Hello! This is, by a wide margin, the longest video I’ve made. It took over a month to get done, with more than a few late nights involved. Pragmatically speaking, I can’t really justify this sort of slow, long project much at the moment - but if you want to help change this, likes, shares, and especially Patreon sign-ups are very much appreciated! Here’s a link: www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage
Oscar Isaac's back must have been so sore from carrying the show. I thought the first episode was great and as a lover of ancient Egyptian mythology and history, I was excited to watch it. But the more it went on, I just thought the show was meh. And the climax was so underwhelming and anticlimactic.
Moon Knight is an anomaly. I didn't know a show could be so different from the rest of the MCU and so exactly the same as the rest of the MCU at the same time. It's uncanny.
Hahaha, this. I watched it thinking "This feels different, I'm really enjoying in" and once I was done with it was like "I'd be fine if we have a break in the MCU now".
Same with Wandavision for me. Great unique cool premise in the beginning that is different from Mcu formula but the last 2 or 3 episodes goes full marvel abandoning everything that made the show so good and unique
anybody who says that the moonknight costumes suck is just wrong. having the traditional suit being made from long strips of linen like how a mummy would be wrapped in was such a wonderful creative choice. and stevens more modern suit was a really nice contrast to that with a logical reason for it to look the way it did. both look and move incredibly
The only thing that put people off was the fact that it was always CGI I feel. The suit would have looked absolutely insane if they'd built it practically
As the child of an Egyptologist (Rest in Peace, Mom) I had fun with the mystical side of the show, and as someone who has struggled with mental health for a long time a lot of this show hit hard. The moment that sold me that Oscar Isaac is a brilliant actor was his breakdown in the asylum. I'm very familiar with that exact situation and I was completely convinced of Mark's psychic break
I started the show knowing absolutely nothing about DID. After I finished it, I was so invested that I heavily researched about it. I found a lot of content creators with DID and learned more and more about it. To me, Moon Knight was a catalyst to learn about something so far away from me that I honestly would probably never learn otherwise. And that's a win. That's already more than 99% of the shows I watch.
@@adammyers7383 I watched a lot! There were two that I mainly stuck with, but I believe one of them deleted the channel, because I can't find it in my subscriptions or searching for it directly. The other one is braiDIDbunch. Excelent content.
@@sinjinreed2091 I think you just didn't get the point. As far as I known the consensus in the DID community is that Split is the WORSE representation and Moon Knight is the BEST. So at the very least, it's safe to say those projects didn't do the same thing at all.
@@leonardocerqueiradias6168 it perpetuated the same myths and stereotypes that _Split_ did, with the only difference being it centered around a sympathetic hero rather than a sympathetic villain. I’ve studied DID, and I’ve known people with DID. I wasn’t impressed.
As a secular Jewish (or more accurately, atheist) whose mother died when I was 20, that scene outside the Shiva was really powerful. It's pretty challenging to depict a Jewish character without making them religious or wear a Star of David necklace or having them say "happy Hanukkah" or flat out declaring "I'm just a nice Jewish guy" like they basically did with Barry Allen on Justice League, and a Shiva is really good way to do it because it transcends religion, it's cultural. And when he throws down the kipa, thus rejecting religion, I felt really seen.
Okay but they did just slap a star of David necklace on Marc and had a very niche jewish cultural reference and that was it. From how important Marc's jewish identity was to him in the comics my frustration was a result of how little it mattered or affected him in this MCU adaptation. No mention of how his father was an important Jewish figure in the community, no mention of how Marc's violent nature was a direct affront to his fathers pacifistic teachings as a teen rebelling against their parents, no mention of the very idea of a Jewish man becoming a slave to an Egyptian God. We get a star of David Easter egg and 2 minutes of Shiva in the penultimate episode. Just felt frustrating with how much unnecessary content got shoved in instead.
This thread is a good example I think of the reminder that different people experience the same things in so many different ways. Every individual has their own unique mind and history and points of reference and processes and perceives things differently from the next. I am Jewish too. I grew up secular/atheist-ish, and only as a young adult through my own personal life experiences became more "religious" though I put that in brackets because the usual definition doesn't feel to me like it fits that well. I have my views of Judaism and of the world, but I would venture that even fellow Jews who ascribe generally to the same denomination, and the same flavour within that denomination, and even those who live in the same community and have gone to years to the same synagogue, and even those I have extra in common with, and even those I am close friends with... almost ALL seem to have very different views and beliefs. Sure, there is also common ground, but it's amazing how different each person's understanding and views on things are. As for my take on Moon Knight... setting my thoughts on how Judaism is handled aside, I simply found it pretty interesting and enjoyable to watch. As for how I think it handled and depicted Judaism... I think it really is profoundly offensive. I'm genuinely not upset about it at all, to be clear. I'm just saying from a non-emotional intellectual view at it, I think it's fairly absurd how offensive it is. Normally superhero movies so utterly downplay any character's Jewishness to the point that most of the audience probably doesn't even notice. The characters are normally only culturally Jewish, and in a quite casual way, with barely any mention of it - maybe some tiny symbol snuck into 1 or 2 scenes at most. Here with Moon Knight though they take the time to show us that not only is he Jewish, there's a religious component - in fact his father is actually a Rabbi. Now if there were scores of healthy, positive, loving depictions of religious Judaism in media, then no big deal at all... but in this case it's a near total vacuum. This is an extremely rare, if not singular depiction of religious Judaism in a superhero story (not to mention anywhere in pop culture really), and... his Rabbi father is depicted as a very crappy person, and Marc HATES his father and his Judaism so much so that he takes his only Jewish piece of clothing, throws it down intensely on the road, and walk away from not just his father... but from Judaism altogether... And who does he embrace instead... wait for it... ... Egyptian polytheism. The very foundation of Judaism is stated in the first two of the 10 Commandments: "I am the Infinite, your God who brought you out of Egypt, out of slavery. Have no other gods before Me." There's finally a Jewish hero that has anything to do with Judaism as a religion, and... he hates his connection to Judaism, throws it in the dirt, and embraces Egyptian gods to get his powers. I'm not sure I could paint a picture of an equivalent thing in Christianity, but it would have to start by being in a context where Christians comprise only less that 0.2% of humanity, and despite being this tiny minority are subject to a disproportionate amount of hateful attention. Every day in the real world there would have to be huge numbers of people hating them for being Christian, and actively wanting to murder them, often making attempts, and often succeeding. On top of this there would have to constantly be endless conspiracy theories that just add fuel to people's mistrust and hatred towards you. And then you'd have to have almost no depictions ever of Christianity in any religious sense in the public eye, except the occasional really odd and generally unpleasant depiction of you as extremist wierdos. Then finally there's going to be a mainstream superhero who has more than a passing connection with Christianity in a religious way... but the character HATES their connection to Christianity, their father is a Priest and seems to be an awful father (or at best it's very messy), and the hero takes a cross, throws it in the mud, and then embraces the devil - not an evil force but a complex but more neutral character - as the source of their superpowers. It's crazy. Imagine the outcry if the same treatment was done with Ms Marvel as a Muslim.
