darker tones I give my drawings, the more depth they get.
@@Gondohar even the drawings he shows in the video doesn’t follow the lambert scale lol. They all have a very smooth transition, as it is supposed to be of course
it works with an object with one light source and turning off the bounce light because bounce light is just another light source but so much weaker. If you apply the law to every light ray. It will look realistic. This law is how we identify form.
My drawings were praised for most of my life, but I never got formal training, and I stopped drawing for a long while. I don't think anything I do is of professional quality. In some ways there's nothing more infuriating than seeing what Sargent could do at 19. It makes you feel like if you were ever any good you should be there by now. But who knows, negative outlooks aren't conducive to positive results.
This immediately improved my art. I can't stress enough how life changing this information is. If you're an artist, I IMPLORE you to try and grasp this concept. Great work, Proko. 👌👍
ive watched this video 3 times and studied every single minute of it in my sketchbook. your passion for teaching stan and featuring skilled artists is invaluable information and am indebted to you. thankyou
I have taken computer graphics classes that discussed lambert's law as an engineer and I can't believe I didn't remember it at all while learning to draw and shade. This was an amazing video, thanks so much!
I've worked in 3d graphics and shader programming a little bit, and I was a kinda surprised how the description of using planes at the beginning was basically the same as the math behind basic 3d shading. It's all derived from the same basic logic, in the end
superb video. Enough is said on shadows all over the internet, this video has revealed to me something fundamental about light. I'm a pro artist, and the linear scale conditionned my brain, until today. Amazing video, this opened a door into light. Thank you so much.
Yes, we want Dorian to teach a course on shading please! Thanks a million for this colaboration and sharing! I'm reposting all of your content on My media Proko! Greetings from Mexico City!
That really did blow my mind. Wowww. I sort of knew the tones near the terminator should be a bit darker so that there's a nice gradation from the light side to the shadow side, but I didn't know there was a science to it! And I also didn't know about "dirty" lights where you could mistakingly make the tones on the light side too dark. Thank you! Thank you for the step-by-step process as well. As an inexperienced artist, I always never know where to begin. I just fumble my way through until it looks right. But having a process will help do things faster and confidently.
This was really helpful. I noticed when I took my drawing class at school that Shading was one of my weakest points to tackle. I so would love for Dorian to do a shading course. :) Also thanks Stan for introducing me to these lovely artists the past decade i've been following ya.
"Yeah, whatever. I bet I'm not going to learn anything new" Then my mind was blown! Thank you for the great information. Loved the little cartoon clips in this too
This is what i wanted to learn and study in art school. Unfortunately, many of my tutors held a standing of; if you’re here, then your craft is adequate, so let’s focus on expression and ideas... which is fine i guess, but having attended that university’s night classes from the age of 8, the degree course at 18 is far from what i expected of the degree course... In the end i dropped out and continued to learn from books and my own observations. Thank you guys so much for producing these videos and exposing us to the thoughts and lessons from these artists! It’s too often a rarity that we get to see the utility of the internet actually purposed so effectively! Thanks a bunch!
I think its the best Art lessons, tips and Arts concepts channel in the whole web, cuz besides the proko didactics and very clever precise lessons, here we find a lot of professionalism, a very accurate sense of artworks and drawing knowledge and a lot of interesting issues brought by very nice artists that really love to draw. Thank you very much, mr. Proko, you really make a great difference in our fantastic world of Arts. Im very glad that there still good artists in this world like you and all the people you brought to your channel interested purelly in their love for their professions. 😁
I think there's a mistake. Considering lambert cosine law at an angle of 80° you should get 17% of the light. A 45% is more to a 55° angle. Or am I wrong on lambert law?
That is correct for the radiance, but I think he also takes into account our nonlinear perception of brightness. When a surface is reflecting 50% of the light, we interpret it as 75% brightness. So the “linear” scale he showed was actually nonlinear in brightness but linear in perceived brightness.
@@AdmiralSamStarcraft That explains why it reminded me of sRGB vs linear RGB luminance diagrams. It looks like the equation is something like cos(n) ** 0.4545 then (results: [1.00, 0.99, 0.97, 0.94, 0.89, 0.82, 0.73, 0.61, 0.45, 0.00]) .4545 or (1/2.2) is an approximation of the standard sRGB gamma curve. so.. I THINK that the values shown are specified in sRGB space, but as a percentage. That has some problems, mainly that it really only works for that particular color -- you can't just scale the values to get the correct curve for mid-grey, for example. You have to calculate where the color you want is in linear scale, remove the gamma correction from the curve, scale the curve, and re-apply the gamma correction. Well.. my conclusion is that supplying the values in the particular format he has, is much less useful than it looks. Working in linear color in your paint program would be a more solid way to address this.
I dont know anything ablout gamma correction or whatever but If you simulate the Situation with blender and select sRGB as a Display Device you get the scale he shows in the Video. But if you switch to "None" the values are the actual cosine values. Not sure what I can conclude from that though :D *Edit: Just realized the values didnt match for the lighter areas so I am very confused now
@@teinili I don't doubt that the overall conclusion is pretty much right, and think that the lesson is very valuable; it's certainly a trap I've fallen into. It's just that the explanation is a bit off.
I don’t understand where Dorian is getting his numbers from (?); doesn’t Lambert’s cosine law give: cos(80 degrees) = 17% rather than (3:09) 45% and cos(10 degrees) = 98% rather than (3:58) 99% ?
