I absolutely love that you charge more money for better quality dive training. I got PADI certified last year and I was absolutely terrified, but my husband had gotten certified the previous year, loved it so much and really wanted it to be something we could do together -- I ended up having to pay extra for an additional night one-on-one in the pool with the instructor before going to take my tests. Just having that ONE night helped me so much. I wouldn't have passed otherwise.
James,As Instructor I myself train beyond the standards.I choose this and my return student for more training reflects this.I know Instructors that have put students in dive chambers and just push out numbers .I would never become one if these Instructors and I agree you want to receive quality Instructor time there is a cost involved.Keep up the good work Thanks Mark.
I would happily pay a fair amount for an instructor that I click with and is actually invested in my training being meaningful and adjusts the training to my personal needs and skill level. Throw in some good nuggets of knowledge and make the training fun and all inclusive, as in just be up front with what is and is not included and not only will I leave a good tip, I’ll sing your praises and send more people your way!
It was a turning point in my diving when I discovered Diver’s Ready and then started training with you. It opened my eyes to good training (and I willingly opened my wallet) and learned a valuable lesson: You get what you pay for. Since then, I have invested in myself with other top tier instruction (also not cheap) and guess what, my confidence and skills as a diver have been remarkably impacted. Looking forward to Advanced Wreck, bud!
As a recent graduate of James’ Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures course, I can assure anyone contemplating signing up for any of his courses that with James you get WAY more than you are paying for. Yes, it costs money, but it is without question the best value-for-training program I have received (and I have professional dive certifications from three of the largest certification agencies). If you want to engage one-on-one with a knowledgable, experienced, and genuinely FUN professional, save up your money and get on James’ schedule. I am a FAR better diver and dive professional for having spent the time with James.
I've made diving a proper career in a local dive center with minimal tourism and therefore local divers.. I learnt to dive at 12, before you could at that age. We acquired the dive center when I was 14 as a family business and completed me OW at 15. Started working full-time at 16, DM as soon as I was 18 and OWSI that same year. Technician and Adv Nitrox instructor in my early 20's. I took over the running of the center in my early 30's and became a Tmx instructor before taking over ownership in my mid 30's. I've just turned 40 and i'm 9 months post heart attack and unable to work or do much else. Basically I've given my life to this industry 7 days a week, literally 365 days a year. For my trouble, i earnt about 1/2 minimum wage for working 2x - 3x the hours. In an effort to survive, i've been selling stock on ebay. Just today i've had one guy claim that the new liftbag i sold him has a 2" cut in the top and another that offered 25% of the listed price and then sent me an abusive message when I declined it! The price is already good as i'm selling at a discount to move the stock working on pre-covid prices, which have seen a roughly 20% increase. The industry needs to change, or there likely won't be much of one.
Such a good video! People underestimate what a hard job the diving industry is and how difficult it is to make a living from it. Many instructors stop after a few years and change career. Good coaches cost money.
It's all relative. SCUBA seems more expensive than rock climbing, kayaking, skiing, etc., but less expensive than flying, boating, etc. I've talked to many highly educated and skilled SCUBA divers and they routinely say that choosing an instructor is much more important than specific agency affiliation (though many seem to prefer SDI/TDI). I got into SCUBA for fun and to see cool stuff and locales. It does seem like a lot of new instructors are being churned out, with a fair amount of turnover, and generally it seems like a fairly low-paying job similar to other recreational jobs.
YES! I went out of my way to find a good center with a strict instructor for both my OW and AOW and i feel much more confident/safe in the water. Ive seen so many other centers passing people who dont show the required skills and become "someone elses problem"
Hey James, definitely not an instructor BUT, earned my C-Card back when dinosaurs roamed the planet. Firstly nothing has changed since aforementioned dinosaur experience - it's still a race to the bottom, and to place it in context my C-Card was validated in 1987 and it cost me $299 to complete the Open Water course (of a now defunct agency) and today in 2023 find LDS's who offer courses at $450 and less (like that''s half the inflation rate). Admittedly my dive course comprised of 10 dives of which 6 had to be open water greater that 10 metres and my 'school time' was about 30 hours over about 10 weeks, so I still dive with my FAUI C-Card which draws laughs from Instructor Candidates - but I can still run rings around them when it comes to understanding Boyle's, Charles's and Guy Lussac's laws. I've never been bent (touch wood), I've never run out of air, I've never exceeded my no deco limits (without a computer) and while my gas consumption isn't as sharp as it used to be, I still think I'm safer than 50% of divers. One day I'd love to drop by, do some awesome dives and then relax with a quiet ale, pale ale or lager. Keep up the good and honest work.
