Mixing MESHUGGAH guitars w/ Tue Madsen | Nail The Mix 

😂😂😂

Lmao i was waiting for that part thinking he was discussing the EQ on Bleed haha.

is it a group of high gain guitars, and a group of mid gain guitars? (i have next to no mixing experience)

It looks to be several performances, each performance fed to: 3 heads/cabs amped and mic'd, plus feeds from a torpedo direct box coming off one of those heads or maybe something else?? And then the other randall head w the custom module brought in a few ways, direct, micd something else? Might be diff takes or jusr reamps. Im just listening mostly but thats what it looks like on first glance. (i have next to some mixing experience)

What is complicated? Its just many sources to choose from.

Looks like they double tracked with the 3 amps recorded/re-amped simultaneously, and then double tracked again with the mid-gain tone. Not sure if they recorded another pair or performances for the gritty tone, or they just re-amped the same performance. However, the processing done after recording was pretty minimal, at least judging by this video, although I did noticed a couple bypassed plugins on the gtr buss track that wasn't shown.

@@TheFlyingDanish it's complicated because it's 12 layers of guitar simultaneously mixed. that means each one is specifically equalized to sit in a specific frequency range in the whole mix so as not to step on the toes of the other instruments range, or even the other amps! it's alot of tweaking, you can't just plug in 6 amps and feed them all to the same source and expect it to sound listenable.

Mix clean tone and low gain in with your heavy gain guitars. Adding a little bit of gain guitars in layers sounds better than just one super high gain guitar! Also blend an out of phase mic with an in phase one, etc

@@norwardradtke1361 my problem with all this technicality is that.... welll.... HOW DO YOU DO IT LIVE??? its done to the most precise sound aspect so how the hell u do it live with gear only

@@zelim9367 you dont, this is the definition of over produced

@@user-pn5go6jf5s a similar sound could be achieved with way less time.

@@user-pn5go6jf5s yeah I guess.

jajaja

Yes. That. But I guess if I heard that riff as many times as he did I would hate it. (Well, maybe not. ;) )

he is very slightly at certain points haha

Hahaha fr

Try doing this for hours......you start to go numb

weird right? i never tought i will fell asleep with messugah

Good for you jerkwad

Custom dithering 🤣

have you seen circle of tone's video on Meshuggah's recording setup? It's absolutely insane for this album!!

It sounds absolutely massive.

The drums already sound buried under the guitars to me here :( But hey DR7 is better than DR5... we're getting there.

All vinyl does is limit the dynamic volume and frequency range, while adding its own warm EQ effect due to the material alone. People hear that effect and they think the music is better. It's definitely different, and if it sounds more pleasing to you then by all means please continue enjoying it forever. But on paper, vinyl has less dB range, and less frequency range so the lowest lows and the highest highs are non-existent, which is basically a natural hi/lo cut which does actually help harshness in most instances. and a natural compression due to the physical limits of the track sizes and needle. compression and hi/lo cuts are desirable most of the time in music so it makes sense, but alot is missing on vinyl, it's compensated for by the smooth analog waveforms, unnatural EQ and compression.

@@KodyXXVll i agree with all you say. But masters for vinyl, due to the limitations if the medium, ironically, forces the engineers to master much more carefully and with much more dynamic range. Again, ironically.

DITTO! That's what keeps running through my mind... I can't imagine the amount of time Tue spent time & phase aligning all of those tones.... or maybe not! hahaha... surely not a feat that's "EASY" to pull off!

He probably used phase alignment plugins such as Sound Radix Auto-Align or MeldaProduction MAutoAlign. It'd be really tedious to align those tracks manually. A useful trick I accidentally discovered to layer quad-tracked guitars is by starting with tones with higher treble and presence to each tracks. I discovered that double-tracking, and moreover, quad-tracking, shaves off higher frequencies and causes the combined tracks to be pulled backward. If you need your quad-tracks to be thick yet in-your-face you need to have more treble and presence in the first place. I think this is why Slash's lead tone on Sweet Child O' Mine sounds almost ear piercing by itself, but in a full band context it sounds amazing.

Wow, who would’ve guessed one of the top producers in modern metal is right. This is shocking.

@@joeblow1229 I would've ne ee guessed it before spending months on my own stuff. Simply out of ignorance.

H u h

no obviously not every track shown on screen is guitars, that's the whole mix of the song, drums, bass, etc... It says in the description that over a dozen layers of guitars were used so, that's still alot.

Looks like the individual mics used to make one giant tone.

I never understand why they don't do this I mean they have the stems

Good question lol... I would imagine that there is a lot of reamping also, so maybe not as many as it seems, but then maybe not, if there are that many guitar tracks I bet it was a nightmare lol.

it looks like he split the guitar signal to 4 amps: a Rectifier, Marshall, Engl, and a Salvation audio cwatt. then he re-amped a di from that for 4 separate takes with slightly different eq on the amps for each take. Note that he isn't playing with the individual amp eq or levels at all. they were all recorded so well, and dialed in so well already he doesn't have to. he's just eq'ing all of them together on a guitar send group. That is awesome!

to me it looks like they quad tracked the guitars. for every individual take a new amp. splitting or reamping the same guitar signal through four amps woudn't make sence to me. if you look closer to the wave files you can notice they are not the exactly same. but maybe i'm wrong :D lets discuss!

