"Mormon" Church: Taxes, Trust, Transparency: Deeper Context | E0008 

@@eneyeseekay That does not the describe the training I received (which was in 2019) when called as a Self-reliance specialist for our Stake. The Church wants member to tell their leaders as early as possible about potential financial problems when they are more easily dealt with. The Self Reliance classes are best attended before any crisis becomes critical. I am sorry about your experience. The policy of the Church is that while Church attendance, payment of tithing, and participation in cleaning are to be encouraged, they are never to be used as requirements for receiving help. Membership itself is not supposed to be a requirement. Self-Reliance specialists are never to be informed whether or not someone is a full tithe payer, Temple Recommend holders, or even a membership status when assigned to help a family.

You received financial help. Why not give back? It's a simple ask. The very least you could do. The guilty feeling you had is a you problem. And now you're in here trashing the very church that offered you help in a time of need just because you were asked to help in return?

@@alishabee369 Well, from watching the "Come Back" podcast, and with multiple family members who have left the Church, it seems to me that everyone has their own unique story. Just as every conversion story is personalized, so is every falling away.

@@gigi1332 Are you stating that help is only available for full tithe payers? As that is not even one of the questions on the financial assistance intake form, that seems unlikely. 20-30% of those getting help are not even members, let alone full tithe payers. You may have been misinformed.

My family has been helped multiple times by the church. In very generous ways. I've also served as a ward clerk and as a bishopric counselor and have seen many non member and less active members helped in very generous ways.

Churches do not provide the same services as hospitals and schools; how can u actually compare?

I agree. The law of tithing is spiritual, not a physical law. It’s an invitation to focus on the spiritual and not the physical. We must not forget that God did not create money. People make and worship money, not God. He invites us to consecrate and sacrifice the physical for spiritual purposes.

They don't because 60 minutes would have a field day.

@@2atomicman Really, what specifically did he say that in any way rebuked any of the allegations made on the 60 Minutes segment. Explain this to ne as if I'm a 5 year old!

If the had him on it would have been the end of the salacious issue and "60 minutes" likes controversy. Hence, they won't have him on.

To be honest, that bishop did not represented me. He sounds very arrogant and misleading.

It wouldn’t fit the anti church narrative wanted by the program and those who can’t leave the church alone.

That's awesome he's really smart

Aaron Miller responded quickly and was willing to share to help balance the conversation. To find someone who knows nonprofit management, the law, ethics, and the gospel is a rare find. His perspective is unique and powerful in my opinion.

This is upsetting. There is a member in Ecuador who's daughter needs help with college. He can't hardly feed his family and tells me his power has been turned off. The truth is there are WIDE discrepancies among the different wards and stakes of the church. Being Mormon in Utah is night and day different than being Mormon "out in the mission field".

​@@corbsoso there is a cool program set up specifically outside of the USA called the perpetual education fund. I highly reccommend that he look into it, the idea is that people get training in a marketable skill and its paid for by this program, and when you get a job in said field you can pay it back to your ability.

What about BYU pathways worldwide in Ecuador?

Ask your bishop

🤣

9p

😊😊po 😅 54:34 😊😊😊the p😊vog 1:01:32

Aaron's expertise in Non-Profit Management and Ethics really allowed us to go deep on the ins and out of this topic, I'm glad it is helpful to you Benjamin.

@@LetsGetRealSJ Do u actually have a real job, or you just shill for the Mormon church full time?

If you are looking for balance, you might want to check out the Widow's mite report rather than an employee of the church (via BYU) being interviewed by a person funded by the More Good Foundation which in turn receives 20% of its funding directly from the church and 80% from extremely wealthy members.

You are welcome.

-Jim Haplert -Stephen Jones

Thank you. Is there a particular section you would most likely want others to hear/know about? What helped you the most?

@@LetsGetRealSJ similar to your podcast with Scott Woodward, this topic needs context! The analogy of the protection around the electrical wire is totally applicable in this conversation too! And a lot of people over look that. That's not a specific section or topic you discussed but I found it very informative in that regard.

Do you remember which part was most refreshing? It’s good to know things like that for future conversations with others and to have more empathy with such a complex and heavy topic.

So full of bullsh/t!

So someone you helped, who didn't have enough to cover their basic/vital expenses, didn't prioritize worship or spirituality?

No, it's the same policy of "if you give a man a fish he eats for a day, if you teach a man to fish he will eat for a lifetime. There are SO MANY who take advantage of funds that are given to them. Some people just want a hand out and when it stops they blame the church for not helping.

