Model 1881 Trapdoor Forager: Cheap Entertainment for the Troops 

It’s better than ‘give them the peasants’

"Hey Chef, what´s today chow?" "Depends what you get." *Hands Forager*

Give a man steak and you’ll feed him for a day, teach him how to hunt and he’ll eat for the rest of his life.

@@thishonestgrifter Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, Give a man a gun and he'll eat as long as he has ammo.

@@alexanderstrickland9036 'let them get pheasants'.

It do be like that.

*swiss disapproval noises*

I think it’s a Da Vinci quote, “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”

What impresses me is that Uncle Sam bothered to spend ANY money on this because as cheap as these things were, they were never going to be cheaper than the muzzle-loaders that most garrisons had before, but Uncle Sam wanted the troopers to have a better hunting weapon, and actually gave it to them. He paid to make these guns, buy the ammunition, ship them all to the garrisons, keep them maintained, and replace them as they were lost or damaged, when he could have just said have an extra barrel of gunpowder and a sack or two of lead shot made by the lowest bidder to put into any old fowling piece you bought yourselves off the passing traders.

Lordy! may the Military rediscover that spirit.

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Well, the idea would be that muzzleloader shotguns were just about the cheapest long-arm in the USA at the time. The USA could have easily found 1,400 or so for not even two bucks a units, and then they'd have had guns without the problem of needing the special cases to work well. Uncle Sam was already sending powder and shot to reload the 20-ga casings, so why not just replace the cases with caps and then you can use most any muzzleloader and if you lost one for whatever reason, a replacement could be had for a song from one of the many passing Americans with an old fowling piece to spare. TV and movies make it look like the West was won with shiny brass, but plenty of Americans were happy to use cheap muzzleloaders well into the early 20th century. Uncle Sam got these guns cheap, sure, but he was still paying more than he to, and that is all the more remarkable to me. Almost brings a tear to my eye to think that our boys in blue were actually getting better than not. :)

Very interesting. You should try to track it down. It's probably sitting in a closet at your cousin's house.

While you're tracking down that trapdoor Springfield, check the attic for an Arisaka.

@@FoxtrotFleet :D

Almost 50 years ago, I was with a friend. We visited his coworker, who owned one of these. Nice weapon.

Do you think you can still find that gun, or has it been sold/lost? Anyhow, this story made my day!

Yeah, and after “Berdankas” there were “Frolovka” the same idea, but mosins converted to bolt action shotguns

@@molodoy.. And no one is called "frolovka" by this name since late 60s. All frolovkas became berdankas. My great grantfathers was a hunters, my grandfather was a hunter, and my father was a hunter. But first time I heard word "Frolovka" it was in Internet in early 2000s. Before that everyone call Mosin shotgun "berdanka". At least in Western Siberia.

@@molodoy.. Just try to remember did you ever heard a typical story from some older people like: "When I was a kid we sneak to collective garden to steal some apples. But we make a noise and woke up old garden keeper, who shoot salt right on my buttcheeks with his berdanka". No one ever say frolovka, when they mean generic rifle-based shotgun.

Im in bosnia and every old gun is a berdanka

@@user-ct8ef8gi6h I dunno i guess it regional thing, tbh i never heard someone refer to refited bolt actions to shotguns as "berdanka". My family is from Ukraine and my father side of family lived in Siberia for a long time

Me too

Sounds like some of my AR builds

Can’t we all?

I got to run a cadet carbine once. FUN! Once you get the rhythm...It's fantastic.

at the beginning of ww1 the US army was smaller than Greece.

Back when the US military wasn’t the rest of the world’s security blanket.

@@terry7907 It's not a blanked, it's a leash

​@@RustedCroakersure keeps them safe😊

@@tacticaltoad1104until they discover oil.

Oooh, a hobby piece. Well lah-dee-dah! I think I too would like one of these as a “hobby piece”. Oh this ol’ thing? This is just my “hobby piece” ... I’m just messing with you. That cracked me up. Sorry.

I agree. I wonder how the action would stand up to modern smokeless shells. Trapdoors are not the strongest action in the world. But, It would still be a handy thing with five pre loaded, black powder shells. Smoking a grouse or a tom turkey would be a pleasure.

