You cannot do enough Old World content of just talking about the game. I’m in the middle of a summer semester and I need this during my drive home from work every day.
I think the first time you face it, it is pure shock and awe. The second time, it is you who wants to scream. But after the third time is just another list and you know how to deal with it.
I had to google them to look and yeah, they’re pretty nice looking. If that is the case, and GW feels they can’t sell minis for Old World because they let the property sit too long (allowing too many competing options) then they’d probably nuke this game pretty quick. That would be a really sad consequence. 😢
Reading the episode title and remembering my skaven army getting crushed every time by my local store owner's zombie dragon which healed back faster than I could damage the thing. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same, hey?
Yeah, GW really loves writing cool fluffy rules for undead and make them extremely powerful as a result. 6+ army wide regeneration; they recover wounds by Ld checks; + all units are immune to psychology (ghouls aren't considered alive anymore); it's tough. They have many upsides but very few downsides.
Between Val’s Bills fandom and use of mensch I’m further convinced that Canada is either north upstate NY or that upstate NY is south Canada. Either way, dwarfs now please.
Val's dance in the intro is the thing of legend. Great video, guys. Perfect timing for my TOW online tournament vs Vampire Counts today and then my IRL game vs Vampire Counts on the weekend. So much Vamp. Cheers! 🎲
I have nothing of note to add, other than thank you to both of you for continuing to be my favourite thing on youtube and best mental health salve I have. I DO need to play more oldworld you are correct.
If anything, a change making the Terrorgheist not being able to scream if **it** is in combat would make things more tactical in allowing some counter play - making it less of a freebie...
it is such a blessing that ya'll are doing all you are doing to get this game to the masses. Old world is such a joy and giving folks an opportunity to try it in an online setting where they--as you all say--aren't being tied to that production meta is a great step toward breaking down the barriers to entry here
I finally found my old warhammer wood elf army in my parents home. Carrying it back home to the States over 7000 miles back and then stripping and rebasing etc. It's a monumental task but I can't wait to try it out again. Had a few games with my old warhammer club while here but it's tons of fun
@@Twunga They are slightly different than 8th edition but I love the fact that you can upgrade the glade guard according to your needs etc. Still fragile and glass cannon as always but I can't find a single unit that doesn't have a use anymore. Not a huge fan of the new treesinging yet but I am sure I will like it
Ah MAN! That giant carrying the platform! That’s one of my earliest Warhammer memories. There was one in a shop window on the Isle of Wight - I remember seeing it on my summer holidays before even playing Heroquest. Right in the feels!
Hhmm. Every one of your episodes takes me 5% closer to maybe possibly starting an old world army. I'm a dedicated 40ker. Never played AoS... but was slowly being persuaded and purchased a Vengorian Court box. Should I build then as old world Vampire Counts? What to do? Seriously, both, your videos are awesome.
Its great fun! If you know any TOW players ask If ypu can try a game. Maybe they either A. Have two armies. Or B. If their army is big enough so you can play a mirrormatch. I mean many of us have pver 2000 pts. And demo games should probably be like 750 or 1000 pts tops.
@@Ultr4l0f Thats a plan. I was at the London wargames guild event on Monday. Some 16 tables I think; and five of them were old world. Looked like very chilled fun.
I was in a similar position, big 40k player wondering about getting in. I just finished painting my lizardmen army and have had a few games. It is a blast and very refreshing as a 40k player. I am still getting 40k in as well. As for AoS, I have put my infantry on circle bases with conversion trays. Monster square bases can fit on top of circle bases. So I can play my lizards in AoS in the future.
I've been waiting for someone to have a conversation about quality over quantity when it comes to playing our favorite games. I've been preaching this philosophy for a while now. I played competitive 40k back in 2015 and beyond,, had fun but now realize that what makes our fave games the best is talking about how cool the game is more than trying to bust up a meta. Thank you gentlemen!
They wouldn't have announced it so early if they planned to release it so late, there was no pressure or roadmap or any commitment in place for them to feel obliged to have an announcement. It's more likely some kind of boring, mundane warehouse/production delay, knock on effect kind of thing.