I totally agree with your perspective, when people complain about cost, my attitude is, just go do something else. If you cannot afford scuba diving, try snorkeling. I REALLY enjoy snorkeling. I find it so relaxing and fun, once I get going I don't want to stop. As far as 'discount' intrucstion schools, that is why for things that relate to public safety you need laws and regulatory governing bodies to regulate the market providers, so they have to set a minimum standard (including pricing, to discourage discount services).
I've never understood this race to the bottom James. Any sane person should want the best training possible and I would always prefer to pay for that level of training where you feel safe and happy and you get the most out of what you are learning. Learning with a good quality experienced instructor is actually better value pound for pound. Why would you scrimp on your training and put your life at risk !
You can spend as little or as much as you want. If you are a once in a while diver you can rent stuff . If you want to get into more advanced diving prepare to reach in the pocket. You can get the cheap brain surgeon or you can pay for quality. You don’t always get what you pay for but you will know when you didn’t get what you wanted
Hello, I’m interested in becoming a dive instructor and I’ve been trying to figure out the best way to do this-it looks like you have things figured out pretty good. I got my PADI Openwater and everything you discuss here rings true, any advice for someone just graduating and wanting to make this a career?
I always feel like I pay for my instructors previous investments into diving. He is trained, has all the gear AND is taking (potential) risks (cave and tec) to teach me. All those things come with a high price. And that's fine, I gladly pay big money for my instructors experience
Holy cow has inflation really hit the prices in the states that hard? I reckon you could get an entire scuba set in the eu for almost half the price at the moment. My god I should get that new wing asap if this is the price curve to be expected...
You're the absolute worst....at expressing the truth. Your page isn't for the faint at heart but you explain things well. You don't make things easy, you do give all angles which is interesting but you certainly have that mosquito tendency. I don't blame you. I'm with you James and I've stayed with techwise as you have recently during RF4. I just wonder why you're scaring away so many people. Leave that to the bugs. To me money is no issue so I don't get scared at a cert. I'm actually so confused by your video. Cheers, Gregory.chevalier
I think it's logical for the student to presume that a diving course is a diving course. So if that student sees one offered for $400 and one for $300, the question is not "Why is left out in the $300 course that's in the $400 course?", it's "Why are you charging $100 more than the other guy for the same thing?" It's up to the instructor charging more to explain why his course is so much more expensive. I agree with your explanations, but it's not something you can assume an upcoming diver to know. Your course description should explain the price of your course if it's substantially higher than competing courses.
Hey James, love the show, great content. I watch from the UK and this was a great article. Since I assume your audience is global, it would be worth mentioning the club structure we have in the UK ie. BSAC. It's a great way of introducing younger and less financially able people to the sport of diving with training paths to high levels of recreational diving qualifications and beyond!
@@sidemountsarge There are some great clubs, but some truly terrible ones too. I've seen some that train purely to help cover other costs in the club and for the "instructors" to sell off their old junk equipment. I put instructors as a quote because I've seen people that couldn't cut it on the local dive boats join the club and become instructors very soon after.
It’s been 2 years since I went pro and I’m still working on instructor certifications to teach the things I want to teach. I will say, the money I spent for a week with you bought me one of the best weeks of diving and learning I’ve done.
@S. M. I think that's underselling it. Instructor time is 1:1. There isn't 5 student pilots building time in the same plane at the same time with 1 instructor. Aviation fuel is more expensive. Insurance is more expensive. Maintenance on the plane is more expensive and undiluted (an hour of engine time is an hour of engine time, regardless of if it's a boat or plane... but that boat is going to spread out the hour across more people). The training time is also longer.
This is a problem in all occupations that is people's hobby. I'm involved in motorsport customers always negotiating and what they always forget there hobby is your livelihood.