It changes the relationship even if the person isn't looking for a hand out. I've seen parents give money to their grown children and it resets the relationship from a set of adults back to parent child. Giving back after receiving can be hard but it is part of the process of restoring that relationship as a peet.

@@cs2388 I've found that people are just upset that the LDS Church has a lot of money. It goes against everything that the rest of the world believes in. The LDS Church is extremely financially responsible. If anyone needs help, it's available. The LDS Church has a lot of money and I'm grateful for it. The LDS Church is actually horrible at sharing with people the billions it spends every year on helping the poor or afflicted. They donate MASSIVE amounts to the Red Cross, who then gets all the credit for what they do. There are many many examples exactly like this. The mall, yes they make money, but their intent was to create a better environment in downtown SLC, as it was falling apart and becoming run down. I'm glad the LDS Church has a lot of money, but they only have about 1800 per member, so if everything starts to fall apart then they can help out a little. I just think it's funny that people totally misunderstand what's actually going on. I think the members are the ones that should their hard earned money on the poor, the church shouldn't have to do it. I think there are a lot of people that go through the motions with tithing. If like to see people reform their own hearts and not depend on the church at all. Many members are great and donate and help, but there are a lot that love money. Not a perfect system, but we're trying... Comments like this just make me wonder what your motives really are... They don't seem to be in understanding anything, but just going along with the narrative of Mormon haters... LoL

Thank you. Which part was most helpful for you?

@@LetsGetRealSJ Going into the specifics of the "moving around" money that the church was doing helped add some context.

I agree our church is old and the lord stresses self reliance so our church and members are taken care of

Not “Everyone” believes it!

@@BlondaLynn You’re right. I know this is a hard topic for many,Just curious, which part is the hardest to believe for you? Is the entire topic in general hard to believe? Are there parts you do agree with at all?

I was hoping someone would mention this. They accepted personal accountability in violating the law otherwise, yes, the bad legal defense would have been an out. Sad they didn’t take full accountability to members in the statement they released to them. And it was pretty, I hate saying this, but, it was pretty disrespectful and arrogant to end with, “we consider the matter closed.” It does feel like an abuser or abusive relationship that says, “I admired it, I paid the fine, we don’t need to talk about it, don’t be a little baby. We’re done talking about this.” It makes me sad saying this so please no one dump on me for having my own feelings about this.

your comment: The church can't say they acted on legal advice. If they did, then there would be an investigation into the lawyer who gave them that advice. Acting on legal advice is a defense that can be used and would have been investigated. Also, it's important to remember that church leaders are attorneys, and so they would have advised themselves to do illegal activity. my reply: The Church may have very well gotten incorrect legal advice from their financial advisor(s), (lawyer(s), attorney(ies), or legal team. Not all Church leaders are attorneys (very few are), and besides there are different types of attorneys. Just to name a some of them: Administrative Attorneys Family Lawyers Criminal Defense Lawyers Prosecutors Civil Lawyers Intellectual Property Attorneys Personal Injury Attorneys Tax Attorneys So why would Church leaders advise themselves if they have no knowledge of the Tax or Investment system. The Church took responsibly for their action and paid the fine. your comment: The church expects members to pay tithing as a bill, an obligation, a loyalty fee, a temple membership fee. Active members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints give their tithes and offering as gratitude for all that the Lord has blessed us with. Tithes and offerings were practiced in the Old and New Testament times. God’s Covenant people should always be willing to help build the Kingdom of God through giving of tithes and offerings. Why doesn't the church act in faith that god will provide for the church. Rather than placing that financial burden on the members. Why doesn't the church have faith that god will provide loyal congregations without elaborate temples and elaborate spending. my reply: It is through tithes and offerings that the Lord has provided for His Church. Just as God did in the Old Testament and New Testament times. God’s Covenant people have always offered their tithes and offerings. Even during Christ’s ministry (3 years) they still needed money to support themselves. Why would the apostles still need to go fishing? To earn money for their support. Christ didn’t just make the money appear. Christ had a treasurer during his ministry, so again they needed money for their support in spreading the gospel. your comment: Church leaders, specifically those receiving 100k + annually, forfeit their pay and give it to the poor. my reply: The General Authority Church Leaders (24 hr Church Ministry) only get a stipend (basic living allowance) of $120,000+ (2014 figures, maybe alittle more now) unlike many of the salaries of these other non-profit organizations where many of these top leaders are getting paid over a million dollars each year, some 5 or 6 million dollars a year. Many of our General Authority Leaders were paid much much more in their private lives as business owners, lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc. None of our local Church leaders get paid. The local churches (congregations) are all run by volunteers. Why should we ask them (our General Authority Leaders - Prophet, Apostles, Seventies, General Relief Sisters, General Primary Sisters, General Young Women’s Sisters, etc.) to give up their basic living allowance. How will they pay for their housing (mortgage/rent), food, clothing, etc. It’s like asking you to give up your yearly salary every year to the poor. What are you suppose to live on. How will you pay your mortgage/rent, food, clothing, etc. The Church has given over 1 billion dollars last year to over 100+ organzations, humanitarian relief, disaster relief, emergency relief, etc. throughout the world and continues to do so. Members of the Church also give millions to other charities besides giving their tithes and offering. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints offer a lot of volunteering time serving others, many of them not of our faith. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does alot of good worldwide. The Church has donated BILLIONS of dollars to other organizations (Catholic Charities, Salvation Army, United Way, Red Cross, Colleges (some non-LDS), etc., etc., etc.,) for humantarian, medical, disaster relief, clean water projects in Africa and other areas, food banks, college scholarships, Wheel Chairs, etc. Most of these donated BILLIONS have gone to help people not of our faith. The Church (monetary donations, humanitarian aid, volunteers) have assisted in many of the natural disasters worldwide. The Church and its members are usually one of the 1st religious organizations that come out in large numbers to assist in these disasters (Earthquakes, Floods, Hurricanes, Wildfires, etc).

