@@Atreid3s it will but it's not winning the war singlehandedly. Every extra platform counts, and an extra 20+ modern fighter jets capable of carrying any ordinance the French feel like shipping over can go a long way
@@goddepersonno3782 getting only 20 of a totally new plane, which totally different parts supply chains, totally different maintenance training, and different pilots training is probably actually worse and even more of a waste of time than not getting them at all. Look at the 30 Abrams the US has given the kholkhols. 5 of them werr captured in around a months time, and the US banned them from using them in the front lines anymore...
@@Broadsword999I was meaning French instructors have experience with this kind of training program, not that India would aid in it. Sorry for the confusion.
@@terrynewsome6698 just watched last world caroll channell. As there are totaly differend doctrines west and east thinking is totally different. Ukrainians need new generation of pilots made from ground up to pilot wesetrn aircraft. They are some 10 years too late. And nubers of theese aircraft are too symbolics.
Ed, you're knocking it out of the park, amigo! Where did this come from? This is absolutely first-rate content. I click on this channel for aviation history, but this little piece is right up there with the best current coverage on Ukraine. Well done!
The main issue there is with supplying Gripens to Ukraine is that there's only one manufacturer for them, working already at capacity, and Sweden kinda needs them. The Mirage 2000 has already a successor and is being replaced, plus France already had set up manufacturing capacity to sell them to India, so they are a simpler cost to absorb. A bit like the old M1 Abrahams that the US is essentially sending from storage to Ukraine after a bit of modernization instead of sending them from storage to a scrap pile.
We're giving them old -39 Gripen C's delivered 15 years ago. Manufacture is busy with the E. Embraer is also full steam/on schedule with getting up the Brazilian E line. We have more 39 C's than our current need. I promise you, there is nothing in Sweden that's delaying Gripen. We do not talk about the elephant in polite company.
The U.S. doesn’t scrap old Abrams. The oldest ones in storage get torn down and remanufactured into newer model tanks or engineering vehicle. Keeping the force as modern as possible, and keeping the workforce knowledgeable on how to manufacture them in a time of war.
Ed I think it’s even more personal than the Africa thing. Macron went and met with Putin leading up to and worked to negotiate a settlement during the beginning of the war. I suspect he was lied to and feels slighted by Putin personally
Being Swedish I am very annoyed that the Mirage will be donated before the Gripen. We have at least 60 Gripen C's in storage, and the Gripen C is in the process of being replaced by Gripen E. As for the commenter saying we need Gripens, yes we do. But we have more of them than we need ourselves. The older Gripens will be replaced by newly built ones anyway. Plus all of our neighbours will help us if necessary. The Swedish prime minister did repeat today that Gripens might be donated later though*. So it's not over. Ukraine is a big country. They need every Western fighter jet that they can get. (*There was a meeting with the prime minister and NATO's Jens Stoltenberg today).
You know what else Stoltenberg said? That the view of NATO is there is no threat of expansion of the conflict beyond Ukraine... Tacitly admitting all of this waste of life and resources is FOR NOTHING!
Doesn't exist any more. The Russians gave the members the opportunity to join the Russian Army or be sent to prison. In a move that surprised noone, the vast majority opted for the move to become part of the Russian military directly. They have since been used to the point of total loss at the front ever since, no doubt on purpose to make sure they are never in a position to play the coup card ever again.
Far more useful for Ukraine than the F-16s in my opinion. The Mirage has an integration package able to use Ukrainian produced munitions, while the F-16 is dependent on imported supplies. This makes the Mirage a better choice, both for near term and post conflict.
The biggest problem I've ever had with America sending military aid getting involved in war with another country is our politicians send equipment and men to fight but then the politicians want to tell them how to do it and put major restrictions on them which is quite frankly, BS
I hope the Mirages don't take as long to get there as the F-16s. Seems like we promised them the Vipers about five years ago, now, and the war is only in its third year. Way to go, Macron. Ukraine needs help. NOW.
Their FL is *BUSY* with other commitments. The absolute most you *might* expect is that the French deploy it to the western part of the country for security duties to allow the Ukrinaian units there to be deployed to the front, and if *that* sort of extreme situation were in play then you'd see the Polish and Romanians in that functional role long before you ever saw the French.