As another jew, I felt a different way about it. I think judaism is so often associated with death and suffering, although seeing my culture represented made me happy, I also wished that we got to see some more of the joyous aspects of Jewish culture (Although I don’t know how that would fit into the tone of the show)
@@myrrhbear i think i know the root of your problem. While MK is known as a jewish these, he wasn't created as one. The writer gave him the name Marc spector because of his friend, who was a jew. But he didn't know that. So here we have a character, with a origin rooted in egipt, that wasn't a jew, but later was turned into one. MK is basically a accident in representation. Now ben Grimm( the thing) that's a character that is proud to be a jew
The weirdest accusations towards this show that I have seen is that Layla is the real main character with Steven/Marc having only a minor role. And I've seen that one a lot.
She's not the main character by a long shot, even though the character was strong enough to carry her own show, but how cool would it have been to explore the Steven/Marc dynamic from her perspective too? I like the show we got but I also like the sound of that show too.
32:39 (Basically the "there's a sense that Layla feels more real, less performed" stuff) Hard agree. There's a moment of hers in Episode 4 that I literally never see talked about that just really WORKED for me (around 23:57, if anyone with Disney+ wants to go back). Basically, her character has just barely survived a harrowing and intense scuffle with some unknown monster, been almost hurled off a cliff when she tried to throw it off said cliff, and barely crawled back to relative safety. Normally, this is where a typical strong, gung-ho Marvel character would just show how "cool" and unphased they are by hopping to their feet to rush off and face the next encounter, but instead Layla at this moment just...breaks down for a bit. She sighs and screams in panic and relief, finally in a position where she can afford to process the terror of it all without the immediate threat of death. It really reminded me that she--at this time, at least--was just a NORMAL HUMAN in something as deadly as the MCU, and I can see most people reacting the same in that position. I don't know if that was all her performance, good direction, solid editing selection, or a culmination of all the above, but that vulnerability stuck with me as a perfect cap for that scene.
Honestly I’m glad you brought up the Egyptian perspective in this video, I’m not Egyptian myself but as a child I grew up in a highly populated middle eastern community and sentiments of being demonized and misrepresented in media tan incredibly high with the people there, especially after 9/11, so seeing a show that embraced the landscape and people authentically brought a smile to my face
as a system with DID, we found the show very enjoyable, and incredibly relatable, to the point of discomfort at times. they managed to handle DID fairly well given how its been portrayed in almost any other mainstream piece of media, and we felt like they did well with the dramatizations, a la the mirror scenes, or the dissociative effects. we're really, really hopeful we see more of them going forward, as our only complaint realistically lies with the idea of jake being portrayed as a more "evil" alter, given he only shows up to commit violence, but that can all be worked into the character and made less stereotypical when jake is given more than 30 seconds of screentime. we agree with you overall, and will be going back to watch some of your older moon knight stuff, its exciting to see someone talking about it a year later!
I agree that more detail on jake would help stay away from the "evil alter" trope. Personally i see Jake as the alter whose "job" is to just mindlessly instinctually protect their system. To turn off their thoughts and emotions and just do the job. Steven is for the normalicy and comfort with just a boring life. Marc the brains and honor of fighting the bad guys. Jake to beat up others with cold efficiency and protect them all. I think in the end scene it shows how thats being taken advantage of after marc and steven both learn more and gain opinions the god doesnt quite like.
I love Egyptology, my sibling has DID, this show was perfect to watch together! We can't wait for season 2. I agree that Jake needs more nuance in season 2. The 'bad' alter vs. one or more 'good' alters is a tired trope that does not seem based on reality - at least not according to my sibling's therapist and my own experience living with them. Hopefully Moon Knight will show the Hollywood people that good portrayals of DID are a great way to elevate a story so they will start to make more!
Honestly, this video just reaffirmed why I liked Moon Knight so much. It's not crazy comic accurate, but its positives FAR outweigh its negatives. You can tell there's so much love, effort, and care on all levels to make a unique and entertaining show in the superhero genre.
I really appreciate the ambiguity of it all. Even after a year I'm still questioning how much was real and how much wasn't, and that feels fitting in tone with the comics.
To me I think it was a okay starting point that can evolve into something more if they are willing to allow the darker aspects of the character to be shown on screen. Tap into his trauma, his violent nature and the morality that can differentiate the three personas from each other and other heroes. I honestly do want to see him cross over with other heroes and hopefully Thor one day.