Another awesome episode, lads. You guys are my go-to. Rob the loveable hobby master + Val the sweaty-ist competitive warhammer legend is an unstoppable combo. All the love.
having played whfb 7, 8 and 9th ed, Undead armies have always been OP simply based on the game design they are given. the only few times that they were totally erased from the meta was because of hard nerfs before the balance cycle happened all over again.
1:10:10 Makes sense, fanatics are not 3 extra models, and are not counted as part of the unit’s total number of models. They’re more like a Remains in Play spell that’s cast by the unit.
Did you clock the high elf player saying at the start that he didn't play for ages as he wouldn't play anything except wfb. Then you look at his army and it's about 23 elves, two dragons and two phoenixes. Have to laugh I suppose.
Would love to see some simple play through screen shots of a top 10 super moves you didn’t know were possible in old world - for instance fighting combats in an order that might allow a charging unit that overruns to “fight twice” in a single combat phase, how to use a fleeing unit to drag a charging unit out of position, how to position a mage to bounce a vortex through a line of units. These are all probably super basic to you both as experienced players, but in essence, what are the craziest/coolest plays you can think of that would teach the community something new about the dynamics of the game.
Val might prefer playing against dragons to MSU now, but let's see how long that lasts now that double dragon is starting to show up more... :) My issue with 'rule of 3' for events is that it imposes that preference *on everyone*. Up here in Scotland, there's been a good mix of rules packs, and even with full spam being allowed, we're getting a wide variety of different flavours of Dragon with nothing in the way of spam. So, I don't know how necessary the rule of 3 is, and if spam turns out to balance the meta or lead to some fun (or at least different) gameplay, the rule might hurt more than it helps. Of course, TOs should run whatever event they damn well please - they're giving up their weekend to let us have fun! - but in the discussion about how the *scene* should (or could) look, it seems weird to me to let dragons and screams play out, but not spam (I know which I find more fun!). The best solution IMO is for every event to run a bit differently to keep things changing up and avoid meta stagnation - but I know Rob wants consistency, replicability, and good quality stats!
The thing is ... neither game state is desirable. Had we (and others) not pushed for unit caps the alternative timeline might be "Ridden monsters are fine... it's the 15 dragon ogres that suck "... So now we don't have to wait for two mutant metas to rise and be nerfed. I feel quite confident that dealing with tankiness and T6 will change the game largely for the better.
@@valheffelfinger6521 That's a possibility, although it hasn't eventuated when we've been playing without caps. Partly, I think, because outside of maybe dragon ogres it's ultimately not powerful enough to be top tier (gives up too many points). My worry is we descend back into the whack-a-mole of comping whatever the strongest thing is, then doing it again to the next strongest thing, and so on. Nothing caused more grief in the old WFB days than comp debates!
Love the idea of more battle report content from you guys. I want to check out the live coverage. The Warhall report is very fun short form report. Maybe take notes during the game to have something to refer back to, once the games over I know I only tend to remember the general highs and lows.
Guys, i love the energy and atmosphere of your show. I also discovered warhall through your channel. One thing I'd like (and maybe more people would be interested...) is to see a battle report in warhall ! I get what warhall has to offer and that it is not trying to replicate the tabletop feeling... What I'm not sure though is whether the 3D representation was needed. Would it have achieved its purpose if it simply had simpler graphical representation ? (Because i have to say, I think the 3D models don't look nice and push me away more than attracting me.
Universal battle 2 is pretty much top-down 2d warhall. But the 3rd dimension does add a lot after trying both, even if the models look pretty goofy in warhall
guys can i suggest a format (video for ex) where good players explain how to play the game? for exemple explain every phase and strategy? the reason i think it could be very interesting is the game is very hard to play, expecially for newcomers. For that reason its not easy to find a game where people play correctly. i think thats a good way to put new players too in this amazing hobby xD
For those interested I recommend checking out Kings of War. Similar rank and flank game but wayy more accessible, would like to know these bois thoughts on it.
So I got my Orc and gobbo Box. And was kind of iffy about the bases. Then I was happy to have less worry on the rank formation. Chaos warriors must be giddy as a school girl. Gobbos on the 20mm square was never an issue. But more room for bits on da base. I see there is additional hand weapons for the Orcs, need to get the army book and see if they still have that option? No hand weapon and shield for the gobbos?
