A thorough look at the M140i, what makes them such great cars and where their weaknesses lie. How these weaknesses can be addressed through modification and how a well-modified M140i compares to an M4 as an ownership proposition.
Great to see another video on the 140 being gone. I think you summed up what these cars are perfectly, they really are hot rods. With my 240 I found myself focusing all of the performance upgrades (other than the obligatory remap) on the chassis and suspension. Even then, as you pointed out, the comfort aspect is a massive bonus for these cars so I have tried to preserve that as best as possible. The M lites have a depth to them that ordinary cars and many more overt performance cars often lack which probably makes them deeply appealing. The chassis really does need a lot of work before the car can be properly enjoyed, but anyone who owns one knows you enjoy it from day one anyway. It’s interesting as with my 230i with 250hp the chassis tuning felt well judged for that power level but with the B58 there is an obvious mismatch which is amusing at first but frustrating long term. The saving grace is that the cars can be turned around dynamically for reasonable money… until you get a diff. 2 and a bit years in its completely worth it though and I finally have the junior M car that BMW marketed, but never actually sold. I have the manual gearbox in my car and so it always felt like a driver’s car to me, but the chassis mods (springs, dampers, M control arms and tension struts, subframe inserts, bump stops, LSD, wider and lower offset wheels) really allow it to come good and make it equally enjoyable at high and low speeds. One thing that did improve the sharpness and agility to a greater degree than I had expected was a strut brace, though I think the combination of the brace and the better geometry provided by the control arms and tension struts is likely what made this improvement so pronounced. The M lites probably would have cast an even longer shadows on the full spec M cars if BMW had given the cars what they needed from the offset. I still king to own an M car one day as from what I’ve heard from other owners and from what you describe it would suit me as a driver and my circumstances just as well as my 240, if not more so. It’s been fun to hear your thoughts on the 140 again, I almost wish you’d buy another one just so you’d make more videos on them 😂
@@webr3 18x8.5 et35 square with 225/40 front and 245/40 rear. Front fitment became even tighter with LCA though so I plan to move to 18x8 front et40 and 18x9 rear ET45 so I can run 235 front and 255 rear without a chance of rubbing.
mods tier list yes please!! fantastic video, thanks for generating amazing value from your experiences and sharing your journey with all of us - i really did learn a lot from your m140i series, cheers mate
Excellent description. Having been an M car owner and now a comparatively long term M140 owner your description sums up my feelings when comparing the two. Yes I've added the LSD, Birds suspension, underbody and under bonnet brace and lighter wheels and it's a bit more chuckable and fun while retaining that ease of use and actually improving the comfort by eliminating the pogo-ing of the stock suspension. I love mine (had it 6 years now) use it daily and won't be getting rid of it anytime soon. And the dog fits in the back😊.
Great to hear others can relate to the experiences, one thing I think goes unsaid is the upsides of the non-//M cars.. practicality, comfort and ease of enjoyment go a very long way in a daily! 😊
My ownership of a M140 has greatly been enhanced from all your posts so thank you for your time and help. Quafe LSD Birds B1 suspension M3/4 LCA's and TC's Front and rear bracing with bushes all thanks to your posts. Spot on. Who knows might persuade my lad to get an MX5 lol
Just bought a 140, adore it. Looking at the mods you mentioned for chasis, was going to get Birds fit the Quaife LSD and they run a custom Bilestein and Eibach set which looks ace, its a properly engineered solution just for the F20/21. Had a long chat with the owner, Kevin Bird, and he also said he wouldn't bother mapping the ZF8. Now, from what Ive heard, the XHP map stage 3 gives 50% faster shifts by increasing line pressure and engaging the clutch packs sooner. They also claim it does not impinge on the service life, they say it will last longer because less slip. Plus, the line pressure only engages when you're giving it the beans, not all the time, so it's clever. Additionally heard of almost no-one having an issue with a XHP mapped ZF8. I have found in sport or sport + on the paddles, shifting is a little slow. Love to know your thoughts on the topic. Will watch your other vids now! Thanks.
I don't think you can go far wrong with following guidance given by Birds, they're exceptionally experienced in terms of optimising BMWs, I'm a big fan! My own thoughts on gearbox mapping and why I didn't map mine... I thought the standard mapping was so good for day to day use that I didn't want to mess with it. I didn't want to make it worse in day to day use for a marginal improvement when driving quickly. TBH I never felt the box mapping was poor, even on track. 👍
Great video as always. Use mine also mostly for track and weekends with 95% similar mods. Would be very interested to get your view on how to maintain these cars if you use them like that. (Spark plugs, Oil, did you replace injectors or plan on to?, PCV, brakes, tires (semi slick options), etc)
Came across your series on this car during the research phase of my recent M140i purchase. Also a keen MX5 NC owner and do many track days a year. I think driving a well sorted NC on track spoils most 'normal' cars but I'm finding your assessments generally in line with my own so far. As a daily/fast road car it's hard to beat for the money but demands respect and awareness of it's nuanced limitations. Great content 👍
Will and I (the two of us on the channel) were discussing just this today... MX5s are so, so good they spoil us when it comes to handling and fun - you can't tell people if they've not experienced it for themselves though! The 140 is such a great daily though, effortless, comfortable, practical and THAT drivetrain. 😁
Great video. You describe the M140i perfectly. I have lived with mine from new for 5 years and it has all the chassis mods and a stage1. I keep being tempted by M2/3/4 but your assessment of the real world M4 ownership has only just confirmed why the M140i will remain in the garage. The problem with living with that B58/ZF combo is it makes every other car feel average or you worry about the expense.
