Mirror Universe : The Terran Empire Government 

It seems that the Terran empire is the Roman empire that never fell. There are so many clues from the salutes to the gods to the attitudes that very much seem roman. It seems to be a good strong story line

It's called the "mirror universe" because the TOS episode where we first saw it was called "mirror mirror." It also likely has to do with the quote "for we see now through a glass darkly."

I wonder what the Mirror Universe Borg are like? "We are the Borg. We only want to procreate with anybody who is willing". 5000 Seven OF Nine clones beam down. Good times.

0:55 "pointing out a place where he dropped acid." Man, those trippy 60's.

1950's western hemisphere to me it all points to Walt Disney founder of the Terrain Empire.

"Where he dropped acid"

I know it's not canon, but I read a ST:TNG novel where Picard went to the mirror universe. The book was written before DS9's take on that universe, so they were still very much the Terran Empire. Anyhoo, Picard read their history and it turned out that there was never a World War 3 and that they'd never learned the lessons of mass genocide and come together peacefully afterwards. I wish that the show had gone this route with the story. The ships were more advanced, particularly the engines. The conquered territory of the Empire was 2 or 3 times the size of the Federation's explored space. Definitely find this book, it makes an interesting read.

Every Stellaris run in a Nutshell

I always liked the Mirror Universe. They tried to have the opposite of the Federations as the Dominion but it didnt really work. Having this Terran Empire that conquered and ruled the stars over the Federation that united the stars is a very good counter story For every success the Federation made threw peace you have the Empire do the exact same thing threw war In some ways its a shame in DS9 they had the empire become broken and beaten, it could have been a fun story arc to have the Federation and the Empire come into conflict

A facist government devoid of racism and xenophobia where any one could advance through hard work/obaying the law? ... Would you like to know more?

I glad that you add that the Vulcans join the Terran empire later. Look on as equal status as the humans later.

One thing though, the Terran Empire was resting on very shaky ground as its command hierarchy was in theory in constant flux as a way for advancement was to assasinate anyone above making every Terran with any kind of position probably extremely paranoid. SO calling it an "Odd hirerarchy" is obvious.

Human-centric racism? Sounds like the Star Wars Empire.

I would suggest that there are a multitude of different 'Mirror Universes'.

Dark age of technology my old friend.

I always saw the Vulcan invasion referenced by archer was a “history is written by the victors” situation.

Tangled with my mirror counterpart the ISS Normandy. He’s just as aggressive as me and it makes a far more difficult opponent then I ever faced before. It’s 50/50 right now with our fights and SFC knows to get me if he ever comes back

Long live the Empire

I think it's something appealing with how the Terran Empire operated. In a lot of ways, it was what the idealized Klingon Empire is about. A very brutal but effective power. You don't adapt to other cultures, you conquer them and they become part of the empire, which is why it made sense with the first TOS episode of no racism from within humans and other races they have conquered. You are a citizen of the empire and anyone can rise to the top if you have ambitions of glory but above all, your goal is to the strength of the empire

Have you ever read the TNG Novel "Dark Mirror"? If not, I can highly recommend it.

Empires like the Klingons and Romulans, and even Terran Empire, require substantial manpower and resources dedicated to internal policing of their subjugated races. Both the Klingons and Romulans boast 'empires' essentially subduing and ruling over other species within their territories. To what extent these subject species are involved in their societies is never made made entirely clear, as far as I know. However, it's made pretty clear that they persevere through conquest and military intimidation of their subject species. The Federation has the advantages of the combined knowledge, personnel, and resources of all their member worlds and don't have to police themselves internally with their fleet. The Klingons and Romulans presumably would not have their advantages. Never have we seen non-Klingon or non-Romulan scientists or officers of any significance or number in their ranks. And to maintain these subject species would require considerable internal policing and monitoring of their technological development, I would think. With so much of their attention and resources, not to mention single-species manpower, needed internally, the fact that they can still manage to rival the Federation externally speaks very highly of their military might.