As someone that is starting his career on the professional side of the Diving to have a retirement job, I agree, you get what you pay for. Whether that is the equipment or the training. It is a love of mine so I have no issue paying the price of admission!
As a skydiver, I can fully respect this video. Btw, sharing parachutes is a thing. Lol… FAR more expensive than scuba which is why I don’t jump anymore unless it’s off a boat and wearing scuba equipment.
@@mgancarzjr amen brother! I remember the good ol’ days when jumping out of a twin otter was the norm at $20 and up to 14K. Every DZ I’ve spoken to lately only rocks a C182 and the price has gone up and the jump altitude down! Bring on the ocean and dive gear!
I've just started cycling again. Ideally i'd have a DH bike 7k, XC bike 5k, Hardtail, 2k Emtb 6k, Gravel bike 5k and road bike 5k. So that's 30k and another 10k to fit out my workshop to store and maintain the bikes.
@@diveguernsey6521 Sounds like you’re splurging on top of the line gear and can afford to cut some costs there. My old XC Specialized was about $2k and that was a very capable bike. And if this has become a dick measuring competition, don’t get me started on aviation. Lol… That’s the ultimate expensive hobby!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! As an instructor I ask prospective students, who are looking for the cheapest price, if they want to be qualified or just certified. I do not want to certify students; I want them to be qualified. Therefore, I am not the cheapest nor the quickest instructor in regards to any training.
Not thinking too hard about it (or looking it up), I would guess your kit cost around 3000 +/- 250 USD if bought new right now. 800-1100 regs 600-800 bcd 180 fins 120 mask 250 light 120 dSMB/reel 400 wetsuit 150 booties 150 wetnotes/whatever is in that pouch Edit....forgot the Perdix....add 1000 so around 4000 USD Second edit after the video....I was not expecting to be that close on the aggregate cost
As a recently certified OW diver, I looked at all 3 of my local dive shops before picking one for training. The cost differential didn't factor into which I chose. I chose the one that I felt most comfortable with and happened to be closest to my house. Their policy of if someone signs up for a course on a certain date, you get the course regardless of whether anyone else signs up also impressed me. I signed up and I guess because the course started the week after (Daytona's) Bike week, I was the only student and got private lessons. Diving is expensive but addicting.
"diving is expensive"... Coming from someone opening my own shop, thats an understatement. Also i see big upsides to being a sdi facility and flexible teaching tactics.
I'm not sure it really is anymore. I see lots of people spend far more on say an ebike to ride to the pub a few times a year. Much of the equipment prices have not risen with inflation in the 25 years i've been in the industry. Reg 3-400, bcd 2-300, Cyinder 180, computer 300, mask 50, Fins 75. These are not much different from early 2000's prices. Just think how much people spend on a mobile phone these days.
I mean, I do agree with dive training needing to be high quality, but economics is also a thing. and sure lowering the price will most often lower what's included it, full agree as well. But for most peeps: if 2 shops offer the same service (on paper) for a different price, it's common sense to go for the cheaper one. unless you justify why your price is higher, it might just be like a fashion thing like "we're {insert generic fashion brand} so you'll have to pay us 1K extra just for the prestige we bring". which is something a lot of people don't care about. so yeah, you shouldn't need to, but having a good explanation that justifies why your training is more expensive is a big thing. If you show 2 identical looking items and just tell peeps that one is 100bucks more expensive, and they can't see why, then obvi they're going for the cheaper one. sure, some people would pay extra cause 'the pope spit on it' or 'elvis looked at it', but a lot of peeps won't. So as far as we know, the more expensive dive shop is charging extra cause it's built around a toilet where jacques cousteau once had a massive sh*t, but that doesn't make the training any better.
Diving instruction should never be a place to skimp on cost. I did my research and found the instructor with the best reputation from the local dive community and waited for an opening in his class.
Thank you, James, for great video! Everything you said so true as an instructor myself, I can't believe how much dive shops are willing to compromise on quality and safety just to get a price down. It's absolute madness. This sport is expensive, and for a reason, it should not be at the expense of an instructor wages or people's safety.
