Mini Lathe Carriage Saddle Clamp Upgrade - with ball bearings + bonus vinyl cutting project 

I know this seemed like a good idea and you are very ingenious working with the tools you have. I'm in the same position. However, I hope no one does this to their lathe. The following information doesn't just apply to bearings but also how tool geometry affects tool pressure and can also be applied to many designs you may come up with for parts or jigs. It's a part of learning machining so I hope you'll keep reading. It comes down to pressure, pounds of force per square inch of surface area (PSI), and simple mathematical principles. Consider the surface area of a ball at the point of contact with a flat plane. Ideally it's an infinitely small area (which would lead to an infinitely large pressure at the point of contact) but practically there is some plastic deformation in the ball and the plane. Let's be generous and say it's 0.01 square inches with only 1 pound of force applied on the lathe carriage. That's (1/0.01 = 100 PSI) at the point of contact. In practice, the force would be much larger. Even a force as small as 10 pounds would apply 1000 PSI at the point of contact. Now, granted, you have more that one ball. However with 5 balls, that's still 200 PSI per ball and the forces are going to be considerably more than 10 pounds. Consider an area of 0.001 square inches, that's (1/0.001 = 1000 PSI). With 10 pounds of force that's 10,000 PSI. With 5 balls, that's still 2,000 PSI per ball. Add to that the fact that the balls aren't rotating AND it's hardened steel against soft cast Iron. The more ball bearings that can freely rotate the better and, as mentioned by others, the bearings should ride against a hardened race instead of the soft cast iron. The point is that the smaller the surface area, the larger the pressure will be. This design will most likely leave dimples and wear a groove all along the ways. Conversely, the larger the surface area, the smaller the pressure will be. That's why the ways are ground flat. The point of scraping is to give a place for a thin film of oil to exist between the 2 ground surfaces, but the surface area is still very large and oil is considered non compressible. It's like having millions of ball bearings.

Man, you are living dangerously with some of the techniques that you use in the shop.

I appreciate the ingenuity put forth in making the blocks and the bearing assemblies, but I can't help but think that the hardened balls are going to gouge the ways since there is no bearing race to complement them, and there is no way for the balls to really roll instead of grind across the surface. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I applaud your desire to learn. It takes humility and some courage to show your work as you learn. It certainly invites others to want to help in positive ways. Most of these mini lathes have brass plates that slide on the underside of the ways. They're adjusted to be just tight enough to have no play, but not so tight that they have a lot of wear. Brass is used because it slides well on the cast iron, yet is softer than the cast iron so it won't damage the ways. The problem you will run into with your mod, as others have mentioned, is the concentration of pressure the hardened steel balls will put on the underside of the ways. Eventually they'll wear a groove in the cast iron which will require you to tighten them, which will then wear a deeper groove, repeating the cycle. It's unlikely that those balls will roll in their "sockets", but even if they did, they're probably hard enough that they'd still press a groove into the cast iron. More likely is that they'll try to roll, but bill grind against the set screws and develop pitting. The pitting will eventually meet up with the ways and then really do some damage (sharp edges of hardened steel, after all, are what we use to cut metal on these machines). I'd recommend finding some 3mm brass stock that you can place between the balls and the ways. Grind some detents into the brass stock for the balls to press into and sand the top of the brass stock flat and smooth where it meets the underside of the ways. That'll provide a much more rigid setup that won't damage the cast iron and it'll hold its position far longer as well. For making flat surfaces I'd start by watching Dan Gelbart (all of his videos are essentially a requirement for new machinists): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cwdoUjynpEk.html

You got Moxie kid. Most of the guys who criticize you probably wouldn't even tempted to do what you did. So don't take it to heart. You did a good job.

I am loving these videos!! I just got a 1967 south bend 9" lathe as a high school graduation present, and the sort of beginner projects like thumb screws are just what I needed to learn the ropes!

A unique and well executed solution for a common problem. 3ish years later I would like to know how well it has survived the test of time.