Mirror Mirror 1967/68 season was taken from the edited out material of City on the Edge of Forever. The Pirate Marauder Enterprise, in the original Ellison screenplay was what they beamed up to after the crewman that saved Edith in the past had changed the future. GR and DF took that out to shorten the story to one hour. They liked it so they saved it for an episode next season. Ellison originally wrote a two parter, but since GR had reworked The Cage footage as the two parter, the network didn't want another one. In 1967 there were NO season ending cliff hangers either in US TV. So this Mirror Mirror, as fiction, is produced by the Guardian due to free will, as an alternate universe or otherwise there is only one universe and one reality. Kirk comes to realign them back onto a Logical GR utopia path, but keep the adultery. GR liked the adultery. Every Mirror Mirror since then was fan service, and nothing more. Bizarro Superman Comics. Fun time for the actors, not having to play such still paragons every week.

The First and Second Terran Empires were my first empires. In the First Terran Empire, I ruled over dozens of star systems. In the Second, I ruled over the ENTIRE Alpha and Beta Quadrants.

Edith Keillor didn't die in the 1930s. She convinces the US to be world pacifists and they lead a world movement to avoid WWII. Hitler and the Nazis had time to develop their nuclear program and with their V2 rockets they captured the world. ~Lt Cmdr Spock 2267 (1967+300 years)

Only found your channel a few weeks ago, and it rocks!

What I like about the Terran Empire: dose crazy dudes with beards and dem sexy midriff bad babes.

I kinda pondered that when Cochran killed the Vulcans, that was the result of Picard destroying the Enterprise-E to destroy the Borg. The Enterprise crew followed orders to stay out of time's way, but too late and it had already been corrupted, so Cochran looked at the Vulcans as an attack. That would set forth the events we saw through ST: Enterprise.

I always thought that had the Borg and the Enterprise-E not going back in time to 2063, only then would the Terran Empire would be "born". Remember, Zephram Cochrane wasn't the altruistic engineer who invented the warp drive for the benefit of humankind. He wanted to make money. Coupled this with an unstable environment at that time, and you would have had a Terran Empire. Also, it would have been nice to see a proper Mirror Universe of DS9 and VOY, though, you sort of had that in VOY.

2:10 The possibility that is just propaganda has to be accounted for. Of course the empire would exaggerate how long it's been around.

I always thought it was pretty lazy of them to use the exact same ship models for the Terran Empire ships, like come on, at least throw some big canons on the thing or something like they did in Voyager "Living Witness". The idea that, in an alternate universe where humanity is very authoritarian and militaristic that the ships would be the exact same the peaceful Federation built for exploration is pretty silly. I think the TOS gets a pass because the show was pretty low-budget campy but shows like Enterprise where they just paint the hull yellow (some combination of red, white and blue, or if you really want to go full evil, a black and red motiff, would probably make a lot more sense, yellow/gold is usually associated with economic wealth, not political and military power). A missed opportunity to make some badass weaponized versions of the NX or Enterprise D (which I guess they kinda eventually did with the Galaxy X).

Upon digging a bit further, I came to find that the Terran Empire was actually the result of a conglomeration of Disney, Wal-Mart and Amazon. You can Google that, by the way.

With how the Terran system is described it almost sounds like an alternate WW2 History where the Germans and Japanese won the war. Maybe in that universe you have a Man in High Castle situation where the western Hemisphere is basically cut in half by the Germans and the Japanese - and this is where a potential hybrid alliance was launched that eventually gave birth to the Terran Empire - and that is why it shows the western hemisphere.

i would love seeing a mirror universe series. think of the possibilities. after being goodie two-shoes to see a badassed star fleet is most fascinating a concept. always liked the episodes of all the series that ventured over to the darkside.

We are the borg resistance is preferred

Starfleet was not done at the end of the best of both worlds. 39 starships did not represent all federation starships. What if the enterprise had rammed the cube at max warp? Likely the cube would have taken massive damage allowing time for the remaining federation ships to gather and engage a badly damaged cube along with the Klingon armada. Perhaps a group of say ten abandoned starships could be put on auto pilot and crash themselves and destroy the cube.

It also depends on which cannon you're looking at. The book "Dark Mirror" gave a different account where the changes instituted by Spock were quickly stopped by Kirk and the empire grew where the Klingons surrendered, Romulous & Remus commited mass suicide and the empire expanded.

The Mirror Universe Empire could have it's beginning in a more brutal British Empire, especially IF that Empire retained it's American Colonies. The vast resources of North America coupled with the mighty British military could have Conquered the Earth. Their role model then would have been a Second Roman Empire, centered upon the English speaking Countries. This would also explain Mirror Universe Archer talking about an Empire that has endured for centuries. IF it was a Roman Empire that never fell, it would be far older than that.