You speak out of my heart and I'm only an ambitious diver (no plans at all to go professional) Quality of the training and trust in the trainer is so important! And so as you said very well...nothing is for free, why would it be? 😅
$3,200 would be my guess for your OC Rec setup (can't see if your Perdix is there but I'm guessing yes). Also can't see if you've got an AI transmitter on the first stage. Edit after watching - guessing I was low on the regs, wetsuit and BPW.
Excellent explanation James!!! I wish I had known you back when I was becoming an open water scuba diver. Now a Master Diver, I’ve seen a lot of what you’re describing here. Sad state of our diving community. Please keep cranking out these informative expos’e of how things really are and hopefully as more of us wake up to what’s really happening, our hobby/careers in diving will change for the better. Thank you for your service to the diving community!
Your section on instructor economics blew my mind, as someone who fell victim to the utter circus of rotating new-instructor-to-dropout, this resonates with me so much, and is something I suspected was happening all along for a few years after. As someone passionate about sharing knowledge of things I care about I always figured I would become an instructor, but as so many find out, couldn't sustain the lifestyle. It's a real shame that the mainstream way of building a career in this industry is unsustainable for the vast majority. There are ways around this, such as mentorship schemes like the one you mentioned which sound fantastic, hats off to you! However it seems that this is the minority of cases... Great video as always, thank you for speaking up about a topic that is rarely discussed in the open.
When I did my open water last year I had a look at what I was spending and how much I got. When you look at the pool sessions, open water dives and the cost of equipment you borrow I reached the conclusion it was exceptional value for money. I'm not convinced anyone is making much from diving (outside of maybe Mares or Suunto), they're doing it for the love of the sport. I feel it's important that we keep supporting the industry and getting more people into diving as it's for our benefit too. It's expensive compared to running or tennis. But then, no one dies from tennis because they didn't get their racquet serviced.
The big companies are struggling too, just look at Apeks / Aqualung. It's rare to see such a fall from grace. One big exception is Shearwater, I think because they maintain pricing to keep everyone happy. You mention Suunto, at one point in the early 2000's they had a huge market share, perhaps 90%. They thought they were invincible and cut dealer margins to near 0 and put out a bad product. These days, i bet they are lucky to have 25% share and that's decreasing all the time as Garmin take over the watch market.
James, you made my day!!! @3:45 "this individual used much more colorful language than that..." loooooooool.... I cannot stop laughing 🤣🤣🤣I love this British humour.
I've often wondered if dive gear is priced high due to the percentage rate of people willing to take it up and stick with it resulting in the brands needing to make their money off a smaller number of people. But if gear was cheaper would the amount of people taking diving up increase 🤔. I imagine there is a high profit margin on dive gear compared to cost of manufacture
To be fair, James does invest in quality. It may not be top of the line, but it's stuff that's reliable and hard wearing. That's something you do pay for. You can put together a dive setup that's half that price, but it's stuff that either won't grow with you, or won't last. You can get a single tank tropical regulator set for $300~$350, or you can get an $800 set that can do tropical and cold water diving, single tank, twins, and sidemount configurations. Likewise, you can get a BCD for $300 that will serve for the occasional recreational dive, or you can get a BPW for $900 which can stand year round heavy use. You get what you pay for. If occasional warm water diving is what you're looking for, you don't need to get anywhere near $4000 in gear. You can get a full setup for about $1500. If you go the used route, you can even go much cheaper (but beware who you're buying from).
I think what deters people is PADI charging so much for an online course which should basically be free as they don't even provide a Text book want people to get verified make the online bit free and charge semble rates for the rest of the course
That's why I joined a BSAC club (British Sub Aqua Club) . I got quoted one price which included everything from the course to the club membership and equipment use. They're not interested in student turnover and quick profit (it's a non-profit club anyway) but rather experience and community and diver safety. Unless there's a specific skill or course I want, I will never train through a commercial agency!
As a new instructor I am learning the ropes with a Dive shop. I am adding more then the minimum to my teachings, (IE: DSMB deployment at depth, Gear, Better weighting, good boyoncy etc.) discussing saftey etc. Since I have a full time carrer in another industry I am happy (at this time) to learn from other instructors. After I beleive I have the experience to be a good instructor then I will venture out, build my brand and become more of a "Private" instructor teaching saftey, skills etc so I do not see divers running on reefs in Cozumel. (Yes, taking fins off, video and actully running in boots on the reef) Thanks James for all the great content.