@@slowpokebr549 as much as I would want to use smokeless, black powder is just so cool in my opinion. Apart frome cleaning it

@keith moore suicide is ba mkay

Second for a non original for squirrel duty. And maybe some hand throw clays.

Okay I'll be the first to ask. Do you have it now or is it still in the family somewhere? I have my father's first shotgun that's why I'm asking. It was just a bolt action JC Higgins but it's still special to me.

Sounds like something I never knew I wanted. I want a 12ga version of said krag shotgun sounds easier to reload than a 5 shot magazine tube

Which would go directly against all the reasoning behind the shotgun.

@@LazyLifeIFreak What, are you worried that US Army forts on the American frontier will no longer want it or that the US Army out in the territories, financially constrained after the Civil War, won't be able to afford it? Because that's the reasoning behind the shotgun. The reasoning of modern shooters interested in reproductions of the gun will be diametrically different.

@@LazyLifeIFreak I don’t see your reasoning? Is it the “spirit” of the gun where it was converted or is your issue with it having an ejector and being chambered in more modern ammo? Plenty of companies do that with repros, it’s more economically viable to chamber a repro in a similar but much more common modern cartridge

Of make the ejector removable should the shooter desire

Trapdoors don't hold up well to strong loads... might be why

Well considering the meager funds the US army had after the civil war to do this it was more economical for them to do a small batch of rifle conversions and a bucket load of shells than a lot of conversions and same number of shells plus each outpost only really needed the 2 they were issued as the fort personnel numbers for the one Ian was talking about were tiny, no more than about 100 troops at a time i think and 1300 converted rifles was more than enough to outfit every fort.

.950 JDJ

And this is the style we would go, Forty miles a day, On beans and hay. In the Regular Army, O!

I would change the second line to "..and he'll spend a month in the brig for shooting up the officer's outhouse."

@@Bird_Dog00 🤣😂😁

I'd been flat broke if I were you. I mean, even more that I actually am.

Julia's Auction house in Maine is ten minutes from my parent's house, I understand your pain hahah

illinois is like a black hole for guns though. you'd probably need ten certifications and a pony to get in the door. Greetings from Iowa!

@@tankacebo9128 Quad Cities area go brrrr. Fellow Iowan.

@@tankacebo9128 ain’t that the truth lol

One can only dream. :(

Snider-Enfields where also issued with buckshot rounds to camp sentries.

It also cuts down on food and logistical cost. One less item to ship to the fort. Ship them a shotgun with re loadable shells once and tell them to feed themselves.

Neat find!!!

Oh before that time it was just straight up brothels...

Sound like you would still need that shotgun to protect yourself from the local predators.

After 1918 they added tattoo parlors.

@@deniskozlowski9370 LOL. I was thinking the same thing. LOL

@@DH-xw6jp just keep off the dealership.

That is so wholesome! I love it.

Maybe Ian could start each video by changing into sneakers and a camouflage cardigan 😄

Maybe, but I suspect the officers likely had their own shotguns.

@wyomarine I was suspecting the same thing. I have heard of these guns before but with little background info. Am wondering how reliable is your source? Thanks

If these were issued two per company, the officers wouldn't need one at all. There were maybe 5 officers to the company (and more likely 3), and they'd eat with the other officers of the battalion.

Memoirs indicate that officers often had their own shotguns and hunting rifles and would have had little reason to use the one issued for enlisted use. Doubtless some officers were complete a-holes but most of them wouldn't stoop to taking the shotgun meant for enlisted use. The Springfield shotguns were probably kept in the company arms room and would have to be checked out with a permission slip from an officer. An enlisted person couldn't just leave the post on a whim so he'd need a note from an officer both to use the shotgun and to go hunting off-post. Hunting trips were probably a reward for good behavior.

Nah it was probably a detail for the lower enlisted man feed the company

Remember to use only 21/2" black power loads. No modern smokeless or boom.

Sounds like you have a Bannerman conversion look up Zulu shotgun or Bannerman shotgun. see if it matches

Probably the latter. I've seen Gras conversion shotguns with Belgian nitro proof marks, meaning the conversion was done in the 1900s for the commercial market.