Very interesting Ed . Well done to President Macron for his commitment , however this was concluded . It's one more thorn in the side for Putin . Thanks Ed . Let's hope that meglomaniac Trump lose's . But you never know 2 meglomaniacs could bring peace ..........hold the front page .......but don't uold your breath ! Thankd Ed
The Grippin would have been a better choice, some models could be in theory fitted with a radiation jamming pod so in theory you could do Wield Wiesals moves
There are an awful lot of AMX30 (of all types, tank, AA, arty, recovery) and AMX10P in storage, along with various AA and arty systems that France could send that would be more immediately useful. I suspect Saudi Arabia could be easily convinced to let the US buy, on behalf of Ukraine, their own French-built equipment that's in storage too - AMX30, AMX30AA, AMX-Crotale, AMX10P and variants. There's enough of that for a full US-TOE armoured division and another fully armoured mech infantry division.
Very true, Ive been saying the same thing. Also Challenger 1s are available in significant numbers from Jordan. I suspect we will see AMX 30 Leopard 1, Challenger 1 and M60s popping up in large numbers soon.
PS - I am Ukraine’s biggest supporter, but the odds of this jet is flying in Ukraine within the next 12 months is near zero. I’d put the time frame more along the lines of 16-24 months and only then if civilian contractors are made available (or, more unlikely, active military maintainers).
Something seldom mentioned is that a lot of the brains behind the old Soviet military resided in Ukraine. The Russian record of getting new weapon systems actually produced and into service is rather miserable. Even if Ukraine only receives cast offs I like their chances in a war of attrition.
As this is a new video and likely to gain some views: I really urge people to buy Ed's book. Don't get put off by the title - it's accurate but only in a sort-of way and I'd say it was more of a sideline to the main narrative. I bought it last week as an unabridged audio book from Audible and killed the whole 12+ hours in just five sessions. At first I couldn't shake the narrator's voice because I mentally kept expecting to hear Mr. Nash's voice but that soon passed. If you want to know how the Kurds dealt with ISIS on the ground and the daily problems/logistics/etc. they ran into, along with their views on the foreign fighters that fought with them, then you can't go wrong with this. NOTE: THIS IS AN ENTIRELY UNSOLICITED REVIEW/COMMENT.
This could be of long term use (as in making up a component of its Air Force after the war) and then only if it’s the “entire” remaining number of the small amount they have left. In the short term, it’d just be a logistical headache. RE: the Olympics, it’s ironic that Russia may be one of the few political bodies more sleazy than the IOC.
One of the best displays of airmanship I have seen was at an air show by a French Mirage 2000! Low level with cloud, amazing. BTW I am an American, ex-military and have seen a lot of displays.
Awesome video, Ed. Thanks! This is great news, although I'd assume that the barriers that slowed training on F-16's would be in play here as well. So starting the ball rolling on the Mirages now means they might be in service over Ukraine (or Russia) in, what -- 2026?
If it's like the F-16 training, the biggest barriers are language and maintainer training. Depending on the level of experience, pilot training has been reported as low as 4 months, up to 16 months. No inside knowledge here, just working off what I've read elsewhere.
Even if you included aircraft 🇺🇦 would never be given, like the F-35, The Gripen is far and away the best platform for 🇺🇦. So, if 🇸🇪 was actually going to provide more than just 10-12 Gripens, it’s a real shame if they paused the plan against Ukrainian wishes.
Yes, its main role will probably be air defence, ie shooting down Russian missiles and drones and maybe hunting Russian bomb trucks. It's not a bad idea considering Ukraine's anti-air capability gaps. Dassault also announced today that they will adapt them to carry SCALPs as well in time for delivery to Ukraine, so some long range A2G too I guess.
It's strange JAS was asked to wait supplying theirs, I though "Ok all focus is in the F16" Hoping the JAS training program still takes place and they get better training as it'll be a longer course...
I would just like to offer the opinion that perhaps France has looked back in history and found a fairly recent example or two of what the ultimate result of appeasement could be. I would hope that the members of the greatest generation that are still with us could pass on some wisdom to those that have forgotten.
@@andrewpease3688 Not really. He was trying (at Zelenski's request) to reason with Putin. Diplomacy is not appeasement. In 2022 France unblocked hesitations on delivering tanks to Ukraine by sending AMX30s (which he called light tanks). This opened the floodgates for long promised deliveries of Challenger, Leopard and Abrams tanks, and they also gave Ukraine 25% of their active Caesars, not decommissioned equipment. France has taken the long view, what I think has changed is a greater realisation that Putin will not stop at Ukraine, must be stopped and not allowed to win, and that more needs to be done to achieve this or it will become a bigger problem for Europe and France.