The LDS Church values the service hours and the fast offerings. They count those in their numbers when they boast about how much they've given in humanitarian aid. 800 million dollars in fast offerings only helps local members NOT others. The hours spent serving a mission are also counted in the billion dollars they claim to be giving in humanitarian aid.

@@eneyeseekay That is incorrect. There is no requirement for membership to receive assistance, as anyone who has worked for a Bishop's Storehouse could tell you. While I only know about my local Storehouse, during the height of the pandemic, about 1/5 of those being helped were not members. In addition the Storehouse tripled its donations of food to local soup kitchens. And we were helping out the Salvation Army food bank when they ran out. Given those errors of fact in your statement, how can I trust the other things you claim?

@@brettmajeske3525 Hes spreading lies and misinformation about how the Church Welfare and Assistance Program works. For The Church does not just only help out just its own members in need as he trying to claim. The Church has for many years has assisted many others in need other than members in disaster relief efforts and in other humanitarian service welfare projects to those who are not even members of the Church..

​@@Max_Johnson That is not the policy of the Church at large as was explained in any of my training. The person conducting the training did mention that back in the 50s -80s the culture was that the Church was the last resort, but starting in the 80s official policies had changed as the Church itself became more financially independent. There has been more effort made in the last 20 years make Bishops aware of the resources provided by the Church beyond just food and cash. Every Stake, if not every Ward should have a Self-Reliance Specialist. Not only to facilitate classes, but to help Bishops determine the actual needs. There is a whole questionnaire the Specialist helps to fill out before the Bishop even gets involved. It is fare less personal than the forms required by our State government, or even organizations like the Red Cross and Salvation Army. While the Bishop ultimately is the one who approves what support the Ward can offer, everyone receiving help should have either a Ward Self-Reliance specialist, or a member of the Elder's Quorum/Relief Society Presidency assigned as a councilor. Not only does the Specialist help access the persons needs, but also provides training in how to improvement employment/education, financial planning, emotional resilience, as well as government and other local resources (which may include help applying for disability or welfare). I have often found most people in need are unaware of all the possible help that is available. In my experience the local Ward provides short term help, of anywhere from six months to three years, while at the same time providing training and assistance in applying for long term help. Back when Pres Eyring was the Presiding Bishop of the Church he noticed that many state and federal assistance program could take up to two years for people to be accepted. The Church, through the local Bishops, can approve emergency help in about a week. Thus the policy change that the Church is best suited for short term help while at the same time assisting families in accessing long term help through available state and federal programs. Changing culture is hard and takes time. Too many Bishops feel that because they have ultimate approval they should involved with every step of the process. As the Handbook of Instructions has made clear since the mid 90s, they just do not have the time to provide that level of personal attention. Even before the creation of the Self-Relience Specialist calling, Elders Quorum and Relief Society presidencies have been the official point of contact for families in need since that change in policy. It does not sound like your Bishop was following the established official policies that have been in place for the past 20 years. It may be surprising how difficult it can be to convince people that the policies learned during the hardships of the pasts have changed. In the 1950s the Church was on the verge of bankruptcy. Those problems were not fully resolved until the 80s, which is why the budget donation policy was changed. Since the surplus of the 80s onwards policies have adapted. Self- Relience Specialist have been an official calling for almost 20 years at this point,. Even so my own Ward only started calling people to the position within the last seven. I am sorry that your experiences did not match the expectations as found in the official policy guides. While the goal of assistance is to help families become more self-sufficient, shame is not one of the tools that should be used.