I wish I'd had an instructor like you. I had an instructor for my OW who didn't even want to do the minimum let alone extra, when it came to verifying skills in OW after the doing the pool dives he told us he couldn't be bothered and we only ended up doing half. Someone died at the centre 8 months later and multiple HSE violations were found. I paid an instructor at a different dive centre to go through everything with me again and it made such a world of difference.
Thank you James. I have been an instructor for 25 years and said the same things for a long time. Keep up the good work. Stay happy and healthy. SAFe Diving
Do you put your prices on RU-vid? You said in the video you're happppy to give out your prices, but I've been binge watching all your videos and I honestly hadn't a clue anything you charge other than "more than others, and it's worth it". How much more than the others are you worth?
This was my mindset as a brand new OW student: dive shop X charges $300 for the entire OW course, dive shop Y charges $400. I knew nothing about scuba and my only information was the price and the card that I would get at the end; so the "product" in my mind was that card, and if it's the same in either case, then I should go with the cheaper shop. Obviously it was ignorance (and some stupidity) on my part. I still would've preferred if the $400 dive shop explained to me about the safety aspect, the skills involved, importance of a good instructor etc., I probably would've gone with them instead.
I got lucky when I got certified, my instructor I met through my neighbor had dived since the 70s, he came to my pool with all the gear and let me make payments, he also sold me most of my 1st time gear(had to deal with a oversized BCD for 150 dives but it was brand new), I went through OW and Advanced pretty quick, I was also living in Lauderdale by the Sea and had shore diving and we did lots of deep wrecks, I got to dive with my instructor well after my courses were done and all the experienced divers around me, I still dive with him sometimes all these years later. It was way cheaper back then for courses and equipment, I'm a Dive Master but have never worked in the industry, that may change before I get too old to do it.
I think you should do a follow up.on this video I'm off to Turkey and was planning on a recreational dive the resort I'm going to has 3 dive centers according to Google but it prob has many more in the UK I pay around £30 a dive at local dive center more if it more than 15 miles offshore now I have contacted the 3 dive centers and the cost vary wildly even though they are all offering the same thing £160 £120 and £50 for 2 dives thinking they prob price high knowing you'll likely knock them down I tried negotiating a better price got them down to £120 £100 and £50 considering I pay £30 for a dive in UK I would expect turkey to be around £60 or slightly cheaper for two dives as the wages are less in Turkey
I’m a starving student. One dive in the pool out of 6 months. I have found dives at really reasonably priced places in some European countries. For amazing quality, in English, and ability check regulations. (EU). Obviously I shop around, there’s poor quality everywhere. I feel like an entitled foreigner.
When I go to the doctor for my health care I never pick the cheapest or least experienced, NOPE I could care less what it cost, I want the older person who has seen it all and knows what he or she is doing!! Afterall, almost everything we buy for scuba diving is for life support right? And the instructor is there to teach how to stay alive and safe underwater right?
I love diving but i do not have the time and chances to do it to often and for sure money is limited. I still invest more mony for good training and then just rent good equipment instead of buying (cause i cannot afford buying that good quality material) A good training is like the life insurance! Good rental equipment is much easier to find than good trainers ;)
Let me tell you the truth. I also was a "potential student ', James, you are overpriced. You can sugarcoat it, validate it, and try to explain away why you think you need to charge more money for your training but you're still overpriced, still. I'll be glad to tell you why. I took a look at your pricing for your tech diving courses first. I had no idea what prices should be, so I had no standard to compare to. I looked at John Chatterton's pricing, and his pricing was considerably less. Then I thought, why would James Knowbody have much more expensive courses than someone with much more tech and wreck experience to offer, in addition to the actual coursework. Not to mention Chatterton has the brand and name. Chatterton, now has stopped teaching, so to add to AN/DP and Adv. Wreck certs, I received from John, I started looking again because I wanted to get certified Normoxic Trimix. I actually looked at your prices again and was put off again by your high prices. I then called and asked John who would he recommend to get Normoxic Trimix course? He told me the name of an instructor is up in Pensacola. This instructor is also much less expensive than you and is a top-notch instructor. Plus, we have the Oriskany and other great wrecks to penetrate there. The course I did was an Adv. Wreck/Normoxic Trimix. I already had my Adv. Wreck cert but, and with an open mind I learned even more by taking it twice. Anyway James, yes you are overpriced.