Zefram Cochrane used Vulcan technology to quickly conquer the rest of the world and it's crippled state it was not hard and he became the first Terran emperor Cochran line of emperors

4:08 Imperial State of America

I think Discovery I mean STD should be left out of the conversation as they are not part of the Prime Time Line in the first place.

Fascinating stuff man. Love the video. I've read some goodies on the Mirror Universe. My favorite bits are its origins, its nature, and its resurgence following the Terran Rebellion. I love the idea that Cochrane and co. stormed the Vulcan ship and founded the Empire in fear of the Borg threat, which itself ties into another of my favorite Trek theories. The Terrans were really genocidally xenophobic, but only in cases where the conquered species had resisted integration into the Empire. The Vulcans, Tellerites, and Bolians all capitulated without a drawn out conflict. However, the Andorians, Kelpians, and Tholians vigorously and viciously resisted, which inspired elements of the other races to do the same. This led to brutal reprisals courtesy of the Empire. I love that the Empire was able to virtually annihilate the Klingons, and secure primacy over the alpha and beta quadrant before the Alliance took advantage of their reforming flux and overpowered them. Very cool man

Just a thought, Have you ever considered there may be more than one "Mirror" universe? We have seen, multiple, (subjective), good ones, (eg, STNG S07E11 "Parallels") in the trekverse. so it stands to reason that there must be just as many "Mirror" ones . It may be that even if you have traveled to one of them before the next time you cross a dimensional barrier and find yourself in a " Mirror ", you may not be in the same one you last visited. This would explain inconsistencies.

He SPILLED acid, he didn't DROP acid.

I love how the 'mirror version' of ourselves insists on making a distinction between 'goodies and baddies' and the originals are always the goodies!!!! Such a wonderfully naive and simple outlook on story telling. "Why are they evil?" "Because they're wearing black clothes and are capitolists" "But we like black clothes and we are capitolists!" "Shhhhhh....... we're not suppose to admit that, we're the 'heroes'!"

now here me out. is it possible there is a mirror kelvin timeline. although the split from prime timline happend at the distruction from the USS kelvin. what if in mirror spock still hellped the romulans resulting in the same events happening just with the ISS kelvin.

Hey LR, will you ever be taking a look at/debating the morals behind the death of Tuvix?

You can also see the intro to Enterprise they swap the sailing ship out. The normal intro uses the 1848 cutter unarmed Enterprise. The Terren Empire intro shows a 44 gun Battleship from 1804. So you can say the Empire is at least as far back as 1848.

It's possible that in this alternate timeline the Romans conquered the entire globe, and for some reason renamed themselves to the Terran Empire. Branding? Just the use of the word "Terra" and the originally Roman salute that Hitler decided he'd use, another possible alternate is that Terra prime had come to be far sooner than it had in Enterprise, and the Vulcans had made First Contact long before they had in the movie. So one possible route is: Towards the eleventh century, the Romans conquer and enslave the globe, rebranding to the Terran Empire, they advance exponentially quicker than we did, drawing attention from the Vulcans, say around the 1500s, Vulcans make first contact, and the humans overrun them, and begin working on space.

Long Live the Empire!

Honestly the mirror universe episodes of Enterprise were my favorite episodes of that series. Imagine if the whole series was of the mirror universe, that would have been truly amazing

Remeber seeing a episode of TOS where they went back in time but into a alternate timeline and even though everything was modern it was as if the Roman empire never died out. So at least that long.

My head canon for the Mirror Universe outside of the episodes are basically the novels. In Sorrows of Empire, Spock turns the Empire into a Republic, and weakens it so that it can be taken over, leading to the events shown in DS9, where the novels Obsidian Alliances and Rise like Lions take place. I know the novels aren't considered canon, but i'd like to believe those novels are how the Mirror Universe turned out, since i do think that's how Spock would have seen it.

Only to be replaced by the alliance

I REALLY want to see the mcCoy drops acid episode now.

I have a question for you since you mentioned first contact. After they did the warp jump to get noticed by the valcuns and turned around and went back to earth how did they get from the ship back onto land all they had was a cockpit there was no shuttle craft there was no transporter and just to get the ship into orbit they had to launch it from a missile silo. I didn’t see no landing gear so what did they do crash land the ship.