@@bobareturned I take it you have never served as a Ward Clerk or Assistant Clerk?

I agree. I’m thankful Aaron was ready and willing to share.

I'm glad this helped you. If any questions about this topic come up let me know and I can do my best to get you connected some of the most reliable sources.

As for the first question, the answer is zero. The stipends full time leader can optional receive does not come from tithing funds, but from investments. As for the second question, you have it backwards. America and Brazil are the only countries who collect more tithing than is spent on operating costs. America is the only country generating significant amounts of investments. I think you might have been confused by reports from Canada and Australia whose tax codes do not automatically grant tax exempt status to churches. Tithing collected in those countries are used for tax exempt purposes instead of the operating costs of the Church, which all come from the USA. Those reports fail to mention that American tithing was paying for all of the Church's expenses, including property taxes.

I think the people who say this type of comment assume that our church is set up like a lot of other churches where the preachers retire with millions of dollars in the bank. No one in our church is getting fabulously wealthy being in any church leadership position, even the president of the church. The expenses for the church in other countries are far greater than any tithing that comes in from those countries. I know this from first hand experience. The members in the USA are carrying the load, so to speak, and the other countries members contribute what they can, based on their economy and circumstances.

Kimball, Are you back from the mission already? Are you still in the film world?

Thank you. Aaron Miller is a an amazing and humble man who his eager to help and share. I’ve seen him do this in so many other ways.

I'm a stake auditor lol!

Every single penny must be accounted for. @@kz6fittycent

The first two are not mutually exclusive, and the guest answered the third issue. Assuming no economic down turns and static membership, the Church would still run out of money in less than ten years. Which is no where close to "forever". And the Church is still growing, just at a slower rate than in the past. During the Covid crisis tithing income dropped significantly, while expenditures, at least at the local level, almost doubled. Food and monetary assistance, at least where I live, have not yet return to prepandemic levels. The renovation of the Slat Lake Temple was also an unexpected expense. It is only because the Church had savings that none of those issues stopped the building of Temples or normal operations. The fact that all Ward sacraments are available via Zoom is another non-trivial expense.

@@Max_Johnson I find it interesting how the amount keeps growing, in the past five years critics have went from claiming Ensign Peak has 35 billion, to 100 billion, to 179 billion. Aaron Miller's calculations of ten years is based on 150 billion, which while possible is by no mean certain. If you check out his full article he explains the math involved, and why he doubts even the 100 billion claim. The so called whistle blower only ever admits to seeing records for 35B. Everything else is guesswork based on assumptions he would have had no way of knowing.

It also assumes that the church will continue to operate the same way it does. Having substantial savings and other investments will likely open opportunities no other church will be able to capitalize on. As a supporter of the LDS church I hope and anticipate many doors to open because of their wise financial management of these sacred funds donated by the faith of its members.

I agree. As Aaron said, humility on either or any side is important with a topic that is as complex and represents so much sacrifice and consecration.

@@bobareturned That seems to be the big difference between you and I - I give because I am grateful to the Savior for what he has done for me so I follow His commandments and pay a tithe. You seem to think the tithing is still yours, or that you should be receiving something for it. Even if that were the case, the Church is very clear what they feel their God-given purpose is in using these funds - to further the work of God on the Earth. I do not feel like I've been cheated or coerced in any way to give my tithing to the Church. A lot of commenters seem to be very angry that they don't have an entitlement to these funds that they didn't even know about, and never had any claim to. Also, if I'm not mistaken the Harvard endowment was given to them from a charitable party to benefit the students who are there to learn from Harvard. In that same sense, I give my tithing to the Church to help further its work to benefit those who come to it to receive further knowledge, understanding, and enlightenment from this institution. I think there is a correlation and justification for the analogy.

@@bobareturned Glad to see that you're open minded to learning about and respectful of other's opinions and lived experiences. Not to mention considering the millions of people who have been fed, clothed, and sheltered from natural disasters and war torn countries specifically funded by the tithes and offerings from members of this Church.