For me, there's just no salvaging it. They completely misrepresented his DID and got his alters personalities all wrong. I mean, how do you come back from making Jake-who's supposed to be the nicest one of the system-a cold-blooded killer?
@@sinjinreed2091 Like the video suggests, Jake-as-the-nice-one is not some stable, eternal truth of Moon Knight. Vol. 8, #189. Jake to Truth: "You met Marc. Marc's disturbed as hell. Now imagine he took all the worst parts of himself and let them fuse into a living person." Vol. 8, #190. Jake to Marc: "Look, Steven is the wealthy benefactor, Khnoshu is our connection to the bigger picture, you're the voice of reason, and I deal with the grimy leftovers. You built us this way."
@@PillarofGarbage That’s from the Bemis run-widely recognized as _the_ worst Moon Knight run in the history of the character. That’s like making a _Punisher_ movie and basing it off his “Angel of Vengeance” arc.
@@sinjinreed2091 Still happened, though. People not liking the run doesn’t change the fact that - fairly recently - this is how the comics characterised Jake.
The juxtaposition of Marvel’s subtlety (or typical lack thereof) with the brief clip from Falcon and the Winter Soldier is *chef’s kiss*. I find the anger of people towards fictional media to be baffling, humorous, and quite sad. The Star Wars prequel trilogy, e.g., was intensely disappointing as someone who grew up with the original trilogy, but I never made death threats or wrote angry letters to the newspaper.
As a die-hard Moon Knight fan it's nice to hear such a nuanced and researched take on the show. I really enjoyed it despite it's differences and it's a great starting point for the character in the MCU and it's nice to see someone break everything down in a way that explains each point with some really valid reasoning.
As someone who hasn't read the comics, I absolutely loved it. I can understand that some comic fans might feel differently. For me, Mark/Steven's dynamic - them getting to know, and accept each other - was the highlight of the show. The episodes dealing with their past (and origin) was just beautiful, and I definitely shed more than one tear. I've heard some good feedback from people with DID. Even if it isn't perfect, it definitely has opened up a conversation about DID *with* people with DID. Talking with them, instead of about them.
The only major criticism I have seen from commenters, and friends, who have DID is the fear that Jake Lockley will end up being characterized as a "Serial Killer Alter" which has been a very harmful stereotype in media portrayals of DID for centuries. I have seen a headcanon floating around from many of them, and I really like it myself: Rather than being a flat "muder alter" Jake should be characterized as a man who actually believes in Khonshu's Justice, wholeheartedly. It would be a nice "have your cake and eat it too" of portraying a DID alter who regularly murders people in droves.
Oh yeah I remember seeing that too, definitely agree with it and your idea for it is a great one, would be a great difference between Marc and Steven against Jake’s viewpoints of Khonshu
Your take is basically what I want as well, it could bring a lot of depth to the system as a whole, depicting internal dilemma and plurality of morals between Marc, Steven and Jake. I also would really like to see an effect of his "job". As it stands right now, aside from the image of a violent alter, Jake in the show seems to be the "scape goat" of the mind when it comes to the mindless brutality and violent justice of Konshu's ways, so it would be a great character point to see some sort of conflict in Jake's mental state as an individual, regarding his affairs and how he possibly bottle all up in self-destructive ways in favor of his beliefs, exploring maybe his remorses, fears, maybe addictions of some sort or some mental, psychological inbalances resulting from his brutal responsibilities.
I think it'll be interesting to see how Jake came about since Mark created Steven as an escape from his mum but Steven has fond memories of his mum. So maybe Steven created Jake to escape from those violent situations. I need to re-watch it and see who's in control before Jake appears. If he only comes out when Steven is in control it could give credence to the theory that Steven created him.
@@Ben-fk9ey I believe Jake mostly came out when Marc was in a particularly dangerous fight. My theory is that he was created during Marc's time in the military as someone who could better handle the type of things he had to do as a soldier. (I could be wrong, though)
MK being Latino could parallel Marc's dad being a refugee from the comics. If Marc's family fled the Guatemalan genocide or Cuba after the revolution (as did most Sephardic Jews) it could modernize and culturally contextualize his origin. Or both, I like to think Marc's mom was Guatemalan and dad was Cuban, as is Oscar Isaac irl ethnicity.
For me the show’s pacing is half and half, like you said it’s near perfect in the beginning, I actually think as a whole it’s all brilliantly paced until we get to the finale, then it rushes to the conclusion
The bumbling egyptologist was my favorite part of the show. It's refreshing to see something other than hyper competence in adults in Marvel (and other stuff) character growth and flaws shouldn't just be eradicated by 25. 🤷🏽♀️
Cinema Therapy actually made a really great video on DID and evaluates how well Moon Knight depicts DID, especially compared to more problematic representation in movies like Split.
I have DID, and yet DID representation is more subtle and compassionate in Moonknight, (they also had an entire season to develop Marc story), i don't get why being a murderer in Split is problematic, but not in Moonknight. Cinema Therapy litteraly said Jake operates with no conscience and can kill as violently and as much as he wants, like it is a detail, while it is a huge problem in Split. Same problem with their video about Warmonger in Black Panther, the man kills dozens of people, and they find him cool and he is "right". I like their other videos, follow them from the beginning, but sometimes you can see some bias.
One of my favorite parts of the show, after Oscar Isaac performance, was Layla. I loved all her interactions with Steven and Marc, I how her presence strengthened Moon Knight ties to its Egyptian themes, I loved how she got to kick ass as a superhero and I was impressed by May Calamawy’s performance, specially when she could also interpret Tawaret a seamless switch between personas when she was possessed. Really looking forward to Season 2 not only to see more of the titular character, but also to see Layla shine more
The final asylum scene IS in the wrong place. It was supposed to happen right as Marc and Steven were running through Osiris' gate back to life. Steven saying "We'd rather go save the world" then falling backwards was supposed to transition to them waking up in the tomb, mirroring when Marc fell backwards into the water. In the spot where the scene wound up was meant to be a confrontation scene between Marc, Steven, and their mother Wendy. The episode got re-edited last minute without telling anyone and that's why it's shorter.