Great idea to improve stability of carriage. Now the cross slide, these lathes are very prone to chatter due to lack of rigidity

Always nice to see people make things with the tools they own. Not everyone has access to high end machinery nor is a professional machinist. Weather it works in the long run or not, at least you tried. Good job dude!

Love the jaunty angle of the To Motor electrical socket. Gotta build character into stuff. I admire your determination.

Great ingenuity but this is a bad approach. Not only are the balls too hard, they're essentially point contacts and you'll run into trouble with both excessive wear and possibly Brinelling. I suggest going back to flat plates and using shims to set the clearance. Also, those clearances are way too big. For comparison I just checked my 6" Atlas lathe that was built in 1941. At the most worn place on the bed I got half a thou (0.013 mm) movement at the rear and one and a half thou at the front -- which is too much, I'll be taking some shims out of the front soon (this lathe was built with laminated shims in such places that can be peeled off a layer at a time as things wear. I think the layers are a thou thick). Too-large clearances will contribute to chatter, tool dig-in, poor finish, maybe poor dimensional control.

I've been a machinist for 40 years. And I say "Well Done".

Nice idea. Love to see people having a go at stuff. Not sure ball bearings on way is a gd idea. Some sort of brass adjustable gripper would have been less harsh

Nice work. Note the horizontal set screw can inadvertently tighten enough to bias the carrier backward direction can premature wear the V rails on the bed and carriage.

You shouldn’t be grinding aluminum with an angle grinder, aluminum clogs the cutting/grinding wheels, and can cause them to shatter

Don't use an abrasive disc (or grinding wheel) on aluminum. The Al gets embedded in the wheel, expands from heat, then POW! Half your head is gone and you're in a closed casket. When a grinding wheel explodes it is neither subtle nor gentle.

a suggestion. when cutting alloy with an abrasive disc ,pre clog the cutting edge with bees wax. it cuts as clean as brass. no bogging or melting. just make sure you have safety glasses on. it slings wax.

You own a lathe mild steel makes great transfer punches for aluminium and you can make them in ten minutes for a perfect fit to any size for aluminium brass etc.. and just a thought for next time, you have a metal cutting bandsaw you could have cut out the section a lot easier neater and less effort than with a grinder and files apart from those suggestions you did a great job and thank you for the ideas

you can actually use the router either on the table or handheld to cut aluminum very precisely, which is what I do since I also don;t have a mill cut the bulk of the material out using the jigsaw / bandsaw / drill press, and then sneak fit or follow the straight edge / template to route the remaining uneven edge

Nice bit of work Tim, I like your innovative approach to problem solving, great work

The smoke when cutting aluminum is because the cuttings get stuck, due to the oil you use. cutting, tapping, drilling and turning aluminum (and bronze) you should have used methylated spirit, or dry no oil. tip from a metal worker. it's more for cooling than for lubrication.

The idea on the dollar, the result on the cent. It's simple, the area of contact with the guides of the machine point, so the balls quickly gnaw through the grooves in them. And the guides of this machine are not hardened, and you will often tighten the screws. Here it is most expedient to install flat wedges of bronze. With Respect from Russia...

I have seen a drill press used as an ad hoc mill. all you might need is a precision table, which you could build. I look forward to seeing the finished product. Good luck 👍

that balls will rub grooves in the rail after some time i guess, i suggesto use real bearings instead. Best are needle bearings for that case (8mm ones). You forgot to say how bad was the movement before your build , 4mm ?

you rock! Keep doing what you do! Though this exact improvement is... arguable. All’s been said in previous comments: one point contact, wearing off and so on. And .5 mm is huuuuge. I made it Steve Jordan’s way, only using steel plates instead of brass and got .05 play and that’s a lot too, but the lathe got tight spot near the chuck so it binds there being more tight. You should really consider switching to thick brass plates, search that. Btw, no milling required: just stock cut to length, drilled and tapped.

oh by the way, that u shaped thingy there, you can use a jigsaw, i use it even for mild steel with no problems. takes a while but its still quicker than by hand. i also got myself a band file, that was really cheap and works great for purposes like that

Starting out this is how many of us have to do things. It sure makes me appreciate the tools and machines, as I slowly acquire them. I'm trying to acquire a 4x6 band saw myself, I spend a ton on cutting wheels and it just messy and noisy . Little by Little Ill get there! Nice video brother! I will be replicating this on my mini lathe!