I understand that we are going through tough times. None saying that my wife and I agree with you James. People will always make a way for what they want. Here’s to the email guy. Maybe he should have said if I gave you 2/3 down can we work out a payment plan. Some people will never learn. Keep the great content coming. Someday I would like to dive with you Dive safe y’all Will 12:11
Hi James, I totally agree your comments and concerns regarding the quality of OW instruction in today’s cut throat market. I’ve only been diving since 2004 and when I reflect upon the training methodology used to gain certification, I find it to have been over-priced and lacking in instructor quality and quantity of knowledge gained for OW certification. I’ll step up to be corrected if my thoughts on restructuring OW certification are ridiculous and fanciful. OW Certification should 1. include repetition, repetition and repetition by teaching the basics of diving ie equipment preparation - gear on gear off in and out of a pool or shallow water, basic safety skills to regain your dislodged regulator and/or mask and/or fin after breaking a strap, what is buoyancy and trim. How to prepare and obtain perfect buoyancy and trim. Teaching the in water basics repetitively, in conjunction with pre and/or after dive session classroom sessions to gain an understanding of Boyles Law, Archimedes Theory, the law of thirds, safety stops, etc to understand the practical application of knowledge through repetition 2. Have a minimum of 10 mixed OW dives ie shore dives, boat dives and jump water entry from a jetty or similar elevated platform at depths to say 20m max with 3 mins/5m safety stops (2-3 days) 3. Nitrox or EAN theoretical and practical training in the benefits of mixed gas diving with a minimum 15 dives (3-5 days) to 30m with the 3 min/5m safety stops, and 4. Diver Rescue & Navigation including classroom theory (CPR & 1st Responder training) and repetitive in-water practical scenarios including navigation and SMB deployment which could be red/orange for emergency and green/yellow for diver safety stop and boat rendezvous. Either or can be agreed with the boat skipper, DM and divers in the pre dive meeting and checklist. A minimum of 10-15 variable depth and location depths should apply along with CPR and First Aid Certification for a (revised) full OW accreditation. Having this certification has enabled me to help one injured diver, nothing of concern, just a puncture wound below the knee with bleeding and pain, but an effective minor rescue that has given me greater awareness, confidence and a calm reactive mindset during every dive. My dive buddies are happy knowing there’s at least one Rescue diver in our dive group. I can feel the naysayer prepping their negative responses already, but I ask this question, “Would you prefer to help an injured or distressed diver back to safety or just hover in hope that someone else steps up?” I can personally assure you that a thank you and a smile from an injured diver is priceless. Having full OW- Rescue & Navigation Accreditation is worth the investment and time in gaining the underwater and classroom experience that gives an OW Diver confidence towards the practical application of knowledge. After all, a 5-dive OW certificate might be a quick buck for a dive operator but how confident do you and/or your dive buddy feel at your next shore or boat dive, after the reality of rushed training and a handful of dives make you feel…Overwhelmed combined with self-doubt are two factors that spring to mind. Been there, and felt like that and with hindsight, I would have welcomed and no doubt enjoyed an extended OW training program as proposed. Looking forward to spending more bottom time with everyone again soon. Enjoy!🤿😀
James, good video with a lot of valuable content. Sorry I’m six months late to watch this, life gets busy. Most of the economics are pretty accurate and certainly you have made a solid point that people need to know their worth and charge for it. You also make a valid, and well proven, point cost equates to quality…most of the time. At the end of the day, it is each individual’s decision - what kind of customer do you want and what kind of customer do you want to be. That decision does have a ripple effect on the rest of the industry. A marketing slogan I stole from Shoei (helmet manufacture) “if you have a $99 head, buy a $99 helmet”. I would like to know where you got your “agency” data? You grouped 200+ agencies into one set of initial and annual dollar figures, that’s the bit that is not accurate. At least from my perspective. Keep putting out the great videos, I enjoy watching them!