As a collector/painter/player I think not being a 'weird faction zealot' is strange. To have the passion to do it all, you need to stick to just a few parts of the whole. Maybe Skaven is the 'power' faction, but what do I care? I will never collect (stage one) Skaven , so I will never ever reach stage two or three and play them. Let me play my High Elves and hope for the best. I only remember games I was the underdog and still pulled off a slim victory (those of the good ones).
If Vals black orcs had been another unit of NG with 3 fannytics + enough points for some snotlings or a bolt thrower I think it could have been better?
@SquareBasedOldWorld I've found 10 with great weapons, no command except boss, (if points headbuttin hat on boss) have done much more for me than my unit of 20 I always used to take.
Fucking Dwarves! Do my head in. One of the easiest armies to play, and make them so tough. No wonder people like them. Add that to your Book of Grudges.
I really wanted to participate in this tournament, but my arm is not completely painted yet, I spend every free moment to finish it so that I can go to the tournament.
Depending on the contents of whats in the warriors of chaos box, I might pick up the old world then. I do have some soulblight leftovers that could encourage me to make a vampire count army, but i don't know if i like the legacy rules enough to go out of my way for that.
Watched a good chunk of the battle from the tournament, thanks for putting it up. Production-wise it's fine - the audio is good and you can see what's happening properly. They seem like nice enough people and play in a good spirit which is all reassuring. The big downside is the game itself which doesn't reflect very well on competitive old world at this stage. Lots of rules errors chiefly driven by the tk player and some of them are pretty fundamental stuff to do with how combat is resolved, line of sight etc and they had a big effect on the game. A load of army specific stuff too apparently or at least according to a comment below the video though I wouldn't be too clued up about much of that. I don't think anyone should expect rules-perfect games by any means, but this was to a level where I ended up thinking that bringing a filthy list and speaking authoritatively about rules you're wrong about might get you a long way at the moment!
I don't think he was cheating or anything, just that his misplaced confidence in his knowledge of the rules had a big effect on the game. It's hard to say someone's playing a game 'well' if the beliefs they're basing their tactical decisions on are false. And yet he still won the tournament I think. Agree that it's early days, but if this game was typical then results should be taken with a pinch of salt. That said I've also seen the vc scream tournament winner interviewed and I'd be very surprised if he doesn't know his rules inside out and perhaps this one was the exception rather than the rule.
I have nostalgia for Old World and want to play. However I dont have enough time and the unavailability of minis and having to source from different sources is eating away time I dont have to search them. 3D printing is not really an option for me as I dont have space and again my time is limited :). Also I want my dwarfs :D!!! I want to build a dwarf army!! TT tactics did a nice podcast how GW seems to have botched the releases and I agree with Rob and them!! Where are the DWARFS!! ?
I was literally only just asking these questions (where are the Dwarves) a few days ago. I'm worried that they've been delayed and are being held off untill after the new AoS game drops.
Hey Rob. A newbie here with only 2 games under my belt but want to jon your events...or any otbers in UK. Is there a single website summarising these like in bloodbpwl ?
I think they explain what I have issues with in tournaments. There are those that want to win at all cost and are just toxic for the community and look through the internet looking for that one list that is so hard to even come close to beating. And they are so proud that they brought that list and can’t see how toxic they can be. I’m not saying don’t bring a hard list, it’s a tournament, but when you see the same list over and over we all know they didn’t come up with it on their own.
Have been monitoring things The Old World and the biggest thing I have noticed is just how unsure people are about the rules. It seems very much a case of Rules mining and Scheming before you get to the table - so is GREAT entertainment off the table. I am waiting for the dust to settle before really giving it a go. I will be playing it for ridiculous narrative moments - as a fun game. It in no way replaces Kings of War which is a very different type of game. I compare the two like this. ToW is a Fantasy game with Wargame flavor, KoW Is a Wargame with Fantasy flavor that is pretty bland off the table, but shines on it. If you want fantasy shennanigans and evil genius scheming get your ToW on, if you want solid wargaming play KoW.