I've read all of Moon Knight's comics to date and I loved this show even though I pretty much guessed every major plot point and even the Moon Knight power upgrades. The source material has never been a holy grail for the MCU but this adaptation did a great job at capturing the essence of the character and simultaneously making Moon Knight feel like a character that could exist in the MCU.
Capturing the essence of the characters without being slavishly devoted to the source material is where the MCU has always excellled and probably a big part why it is so long-lived.
@@Carabas72Excelled? Where? We have so many trash like Moon Knight, K'uk'ulkan, Kang, Adam Wardog (special). They are all ruined for money by people who never reads the comics.
I really loved moonknight, but honestly, if you ask me about plot points in the show, I won't be able to describe much. it's kinda like how I feel about the anime banana fish, I really loved it, but I couldn't ramble about any of the plot points cause they feel kind of unmemorable like a logical fever dream
As a system with osdd we have less amnesia than DID but there is enough for us to relate. This show felt so similar to the first year of us realizing we were a system. Discovering alters and not even being able to be aware of some who dont show themselves(like jake). After decades of bad "evil" alter media this was so refreshing
I have DID, yes it is a much more compassionate and positive representation of DID, but I don't get why people seems to completely evacuate the fact that at the end of the day, the character with a DID slaughter dozens of people, not as an avatar who's possessed by a vengeful god (that I could interpret as another alter), but as an alter who exists specifically to do the violent acts? Seems a little hypocritical to me.
I just saw your comparison to Russian Doll, and I love that! Russian Doll is one of my favorite shows of all time, and one of the reasons phase four is my favorite phase is because Marvel has finally gone quirky and weird, just like Russian Doll. Ms. Marvel is a lot like certain aspects of Russian Doll season 2, and WandaVision also has a brilliantly wacky premise that I absolutely love.
Honestly the best parts of phase 4 have been when they leaned into the mind bending or sometimes just outright wacky world of the comics - and I mean the times they do that with genuine heart, not just throwing in cameos for cheap laughs.
I think the issue with the “Are you and Egyptian superhero?” Bit is that it feels like Marvels just taking a megaphone an going “WE HAVE EGYPTIAN REPRESENTATION!!”. I think if they just made the line “are you a superhero?” And Laylas reaction to that being the realization of “holy **** I am a superhero”. It would come off more as a genuine character moment instead of pandering. It wouldn’t suddenly make her ethnicity a focus of the scene for no reason.
I personally liked how they cut away from large sections of the fight scenes, because otherwise it would have been too “fun”. I mean, don’t get me wrong, fun is good, but making the fights too glamorous and cool and all that would have just glorified the Moon Knight powers, which I feel would have undermined the story being told. That, and it just felt unique and interesting.
I loved the weirdness of Moon Knight as soon as I saw the meme and even more once I started reading about the character. The Moon Knight in the show is not that accurate to the comic, but it seems to carry the same soul. If Steven is a struggling academic wannabe, Mark has a stash house with egyptian artefacts and quite a lot of ill gotten money, Jake has now the limousine and so on. None of the character's oddities are gone, they are just shifted around and in the end a bit more cohesive and realistic. I think that the biggest issue with the MK series was that it was not enough.
The only issue I had with MoonKnight was with the finale episode. It just turned out to be a typical MCU third-act turn-off-your-brain episode that lacked the Unique and high-quality writing that made the first few episodes so fascinating. And the thing I hated most about it was that he literally defeated the villain off-screen, like, I don't know who decided that that would be a good idea. It was as if they ran out of time or didn't have the budget to shoot any more scenes so they thought "How about we just cut out the final hero/villain 1v1 and replace it with another Jake Lockley easter egg". The action scenes and special effects were quite cool tbf but overall that finale was just disappointing.
It’s interesting hearing how some people don’t like the last fight scene being offscreen, to me it was a refreshing take since we have seen so many of these and leaving it out just makes you wonder if it WAS jake and if so will he be the more protective of the three and if it wasn’t what actually happened. I feel like it is a great point to go back on in a future season and not so disappointed to look at in that sense. I hope this made sense 😅
@@VestajikI agree! I wasn't disappointed to miss it. When all of a sudden it skipped to the end, I was surprised, just like Marc and Steven were. I think that was the point. We got to the point in the fight where we aren't sure how the hero could possibly end up on top, it was kind of refreshing that the hero himself didn't know what happened. Instead of giving us the fight scene we were expecting, it gave us character grown and pushed even harder at all the clues being dropped about a third alter Marc and Steven don't know about yet. I thought it was brilliant but I can see why people disagree. Who knows, maybe when we learn more about Jake Lockley we'll get to see how that fight ended, but for now I like being in Marc/Steven's shoes, makes it more interesting. Sorry this reply is so long btw
I rewatched the show a few months ago and despite the first half being enjoyable cause I like Marc and Steven as characters + the mystery element surrounding who they are, as a whole it’s just “fine” to me and not my favorite thing in terms of the Marvel shows. However, episode 5 is genuinely one of the best things in the MCU imo. It’s so fascinating to get this far into a show and then have everything we know be flipped on it’s head, and as an audience genuinely not being able to know if what we just watched was “real”. A lot of this has to do with the creativity of portraying Marc’s memories and trauma + Oscar Issac’s amazing acting (I became a proper fan of his after the rewatch and I’m still mad he never got an Emmy nomination or any recognition after WandaVision opened the door for that possibility), and by the end seeing Marc and Steven working together was a highlight for me. Once I finished was when I realized just how much I was gonna miss seeing him portray these characters until they show up again (I will admit though that seeing him wear a kippah made me do a double take lol, haven’t read the comics yet so I had no idea the character was originally Jewish going in). Not sure if any of this is a popular opinion or not but I figured I’d share
This is an incredibly in depth and even handed overview, personally this show easily surpassed my expectations. It was probably impossible to get a perfect adaptation and I think the show given the context did about as good a job as they could’ve
I actually think this show is one of the better shows, overall I am having a bit of the prequald effect and am starting to like phase 4 a lot more than first time watching it
My knowledge of MK is only from the series itself and the repeated cutting of any action was beyond frustrating. But I enjoyed the characterization at least, since Oscar Isaac is talented as hell! However, as an Egyptian mythology nerd, I can’t say I didn’t feel my gears grind every time Ammit was characterized as being evil 😅
My relationship with this show is as complex as the debate around it. I'm an avid MCU fan and was looking forward to the next big MCU show...when I watched the first episode of Moon Knight for the first time I hated it. I thought it was unwatchable. I thought a slow burn was absolutely fine but I thought the show didn't do anything at all to hook me to the next episode, it was just boring. So I watched that first episode again, and again, and again, and again. After the first watch I couldn't stop re watching it, I got more engrossed in every watch. The rest of the show has it's faults but Overall I adore this show. It's just so unique in the good and the bad and I think I wouldn't have it any other way. This is my favourite MCU property and probably comic book media ever.