You play guitars pretty bossy as well my friend

I disagree

Chaosphere is harsh

Check out the remaster of Obzen

More about C-Watt tube preamp: salvationaudio.com/index.php?page=c-watt

Ugh, I need that in my life!

:) It's amazing technology. It changed my life... really :) Now I can have almost any amp I want in small package for good money. Salvation preamps sounds exactly same as the original amps.

Yeah, kinda reminds me of the idea of the API 500 Series racks, does Randall still make modular amp systems like this? I remember seeing a version that was a Kirk Hammett signature amp but never heard of the Lynchbox.

This MTS modular system starts Bruce Egnater. Then he sold the licence to Randall. Randall is not make this anymore, but you can still find some heads and racks on ebay (it calls RM series like: RM4, RM20, RM50, RM100). Now this system brings back Synergy Amps. Salvation Audio is finishing their new rack preamp and you can choose two of 40 their preamp circuits for it. It works with standard amp with fx loop (you can use your amp + Salvation preamps and switch between them). Great idea.

I tried with voxengo, didn't work really well😅

uhhhhh how does video quality change the audio quality?????

Go watch a recent upload in 144p/240p, then watch it again in 720p. Can you not hear the difference? Granted youtube has gotten better at this lately, but definitely back in the old days the difference in audio was huge.

Sean Matson youtube streams video and audio separately then they're combined ... yes it was shitty back in the day ... but now everythings usually 126kbps AAC in an mp4 container no matter the resolution

jabahubut shizzits TIL, thanks for the information!

Yep but doesn't 1080p and 720p have the same audio rate? and btw It seems like we hear the sound that's bleeding from the control room, but still an interesting video

I second this question. It sounds freaking amazing!

From this articial online " We also used the Fortin Satan, and Salvation Mods’s C-Watt module for Randall MTS amps." www.premierguitar.com/articles/25052-meshuggahs-m%C3%A5rten-hagstr%C3%B6m-a-higher-standard?page=2

Hey gus, C-Watt is tube preamp by Salvation Audio (Mods). It is based on Randall/Egnater modular MTS preamp technology, but this is custom/butique modification by Antonin Salva. Check Salvation's web page: salvationaudio.com/index.php?page=c-watt I'm using these preamps and it is just amazing!

And while we’re there, what is the”T-watt” 😎

The EQ or the beer? 😅

I love omega virus guitar tone 😘🤌

That could work, but what about when it doesn't work? Does it really matter what you use as long as you get the job done in the end?

No, not necessarily. Sure, the idea is to capture a crispy, well rounded, 'in the ballpark' tone closest to how you want it to sound so you're free to mix your mix, and not fix your mix. But, generally It's not in good practice to have a whole lot of processing going to tape, save for some light compression to keep levels at bay, and a high pass filter to screen any rumble that may creep in. That's considered basic maintenance, and sure, if there's a loud discrepancy present, squelch it. But anymore then that is just destructive and limiting what options may be available for your recording. You think if there was a glaring, super annoying, and distracting noise in the take, the engineer WOULDN'T address it and re-record it? Did ya happen to notice that he was making the eq adjustments on groups, and not the individual tracks themselves? Regardless, if you decide to double, triple, quadruple, or quintuple stacks of heavy gainey guitars, that may all be from different amps/gear/eqs, the combination of all the various harmonic content will inevitably form undesirable and unpredictable buildups in different frequency ranges that weren't anticipated during tracking! Big whoop! The whole priority of the tracking stage is to do just that, capture each element that does the project most justice, and ticks all the boxes of what makes a useable piece of audio. Editing is when you clean up any excess noise in between hits, tighten up some parts here and there, construct a comp track from different takes, and trim the fat. Basically, you're just cleaning and preparing all the ingredients before plopping them all in the stew! Mixing, on the other hand, is what defines your worth as an engineer. It's juggling, a balancing act, it's wack-a-mole, but it's also elevation and enhancement. You tuck in the blemishes, and intensify the main elements. It's a different headspace entirely than the prior stages, because YOU CAN NO LONGER FOCUS ON MAKING AN INDIVIDUAL TRACK SOUND GREAT WITHOUT CONTEXT! An experienced mixing engineer understands that it does not matter how a track sounds on it's own, but how it sounds IN THE MIX. Sometimes tracks will sound downright terrible on their lonesome, but they just so happen to interact perfectly with all the other elements. It's a sign of a novice mixing engineer if he/she wastes too much time ensuring a single element sounds perfect, just so it all turns into a muddy, bloated mess when it's in context with the other tracks! So, to address your original statement about avoiding a flawed recording by preemptively making an effort to capture the element in it's purest form by taking extra precaution is surely a sound strategy, but being quick to assume that these random aural variations, that play a role in EVERY MIX, were results of neglectful recording methods, was foolish of you to presume I'm sorry to say. Especially when you didn't check yourself on the fact that the adjustments in question weren't done to single tracks, but were applied to groups of distorted guitars that when played together produced an undesirable hiss. That's like hearing someone claim that phase is "bad", or if someone says short/open circuits in the world of electronics are considered bad. That's just completely stupid, and naive. These phenomena exist because they're products of opposing forces intricately engineered to work together and induce a desired reaction or function. When they occur involuntarily is when they can be considered "bad," but you can't always assume the problems that rear their ugly after the party started were simply ignored while tracking. Sure, you prepare to counter as many acoustic anomalies and aim to secure the cleanest, purest, and sparkly recording session that you set out for, but the real skill is how you can suddenly manage to represent apples in a new, unprecedented, and appetizing light, while also cleverly downplaying the inherent arsenic contained in it's seeds. In conclusion, I'm sure you may find this chunk of text extraordinarily condescending, and I wouldn't blame you. It's obvious you're no stranger to this field of occupation. You just have to be more mindful about what you implicitly say about you, in between the lines, when you make objections like this. But, you're initial comment insinuating that this professional was somehow unaware of how to go about achieving the bare minimum warranted a mild deprecation from me. Your head is in the right place, though.