My opinion was always that the splitting point of prime and mirror universe was first contact, in prime influanced by the tng crew, in mirror without any influances from any other timeline

Hail, the Terran Empire.

Nice Intro. Could there be multiple "Mirror Universes"? An Enterprise Mirror universe and a mirror universe that interacts with the prime? I don't watch discovery because I don't want to support that stupid subscription thing they got going on, so I don't know about Discovery Terran Empire. Also isn't it interesting that the Terran Empire got the USS Constitution and the empire didn't advance that technology (From a lore perspective, doesn't discovery interacting with the mirror universe mess up continuity? The original enterprise was the first to interact with the Terran empire)

I once heard the idea that the Terran Empire universe/timeline was created by the events of City on the Edge of Forever.

My Discovery/Mirror theory is that Lorca is mirror universe Lorca. Remember, he programmed the jump that took discovery into the MU. According to the latest episode Mirror Lorca tried to launch a coup against the Emperor. I think he hopped over to the Prime universe to steal some tech and pull a Sato style coup.

Excellent video, though I would like to point out an in-universe flaw. With the Enterprise mirror universe episodes that obtain the U.S.S. Defiant, they have a jump start on 23rd century tech, yet when we go to the TOS Mirror Mirror episode, when we look at the I.S.S. Enterprise, we can see that it is an earlier Constitution design that we had seen from the Capt. Pike Prime Universe U.S.S. Enterprise. This would indicate that the Prime Universe would still have a slight technological edge.

Always wondered if normal nonmilitary folks are the same in the Empire? For example.....I'm a normal Joe working at the warp core factory churning out parts for the Imperial fleet. I don't like my boss.......so can I kill him and then I become the boss?

I like that huff a 4:25. Its like the writers decided 'hey, how about we change our symbol to only show the American continent instead of the whole world', Inferring somehow America was the centre of the world.

The problem with all of this is each time we see the terrain empire, the writers want to recreate it. This is most evident in the discovery version of the terrain empire, but then as Discovery seems to want to rewrite all of startrek, i suppose this is not surprising. Even Gene rewrote a bit of startrek when he came up with the Next generation. The biggest re-write, apart from discovery, is Zefram Cochrane, who in Methamorphosis displays no relationship to his version in Star Trek First contact. I always feel that if a writer wants to do something different, they need to create their own universe rather than take an existing one and twist it to suit themselves. I would love it if someone took the first 3 seasons of startrek and created a canon based soley on it, then applying all the rest of the series AS LONG AS IT DID NOT AFFECT THE ORIGINAL CANON. I suspect a lot of what we consider canon today would need to be removed.

STD is not canon. It could be that there are multiple mirror universes, and the TOS, DS9, and ENT encounters were all with different iterations of a mirror universe. That could explain how characters end up being the same on both sides rather than diverging because different people get born over time...

I just find it a surprise that the change in the Kelvin for STD turns humans to eating non human humanoid meat in the STD Terran universe as the biggest change

I like the Mirror Universe because it is still basically a blank canvas and therefore open to unlimited stories and adventures.

the terran empire looks like fun and i wish they made a series or 5 about it

I have a theory. The Mirror Universe is a likely scenario if Colonel Greens ambition would have prevailed. Green was probably the first emperor.

I like the MACOs of the Terran empire.

I would like to see a Mirror Universe where EVERYTHING was it's opposite. Vulcans who celebrate irrational revelry. Klingon as a race of hippies. Cardassians who embrace democracy and peaceful coexistence. Etc.

Time for reflection. 🖖

The whole concept of the mirror universe is nuts. Canon would suggest the divergence took place centuries in even our past. There's no way the same people would show up in both universes centuries later. That is, unless the whole mess is a science project by the Q.

Perhaps NA was the center of the map because it was founded by Zefram Cochrane. He had the Vulcan ship and humanity's first warp ship. He could set the rules at that point. And tell me those female officer uniforms aren't something he'd have come up with. Maybe that's what Cochrane was like and it was only his interactions with the E-E crew preparing him for first contact that he decided to shake hands instead of shoot.

i would say that if WW2 would have turned out different is where the Terran Empire comes from

I think the Terran Empire is Star Trek Discoveries way of reflecting on the extremes going on in the world today where one race is considered superior to all others.