To elaborate a bit more: I know this show is deeply flawed and that's why I like it, because I think the flaws bring forth new ideas and mythology for example. It's like home cooking, yes it's not gourmet 5 star food but theres just something about the very specific combination of ingredients that grandma uses that is just unbeatable
As someone with DiD, our system felt really connected to the show and adored it instantly. After the mess that was Split bringing DiD into the mainstream media in a... less favorable way to put it lightly, seeing the care and respect the creators and Oscar Isaac put into representing the disorder was refreshing and made us felt scene. And lord did that moment of Steven saying "I thought I was the original" hit HARD as a system that had a moment like that happen when a host switch happened and no one realized until later, before we even realized we were a system and not the plethora of things we thought we were experiencing. This show means a lot to us as someone who experiences the same disorder portrayed but also as someone who as a child was fascinated with Egyptian mythos and history, it helped us connect full heartedly with Steven and Marc, and personally- we can't wait to see Jake and the next part for Moon Knight. I will say we were a little sad to see that not even a reference to Moon Knight was in the latest Thor movie as we felt that would have been a nice little touch and how Thor could have a really cool dynamic with Marc and Steven as well as Khonshu, I really hope we do get to see that in later entries of the MCU!
I have DID, and don't get why Split get so much hate depicting a DID system as violent, while Moonknight depicting a DID system as at least equally violent is not problematic. Yeah, it is compassionate, emphasize more on traumas and Marc/Steven story, they also have an entire season to unfold it unlike a movie, but at the end of the day, it can be seen as another "people with DID have a violent side".
Hell, take this sentiment and extrapolate it out through the entirety of Phase 4 for me. I think this has been my favorite Phase overall and its experimental nature, even the very rare moments that don't completely land, is the breath of fresh air the franchise needed.
Okay, so for me, the show, while not perfect, was one of the best things to come out of Marvel for a long time. This entirely based on its strength as a character study. I got invested in Steven and Marc in a way I haven't gotten invested in an MCU character since Iron Man. I was really excited for the show when it was announced, because I had read some of the Moon Knight comics years ago, specifically the Ellis run, and even brushed up on some of the earlier comics before the show aired. Since then I've read an even larger chunk of Moon Knight comics. What we got was quite different from what I was picturing, even knowing and accepting that the MCU essentially remixes the comics material it adapts, but I ultimately think it's for the best for many of the reasons you point out in the video. Moon Knight was always going to be different from his comics counterpart, all of the MCU characters are, and I'm glad that they used the opportunity to try to do justice to the character's depiction of DID and Egypt (and canonically establish him as Jewish even if they didn't feature it prominently). On another note, you're reading of Steven as childish is a little misguided. Oscar Isaac has said that the way he approached the character, he thought of him as being a bit on the autism spectrum. It'd be going a bit far to say that makes Steven (and therefore Marc as well) canonically autistic, but given that his behavior is rooted in that background, I think it's an aspect of the character that should be considered more carefully. Autistic adults constantly have to contend with being infantilized because of their neurodivergence and it's a bit unkind (in that light) to suggest that Steven needs to grow up in order to lose the aspects of his character that read as autistic. Besides, I think it's those very aspects that are his strength. It's the source of his honesty, his interest in Egyptology, and his friendliness, all of which not only help him and Marc in the story, but also make them stand out as a character. All this to say, it's an important part of who he is and not something that needs to change.
By childish, I wasn’t referring to his social difficulties or anything like that - more moments like his ‘my name’s Steven with a V’ nursery rhyme bit.
@@PillarofGarbage I think that playfulness is part of the deal though? Not saying you had any bad intentions or anything, just that it's an angle you might not have considered.
Totally agree with everything you said! Part of the reason I found it so easy to get invested in Steven is how refreshing he was compared to so many MCU characters. He's still smart, but showing someone goofy and awkward and friendly was such a breath of fresh air when so many marvel characters seem to be nothing but serious. In a way, it made him feel more real, more like an actual person struggling with a difficult situation rather than some kind of 'chosen one' who was always fated to be super powerful and impressive. Same with the autism part, I hope Steven keeps the core of his character in any future MK content
16:40 I said this before and I'll say it again. Not showing the best scenes is also an insanely good directorial choice to explain how frustrating and devastating DID is for the person suffering with it. Speaking from personal experience. I've been told stories about some of the stuff we've done and it sounds amazing, but it isn't something we ever saw or got to experience. We did get to enjoy the after-effects which is nice though
This was very well done and respectful. A time or two I found myself a little uncomfortable with what you were saying, only to have you come in to address exactly what I was worrying about. This well earned a like.