I suppose part of this is how paid/unpaid is defined. Local, Area, and Regional leadership are not paid no matter how one defines payment. The General level leadership is not paid a salary for preaching the Gospel. Those who are not independently wealthy are offered a living stipend that the IRS does not consider to be income. Since as part of their duties GA's are required to relocate from their home, legally the Church can cover those expenses without it being considered an income. On the average most become GAs in their late forties or early fifties, long before most people are ready for retirement. The stipend keeps them off of welfare. Board of Directors for many charitable organizations get stipends for their expected expenses in lieu of a salary. The University of Michigan regents get $250K a year, and that is also considered a stipend not a salary. The Q12 are considered regents for 5 different colleges, and administers for the Church as a whole, and get far less, if they even accept the stipend in the first place. One of the things that make stipends different from salaries is that they are constant throughout all levels. If the Prophet is accepting the stipend, he would get that same as Mission President, or Young Women's Presidency. The Church does have full time employees: gardeners, secretaries, accountants, etc. Some of them are also leaders, but many are not. Mostly the leadership are not employed by the Church, but a few are. The two are not really related. edit: Oh, and stipends do not come from the tithes and offerings of the membership, but from those other corporate entities you mentioned. You seem to think that they are paid for being Regents or Directors and are getting a stipend on top of that. I hope that is helpful.

​@@brettmajeske3525 Thank you, I learned more here.

@@brettmajeske3525everything you said seems right to me; are there written things publicly available to find these policies or evidences?

@@mikegillettify Unfortunately, not all in one place. Some policies are found in the Handbook of Instructions, others are found in the bylaws of the Deseret Management Corporation and Intellectual Reserve Inc. Much of what I know comes from personal conversations with a former Bishop who served as a Mission President and is now in the Q70. He was a financial lawyer for Bank of America before serving as a Mission President. He said that his stipend as a 70 is the same as it was as a Mission President, and that even Q12 and FP, when they accept the stipend, have the same. Many who can afford to choose not to accept the stipend, but everyone has different means and needs. Pres Eyring was the president of BYU before becoming a GA, which dropped his income almost in half. He was only 52 at the time and had still had children in high school and college as well as one serving on a mission. We tend to forget looking at their current ages, but the average age the current 15 became GAs was only 49. Most of whom were not financially independent.

@@brettmajeske3525 i appreciate the anecdotal evidence and the sources cited! Thank you!

Your comments are full of various misleading statements that show you didn’t watch the interview and that your not an expert in non profits. You should actually watch the interview and study the issue. The church made that decision based on the advice of lawyers. It’s not even clear if the first presidency or the quorum of the twelve apostles was directly apart of that decision.

@@utahman112 The first presidency has full 100 percent control of the money. The money belongs to them and is their responsibility. Some religions are fully transparent and show all finances. It is not the lawyers money. They are trying to shift the blame and many people have lost trust. If they did nothing wrong why did they pay a 5 million dollar fine? That was a choice. The church is prideful and never admits fault or apologizes. It is a pattern of pride.

@@utahman112 No, it was this interview that was misleading and full of omissions. What exactly about this statement is misleading?

The government comes with guns when you don’t pay your taxes.

Yes, but when a member doesn't pay 10% of their income to the Church they aren't allowed access to thr temple/the highest level in the celestial kingdom. Gotta pay to play/qualify.

@@eneyeseekay tithing is a concept taught in the Bible, and is even taught in non-Christian religions. If you don’t want to do it then you have to take that up with God in whatever faith tradition you believe in. If you don’t believe in any of them then there isn’t a problem now is there.

@@eneyeseekay so you’re offended that you can’t make covenants with God that you don’t intend to keep? Count your blessings that you aren’t permitted to do so.

@@Max_Johnson The Savior teaches very clearly in the New Testament and really throughout the entire bible that if you aren't willing to follow his commandments you won't be able to receive the full blessing of His great sacrifice and mercy. He even goes so far as teaching that if you're not willing to do as he asks he will throw you out of the wedding feast in Matthew 22:11-14. I'd be very wary of a church that teaches infinite mercy without any personal accountability while still taking your money. Now, if your hang-up with temple marriages is about paying tithing, there's a very simple solution, especially if you don't truly believe in the teachings of the church - pay some tithing, get a temple recommend and go to the wedding. But here's the big warning - if it is true, then you know what the consequences are of lying before God. So, how do you find out if it's true or not? Well, ask God - if He is who He says He is, then He will give you an answer that you will recognize and understand.

