Pretty sure a trip and a standard close would be the same thing since the hydraulics would be acting as dampers. Which is ideally how you want it if possible.
Where is the air injection to stop water turbine damage? Standing inside the steel pipe before the water running the turbine is a wild feeling. The steel was 2 in thick.
On a pump-turbine if you lose connection under load the rotor accelerates and the centrifugal forces in the impeller reverse the flow and effectively act like a closed valve, Weight is added to the rotor to reduce acceleration and the inlet valve is closed quickly but not to quickly
At Dinorwig they have a surge shaft and pond for the machine shutting down quickly. Ffestiniog has relief valves which open quickly when the machines trip
Nice , doesn’t lose a drop! if you could just hold firmly the camera it would be an interesting video, we can’t even tell if shaft is horizontal or vertical
Not an issue. Even if one of the hydraulic lines did rupture the drop in fluid pressure would not be that drastic. It would not slam shut like you think.
what kind of diameter and pressure is this running because i work in water treatment and i never saw a driveshaft of that size for a valve, the biggest stuff we operate is around DN1400 at a maximum of 40 Bar. Just Wondering :D
What is the fastest safe time to go from fully closed to fully open and generating power? I thought it was 17 seconds (from ~1998 UK Uni hydro study). Here, it looked like 60 second alone for the SpV/MIV? What is the fastest safe shutdown time from full power to closed? Is hydro still the fastest grid-scale source to meet urgent surge-demand of all sources (biomass, coal, oil, CCGT, OCGT, Nuclear)?
Windmill can be started quickly too? I guess solar is always on. And all the others work with a steam turbine, I don't know if they keep the pressure up even when it's not generating, but it sure add some inertia to the system.
The wicket gates on a hydro plant are between 5-20 seconds which let water into turbine. The MIV is upstream and usually takes 1:30 to 3 minutes to reduce open closing water impulse. It’s an additional water tight seal to close water off to turbine.
@@ronblack7870 private message me. I have an incredible graph which compares Tesla storage vs pump storage in Australia. Pump Storage has incredible numbers.
40% more power needed to lift the water than you get when it falls to the turbine hall plus costs of infrastructure needed equals 20-25% price increase. MAKE YOUR DAMS DO MORE GET 5-10% MORE from RDP Marine Australia a retrofittable units
Once the large valve is closed. There are inflatable water seals on the upside(maintenance) and downstream side of the valve which creates a near water tight seal. A big valve like this does not have tolerance to be water tight. Seals prevent leakage to turbine and a thing called wire draw. The bypass valve equals the pressure across valve before open and close to allow seals and valve to move freely. Hydro Engineer.
@@loganslife717 Thanks for your kind reply. So is the air seal filled from external source (air compressor)? Can you tell the name of the valve and supplier for this valve? Thanks.
Most of the seals are actually water filled, usually by water pressure from the head of the plant. Can you private message me and tell me your application and I could tell you if I know a resource.
It's easy, no use plc. The system is valve bypass, MIV Main valve, PHU - Power Hydraulic Unit of oil, contacts for Open, Close, shut down. Before Check pressure of PHU Open valve Bypass Check pressure in each face of MIV. Open MIV, time of Open is in ramp slowy. Close valve bypass. -work turbine In normal stop of turbine the MIV can Open In shut down the turbine the MIV Close join with gate in pipeline
Those bolts will be severely tested if the main valve trips on full flow, the counterweights will slam it shut as soon as the hydraulic pressure is lost. The water hammer due to the flow of water suddenly stopping will cause a huge surge in pressure. There is probably a surge relief somewhere on the pipework behind that wall.
@@letrainavapeur Even if you just chop the hydraulic line in half, the fluid doesn't vanish. The weights will still be working against the remaining hydraulic fluid as it's pushed out of the leak. It won't close slowly, but it won't be instant either, it'll still have some resistance to work against.
@@nate0031 Now imagine the hydraulic shaft mount breaking, causing the entire cylinder to drop along with the counterweight. It may be unlikely, but still a possible failure mode to be considered and calculated.
@@ljmike1204 I doubt it would slam, but the weight adds the ability to let it close without power, if the hydraulics ever fail for instance. It probably wouldn't fall like a stone. In case of failure I would imagine they can disconnect the lines from the rams, and use them as dampers, squirting hydraulic oil, hopefully into a bucket, and allowing the valve to close in a more controlled manner. The bypass also adds some protection against over pressure as the valve closes, by allowing a path for the highest pressure peaks to dissipate. There are also likely fail safes in the form of other spring valves to prevent, and equalise, vacuums and overpressures throughout the system.
Please consider this ,,, Snowy River 2 project in Australia will cost 2billion plus and be limited to the area it will deliver to . Yes it is a fact of physics to this type of application BUT There are no dams on this planet that run more than one bank of turbines were a three bank set is a workable improvement to all our dams . Billions of dollars worth of power from the same volume of water currently FLUSHED DOWN STREAM ,,,,,RDP Marine Australia ,,Simon Bowman
I can't speak to Australia but in Canada we build multiple dams downstream of each other, that way we extract as much as we can. Two generating stations within 50km of each other generate a combined 5200MW of power. By the time that water reaches the ocean it's passed through a total of five reservoir generating stations and nine run of the river generating facilities.
@@TheDrew2022 i think he means turbines directly in series. kind of like triple expansion steam engines? water goes from one turbine into the next . is there enough energy left in the water leaving the first turbine ?
@@ronblack7870 I think it really depends on the type of turbine used. It might be possible with low head turbines as they depend more on flow then pressure to spin.
Snowy is a pump storage facility for grid stabilization. Incredible project. Stores more energy than thousands of telsa battery warehouses. Enough for almost two weeks all grid power in blackout.