I like how different people in the comments that are from different circumstances come together. Moon Knight's pertinence to me is being mentally ill. I have major depressive disorder, GAD, mild psychosis, PTSD among others and Mark & Steven's constant relapse in their judgment lapses as well as their trauma all pointed to the same trauma I personally grew up dealing with. An extremely abusive mother. I remember seeing episode 1 and crying my eyes out to my partner. I told him I know all the fear and confusion Steven harbors not knowing exactly what's going on with his life, and I also understand how much he'd just prefer to have a life as normal as he possibly can. As the story progresses, I recognized familiarity in Marc's rage and tenacity, but I also understand his empathy and his selflessness. Episode 5, as probably most of us did, broke me. It was the first time I felt so vulnerable watching a show. It's like reliving memories. Moon Knight series ended up meaning so much to me, and this series will always have a special place in my heart.
I’ll give my perspective as a non comic fan: the show made me feel like a little kid again. Like that moment where he first reveals his moon shaped cape made me actually squeal, and the entire vibe of the show just reminded me of the adventure movies that I loved as a kid.
I'm a Jew who lives in Israel and I very much appreciate the effort you put in to acknowledge the opinions in the communities touched on by the show. I obviously can't speak for other Jews and much less so for the groups I'm not part of but I'd say you did good.
Thanks to Moon Knight, I became more interested in learning about DID and Egyptian mythology. Something that i learned about Egyptian mythology was that over the thousands of years of the culture, few parts remained consistent. Different pharoahs would change which deities were more important than others. Sometimes these would change with every pharaoh. Different cities would have different cults for some god, even during the same dynasties. Finding consistency in the pantheons is challenging, but what rarely changed were what symbols were most important. Who the chief god was changed over the years, but the sun was always part of the chief god. The sun, the moon, the Nile, and the desert were always more consistent in their reverance than any one god was.
It's weird people being upset about a lack of Jewish representation in a universe where religious views are largely absent. The only movies where it was referenced was in Avengers (When Cap tells Nat that there's only one god and he doesn't dress like Thor), and various things Ultron says in his debut movie. It's a secular series, and there's nothing wrong with that in it of itself. There are much more pressing problems with the MCU.
I've been a Moon Knight fan for 35 or 36 years. I really loved the show. The writing and production design, the acting was impeccable. I was so worried they wouldn't be able to show how different MK is from Batman. But as you pointed out, they did. I recently rewatched the show and found myself appreciating it on all new levels. That's what led me to your video. I really enjoyed listening to this. Top notch work. Thank you for this great time that came from listening to you.
I'm a member of a DID system. yes. im diagnosed. no i dont use tiktok. I've just stopped by to say that I very much enjoyed the approach to DID that the Moon Knight show took. I felt seen. It's so much more than just a weird thing for other people to deal with. It's very hard and strange for me too! there are days I wake up ready to go to an appointment and find out that it was three days ago and yes I did attend it. Sure, there are dramatizations in the show but I never found any of it offensive, and honestly liked that they made things like switching cinematic and emphasized without making fun of it. If they didn't, so many people would be confused. It humanized the alter before the host, which is such a wild thing for a media depiction to do. Yet it did it so well that it also showed that the host is no more significant than the alters. The host is just another alter really. It's interchangeable. I'm not personally a fan of the interpretation of people consciously creating an alter. That's never how it worked for me. The whole point is that it's subconscious. Moon Knight touches on this, but it by no means drags my opinion of the show down. Also, thank you for being so respectful to your fans who have DID! It's very uncommon for people to be polite or even remotely kind to people who admit to having the disorder these days. I greatly appreciate you for showing different systems opinions on the topic and showing that any source you use is not just one sole extreme claim that all people that share a certain quality passionately believe. Nuance is mysterious to people these days haha Thank you for the respect.
Also as a weird note about the show. I put it in here because the first comment was getting long so.. But since I love the show, a lot of my friends who some do know about my DID and others have directly said some terrible things about DID so I've simply not told them, I asked all of them about their opinions on the show. Almost all of them told me that they either watched it and thought it was bad because of the "offensive portrayal of DID" and bad CGI. And some who even knew I'm fully diagnosed and have been helping me deal with it even claimed that they knew better about DID and that just because I and many others say it's actually really good, doesn't mean it is. and it just factually is offensive. Blows my mind that some people seem to just have such a contrarian take on anything ever. I could ask them what about it is offensive and they'd either have no answer, or say "they treated DID as a superpower" which no the show was very clear that it wasn't. or they would say "It made DID a gimmick and wasn't at all accurate" If that's what a gimmick and thats what inaccuracy is to people who don't actually know much about the disorder, I wonder what hope do any people have of being seen and heard? anyway drab rant over enjoy your day/night everyone!
Such an incredible breakdown of MK! I can’t believe it’s been a year, but I do still think it’s a great show! I think they did an incredible job adapting him to be more modern, and like you said, representing cultures in a realistic way. Also, your research is so well done! I appreciate you taking the time to dig in to how important the story of Exodus is to the Jewish people. It shows that you didn’t just do a cursory glance.
Moon Knight was honestly ok, bolstered by Oscar Isaac's performance and everything involving Layla. Also, as a Jewish guy, the vague representation didn't really bother me (I'm not clamoring for Jewish superhero representation - we have all the early DC/Marvel writers for that). But the story really petered out by the end and, for a show billed as very dark, it never embraced that violence during the fights or character interactions. Definitely excited for the Ms. Marvel retrospective though.