Just a note, nowhere is any official LDS publication is tithing defined as 10% of one's gross income. That is but a common traditional interpretation. The temple recommend question only asks if one pays a full or partial tithing, with the member, not the Bishop, who gets to decide what that means. Having worked as a Selfreliance Specialist, that is a question people often ask. The training I was provided was to tell people to pray about whether they should pay on gross or net. Those who choose net are still considered to be full tithe payers.

Something that many people fail to understand is that the word "charity" covers a lot of ground. It can mean a group that provides direct services, such as a school, Salvation Army, Boy Scouts of America, or soup kitchens. It can mean disbursements, like United Way or the Gates Foundation. Groups that give money to those involved in direct services. It can mean a Church. Something the 60 Minutes interview failed to explain is that all religious activities count as being charitable under US tax code. Which means all of the LDS Church's expenses technically count. The LDS Church is involved in all three. Mostly religious activities, and most of its humanitarian aid is in the form of direct service. By ignoring the value of religious and direct service and only counting humanitarian disbursements the program was being misleading.

And that makes the Mormon Church's corruption perfectly acceptable?

Family members, nepotism is high in the leadership in Utah and all the businesses. Like the construction companies that build the temples. Owned by an Apostle

@@Spawn303 regally? Which apostle?

@@Heartsinmelody it’s really crazy if you look into how wealthy they make themselves and their families while they tell us to volunteer to clean, shovel snow, pay for missions etc.

If they haven't removed their names from the records of the church, they are still members. Half of my siblings are not active in the church, but still count themselves as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They may not be active, but still believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. With every other church, you have those that don't attend church any longer or go to another church, they are probably still counted in those church membership records (Catholic?) If the member haven't removed their name from the records of the church, they are still counted. If someone doesn't want to be counted in the records of the church, they can have their names removed. Then, they won't be counted. My less active families members still would like to be counted or for others it doesn't matter if they are counted or not.

Lets not forget probably not all of them pay their tithing lmao

What would a fake Christian like yourself know?

Exactly

Nelson is a kook. He is right up there with Charlie Manson

Ensign is basically the Church's savings account instead of being the checking account for daily expenses.

@@brettmajeske3525 i really have a hard time believing that. Did you watch 60 minutes last week? Its very unusual to pay monthly expenses out of investment accounts.

@@BlondaLynn I watched 60 minutes, and mostly it seemed to me to be implications without many actual facts. Even the 100B number is pure guesswork. I read through the original "whistleblower report", and he only claimed to have seen a total of 35B. He then assumed if there was 35B he knew about, there had to have been 100B he didn't. In any case the claim was not that monthly expenses were being paid out of investment accounts. I do not know why you think that is what is happening. I have both savings and checking accounts, and over the coarse of an year it is not unusual at all for there to be a transfer between the two accounts. That does not mean I am paying my monthly bills out of my savings.

@@bobareturned The past history influence current behavior.

@@bobareturned I was not being specific, I was explicitly rejecting specificy. Which means while there may be 100B, it could also be 50B or 150B. We don't know so we should be specific about that either.

@@alishabee369 get lost ex lds trolls...smh...follow us around on lds topics trolling....your faithless existence even you hate...so you troll

If this doesn't bother you, then you are indeed brainwashed.

Your good at reading minds and motives. Not!

No one leave the gospel over this. They leave gospel over years then when there is nothing left they remove their name.

​@@jabulani22shepo61 Wrong I know many people literally find any excuse to leave

Not as interesting when you contemplate that paying tithes and offerings is taught as part of the baptismal covenant. People being taught by missionaries are taught this as they are preparing for baptism

And if the poster had actually watched the video, the guest estimated that the Church could last about 16 years if they stopped receiving tithes. ( Assuming no membership growth which isn’t likely)

Not necessarily a correct statement. Your statement likely assumes the world will continue to operate as it has which is unlikely and that the church will not change its behavior such as invest or expand its influence across the globe through software, building more temples, investing in AI, weathering the devaluation of the currency around the world and possible geopolitical storms such as wars and other various turmoil such as Covid 19.