Kow goes through balance phases where there is clearly a top spammable unit. I remember beasts of nature a long time ago, and then recently nightstalkers. Although I haven't looked into the game in a while I am a bit turned off by some of the aspects of the game.. To me the choice is old world or t9a. Kow doesn't have the complexity. Remembering rules isn't an issue.. after 10-20 games you kind of just learn them.
Dwarfs!! So already GW's production for new TOW releases is behind. This just speaks to the commitment behind this game (it ain't main range) and the priority it has. Don't hold your breathe for new stuff... and when the models do come, they'll sell-out super fast... because the production capacity does not exists to keep up (and keep the other main ranges going too). GW have no plan to meet demand for the TOW... they'll take the £s they can and that is it. If your hoping for big things and sustained support, I think you're in for disappointment. Players have much love for WH, GW does not.
Considering AOS... a flagship game... if releasing in July is probably delayed a month... I'd say this is more of a GW problem, not a commitment to tOW problem. Four factions in 6 months is a blistering release pace. And I think we'll see Dwarfs before AoS. But we'll see I guess.
I was so hyped about TOW, dusted off my minis, started painting again, rebased. Im struggling only with the last step and that is to move somewhere else because NOBODY plays TOW in Slovakia :/
Join the online tournament! Or... take a deep breath and paint up a second army lol. Gonna have to build a meta by the sounds of it : ) Some day I look forward to hearing about the incredible scene in Slovakia! Also I wouldn't be surprised if there is one in the shadows somewhere.... the east loves their WHFB
@@SquareBasedOldWorld There was a great scene in cz/sk, we attended 4-5 tournaments a year since 5th ed, but all of my friends are old farts now that think there is no time for this anymore :D Well anyway ill continue looking for now :) (btw im HE player)
Here is my hot take. Old World was silently discontinued when a GW exec saw it eating up to much production capacity. This will however not be confessed to until some time in autumn.
Normal armies can't, but the undead can because they have a different rule for their BSB "Friendly units within the Battle Standard Bearer's Command range may re-roll any failed Leadership test. "
There's definitely some players in the middle of that venn diagram... but I think AoS probably has one of the more unique and organic player bases. I've speculated previously that I'd think Old World is more likely to cannibalize 40k and non-gw games than anything else.
Nah, it's not chess, fanatics are fine as they are relatively easy to deal with and not consistent. If fanatics were consistent it would definetly be an issue.
So I watched the game linked in this video and the Tomb King player consistently misplays his rules and it ends up giving him a lot of advantages. It feels really unfair on his opponent as if he was playing the rules correctly the game would have been a high elf victory I think pretty clearly. I made a long comment on the video of everything he misplays and its quite a lot, I think if we are in the phase of community building then shouldn't we expect players to have a baseline of understanding of their own army so that they aren't cheating their opponents? I don't think its a lot to ask, especially as this player won the entire event.
I also commented a few times on that video. I think giving the benefit of the doubt is for the best - I can't imagine a top end player like it sounds like he is (in the AoS world) as intentionally cheating or anything. And at the end of the day, it's a game. But this is maybe an opportunity for the player to reflect a bit and maybe comes in with a little less confidence on his rules going forward. Maybe a little more willing (as we all should be) to say "Hey, I'm not sure. Let's look that up quick." And maybe a lesson for us all to have the confidence to advocate for that (and/or to have rules readily at hand for ourselves).
@@Na_bro_leon while the intention may not have been to cheat, is there a point where you misremember your rules so badly and gain such an advantage from doing so that it becomes cheating? I don’t know the answer!
"More people need to PLAY the Old World" - this sounds very funny! There is no one more unfriendly and intolerant to fresh people than the fantasy community! This is a closed sect of gatekeepers, they don’t want fat kids to come into THEIR hobby and desecrate it with their dirty hands. Moreover, if ToW becomes popular, GW will rewrite the lore to suit the mainstream trends, for example adding magical ice bears, Chinese dragon-princesses or Afro-female Bretonnian foot knights... Oh wait!
having played whfb 7, 8 and 9th ed, Undead armies have always been OP simply based on the game design they are given. the only few times that they were totally erased from the meta was because of hard nerfs before the balance cycle happened all over again.