Germany should be ashamed of it's contribution. I hate to say it, but I find it hard to believe the Mirage will be in Ukraine within the next 18 months.
France has already trained a number of ukrainian fighter pilots since last year (officially france only provided basic training in prop planes and subsonic jets, but who's to say if a few flights in Mirages didn't take place?) I believe that there is a number of Ukrainian pilots already familiar with french methods and instrumentation that could be quickly formed on Mirages, so the timeline of Mirages in ukrainian service in late 2024 might actually be quite credible.
Why? Germany has given almost four times as much military aid to Ukraine as France has. France has to provide a lot more support if they want to reach German levels.
It amazes when the Russians whine and complain about Western arms to Ukraine. Clearly they forgot all of the aid they provided to North Korea and North Vietnam during those wars, without which those countries wouldn't have been to carry on the war. Furthermore, Soviet troops were engaged in combat against US forces during those wars such as Soviet pilots in Korea or air defense troops in Vietnam.
What has actually been crippling are the policies of the current office holder. Worse than crippling, they have been enabling of the hot conflicts now underway.
Ah yes because the Cesar cannon,Scalp cruise missiles,155mm Bonus Ammunition,AMX-10RC,Air Defense Systems,Zodiac boats,Bulletproof Vests,VABs,Medical Equipement and Direct Financial Aid didn't Happened?
Europe has changed so much I remember when former European leaders of France and Germany were just trying to please Russia but now the countries have opened their eyes and have taken step towards the right decision
@@jebise1126 money is less important to some than others. Personally, I can see the draw of being able to fly a fighter jet again and for a just cause. Everyone has their reason.
1. F-16 isn't currently operational in Ukraine, so ofc we're not seeing any pilots signing up to a program that does not yet exist. You can't add foreign pilots to squadrons that don't yet exist. 2. They would likely be seen as US assets + troops if they were allowed (due to the large investment of pilot training, etc) 3. There would still be quite a large training period to get the pilots accustomed to Ukrainian GCI, commands, and routines, so it would come at some cost, even if it's moderate compared to training a fresh pilot. 4. If you're a retired pilot you're probably older and physically suboptimal compared to the current generation - especially considering the number of years you may have been off F-16 and require some refamiliarization training whether this is convincing to you is irrelevant. It's whether this logic is convincing to the US government
Because a US pilots flying for the airforce of another nation would be a criminal offence under US law: pilots are always officers these days and US officers are forbidden by law from serving in the armed forces of another nation. The US would have to go through the process to create an exception like the one it has for US nationals serving in the Israeli armed forces. Doing that change in regulation would be public and the US doesn't seem willing to do that. More to the point, US pilots would be a liability in the war in Ukraine. They simply aren't trained to fly under the conditions the Ukrinaians fly in. For example, very few US pilots really know what it's like to fly in contested airspace.
@@adrien5834Indeed, some years ago F-22s were jousting with M2ks during an exercise in the UAE. One of the American pilots commented on the manoeuvrability of the M2K at high altitude. It's a fine plane.
Several videos online of Greek Mirage 2000s tagging Turkish F16s if you're interested. The 2 airframes are very similar in capability, are from the same generation (the F16 is a bit older) and both have been upgraded significantly. The M2K-5s Ukraine will be getting are the most updated version of the M2K, I don't think the F16s Ukraine is getting are the latest version, just versions with the MLUs (mid-life upgrades). So very similar in quality except that the M2k-5 is an air-defence version while the F16s will be multi-role. An advantage of the Mk2 for Ukraine is that it is quite well suited to poor runway conditions, unlike the F16.
@@user-aero68 The only air to air combat loss of an F-16 was to a M2K EG. The F-16 MLU aircraft are very capable. The problem is that the NATO specific hardware will be removed.
Mirage 2000C and the F-16 for Ukraine should be a game changer. If Ukraine can hold off the Russians with such old equipment like the SU-27, SU-24 and MiG-29 then I hope these more capable modernized 4th gen fighters can make a huge impact.