I literally watched Moon Knight in my Psych 2 class for high school. It was a great experience and we gitbno homework on those day. I now have met a wonderful individual who has DID and they really loved this series kike I did. In terms of the Jewish and Egyptian representation, I honestly think the scene of Mark defacing a item with significantly to Judaism is just the Christian equivalent of when Lil Nas X dropped "Montero". It's just something that without context is triggering and shocking while that scene has so much that was deeper than the visceral response to it. I also kinda see it like how the main characters of Shadow And Bone was treated where the people watching want to see more positives with the culture being represented. Speaking of Netflix, when it comes to there Cleopatra series, it makes me think back to how glad I am to see an actual Egyptian superhero. That scene warmed my heart and as an west african girl reminded me when Black Panther introduced to Dora Milage. Anyway, I love this show and Mr. Night is best boy.
52:50 - I'm a crusty white guy and when that kid asked "Are you an Egyptian superhero?" and Layla replied "I am", I was totally thrilled by it - it was a brilliant moment, especially for anyone of Egyptian origin watching the show. I get it. I know the feeling of finding representation in media. Any neo-fascists spouting about it being "woke" can go to hell - the sooner the better.
I might not be Jew, American/Brit/Spanish descendent/Egyptian or whatever else, or even have DID, but i appreciate the different way the show decided to show everything I also didn't knew Moon Knight before the show, at max those funny panels from MoonKnight Core, but even still i loved everything depicted My line of thought might be too simple but i wanted a action show about a dude with different personalities using egyptian powers, and i got more than that honestly, it did bring some cool topics to discuss between me and my friends (like DID being treated as a disease by many, but the fact they have distinct personalities, likes and dislikes makes me think DID is more of a condition than a disease, and should not be treated as such) the focus on Egyptian mythos (of course by the comic lenses) giving me interest in looking it up (i was never that big of a fan of mummy movies and related egyptian stuff, but that changed) and even respect and appreciation for the sister religion that is the jewish religion (I'm christian, in the evangelic branch) who is a lot of the times treated in a bad light in the internet (I don't know why) Of course the series is not perfect, it didn't gave me absolute knowledge about the topics (barely any, but it did spark my interest in), but i appreciate the love and care put into the show, and absolute respect to the staff behind it all also sorry for the broken english, i'm still learning
Thanks for tha video. I thought it was a great with my only major complaint being tha villain. Somethin I really look forward to is tha expansion of god lore in tha second season along with his relationship with KonShu. Hopefully we see some long term goal from Moon Knight as well, and I’d be interested in seeing how his disability affects tha little aspects of his life as well. Also I really hope tha action takes a significant leap in quality. It wasn’t bad, and had some really good scenes, some even great, but after Daredevil, I think we can be afforded with more gripping choreography to accompany Jake’s arrival.
Hold on, how ISN'T Harrow one of the best MCU villains?? He's at least in the top 1/3. The MCU especially in earlier phases notoriously had a problem with villains being lazily motivated by crazy power hunger or had identical powers to the hero. Harrow had actually unique sympathetic motives and abilities.
59:51 - That's very true, they could only realistically take inspiration from maybe two specific runs. . . but what possessed them to think they should take from _Max Bemis' run,_ widely considered to be the worst run in the entire character's history? Especially considering that the previous runs from Warren Ellis and Jeff Lemire are considered the gold standard for the character? The problem wasn't that he faced a cosmic-level threat instead of a usual street-level threat, the problem _is_ that it got the character's personalities all wrong. So much so that they can't realistically fix them without liberal retcons. You can argue that the character was in flux, but ask any die-hard MK fan and they'll tell you that there is a set standard for Marc, Steven, and Jake that the show ignored almost entirely.
Regarding addressing Marc's Jewishness, I think the show was obviously not going to fully hash it out. But an acknowledgement would have gone a long way. Something like: Stephen has the flashback to the Shiva. Stephen: We're Jewish? Marc: I am, at least. I'm not sure you are. Stephen: And you serve a pagan god? Marc: ... *sighs*... That is too big a topic to discuss right now.
When I watched it I really loved it but i hadn't read the comics about him, now that I have read a few I started to understand how some people may be disappointed but I still think the show is very good
I just feel like you can't make a superhero movie and focus on every cultural and religious aspect of the character in one single season. If the show had done that it would've just gotten criticism for the lack of action etc. They did a great job overall i think and there are very many shows and movies that we should spend time and energy critiquing on the lack of diversity than Moonknight
This was an incredible video and gives a lot of great perspective about a series I liked but was conflicted about. That said, as the quote you provided proved.... supernatural Moon Knight is literally 1984.
Glad you had a chance to stretch out and discuss this very good show thoroughly. I would like to see a Netflix Daredevil video doing an in depth review like this, prior to that new series premiering. Nice job 👍🏻
There’s actually 2 scenes with Jake Lockley. There’s a scene where he freaks out when talking to Doctor Harrow that I really like. We’re led to believe it’s Mark but he has a very different accent from Mark and he has a bandaid that Mark or Stephen didn’t.
Hey, this show managed to make it so I now associate Moon Knight with Oscar Isaac rather than that time I literally breathed in water I was drinking when I first heard about the character (the friend describing him made him sound like basically Sailor Moon + Batman and that was quite the visual). It's nice to no longer associate a character with that time I failed to spit-take and couldn't breathe. Also, I did enjoy the show. Episode 5 in particular is amazing.
