Montreal REM | Demystified 

The new Champlain bridge is pretty interesting too

What about it? It's nice for sure but I don't find it particularly unique?

I agree! It's a great project!

@@RMTransit I don't know how unique is the curve on the bridge. Although yeah, in terms of design, cable-stayed is the new trend, so I see where you're coming from (the provincial government talks about replacing the old Île d'Orléans suspension bridge in Quebec City by another cable-stayed bridge. And, there are 2 more cable-stayed bridges on the Turcot Interchange zone).

Hail to collective thinking .

Indeed, with an automated system you can change things like service frequency with a few clicks of a mouse.

@@RMTransit I want to push back a bit. Yes you can modify frequency very easily, but adding a new branch is very problematic. Initially the system will run 24 trains an hour. Of these 12 will go to DM, and 6 each to the other two lines. If a 4th branch is added to Laval or to the east, this will cut frequency to all the other segments. a separate unconnected line is ideal, but selling a line with a extra transfer is politically difficult

@@gelu88 Political interference partly explains why projects like these get delayed so much. Politicians should simply fund the projects and leave the construction and design to urban planners and transit specialists. That’s my two cents. (-:

Faiz Imam hence why CDPQ insists on management and ownership of the project from planning to operation. And probably the most important reason why REM is able to get off the ground so quickly compared to Crosstown, Blue Ligne Extension, Ontario Line, etc.

@@gelu88 I don't think an extra branch needs to directly feed into the line like the current system; rather they could feasibly build an adjacent connecting Laval Line that is REM style and even branded that Runs as its own system!

Thanks so much! I'd say to a large degree it was about getting comfortable with using external graphics and photos. I've always gotten a bit antsy about it since my channel is monetized and so I have to consider licensing and copyright but I think I've been able to navigate it in an acceptable way.

Couldn't agree more

Ontario Line is subway, REM is LRT like ECLRT in Toronto.

@@Toronto-ye5kh Did you watch the video? Even just the first 30 seconds of it?

LOL

@@RMTransit Even the official website states is an LRT..... Way to know their transit system.

the connection will be a bus only as of now, which only comes every half hour, that 209 sucks as a shuttle just to the airport. The Via Rail shuttle bus is the only real option.

Eventually I'm sure a proper rail connection will be built out

@@RMTransit Eventueally, yes. But such a connection would not really bring any additional overall revenues to the REM operator (CDPQ), which will get a subsidy by passenger/km, plus the fares paid. The airport (Feds?), Via Rail and the old suburban rail line (to Hudson) would benefit the most. That's where the financing should come from?

RMTransit if they wanted an actual connection with Dorval they should have used the CN line to Dorval. Of course since the privatization it is near impossible, but ideally that is what should be done. Then comes the fact that the REM isn’t about good transit, which becomes very clear when you realize that the construction in the tunnel isn’t taking into account VIA’s HFR (many other factors that I have mentioned in another comment as well, all boiling down to la Caisse wanting to develop a bunch of land). Meaning that VIA will have to have to back out of Montreal station to go from QC to Windsor. If they can’t even get that right, I really doubt that they will connect with EXO Dorval/ VIA Dorval.

​@@alexstuart1849 I don't think VIA has to back out as they seem to be running their trains bidirectional with locomotives on both ends. Also, the CN line that VIA rails runs on is south of a pair of CP rail that EXO runs on, so a line from Gare Central would have cross over the CP lines that come from Lucien L'allier. There is also an abundance of freight traffic along the CP and CN line that would conflict with REM schedules.

Awesome to hear! I'm jealous haha

Well, yeah to a degree. The Canada Line in Vancouver represents the extreme of this thinking. It was underbuilt and while it's ok now it will run out of capacity in the not so distant future. Fortunately I think the REM really gets the value engineering right, leading to both a cost effective project and room for long term growth.

@@RMTransit I've never heard someone say "The REM is cheap because it has a low capacity" it's cheap because it uses existing rails, piggy backed on other infrastructure projects and went to neighborhoods where it could run above ground more easily. That doesn't mean they went for low cost the whole way, more that expenses were rational. As an example the platform doors seem like they're a safety thing, but in Montreal they're what allow the stations to have climate control. That's a big selling point over existing services. It costs more, but it's a well reasoned choice.