@@dustyak79 Closest I can find to my one is this, though on mine the cocking piece has been cut down so there no longer is any purchase for re-cocking. www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-saleroom.com%2Fen-gb%2Fauction-catalogues%2Fsouthams-auctioneers-and-valuers%2Fcatalogue-id-srso10004%2Flot-507dd3e2-f97f-484e-9c8f-a42100cc4112&psig=AOvVaw3xLxMD6E97Q4UzSN2QDJdh&ust=1605982199205000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNiXpI3cke0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAf

Just mix number four buck with BB shot. Works for most anything!

you probably got used to the, frankly astronomical fiber content

Its my Bunny lies over the sea..www.dailymotion.com/video/x6em2cf

Or at least a more interesting history lesson. Some of us grew up in a time when school actually taught something but, his classes are shorter and a hell of a lot more interesting!

Check out the Amazon River, it’s equally insane!

Yep. France had no clue how much land they sold the US in the Louisiana Purchase.

Follow the Missouri, I think it is longer.

[Laughs in USMC]

Who is Bradleys?

@@coolcoolercoolest212 the m2 and m3 bradley apcs (and variants) . A project worth billions which was delayed and remade dozens of times resulting in a vehicle that, fully upgraded, weights more than an m1 Abrams.

@@coolcoolercoolest212 has 25mm of armor and a 20mm autogun . Can have inside 8 to 9 people , depending on the type

Meanwhile "During the Gulf War, M2 Bradleys destroyed more Iraqi armored vehicles than the M1 Abrams."

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Don't know the exact number but 60 times seems little as the total is 3,300 tanks and 2,100 APCs destroyed

@The Thot Police if you are in an even fight, you are at disadvantage

When in war production and quantity is important. Paper shells were cheaper and easier to produce in large numbers. These make sense in small quantities when they have time to reload them. In the trenches it’s better to have many paper shells than a few metallic shells that would need reloaded.

Morale of the story, take care of your ammo and it won't let you down. I've had some of those WW I shotshells and they were pretty heavily lacquered. You would have to swim across the Rhine to make them not shoot.

@@richardtravalini6731 That's kinda underplaying the sheer dampness of the trenches. Storing anything in those trenches meant that, unless it was fully sealed in a metal container, moisture would seep through. Not only from rain and snow, but also fog, ground water, air humidity, etc. Those shells could handle getting splashed with water once or twice, no problem if you wiped them off. But if you have them in your ammo pouch or in crates for weeks before you actually had to use them, then the moisture all around would have had time to seep through any small crack or opening in the porous paper. The shell would probably not even look or feel damp on the outside, but the powder inside would be wet.

@The Thot Police But nobody else used paper cartridges in the trenches, only the trench shotguns did, and it was a definite disadvantage.

and 20ga :)

@@Gungeek I have only seen 16 gauge myself, probably because 16 has historically more popular in Europe. I'm a bit Surprised you would know that, though i haven't seen all your videos.

@@mrfancypanzer549 well i have a swedish one in 20ga :)

@Mr. Shlock I wasn't saying they were, I just didn't think the turkey's range extended that far. I could be wrong.

Vinegar was one of things that was useful even though a lot of the time it was produced by accident.

Hot, soapy water is what you clean black powder guns with. Acetic acid(vinegar) does nothing to neutralize the nitric and sulfuric acids in the residue. Where did you hear that myth about vinegar?

@@dbmail545 On the frickin' box of ammunition that he just showed you.

@@mfree80286 HAHAHAHA

@Mr. Shlock Asking Ian that question, but I suppose it could be an in general question

@Mr. Shlock It's a legitimate question and I'm curious if he has or has not. I do not recall him ever mentioning doing so.

What do you mean?

@@bryceforsyth8521 Bored soldiers roaming the countryside wasting their ammunition on a game or finding things to do, giving them hunting guns gives them practice and entertainment on the cheap

@@TheHacknor In Iraq and Afghanistan all kinds of interesting firearms pop up now and again for troops to shoot.

@@TheHacknor also it keeps them off alcohole and doing dumb things to each other

@@TheHacknor Well OP did say "military grade equipment", which sounds irrelevent if that's the case.

Great film /!

According to Othais over at C&Rsenal, some later versions of this same idea (a single-shot foraging shotgun) proved handy as defensive weapons against highly-motivated Filipino guerillas after the Spanish American War. He discusses it in the Winchester 1897 episode.