Nylon grubscrews might be a better solution than hardened steel ball bearings

i think than the side bearing is useless, the v-groove is here to remove the left-right play, you just have to use bearing under the bed and when bearing "push down" the v-groove, all play his normally removed! ^^

Nice work. Cutting aluminum with an abrasive disc doesn't work as well as just using a carbide blade with some wax on it. Ideally the blade would have a negative hook. I have access to UHMW scrap and use it for sliding surfaces. Seems to last a long time.

What happens when you are cutting in the z direction and one of those ball bearings rolls over a chip?

I think I have seen suitable cabinet handles in the hardware department essentially the same as what you've made.

Nice Upgrade, looking forward to seeing more!

You remind me an other machinist channel. Before the mill were created, they used the lathe to do milling jobs. Did you knew that? You could have waited for the transfert punchs before making this video. And you could have found a lathe/mill vice attachement that replace the tool hollder on your mini lathe.

Tim, You can put a small vise on the lathe compound and a end mill in the chuck and mill on the Lathe! LMS sells a vise mount Just for this.

Can't believe you used the bandsaw to cut the Ali, then turned to a grinder to remove the centre -butchery! Far better to have used the bandsaw, corner to corner then remove the remaining triangle for a better finish. You did similar with the bandsaw on the circular cut! Also oil isn't a good lubricant for working aluminium, WD40 or even turpentine substitute are better.

well done mate 🎉

I got a milling attachment for my mini lathe just to get me by till I can afford a decent mill. It would have worked great for making these

Certainly some ideas there, if not the specific execution. There is a reason gibs are frequently made from brass.

Appears to be the same tools and construction methods used that the Chinese mini latches were originally built with

Hi Tim , I realy enjoyed watching all your videos ,it realy gives me a great idea of how to modify and repair equipment and tools ,, tks Pal ..

4 years later, how is this working out still?

Thanks for the video. You demonstrate how we can upgrade our lathes.

Здравствуйте! Идея,конечно,хорошая,но площадь касания шариков маленькая,быстро появится лювт,в месте касания шариков на станине будет борозда.

Enjoying these videos, I was thinking you could have used your lathe as a mill for this job.

I love how he replaced trash, with trash

Great video the only thing I would have done is use 5or 6 ball bearings equally spaced apart to distribute the force better a little bit of advice never cut aluminium with an abrasive disc it’s creates fine aluminium particles that when breathed in settle in the lungs causes long term respiratory problems in the future other than that I like the idea of the saddle plates you have made just a redesign on the use of ball bearings would be good all the best

Do the same on the back as you did on the front. Eliminate the side adjusters, they are doing more harm than good. You need down pressure on the carriage on front and back.

I dont know the application for Loctite 242 or the special abilty but im pretty sure it wont harden out if you grease the contact surfaces for the screw at 14:37. Normally you degrease parts when you use glue on them. And i also think you dont need the saddle clamp on the side. Just use the other 2 to pull it down. The one on the side will just increase the wear on the triangle guide. In general i would rework this concept. It is too tight. Nice video, music and editing. Your effort is enorm.✌🖒

Isn't the whole point of ways is to spread out the contact over a large area? Also, my understanding is that grease is always better for bearings than oil.

Super novel idea- I love it! Might try doing this on my own 7x12, maybe with some HDPE or roller bearings as well suggested in the comments.

Nice upgrade, I just watched a few of your lathe videos, I'm looking to get one after I move, thanks for sharing all the information.

complimenti ai fatto un vero affare con questo tornio Comprato per aggiustarlo bravo saluti

cool concept, good job man. it was a little rough there for a minute with that angle grinder, but you pulled it off ;)

Won't spheres that are harder to mark the bus?