It's also interesting how the prices differs between different countries. I just made my OWD in the Philippines for around 300€ I was the only student and it was a very good instructor (a Korean) And it wasn't the cheapest course in this region. I'm wondering how they payed the equipment
Passed my advanced open water a couple days ago, while in Jamaica. I'll stick to my nursing career, maybe instruct in retirement. But the slave year you must do as an assistant, to the, instructor is not something I'd do.
I think the catch 22 for the basic training series (OW ->Rescue) is that it's hard to tell quality from norm from trash as someone entering the sport and it's hard to tell how much quality from norm really matters. If an open water course costs $300 more than the standard, for example, how can someone new tell that it's worth $300 more? Furthermore, is the higher quality worth the cost? This is like cattle boat dive companies. I can dive with one of the Miami cattle boat companies for $158 (2 tank, shallow water, with BCD and reg rental with group guide). I can drive down to Key Largo and the McDonalds of diving (the one you had a bad drift dive experience with), get the same deal for $129, except have more options on locations since they have more boats. Is Miami cattle car worth $30 more than Key Largo cattle company? Now once people start getting more towards the tec side from the basic open water side, quality becomes a much higher consideration in my mind.
I was an instructor for 15 years and am now 40 years as a certified diver. Yeah, this sport is expensive. It is an equipment intensive sport, and you don't want to go cheap as your life depends on it. You need proper training as well for the type(s) of diving you want to do. And when you decide to go to the professional ranks it's going to cost. And if you are like me you add in your other expensive hobby, photography, and then were are talking serious investment. Diving is about having a passion to be underwater and being in nature. So in order to participate on a regular basis you're going to be spending money. But it can all be worth it. As the joke goes, "How do you make a million dollars in the dive industry, invest two million." As I said, it is worth it to me. I don't have to have the most expensive equipment (dive gear or camera gear), but I want solid reliable equipment that is going to last for a while of use. So sometimes you spend more than you want to, but the return over time is worth it.
Diving agencies are just pyramid schemes. The only people who make money are the people who sit in the agency headquarters demanding every December for membership fees or hard sell some stupid specialty courses. I've worked in the industry as diving technician which i found really satisfying but sadly the money isn't great especially these days. but its a tough life as a instructor trying to make a living. Instructing really suits people in their 50s who have been luckily enough to retire early and want to live abroad and earn a bit of beer money and live on the beach. a popular saying i hear alot is "if you want to earn small fortune in diving start with a big fortune".
I skydive (wingsuit), Paraglide, mountain climb, scuba dive, whitewater kayak, and ski (snow & water), also play tennis. You are correct, tennis is cheaper even with 5 rackets and private club membership.
My personal opinion is recreational budget training has been the biggest issue with the industry. Weed out terrible instructors, the. Dryer instructors provide a better base to all future training and at minimum proper weight and trim (rant). That’s worth both charging more for and paying more for. Price doesn’t always convert easily to value. I wish more of my fellow divers looked at dove training as a chance to improve their skills, and IF you qualify you just happen to get a c-card, but that’s not the end goal. Growth is why we should train. If you’re not ready pay for more training, or go home and dive more, and come back later. Shops that have hidden costs like it’s a cellphone plan need pack sand. I just had a conversation with my tec instructor about his fees he has to pay, and it was pretty outrageous. He deserves to get paid well for his knowledge, cover expenses, and heaven forbid make a profit.
You talk about volume turnover of instructors but not volume or economics of students. That would be interesting; your way vs. group instruction...which, dare I say, is the way most of us learned. I've DM'd for a well established (30 years) shop in the Boston area for 5 years ...and Im the new guy. Most of our instructors are 10 and 20 year vets. We certify a LOT of divers but there is no way we could do that by turning over instructors all the time. That would create chaos. Im not aware of any other shop in the area that does that either.
I don't think cheap/expensive is a relative term (unless you were born into immense wealth and have no idea about the value of money). While $4k might be chump change for Jeff, I don't think he'd call $4k kit cheap.