I call mine a "Muscle Hatch". Its far more hot rod than hot hatch, absolutely agree. Ive done a tonne of mods (LSD, Chassis brace, coil overs, camber plates, M3 UCA/LCA, Brakes, braided lines etc plus all the obligatory power mods as well. I do motorkhana and it is unbelievable fun. But on the road, its so much fun to own, because of the engine. It has usable power everywhere and the ZF is so much nicer than rubbish DSGs for 99% of car use. That and the hilarious fun RWD balance. FWD and AWD are so boring and plain.
@@webr3 Couple of reasons. I did the M3 UCA/LCA first, then coils (which came with camber plates). But the second is the stiffer bushes in the M3 UCA/LCA mean the steering feel is improved quite a lot. You also gain a little track width, which also helps improve front grip
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Yes exactly that. Small little timed circuit you do a run on (not a flying lap). Massive fun in a 140. Regularly beat stg2+ RS3's there and are generally in top 10 on PS4's (most stuff above me on Semis).
They certainly both sparkle in their own way, I think my 140, once fettled was the better car, that I’d want as my daily. One last thrash… M4 please! 😅
It's the fastest thing for the money with reasonable running costs, which is why they have been so successful and many have been written off by inexperienced drivers. It's not perfect and the engine dominates the experience as standard.
@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS myself and 2 car enthusiast friends have all visited the scenery in the past in our 140's. The open diff and pogo shocks are the main culprit coupled with some over spirited driving.
It would be interesting to hear your opinion on if there’s a rival hatchback car that is as useable and comfortable as the M140i but also comes from the factory handling as well as your modified one? no AWD.
the m140i the only rear wheel drive hatch on the market u can still buy, the only rival hatch for the m140i is the rs3 and the new m135 even tho its quite slower with a worst trans
Subbed! Unfortunatly I don't own a B58 car but an N55 (435i). I do however share your opinion on the 6 cyl. F2x and F3X platform and the needed mods to get the most out of it. 1 on 1 exactly as you explained!💪
An absolute pleasure! Loved both cars, enjoy sharing thoughts and also enjoy watching these sorts of vids myself so good to feed into the collective library of experience. 👍
Great insight, it's the exact same take away I got from reading up on the m140. It's such a pity having to get LCAs, chassis brace, ARB, LSD and subrame bushes to actually enjoy the car probably. All the parts are very expensive, which makes the great value of the m140 non existent here in Ireland. I'm on the hunt for a new car, so many to decide 125i 330d, 335i, 135i DCT, m135i.... But all seem to have terrible chassis and need 5 or 6k spent to get a good handing car.
How great would it have been if they’d just added those BMW front arms as standard along with voidless rubber bushes at the back and dare I say come up with some competent shock absorbers. Surely wouldn’t have broken the bank and would have improved the car so so much. 😩
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Thanks for that! 😂Back to the 140! Just wondering what your thoughts would be on my current set-up if that's okay? Given you have such a breadth of experience with the 140 platform. I current have the basics: B8s, Lowering Springs, Powerflex inserts, m performance bump stops, some spacers, PS5 all corners running stage 2 power. I'm finding a real lack of confidence in corners atm, it's fine flying down a B-road but going into those corners it's quite unsettled even with the upgrades. I've watched your m140 series and took away the list of potential mods, I've then gone to a suspension specialist nearby only to be told he doesn't recommend most of it which left me a bit disheartened. I was looking doing the m3/4 LCA conversion with the TS, anti-roll bars, drop links and a little bit of a spicy extra in the form of an m3/4 strut brace (just because it looks the **** 😂). The guys told me that he LCAs he's had a few people put them on and take them back off for some reason and that I shouldn't bother with the anti-roll bars; suggested that I just get some BC-Racing coils with adjustable top mounts and leave it at that. Granted this bloke isn't a m140i specialist but he's very reputable in the world of suspension so it's just left me a bit disheartened to hear that. Just wondering what your take is on the above? After feeling that lack of confidence in the corners I had my mind set one dealing with the problem or just chucking it all to the side and getting a M2C which neither my Mrs nor my wallet would like the sound of currently! 😂
A delayed reply, but let me know the following... What springs do you have and how low is the car? What are the road like that you're finding the car unsettled on and is this feeling at the front, rear or both? It is lacking a feeling of being planted? Not having a confident bite in the front end? The rear end feeling loose? How are your brakes?