Both sides are prevented from gaining superiority/supremacy by SAM coverage but the main problem for Ukrainian jets is they lack a long range air to air missile so even if HIMARs can knockout the S-400's the VKS will still be a problem.
er bit weak as you completely missed the joke! FR is keen for all the reasons you state but MOSTLY because UA will be the biggest purchaser of weapons in Eur for the foreseeable future. FR is looking to seed Mirage capability in-country with a view that Kiev would then continue to buy FR aircraft. Not an unreasonable hope. And one other manufacturers will soon come to regret that their own state sponsor's weren't as quick: looking at you Typhon, Grippen and in some respects Lockheed-Martin (as US not supplying F-16s or, incredibly very mcuh support for the programme). Obvs such a dirigsite arms export policy fully dovetails with Macron's newer hardline stance. As Brexit Britain continues to fumble its future, FR policy in and for UA is a pertinent reminder that to lead internationally a state can be a full EU member.
Funny to see France step up at last. When there was an arms embargo to Iraq US troops kept finding French munitions. Hope they hold the line this time.
Oh yes, French ammo from the 80s, when everybody was sending military supplies to Iraq, with that picture of Saddam and Rumsfeld...funny how some are still drinking the neo con propaganda crap...
@@adrien5834 Don't seem to remember reading about anyone bitching in 1917-18 or 1941-45 about the US troops coming. Or everything that was supplied through Lend-Lease before December 41'. If we hadn't stayed neutral in the 40's as long as we did do you think we would have been able to accelerate the war production that was needed by every allied nation? Whatever. Today is not 1944. But for over 79 years the world expects us to be the world police and has dragged us in one way or another into every one of their wars. That is what allies are for I guess.
For mysterious reasons, the French and the Americans have long ago ceased to play by the identical sheet music, and any further escalation, which leaves yet another prospect of military engagement a matter of course during the Olympic year. The very real possibility of a terror campaign would be a dreadful outcome and an EU war, which is something I had never anticipated in my lifetime. With so much sabre-rattling and tit-for-tat engagement continuing into the near future at least. Too many egos are at play for me to feel at ease. We are already seeing the lack of both pilots and ground crew to maintain aircraft in a serviceable condition claiming its own toll, as it has already done in the western air forces of Europe, or perhaps just the RAF?
Thé Su 30 is a beefed up version of the Su 27 which first flew in 1977. The Mirage 2000-5 is the beefed up version of the Mirage 2000C that first flew in 1978. So…
The Mirage 2000 would likely fare just fine if provided with the correct weapons. There's nothing earth-shattering about the SU-30's capabilities so far.
05:20 Russia aknowledged indirectly that they were controlling the Ukrainian Russian terrorist. A NGO French member was arrested as a retaliation in Moscow.
@@Iden_in_the_Rainyou're acting as if continuing to prolong this conflict with the world's second largest nuclear power over ancient blood grievances is a good thing.
@@F40PH-2CAT you’re acting like Russia is going to use them, or that they have the armed forces to beat NATO. I don’t think there is a 100% chance Russia will not use them, but we all know how many times they’ve cried wolf already.
Now they are really going crazy, as if the various complex tanks were not a big enough logistic nightmare. Now they have to use F-16´s, Mirage 2000´s, and the Swedes want to give them Gripens. I would not want to be responsible for that logistics and maintenance. Why don´t they focus on one type? This will help nothing in the short term, and it is not clear if there will be a long term.
@@gort8203 Don´t be ridiculous, you know how I meant it, the F-16 is by far the most abundant tactical fighter available now, they should focus on getting as much as many of them, and train the badly needed pilots, of which they simply don´t have enough to split between three types of fighters. They got so many types of Western tanks, and only the Leopard 2 had a serious impact because it was used in large enough numbers. The Abrams has technical issues, and the Challenger 2 is as rare as a unicorn. You don´t stop a stronger enemy in throwing anything on the pile without being able to use it efficiently.
@@SakiniCZ It's increased number of useful systems that require more support vs fewer numbers of useful system that are easier to support. Considering their operational needs I think Ukraine is wise to chose more systems even if they come with the inconvenience of multiple supply chains. You know, like the British and Soviets did in WWII?
@@gort8203 But Ukraine is not in the same situation like the British and Soviets in WWII. They had a large pool of available soldiers, their enemies were not able to cover their entire countries with ballistic missiles, and their allies were supporting them with everithing including direct firepower and troops, the US were not standing far away and just sending weapons and material. And there were no satellites watching over every inch of their territory. This is not a war of yesterday, Ukraine doesn´t have a a part of their country with is outside of their enemies reach, and they have run out of manpower, not to speak of qualified manpower. Today´s aurcarft are much more complicated, pilot training is much harder and takes longer - where are the thousands of pilots being trained right now? The Ukrainian air force did not have enough even before the war, and they had substantial losses. Where are the US bombers running massive raids in their support? Allowing long range weapons to hit targets in Russia is changing nothing, because they are doing that for many months already, and the Western industry is not running in overdrive this time to make an endless stream of weapons for the war. This is not allied 1945 for Ukraine, despite what "fans" would like to hear. Every base, which will take fighters on Ukrainian soil, can be hit with hypersonic missiles whenever the Russians like, and there is not enough air defence in the whole West to stop it all. This is a different war, and the West has not taken it really seriously.