Talk about staying on your lane. He tried explaining the physics of it, man. But failed in some ways. The incidence angle part is also cringeworthy but you just have to understand to understand I guess.
iadtag look. Dorian supposes that all artists have got shading wrong in a subtle way, and then goes on to explain the correct way. the concepts are nicely explained, the first 8 min are all about Lambert’s cosine law. However, all numbers and tables quoted are wrong (the first 8 min), so i’m slightly surprised that (a) proko didn’t realise this; (b) that Dorian didn’t realise this. In particular, in addition to the mistakes i mentioned above, all numbers in the table at 4:11 are wrong, the correct values (to two significant figures) being, 10 -> 98% 20 -> 93% 30 -> 86% 40 -> 76% 50 -> 64% 60 -> 50% 70 -> 34% 80 -> 17% 90 -> 0% the so-called Lambert value scale at 4:52 is consequently wrong also, because it it based on the table the sphere shading at 5:07 also looks wrong (it transitions too sharply to darks), again because it is based on the. wrong scale the cosine function diagram at 5:48 doesn’t look like a cosine everything after the Lambert scale discussion, after 8:10, is excellent imho, although that was meant to be an add on.
@@wakabaloola The cosine law gives the radiance, but he is also converting radiance to brightness. I think he's using a simple gamma correction formula used in sRGB because the more accurate formulas make the values a little lighter that he states.
@RonFrancis thanks for your input, it’s appreciated. what is the relation between radiance and brightness? can you point to a reference? Dorian mentioned a cosine dependence, and if the said conversion you mention involves the angle it won’t be a cosine anymore.
This is the thing I've been looking for throughout the internet. This is like imo the most important fundamental to define form. With this law you can literally define any form imagineable.
Thomas Buysse rpsrally.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Staedtler-502-2mm-Lead-Pointer-Tub_data1.jpg this is an example but this image doesn’t lie, it’s that sharp! I have accidentally stabbed my self in the leg with it once and certainly felt it!
What I love about this video is that he explains a principle of science and light, then he shows how to apply it to a medium like drawing. Some teachers do one or the other, but not both in the same video. Thanks!
Too bad maths teachers actually don't teach it. :D You have exercises like this: Tom bought 200 bananas (who does that?) He gave 2/3 to his friends (lost a bet or something? Or is he friends with gorillas? I don't mind, just curious) Half of what he had left he gave to grandma (awww, what a good boy...) and was left with four bananas. (what?) How many bananas did he gave to his friends and to his grandma? - now, motivation for something like this is definitely high :D I already got lost at 200 bananas. I mean - WHY? :D
Yes, Dorian shading course please. I love things like this, full physics explaination before the tips and tricks. Stan blew by mind a year ago with lightest dark/darkest light but the way Dorian got there really made achieving that effect click.
Knowing about the percentages instinctively is one thing but to have it explained so succinctly and clearly was revelatory. I know this will immediately improve my failure rate.
Thank you so much, for explaining " the lightest dark is Darker than the darkest light". Before some days ago, I read a ebook 'reilly method of use of tone in figure drawing ' , and there was a paragraph, written down about *the munsell color notation system* they had similar tagline, that is " the Darkest dark of a light are shouldn't be darker than light. { Light, gray and light gray) ❤❤❤
well, there is a hidden factor.. 'lightness' and 'luminance' is different. lightness = L*(cos 80) = L*(0.174) = 0.45. author didnt explain in this video.
@@theonetribble5867 ?? cos(0) = 1. L is a formula for converting radiance to brightness. In the video, it was a simple gamma scalar which is fairly close to more realistic formulas.
Same reaction!! But I know the reason, I kind of knew this going-dark-too-early deep in my subconscious but here Dorian articulated it and now it is more clear to me how "perceived brightness was interfering with use of the linear greyscale tool!
This was SO HELPFUL! I never thought a 12 min video could help so much someone who’s been drawing/painting for over 15 years!!! How dis nobody teach me this in art school?????
I actually found my way into following that fall off naturally from doing studies, but even then this vid still blew my mind and made me realize why my shading was effective!
It explains so much! The reason art looks realistic in shading isn't because there's more shade than light it's because it's the exact opposite, one angle greatly increases the percentage, so basically if you want realistic shading don't go all out instead work it up slowly until the light highlights the drawing. It's either light or no light!
Great video, a real eye opener! I think you should add that Lambert's law holds for Lambertian surfaces only, where perceived value does not depend on the viewing angle...
Wow, its crazy how much more info can be conveyed with just a little bit of added shadows along the curve. When the gradient was smoothed i was like whoa. Def. mind blown
I believe the easiest way to learn something is to write down what to do step by step, show how you do it and then have the student practice it. this is the first time I've seen someone teach correctly. every single art teacher i have ever had has never ever broken down their process into steps.
I really thought I understood this concept until today. This was life changing as far as art goes, I've been using the linear concept, and now I see why my art looked off. The most helpful thing in this video, and something that I loved, was the fact that you used visuals and graphics in unison as Dorian spoke, this really drove the message home for me. I've gone to class and had multiple instructors say this very thing to me, but because there was no visual illustration as it was being explained, I didn't learn this concept, and it's hurt my art for years. Thank you guys for this video, it's wonderful to wake up and learn something new!