all recordings have frequencies that need to be dropped when in a mix. unavoidable.

@@hendrix5757You sir, have taught me so much in just that passage. Thank you!

When playing live in big venues I would imagine that EQ is somewhat "less" important, meaning they have their general tone of course, but you don't have to be as precise in a live setting, because of volume for a starts, the dimension added by multiple speakers etc, your hearing won't pick up the same stuff as if you were listening to the produced song through headphones ,also why lives don't sound as good as albums, you don't have the proximity. I think the C-WATT is a hiwatt module that simulates a 70s hiwatt preamp.

RiffsNReviews that's what I thought, thanks

Peripheral Noice.

replicant #85 lol wut r u like 500 pounds?

James Van Metre No I'm 190lbs and 6.33 tall. I find Embody to be the most comfortable chair but again, no headrest and that pricetag ... I used to have Ergohuman but it has the same problem with the bezel on the seat and now I'm just using Markus from Ikea. It's FAR from perfect but at least it's not pinching my thighs. I just keep it as a placeholder until I find something better for a sance price. I might be an extreme case as I'm rather tall and I'm working from home so I sit for ~10 hours a day.

I want to know too. Says "over a dozen" in the description.

Yes....I know. I was just wondering about the rythm guitar section only and hoped some one knew. A dozen might be with leads and everything

Brian Nielsen they had multiple amps going at the same time, and chose the one that fit the song best. There is a small documentary on this, atleast its mentioned briefly. Just look up Meshuggah Live Puk Studio

Rob loyst Nope.

Hey man, I'm not sure why you got that message but it's absolutely not the case. I've purchased several old sessions from before I joined NTM. You do have to sign up for NTM and pay for this current month but, once you're signed up, you can purchase old sessions. I believe this month the Nolly Periphery section is on sale for like $15

the same question

Meshuggah inspired Mnemic's sound.

JaimeEskobar Yes. To clarify, I'm referring to the fact that Tue has worked on all of Mnemic's releases, and I was just seeing if there were any other Mnemic fans that watched the video. I am a long-time fan of the band, and it's because of his work with them that I have become a fan of his as well and entertain the thought of working with him some day. It would be a dream come true.

Signing in!

Yup, Tue pretty much crafted Mnemic's monstrous later sound, which this is pretty reminiscent of.

You mean high pass?

they have low mids

bangasou12 Nothing though is so clear, love that album!

its clear cuz they remade it using their new 30" scale guitars with m8 pick ups, they still have low mids

bangasou12 I listened to it before they remade it, thought it was clear then. But that's good info cheers.

my guess is those 75watt celestions that come with marshall cabs. if thats what they used, i bet thats it. it really scoops the sound and sounds phasey

Its a preamp module

i think from 2 different guitars, left and right

Chris Evans But are they the same two takes?

@@aragorn767 I think so. Reamped through different amps and eq'd slightly different from each other.

Jos Meester only cause he has to for this podcast 😂

James Van Metre not necessarily. I've seen them do podcasts where the engineer is using Cubase, Logic or Reaper to name a few.

Good for you

it looks like they split the guitar signal to 4 different amps that were all playing simultaneously in the same room. Circle of tone (youtuber) has a video about the latest meshuggah recording setup. they then reamped from a clean di signal of the original recording, back through the same 4 amps, but (i'm guessing here) with slightly different settings essentially giving them 4 blends of 4 amps, with everything time aligned perfectly because it's the same playthrough. fuck yeah!

Definitely

Ironically their previous albums guitar tones were created from scratch in cubase using processing/plugins on nothing but a clean di guitar signal (watch the making of Koloss documentary it's on youtube). So, this album has much less processing, what's going on is simple level balancing of the various amps/tones to get the overall tone they were after (with the odd processing for correction here and there). So; much less technology.

Thordendal is the one who writes the most of the music anyway.

Unbiased opinion of a guy that goes by fanaticaldrummer. We get it, you love your drums, go listen to your bongos then.

Are you dead yet