Widows mite disagrees we nearly all his assumptions. 27:03 a bunch of suckers is a strawman and over generalization. Hey Stephen suppose you actually make this an interview with some critical thought questions as apposition to softball statements that fuel his Ted talk sermon cause you currently looking like a fan boy with the best seat in the house. 27:35 you don’t get donations back. Can’t sue for the money back. Statements like these are so interesting. It like your answering a question without stating the inquiry. What could it be. Oh I know. John Huntsman suing the church for miss representing what the tithing was to be used for. Been some big changes in that recently

45:02 not true. The church did not get bad legal advice. I read the SEC report which stated the church leadership defined as the first presidency was advised multiple times and stated shell companies created were created and managed in a specific manner to hide. Common manager names and dummy phone numbers. What you are saying is a dishonest apologetic. Full stop.

The church provides benefits even to members who are not active in any way, as well as many who are not members. Consider the money provided to pretty much anyone in need, just for the asking. Additionally, that money provides humanitarian aid to multitudes of non Latter-day Saints. However it's figured, the amount doesn't go far.

@@winonadavies9201 Actually the vast majority of that is funded by church humanitarian fund. Money which is separate from tithing money or tithing slush or church investments monies. The humanitarian money is funded by membership donation above and separate from tithing. The fund is a pass through account. For the church to claim or allude to they are making a donation is not transparent and not honest. The other icky thing the church does is record the volunteer hours and put a financial value on it then claim that as donation in kind. That is yucky

@@rtharalsonthat is what the tax code allows. I fully support it and love it. I hate most taxes and they go to waste anyways.

My thoughts exactly. He's being very generous with his soft numbers. 15 million or so members? Not likely. Not to mention the other examples he offered such as the schools, they have a specific product in mind, giving out degrees in a relatively short 4 to 8 year span. The students that pay tuition are only there a short time. Church members are there for a lifetime and get what? Eternal Salvation?

@@bonegrubber Excellent point; I can't believe that anyone can think the two are synonymous with one another.

It’s actually less per member likely because each member would be required to pay taxes on the reimbursement.

and yet, all members can benefit...

Of course, everyone benefited, especially the Ensign Peak's church fund and its 100 billion dollars that were never properly reported to the SEC so as not to lose tax advantages.@@kz6fittycent

​@@kz6fittycent and non church members too!

I agreed

Agreed. They might in all of their assets combined.

Probably never happen. He doesn't appeal to their audiences.

​@@jonathanettinger6970I watch and donate to Radio Free Mormon and Mormon Stories. I am part of their audience and I watched this. It is important to get all sides of a story.

@@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049 not 100% true. I have zero interest in hearing Lucifer's side of the story...

@@kz6fittycent that sounds very triblalistic and dogmatic. When you say you don't have to listen to Satan's plan it sounds to me like you are talking about the wizarding world. I think all of this stuff is made up. God, Satan, and Harry Potter. I am agnostic so maybe God does exist but I simply don't have enough evidence that he does.

Not all US citizens pay taxes but receive the benefits of it if they so choose. The same is true for non active members.

When has giving out money with no accountability or prudence done any good? Covid money was such a joke. The same would happen here if just handed out like candy. Billions wasted and hardly any lives improved. The reality too about Covid stimulus is that we are all ending up paying more back than we received. Handing money out is not charitable. It is wreckless and foolish. I hope if you have children you would agree.

My understanding is that the savings/investment arm of the church owns the land that the city creek mall in Salt Lake was built on and makes money from that. I don't know about motels.

What do you mean? There's plenty to critique. Where do we want to start?

I am. Trying to watch this with an open mind. That said. I do have some critiques.

We didn't do this for them. We did this for anyone that might have questions, and have a place to look. :)

The Church donates millions of dollars for disaster relief and humanitarian needs around the world. Check it out.

$150B between 15million members would only be $10k per person which might pay for a small apartment or home for a year. Re-investing that money will bring more help than just giving it away. Besides, the church can help more people by building that wealth rather than just giving it all away. I personally hope they have at least a $1T soon.

$150B could do some but not much in the bigger picture. $150B invested wisely can do a lot more for a longer period of time. Ask any business owner or wise individual that has invested.

Food storage is not intended to wait for the Second Coming, but to help with local on going problems. Every Food Storage guideline published by the Church since the 1960s has taught the principle of rotation. Members are supposed to be "shopping" from their storage when making/planning their weekly meals, and then replace used products. Pres Kimbal gave a talk back in the late 70s that essentially said any who just acquires food storage and then never uses it does not understand the program and might as well not have it. If your parents ignored the prophet when it came to Food Storage, they are like the foolish virgins who had lamps but no oil. If they did not obey, which is what you explained, in how food storage works, why would anyone expect they would listen about any other program? Invariably they would have only listened partially and lost money investing since they only half follow the prophets council.