The Empire is this strange set up I mean Everything says it should be totally dysfunctional. You are killing someone to advance in rank. IT just seems to me like there is a whole set of Rules missing here. The Portion of the Empire we see in Ent, TOS and Disc are the Terran Military, No military in history could condone this, other than in very old an very barbaric discipline methods.

I wonder if the Empress from discovery (Philippa Georgiou) is a descendant of Hoshi Sato the officer who staged a coup and took control of the Defiant in the enterprise mirror universe episode.

A plot line was point out to me that in Discovery Mirror Universe the Vulcans never join the Earth's militarily collation if you follow the canon of the Enterprise's show the Vulcans announce themselves to humans, when they first launch the Rocket with first wrap speed drive. I am thinking that Humans both on Mirror side and the other side discover teleology earlier maybe in the 1900's. In the show Enterprise it is set in 2161 AD they only reach warp five. The Vulcans was holding them back thinking that they were not ready yet maybe this is not case in world of Discovery or the Mirror Universe. Maybe the Humans know about the Vulcans in 1944? maybe they already had warp drive way too soon. That Humans in the Mirror didn't need Vulcans they never met them until they started exploring other worlds. In the STO timeline Vulcans meet the humans in 2063 with the first warp drive, but they really here in 1950's if you believe in T'Pol's story.

Is it bad that the idea of a supreme human empire sounds kinda cool, where humans are the dominants

Some aliens without weapons landing their ships just to wave? Yeah that is one helluva gift for humanity. The empire however did a huge mistake in expanding too fast after figuring out and reverse-engineered the tech.

Why didn't the NX Enterprise have Vulcan shields rather than ionized hull plating? (An oopsie in the writing of ENT Mirror ep.)

Enterprise toyed with Mirror Universe perspective but made it clear that that there was no interaction between the two universes beyond what the Tholians did and what was in the Defiant's database. That was one thing Enterprise actually did right - TOS made it clear that the Mirror Universe was a new discovery for the Federation, so STD taking a shit on that canon fact is just flat out stupid.

The Terran Empire is similarly sinister to the Clans of Battletech. Both are war like, and reward competency... What constitutes competency is different for both, but, it is intriguing.

For the empire !

Suggestion: The Terran Empire had its origins in the mid-20th century following Germany's victory in WWII. In the Mirror Universe Edith Keeler's pacifism movement caused the West to lose because that time traveling Kirk saved her.

If you want an early example of the Terran Empire go to Star Trek Farragut, the episode "For Want Of A Nail".

I mean, it's heavily implied (by the TOS episode's Nazi salute) that it was the actions of Kirk and the Guardian of Forever saving Geller that created that timeline. With the Nazis winning WWII, a lot of stuff comes together nicely.

I read somewhere that the ROMULAN REPUBLIC was a huge threat to our beloved TERRAN EMPIRE! I wish that I had more to share on that point.

U should check out the book trilogy written by William Shatner beginning with spector. Its a great story line involving the mirror universe and the prime universe. They also fill in the gaps of the terran empire history

When the hell are they going to do a startrek series based in the mirror univers

Hey man, Sato and T'Pol's mirror counterparts are enough for me to want to live in that timeline. ALL HAIL EMPRESS SATO! LEADER OF THE EMPIRE!

There would also have to be a strange attractor between the prime and the mirror universes, with the mirror universes somehow being dragged by the prime or a reflection of the prime. Because if they were seperate universes then the next generation of people would be completely different as the circumstances of their conception would be different due to random events. Different people die, meet, reproduce together in different situations and with different number of thrust before ejaculation (to get pedantic) so that means different genetic combinations.

I want to see Star trek series based in the Terran Empire. I believe it started with the Roman Empire based introduction and Full name of the Emperor in Star Trek Discovery.

Awesome 👍😎

I’m curious about weather or not there’s a Teran Empire in the Kalve Time line. We know that the Romulan ship that altered the time lines was from the Prime Universe, but would anything like that happen if the Empire was running things?

I think there's a mirror universe that interacts with prime, being a few years behind and ones that alternative reality's of that univers

I think the empire started in the U.S. in the 1930's. the enterprise intro shows American troops marching behind the empire's banner and then we see ww2. my theory is maybe the new deal plan of FDR was more like the rise of fascism in our time line

🤔I wonder how a Terran Empire vs Dominion War would go

Discovery messed up Cannon so it is logical that Discovery would mess up the Mirror Universe as well. Heck Discovery could not even get the Uniform style look right.