Sorry did I miss it or didn't you state the size of the aluminium you used for this nice mod, also what size b/bearings did you use?

You make excellent videos.

great video. please do not use an abrasive disk to cut aluminum the wheel can explode

Anyone suggest that you just get a third axis attachment while saving for a mill?

PHwaa thats some pretty trick stuff you did with that, Id reckon that maybe with all the mods you have done here when you get your Mill you may as well make a larger more precise Lathe!

when I listen to these videos, I pretend Napoleon dynamite is narrating.

I would not recommend grease as a lubricant since it will trap particles and become a lapping compound.

Good little modification there. How has it lasted over the years ? Maybe I should do this to Warco WM180

Why not just cut the 2 aluminum piece off at the bandsaw?

Very good and cleaver job Thancks for share !!!

Also a mistake to put the back balls in, as your overriding the v at the front

This will wear out the lathe tracks as the balls are harder than the track material. This will ruin the whole thing.

Two things. You need to make the switch to a cold cut chop saw. The time it saves in making a straight cut is worth it alone. Second while I think all of these upgrades are cool don't you think when you consider time and material costs you would have been better off buying a better lathe?

Great video!

honest ?! I would not have done it that way, with the balls on the underside you only have one point contact, the forces that will work there are no longer distributed over the entire surface, there are better solutions. I do not go into that now as a German it is not easy for me to explain that in English. I have the problem solved with brass and scrape as well as by adding shims or spy plate.

I don't understand how this works. The bearings are on the side and bottom of the ways? They're not taking the full-on weight of the saddle. Does this actually work? Maybe I just don't understand your design.

Thanks, Whats the name of the Ruler you have there? never seen one of them before.

"What's this extra hole?" --- For carriage lock.

is it have anti baklash nuts on lead screws? if not, then it will be good next step to level up your lathe

Nice video! How did you get your angle grinder to effectively cut aluminum though, in my experience the blade gums up quickly with aluminum dust and stops cutting much at all. Thanks!

I give your mods about six months before you buy another lathe. No fault of the machine, just that no thought was put into area of contact. Maybe you have a total of a sixteenth of a square inch, if that much, against the full area of the flat gib you apparently didn't like. Hard balls against soft cast iron, oh, yeah.

"TINA, COME GET SOME HAM!"

What did you ever do about the tailstock not being exactly centered?

Clearly this is the next Clickspring :)

01:09 grinding disk not cut off disk.

You could have cut out that U shaped piece with the band saw... much better than the angle grinder.

I would have used Teflon blocks.

Just curious, has three years taught you anything? Like slow down??

What happens if you 3D print those parts instead?

sei genio ottimo!

Fastest way to remove metal as I understand is with a saw or drill,

Ó canal ferreira motos estamos acompanhando tudo 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷👍👍👍👍👍👍

Half a mill play only …. back to the drawing board.

Using bearings is a bad idea as they are probably hardened and will cause wear grooves along the underside of the bed ways. Also you have limited the contact surface to those few points which may have been an improvement from what you had before but it will eventually be more of a problem down the road as the bed ways develop grooves. Here is an link to an "improved" solution: www.toolsandmods.com/lathe/mini-lathe-saddle

good job

Wouldn't it have been easier to make a big capitol " i " then cut it in half? Then all your cuts would have been from the outside and one cut up the middle to separate the two halves.

What is song name at about 3:50

If you want to cut Allu with a friction saw use wax on the blade first

Bravo Türkiye İzmir selamlar ve abonelik ❤

Que trabajo mas sucio

So just one question. Is it in the mail yet? Lol great work in my opinion.

The sooner you ditch those " improvements " the better chances the lathe will not be damaged. Look at how others have tackle this problem. Like brass bearing.

16 minutes of documenting the execution of a major brainfart.

Would have been easier to cut the ally using just the bandsaw…

I've watched a couple of your videos and videos by others on these Chinese mini lathes. I wanted one but it seems to me people work on the lathe as much or more than they do work with them. Maybe I don't want one after all.