According to PADI Web site, they issue about one million certifications a year. They also say there are roughly 165,000 dive professionals. That is roughly 6 certifications a year per dive professional. Do the math, most instructors do not make fees, gear costs and other costs, let alone make a wage.
Our 3 most senior instructors have a combined teaching experience of about 100 years, I guess that's good. Our team probably averages 8-10 years but we are in need of younger folks of which some are in training. Funny the oldest instructors seem to do the most training.
Totally like your approach re training and pricing. Not to push the prices down !!! TOP !!! Anyhow - Why does all the customers want to pay less and get cheap prices, but receive high quality? this is not in a balanced relation. But its a big problem in this industry. dive equipment costs a lot of money, and instructors and guides, required such a high quality eduction which costs a lot of money too, but dive centers does not want to pay much salary, and as instructor one has to have all the equipment themself, which is fair enough, but no fair salaries are paid in the diving industry, although as an instructor one has to take full responsibility, has to have a good dive insurance, and take care of human lives to the highest extend and provide safety, but its not reflected in the salary nor the diving fees. This industry needs to be cleaned up in relation to pricing !!! for the service we all provide as Instructor. I mean even to become better qualified as an instructor it does cost a lot of money. It's not easy to live a normal decent life on diving industry jobs.
I recently did a refresher and then did fun dives. They had three instructors in these diving centres. They were excellent. They had a lot of experience and also had a charming way of correcting all fund divers and telling them what they could do better and how. What I miss, however, as in every other dive centre. They don't have a public name, they don't exist. They are not presented on the website with their experience. Their competences have zero value. It doesn't matter at all. I don't know of any other job where competence is not honoured. I have to mention that this was in a tourist destination. Why not advertise with experienced instructors? Then you might not have to do all the price dumping.
I’ve been diving since 1986. In the last couple of decades, dive operators have become either so poor or so risk-averse that they’re more likely to cancel a dive than not. I’ve had three “dive vacations” where I never got in the water. Who wants a hobby like that?
I totally agree. It's true; these "cheap-and-fast McDive" centers and instructors (I didn't invent this term, but I love it!) drive prices down. But it's in us to offer the services we believe customers deserve and need. Going above and beyond is not just a market differentiator for our offer but also a necessity due to the nature of our sport.
Why are people complaining of the price? This is life-saving equipment we are talking about here. Besides that. it lasts many years when taken care of.
Very similar to the photography industry...many people are way under charging their packages and wondering why they are struggling financially and also burning out.
You should talk about how a lot of dive shops will not rent tanks and weights to properly certified divers without them paying for the dm to lead you. Dive shops over regulate padi & ssi certification to scam the divers out of money they don't want to spend & just want to do their own thing without the pricy dm to lead them
You are not wrong, but one thing you haven’t thought trough, is that the certifying agencies prefer the recurring fees over the newer instructors. The logic behind it is there is barely any cost to keep them as opposed to certifying new instructors. The logic behind recurring fees, is to get money for not much work. When you certify new instructors, the whole company structure is used. There is a IE that needs to travel, stay in hotels, eat, and entertain. It also involves the complete corporate infrastructure and other employees. Something a recurring fee does not use much. so the reality is, the recurring fee has a much higher net value or profit.
I’m $5000 in debt as a recreational diver and I still need a $2000 dry suit before I can continue. Haven’t dived since I decided to prioritize my finances and pay off the debt it’s been 6 months…
A refreshing attitude. The results of the 'race to the bottom' are to be seen everywhere and you can almost feel the holes in the swiss cheese jostling to line up.
As someone who spends time in places that are either air raided or have the potential to be, I don't appreciate the siren you had as part of the into audio. Please take that into account, otherwise I like the channel
Right on point! I am retired from a global company with technical products. We NEVER sold on price! We sold on quality and support. I used to tell the distributors I was training, that if they went into a pitch meeting with nothing but price, they've already lost. Not that price is unimportant, but if that's all you have to beat the competition, you are in big trouble. I want to have customers who buy because they know they are getting top tier products, and I will do everything in my power to help them be successful.
There are 2 problems here. First and foremost it is not that you are to expensive people just want everything for free these days and 2, I do think the sport is expensive and made that way intentionally like you demonstrated on the white board.