As a half Egyptian girl with curly hair, I loved this. My dad, who is from Egypt, really enjoyed the show. We were both crying our eyes out on Marcs background exploration scenes. The barrier between Jewish and Egyptians is something that both countries want to keep alive, but to me, you are all my brothers and sister and aunts and uncles an nieces an nephews. Same for all the other walks in life. Culture is beautiful, and something to share so that we can all grow as human.
a few things: 1) I loved this show and didn't even realize there was this much hate. I thought it was super creative and refreshing for the MCU. ok 2) I'm Jewish and thought the representation was a-ok. I got myself a little too excited about having the possibility of great representation, so I had to kind of accept that they were more interested in the Egyptian and DID rep than the Jewish elements. This is especially clear if you watch the BTS documentary where I don't think they mentioned his Jewishness at all. That wasn't a problem so much as it was personally sad for me to not get to see it onscreen. I think your commentary was spot-on. 3) I'm only saying this because I'm sure you don't know, but calling this type of divinity "Old Testament" is not the best to hear as a Jewish viewer- we only really go by what Christians call the Old Testament (although they are two different books they often get conflated). And "Old Testament bad and crazy, New Testament good and merciful" is a very common sentiment that can demonize Jews, since we don't believe in the New Testament. Again, I'm only pointing this out because I love the way you handle Jewish issues on this channel! Genuinely I agree with all of your takes about Judaism from this and other videos. 4) I don't think the sanitized violence was a problem at all, since it was almost always used to make fight scenes more creatively executed and it put us in Steven's shoes in a really effective way. Anyway I was super excited to watch this retrospective and the wait paid off!!
3 - poor word choice on my part, I apologise. I think I’d picked up ‘old testament’ from somewhere as a by-word for divinity as more ‘morally grey’ compared to the omnibenevolent, cuddly God figure a lot of modern Christian/post-Christian culture tends to imagine. That’s what I was going for, rather than ‘bad and crazy’ - but even so I see now that I’d have been much better using a different phrase altogether. Apologies, won’t happen again!
@@PillarofGarbage no worries at all! It totally becomes part of the culture and it only grates for me after hearing so many others use it so poorly. You're doing amazing
This was supposed to be a neo noir psychological thriller with hints of mysticism that make you wonder how much was real at all or just in Mark's head. They turned it into Indiana Jones and The Mummy's Curse. I'd say about half of that show works . The big problem is tone. It's all over the place. The suits fine though. And yes, sometimes Moon Knight punches ghosts. That doesn't make him Dr. Strange.
I’m a big Moon Knight fan. The struggle between being passive in the face of aggression as a Jew, and saying fuck it & responding the way one who doesn’t believe in faith would; is something personal to myself and really drives this character. Overall, I liked the show. It’s not Marvel’s Moon Knight, but it’s the MCU’s. It feels like a different scale of world for this Marc, and it adapts the Jeff Lemeire run the best it can, in the world that’s been set up. Personally, I would have like a Jewish actor for the role, but I really think Oscar is too good of a performer to be angry at. What you said about the “more Percy Jackson than Spider-Man” I think is so accurate. Which, to me, is really the only poor conception of the show. A year later, I still think it’s a good adaptation/mini-series, but it isn’t perfect.
Btw @PillarofGarbage thank you for not being someone like the Critical Drinker. You have kindness, and intelligence on your side. You break down things like this in a less biased and more thoughtful way, and for that- you are one of the best in this corner on RU-vid. Keep killing it, king! EDIT: word
As a Jewish MCU fan, I really liked and agreed with your assessment of why the Jewish representation in this show felt worse than maybe it should have. It is completely the fault of the MCU (and wider media culture as a whole) not representing Jews in accurate (or really any) ways. I feel a lot better about it now. I also think the Jewish-Egyptian aspect of MK is REALLY interesting and could put out some of the greatest and most meaningful stories if done right. It truly is a happy accident. I will say it would probably be extremely hard to do tho. Love your vids, keep doing what you love and contributing some nuance to MCU discussion. Loved the kosher joke.
This is the only MCU thing I’ve enjoyed watching since Avengers 1. A story that made sense, consistent characterisation, no endless undercutting of bathos, actors who give a shit and no fucking quipping.
Moon Knight definitely was a part of our realization to being a system. The Cinema Therapy video on it was also part of the realization. That, on top of one of our best friends, who is a system, telling us they thought we already knew we were a system when we brought it up with them. But yeah, we love Moon Knight.
I love your take on the balance found and appreciation of the cultures depicted in Moon Knight. Representation is CRITICALLY important, but I feel like many times any group claims a piece of media should have done more regarding a piece of representation, that the piece still needs to function as a story first and foremost. The Jewish and Egyptian aspects of the show version of the character were BEAUTIFUL! And functioned great in the story they wanted to tell. Why does any piece of media need to take on the responsibility of resolving decades or centuries worth of cultural development or strife? That's why representation is so critically important; so that a single piece of media doesn't have to display every aspect of a culture. That responsibility needs to be spred out across MORE pieces of media representing various cultures. Great video. I love your stuff.
I really like this take of yours.Such a fair take with comprehensible arguments,even bringing things I didn't even know before (that is various versions of Moon Knight,like the one where Steven is possessed by a priest and a comic I've never seen before).This is such a breath of fresh air from other's thoughts that either mostly repeated sentences over and over or just purely rage with no real content (not all of them,but they're dominant).I like how nuanced it is,how you admitted your limits of knowledge,and all of it topped with a good conclusion.Thank you very much for this video,I enjoyed it more than I hoped I would 😄 (also I know this sounds cheesy,but yeah I really appreciate this video as someone who likes this show and constantly tries to analyze it 👍)
Two examples of great Egyptian representation pre-dating Moon Knight: Rami Malek (parents from Cairo) in Night at the Museum and Zeeko Zaki (born in Alexandria) in the police procedural FBI. But yeah, it was pretty rare. And those could rightly be criticized because they made up a fake pharaoh for Malek to play and Zaki portrays a fed in the greater Dick Wolf copaganda universe...