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS no problem at all! Thank you for taking the time to reply!! Brakes are complexly standard at the moment, no signs of scoring on the discs. Pads haven’t been changed in my one year of ownership. Springs are MMR 20mm front and 30mm rear, with Bilstein B8s raising the car roughly 5mm respectively. Roads I’m not feeling convince on would be your tighter, sharper b-roads with an uneven surface. It’s the sharp braking and turning into the corner which isn’t inspiring confidence for me at the minute even with my upgrades. I’m not much of a well versed driver when it comes to driving fast and the particular nuances in how the car handles; if I had to take a stab at where I think the problem lies it feels like it’s at the front end, I don’t feel like the back end is stepping out on me (it does sometimes but usually that’s a greasy surface and a traction issue). That’s probably a good way to summarise it, the front is feeling a little ‘wobbly’ when performing those sharp precise manoeuvres. It’s lacking that bite and doesn’t make me feel confident when turning into a corner. Apologies if there is a lack of clarity here, as stated I’m not the most experience in my understanding of how these things work. I’m still learning what it really even is to properly feel the steering of the car. The goal for me is to take my ‘beginner’ setup and turn it into something more advanced that I can have a little play with my friends with every now and again, without having to drop serious money on an M car. Hopefully a nice set of coilovers and supporting mods will do the trick! Would love to know your thoughts!
I had one for 4 years, and unfortunately had a moment in traction off mode, involving a patch of diesel on a dual carriageway, ended up leaving the road backwards and the insurance wrote it off as a total loss. I spent thousands on it, major service every 7000 miles, upgraded M Performance brakes, 455bhp/634nm, and much more. I miss the engine and gearbox (ZF8 with xHP3), they are just about the best engine & gearbox on sale today. Unfortunately, the rest of the car is just a 1 series with m-sport adaptive suspension. To turn it into a real M car rival, you would have to spend as much in upgrades to the suspension and chassis, as a real M car would cost. With the insurance payout, I put a big deposit down on an OG M2. It is levels ahead for steering feel, suspension, ride, handling, cornering, and of course looks. M140i is a great daily, but I can see them dropping in value constantly until they are in chav territory like Impreza's did. They will get ruined, and only a small number of standard cars will survive and be worth big money in years to come. I have every confidence my OG M2 will never drop below 20k, and then rise rapidly until they are worth mega money.
I honestly don't know I'm afraid as I've got such little experience with 4WD cars. I owned a 435d x-drive and my feeling at the time was that it could have been improved with a diff. I will be at Birds BMW soon, so will ask for their experiences/recommendation and report back. 👍
Great video, and ive just subscribed. I currently own a GR Yaris which i love but ive got an itch to scratch on a M140i. You have definitely given me some great advice. Can i ask why did you sell yours in the end and have you driven the GR Yaris yet? if so, do you think I will regret my decision ?🤔cheers👍🏻
What a great car the Yaris is... I've never driven one but boy do I love Toyota for still making interesting cars. I strongly suspect you'd be very underwhelmed by the drive of the M140i, whilst being blown away by the drivetrain and over time seduced by the great comfort. It's such a balancing act finding a car that does everything South of an M5!! :-) Unfortunately I had a relationship fail. lost my house and had to start over, I intended on keeping the 140 as I loved it, but house prices rose at just the wrong time for me post covid and I had to take a sensible pill and sell the car. It hurt a bit having done the hard yards earlier in life with crap cars getting on the property ladder, but at least I had few cars I could sell to help put me back on track.
Sorry to hear about all your bad luck with the housing market etc and the unfortunate breakdown of your relationship. Sometimes needs must and we have to prioritize things in life hey . I appreciate your honest advice, I've still got the GR and love it to bits so your advice has made me keep hold of it for the moment I think. Keep the content coming if you can, you obviously know your stuff, good luck to you 👍🏻
Thanks a lot Grant, kind of you. I'd certainly encourage going and test driving a 140, and keeping an eye out for one with a bunch of well-chosen modifications, especially now the values have tumbled. 👍
great vids! I saw a video from two years ago that you sold your 140 I, did you pick up another one because I see a lot of videos that show modifying what looks to be the same car🧐🤔
Thank you very much for your entertaining and informative videos. I have a question: would you recommend swapping the subframe bushings on an m140 for some solid ones to get even closer to an m car? Thanks in advance
great insights! Would love to hear any thoughts on the m140i versus the few grand cheaper m135i (with the N55) and what you lose out on in real world terms.
My personal take is that I'd rather an m135i with the chassis mods and diff than an m140i without, but if you can sensibly afford the latter I think it's worth the extra money.