Oh yeah, because it is cheaper to spend 5.9B to rip up the most advanced rail line in canada (25000V AC, bilevel trains, hybrid locos) (instead of adding more trains) to permanently ruin the VIA HFR network and putting thousands pf people out on the roads for at least 2 years. Those people are never gonna switch back to the train because they will be cramped like in a metro for 40 minutes. This is forgetting the carbon cost of all the concrete, they are going to elevate the line on concrete practically everywhere, even on the old ROWs. And the fact that they are ordering the “trains” from india, talk about a green project. The Champlain bridge is already falling apart due to corrosion, and the prehistoric 1500V DC of the REM will only make this worse (The rails are the ground to the circuit). Point is, we really did not have to ruin the DM line for this. The PQ’s grand déblocage was a much better plan: tram/light rail from downtown to airport and the south shore, many more busses to everywhere, a renovation of the Mont Royal tunnel (which is necessary) All the while keeping what exists. How can anyone say the REM is utilizing preexisting infrastructure while it is actively ruining it. It is not allowing actual trains on the line, and is going to mean the premature scrapping of hundreds of very expensive locos and rolling stock. Instead of paying a few million for a tweaking of the existing network, you are spending a few billion on a transit system that will not work (light rail on ice 10 metres up!) and nobody on board in case of an emergency. I was hoping that Covid would put and end to this insane project, but sadly the government that be decided otherwise. Because as most people living in QC know, everything built in MTL is a product of the construction Mafia, and this is not a transit system, it is in fact a way for La Caisse to develop its land. Light rail is for short distances. Period. The Deux Montagnes line shouldn’t be touched past the MR tunnel.

RMTransit Do you live in MTL? Because if you do, this video is simply appalling, and you did not do your subscribers any favors. I am not trying to be a dick, but this project is extremely expensive, bad for VIA, bad for the Environment and especially bad for the Users. Denigrating the DM line really was not cool, its users actually love it btw, and most are angry about the REM, they were actually trying to stop its construction, but sadly were not french enough.

RMTransit Oh and btw, the government agency BAPE (Bureau d’Audiences Publiques sur l’Environnement) never gave the green light on the project because of all the reasons I mentioned but also because did I mention, it is EXTREMELY bad for the environment!!!

Oh it definitely will be! I think it's a great model for future Regional Metros!

Honolulu is getting something like this

Because the US is crippled by corruption and graft. Things aren't rosy over here (the mafia had both hands in our construction industry and our two main political parties as of around ten years ago), but we're nowhere near the level of crony out of control capitalism you guys have going.

Yes re Honolulu but the scale is much much smaller

Paname514 Paris’ transit is pretty incredible.

I cry. BART in the San Francisco Bay Area just opened their 10 mile 2 station extension to Silicon Valley mostly at grade or in a trench after 20 years (or more) since it was proposed. And their 6 mile 4 station extension under Downtown San Jose will take another 10 years. California efficiency folks.

Thanks Matthew

He already did a video on crossrail in London,UK

Yes that's the plan

Yeah that's likely true

Actually it's the other way around!

You are totally right. REM stations are set up to handle a maximum of 6 cars train sets. They hope to handle the increase of ridership by increasing frequencies. It makes sense to me as it helped to keep costs down. If in 30 years, the REM is at full capacity, we should then make additional REM lines to pick up some of the slack (like converting the Montreal - Hudson train to REM etc)

@@erictremblay4940 Problem is, full capacity will most probably be reached much quicker than 30 years. And there's not a lot of space for increasing frequencies, especially at rush hour, with trains coming in the main branch every other minute. That's REM's bottleneck and main flaw.

It's possible yes!

That'd be awesome

Haha, I know! I already had a sequence of Demystified videos planned and hence I am just working my way through!

@@RMTransit good to hear. I always look forward to your updates. I'm excited for my next trip to Montreal now because of this. I've seen the elevated structures, but never knew what it was for!

To be fair, Crossrail is a far more complicated project than REM.

@@vistarox I know your comment is old, but Crossrail's management was... dodgy, to put it mildly. It was constantly under the eyes of the Department for Transport, who (at the time) were more interested in meeting milestones and targets rather than focusing on issues that were cropping up. It's also been used as a political tool several times, which absolutely didn't help. Whilst Crossrail might open sometime in 2202 (maybe, probably with some core stations missing), it could have opened years ago had certain people kept their noses out.

Yes it is Ottawa

Yep!

I'm going to do a more in-depth comparison video, stay tuned.

Even stations no explicitly designed for extension can be extended, as mentioned most of the stations which were on the DM line fall under that case. I concur with your second point.

@@RMTransit The Edouard-Montpetit one would be extremely difficult to extend, as would all the underground stations of the downtown section (maybe Bonaventure even more considering its location in Montreal Central train station). Nothing is impossible, but it would be basically the same as extending underground subway stations...

Yes but just use Selective door operations?

@@RMTransit Yes, that's technically feasible indeed. But the problem is that the busiest stations will be the underground ones on the main branch (Édouard-Montpetit, McGill, and Bonaventure), so that would severely limit selective door operation's potential as a replacement for platform extension. This whole issue is my main disappointment with this project... and the reason why new branches are unlikely (in their current projected forms). But I do hope we can use the REM to extend Montreal's transit system in the future... we'll only have to consider new North-South branches going downtown

I am not worried about the long term capacity, the trains are pretty big and they can be expanded

Vous travaillez à Systra, Alstom?