@@SakiniCZ I didn't ask for a summary of the Ukrainian war and I don't need one. Here is the simple summary you seem to be missing: Ukraine does not have enough weapons and munitions and needs more. Just like Britain and Russia did, they will accept weapons they need from friendly countries, even when said weapons are not the perfect solution. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush when you needed that bird yesterday.
I do really like this channel, but some of the claims in this video are utterly ridiculous. Really 20-30 out dated and probably past their air frame lifetime jets are going to make a difference? This is the new game changer, like the Challenger 2 tanks or the Storm Shadow? Seems like we've reached the bottom of the barrel now to be honest. And given what happened to the Crocus hall in Moscow by the worlds first non-suicide 'Isis' attackers, its a bit rich to start accusing the Russians of planning terror attacks in Europe. I'm a Brit but it really shocks me how much people over here have lost their minds falling for all the pro Ukraine propaganda. Let the down votes and calling me Ivan commence (if the comment even stays up).
So you think 140 million troglodytes will win against half a Billion of the smartest, richest and strongest people? OK then. It must be fun in delululand.
If the West want a nuclear war, you carry on poking the bear. Myself, I'd rather be a MAN about it and go for peace talks. I love your videos Ed, but this is just bollox mate. Ukraine lost this war ages ago and need to talk peace and as ex military I would have thought you could see that? The only thing that's stopping Putin levelling Kiev and all the other major cities in Ukraine is HIS restraint. He isn't afraid of the USA or NATO, and we need to realise that FACT!
Lol, dude. Russia lost on the world stage. Nato has expanded because of the invasion and is now closer to st. Petersburg than ever before. Russia was considered one of the most powerful militaries in the world before the invasion and is now seen as a joke by anyone who actually knows anything. Their professional soldiers have been decimated, and it will take decades to rebuild regardless of whether they manage to defeat the Ukrainian army. All that, and they still haven't gotten to the hard part yet. Thank you for demonstrating that just because someone is a vet, it doesn't mean they are a strategic expert.
@@nian60 I didn't realize Ukraine had half a billion europeans fighting on the frontlines. Hating Russian aggression makes sense but....delusion doesn't work either.
I think it's more about virtue signalling, Ukraine is loosing on net ~20k troops (casulties minus recruitment) per month, unless the West can solve this they will continue to get pushed back.
The source was Putin/RT so it's to be taken with a grain of salt, some coroborating pieces of evidence are Ukraine lowering the recruitment age recently suggesting a manpower shortage, Russia is known to have more artillery and is producing more shells than the West, and Ukraine has complained about shortages to the point they now have to recycle unexploded shells found on the battlefield.
The French iterated the 'Mirage' name, a bit like the Corolla. The new one is the 'Rafale' ofc. The RAAF flew those 60s Mirage 1s, we have one at Fighter World here, it looks very small next to an F1/11! Cheers. _I'd say UA is not winning the war & I don't see them taking Crimea, but I'm not sure RU is winning either, in UA anyway._
Ukrainian pilots cannot fly the Mirage without a lot of training, and there are very few pilots left anyway. So it can be safely said that French pilots will be needed.
I could *almost* literally see the airquotes around "an...uncertain commodity..." when describing tsar vlad the intriguer/invader's choirfuhrer and his chorus in the US.
Oh yeah the world is so wonderful now with President shits his pants in office. I just love not being able to afford gas, groceries and daily living expenses meanwhile our president cannot string two sentences together and struggles with a teleprompter telling stories that never happened.
Not really an issue : France being a member of NATO, the aircraft’s are compatible with most NATO standards. It can launch Mk82 bombs, for example. For the rest, Missiles will be supplied with the aircraft’s.
I have lost complete respect for NATO. The Western Powers have shown themselves to be scardy cats. And Russia is capitalizing on this. What a shame. Yes, another war can occur, but if that's to be, it's to be. Remember 'Appeasement pruor to WW2?!' Hitler?! Stalin?! I'm embarrassed for NATO.