@@brettmajeske3525 you make good points about food storage

Not sure which teachings you are referencing but I have been taught my whole life to spend less than I make, educate myself (which includes financial education), and invest as well as prepare food storage.

Our church uses it for building churches and obtaining property and church supplies and food our church doesn't need to rely on government or tithing that's why we have local businesses and walfare square with cannery and bakery and dairy and pasta and ect companies to feed members and those in need I even know non members that work at our food bank and they get food for their families today you need lots of money to fly food and help to disaster zones and help those in need god helped Adam and eve learn to hunt we now live in different times and need organizations that provide food and clothes because our government won't always help everyone our church teaches self reliance but there are times that's not enough

Your statement I find fairly weak. $150B will not go far. It might feed 15M families (LDS church has about 17M members) for about a year. If the church continues to invest they can feed many more in perpetuity. Besides, handouts hardly do anything. That is why intelligent companies, churches, charities, and individuals spend more on teaching people how to fish rather then giving out fishes. That being said, the church does both. Are you a member? If you are, I suggest you talk to someone with a little more knowledge of large charities, companies, endowments, etc... The world's problems are not solved by throwing money at them. In fact, it is proven by history that giving handouts is more likely to cause more poverty of mind and body. Another point is that the LDS church believes saving for times of famine which come and go. The current state of the world is really uncertain right now especially when it comes to inflation.

I strongly disagree and am very frustrated by your response. The church is called to bring the kingdom of God immediately, and to let tomorrow worry about itself. And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need-I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith. Therefore, if ye do not remember to be a charitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men. -Alma 34:28,29 Not "to those of our own faith" but "those in need". To suggest that the LDS church would feed its own members is indefensible.

The church does feed others not of their faith. Besides that scripture I believe is more of an individual mandate. So really, there is nothing to defend. I would suggest studying more about finances, the LDS church plus talk to an active believing LDS member that gives more than just 10% of their increase to both believers and non believers.

Also I just did some simple math to estimate how many members the $150B could feed and for how long. I am not suggesting how they should spend their money. I only offered it up as an example of how large but little that money could do for a year. Your opinion is a joke to be honest. There are millions like you that have great ideas on how an organizations money should be spent. Thank goodness you are not in charge.

Whistleblower is a distraction. Truth is you can do more for others if you invest and grow the money for a lot more people for a longer period of time. Anyone calling for the church to give more likely either don’t like the church or don’t understand the law of the harvest or possibly both.

Explain to me what was “shady”

Thanks. Join the chorus of all the other RU-vid comment activist. It’s immoral to save money or is it immoral to spend it all and live close to the line. The LDS church is a lot bigger than $150B. Only if you knew you probably still would be a critic on how some other organization uses its money.

I am not sure what you mean by that. A person doesn't even need to be baptized to get married by the Bishop.

I think he means sealed. But if you don’t believe it why care? Probably cause they don’t like the LDS church.

Nah you just don't like hearing truth. You have an agenda

@@jabulani22shepo61 My agenda is to seek for truth. Both my Stake President and I have read the SEC order and conclude fraud is at play. The SEC order is clear. The BYU dude is another lawyer like Zeezrom, spinning a web for people. The Leadership will not face the truth unless the law does. They will spin it so members are blinded from the truth. Blind faith. Obedience is the first law of....... a dictatorship... yes I thought so...

He has experience a non member would no nothing about our church seriously that was dumb comment this member knows fiences and very good at numbers and is a professor at college so this important for those listening where the money is going and that we pay taxes

That would seem to be evidence to your poor missionary skills than anything else.

@@brettmajeske3525 clearly doesn't have a clue about baptisms in poor countries

When you get off your high horse, let me know. You must have Trump Derangement Syndrome as well.

Defend both the morality, legality, and theology of taxes. Defend your ignorant comments. You cannot. They are indefensible.

It’s amazing how many of your youtube comments show that you are either a closet activist or open activist. Hopefully you don’t fit the mold of most activist that go around telling everyone else to shape up but have serious moral failings worse than those they are trying to tell to change.

Have a happy new year! Can’t wait to hear more of your moral guidance on issues you know nothing about.

This thread really got away from us, I’m afraid. I can’t say I’ve changed my position. But it is one of the great strengths of the Restoration movement, to at least be open to new doctrine as they’re revealed. I will continue to admire and emulate that tradition of restoration and reform.

The Mormon church; saying anything remotely bad will get him excommunicated.