À l'époque oui pour Systra mais plus maintenant. Jamais avec Alstom

That’s not going to fly on the Lower Montauk, not with having to maintain the freight connections. It would have to be a rapid DMU. I can see the MTA buying FLIRT class trains for the project, but this? Yeah, no.

If it's not grade segregated then what's the point of having a light rail?

Thanns

Google stories about it and you'll see lots! This channel is really about the positives of public transit :)!

Our biggest complaint (I'm a Montrealer) is that the REM is a private project done by the Caisse de dépôt, and they force all other transit systems to connect to the REM. For example, the South Shore had frequent bus lines going from two terminals in Brossard to downtown. Now, those frequent bus lines will be removed, and instead of sending regular bus lines to the two bus terminals, they will go to REM stations. The Caisse de dépôt is using the REM as a showcase to sell the system elsewhere.

REM isn't a private project, it's funded using Government funds and funds from public workers pensions for use by the Public. Forcing buses to connect to it is logical as a big part of the goal is to reduce bus congestion.

I'll consider it!

It'll be added eventually

Could always be added!

Probably the lack of tunnels they've had to bore has helped reduce cost.

Not nearly as much tunneling and interplay with existing networks, and also larger stations and parking infra in Sydney.

@@RMTransit Yes, REM has indeed smaller stations. (Which can handle trains of no more than 6 cars). In the future, they will handle the increase of ridership by adding frequencies, then also by going from 3 to 6 cars train sets. (simillar to an automated subway)

Cost is being massively underestimated to make it palatable to the public. Look back at the history of large public engineering projects in the province of Quebec and you'll see massive differences between the announced cost and the final tally, often multiple times more expensive. As a Montrealer I am looking forward to the completion of this project, we need it badly! But nobody here believes the announced cost or completion dates.

Well let's hope you're pleasantly surprised.

The integration is the station at Cote-De-Liese being the end of the Repentigny-Mascouche line which will bring people downtown faster then the old Mascouche line on that part did due to the REM's higher speed, and a connection to the Saint-Jerome line at Canora that will also bring people downtown faster then remaining on the Saint-Jerome line all the way downtown. This is on top of doubling the old Deux- Montangue line's capacity by replacing it. How it's doubling hourly capacity for the former heavy rail line that it's replacing stems from frequency because the old line had a train with 1900 capacity that had 9 departures between 6 am and 9am while this will have a train pair with 780 capacity having 54 departures in that same timeframe. This gives it a maximum capacity 146% higher then the heavy rail line it's replacing during rushhour, with the line having 2 way service on top of that and, while reduced, also having off peak service that the old heavy rail line did not.

@@ZontarDow Interval is indeed the key here. You are clearly a local (or at least intimately familiar with the system). Canada isn’t so bad when it comes to rail (although it could do better). 😊 This new system is clearly a step in the right direction. I’m just a tad sceptic to automatic "suburban rail". But we shouldn’t take our sorrows beforehand, or however it’s said.😄

@@cieludbjrg4706 yes I'm a local, when I go downtown this new network will save me time and money over driving. My one issue is that the second line connecting the north east to downtown has been cancelled

It's planned!

Will consider it, Hart is neat

Hart is neat but so many problems and construction delays

I believe there is a push to connect Côte-Vertu station with Bois-Franc REM station too, more so due to the fact that additional metro tunnels were constructed beyond Côte-Vertu station which significantly reduces the length of new tunnels required to reach Bois-France REM.

@@abdulkareemh That connection is also long overdue since Bois Franc should have been the Metro terminus instead of Cote Vertu

The use of the Mt. Royal tunnel was planned for the connection to Quebec City not Toronto and Ottawa

Dorval connection is already in the works. Just need to sort out funding between QC and Ottawa.

They could be sold to NJ Transit I assume

HELLO!! If you are actually in Baltimore like I am, you can reach out to the MDOT MTA Central Maryland Regional Transit Plan project team and encourage them to analyze light metro technology for the North-South transit corridor currently under study as well as future lines that might get built.

@@jayell1761I’m in Frederick, I probably still can then right?

@@CABOOSEBOB Yes, you can.

Yep! One of the few things I can’t say properly in French haha

@@RMTransit :^> Poor Patrick Roi (Habs goalie) - no one outside la belle province could say his name: Rr-wa!

I'm not worried, once vaccines are around we will be on the way back. And regional transportation is always critical.

I don't have many frankly. You could get into the governance structure, but other news agencies have discussed that to death.

@@RMTransit ok thanks for posting , and I really love this new series. Keep up the great work!

Unfortunately nothing is planned

Almost entirely 2 tracks

Montréal is French-speaking, there aren’t French versions of acronyms in Toronto either

80m which would be a 4 four car (two sets of paired car) train during peak hours, only running 1 paired car off peak which is 38m long

The west island get no love either. They didn't extend it into Vaudreuil, one of the fastest growing communities in the country, and the last stop is in the middle of nowhere....

only an idiot would turn this project into a political nightmare dream