I'm so mad at uou r.n.! 😉. I accidentally fell asleep & woke up to this ch & this lovely man talking about his wife & children, not knowing his wife has passed til I read your comment. (Sweet comment anyway, & I could listen to him talk about his family, too🤗. ).
@Ramman1983 I do believe that His goal in sharing isn't to damage anyone's faith, but to share his own journey and how he came to it. He and his wife likely made the decisions of how to treat together. I think it is good to discuss this on a platform like this.
I grew up in Martin and Jan's ward near Bristol, they and their children used to babysit me as a kid. I also lived with them for a month while they were on the temple presidency and I was a temple worker. They are the most wonderful, beautiful people you could possibly know. I was in SHOCK when I saw Martin on Mormon stories, but this interview has made me so happy. Love you Martin, and Rest in Peace Auntie Jan ❤❤❤
Oh how fun to get such a surprise 😊. Listening to him talk about his his wife & fam made me imagine what a wonderful thing it would have bn to be a part of that. (Not Mormonism- but his family).
I remember how let down I was about Joseph. I used to defend him like I would Jesus. Bad thing I know….but my husband started to discover his truth before me and made comments about him. Comments that almost made me leave. I thought I had married a monster. Thankfully the Holy Spirit kept me safe in my marriage and led me to truth. It came later for me but I remember being led. The church hi jacked truth and twisted it with lies, but God still has a way of saving us if we just stay close to him.
When I was a Mormon, I attended the temple WEEKLY. I participated in the initiatory and the endowment rituals. I knew most of the wording by heart. When I resigned from the church, I was angry because I knew that I had spent hour upon hour upon hour in the temple -- years, really. I wish that I could get that time back (as well as my tithing back)!
The work and dedication to go as often as possible, taking time to drive an hour and then be there for around 3 hrs and then go home, plus tithing and interviews. What a waste
@@jenniferglover9905 I attended the Portland Oregon Temple. I loved going because I firmly believed that I was lending a helping hand in the salvation of the dead. What a TITANIC waste of time and energy! If Jesus is really the Savior of humanity...why would he be so dependent on me (and everyone else in the temple) for the salvation of others...? The God of Mormonism is capricious....
I’m not yet done watching this full interview, but I did want to note that the thing that sticks out to me most is how caring and empathetic Martin is. What an amazing person with such a vast capacity for love and kindness!
I grew up in my childhood ward with Martin and Jan. They were great people and strong righteous examples. I empathise with Martin and the hard year he's had losing his wife and his faith in the church.
I don't know hi, and I send my condolences for his wife and my congratulations for seeing through the lies of the church. Never too late to take the reigns of your life free of the church's indoctrination!
@@CharlieTaylor-wk4wrisn't it amazing how the interviewee did talk quite a bit about Christ and John let the interviewee talk about what he wanted to talk about? Arnt you tired of people using Christ and good messages of him to control others? Wouldn't you allege John as bad guy for using Jesus if he did talk more about Jesus? I guarantee you did this out of fear. And that's ok.
I'm a former sealer. Harold B. Lee bestowed the sealing power on me in 1973. After assigned by my supervisor at The Church Offices in 1975 to research The Church Archives in our work to expand Church Welfare Services globally, I read diaries and journals of the earliest Church leaders and became shocked by what I saw and read. I'd been a sealer and temple ordinance worker for decades. However, for the most part, I agree with this man's testimony, experience, and choices. They've been my own also. Thanks for sharing this interview. I believe in The Gospel of Grace, and in the principles that reach into Eternity: Love, Light, and Truth. The Christ Resurrected is the only way, this I know!
I cannot convey how elated I am to read your testimony. SO MANY who leave LDS reject Jesus Christ & it's heartbreaking. I thank Jesus for your salvation! 😊
@@Anabee3It's like a divorce. Some are still interested in dating, others give up, no longer have faith in relationships. Not exclusive to the LdS church.
Martin, you were always a Christian living the mormon experience. Now you have the wisdom and freedom to live the Christian life without the feeling of judgmental guilt or shame. Congratulations! Freedom at last, YES!
What a special gift I was given today. Martin Lock is a gentle, loyal, faithful, and loving gentleman. No wonder his wife loved him so. And I know just by the way he says her name he loved her with his whole heart. He is a joy to listen to. I know he would have been a delightful leader with faithful works, but he accepts his new found knowledge with wisdom and acceptance that will give him much peace. He has grown. He has moved on to a new chapter with a bit of regret, but in time he will find so much wisdom and peace. I thank him for sharing that with others. There is much to learn from this wonderful man.
I have listened to this podcast twice now. As an avid Mormon Stories Podcast listener, and one who left the church 34 years ago, my heart was so filled with this humble man’s story….someday I will tell mine. Thank you John for making this place for people like me to heal. Even after 34 years (I left at 30) the wound of growing up Mormon in Southern California is still deep.
I, for one, would like to hear your story. I also “left” 40 years ago and still live with the split from family members and general fallout. SoCal native as well.
It runs deep and damaging... not just to the heart, soul and relationships but the stress and damage to the body is deadly. I despise I let them destroy me when I loved them so so deeply
I served in the London South Mission. I loved serving the people in England. It is shocking what is happening in the UK and how the church is trying to turn the narrative and hide the demise. Thank you Martin for speaking out. People need to hear this. 😢
Me too. Birmingham mission as well 14-16. It seemed to be a losing battle there. You could baptize and reactivate all day, but they would fall away very quickly-which was frustrating then, but I’m happy for these people now; hope they are happy.
Martin and Jan have always had a very special place in my heart/childhood. As a kid growing up in the church I would often see them when they would come to Spain in the Summer holidays. They had a house in the country side, with a pool so it was always exciting when my parents said "we're gonna spend the day with the Lock family" . They were one of the first people I remember thinking as a kid: one day I wanna learn their language (English) and be able to speak with them as they were so nice to me. Now as an adult and father (living in the UK), seeing Martin in the podcast has hit me very hard. As I'm in the same position as him. Thank you Martin for sharing your life experience. I really really enjoyed it. Alfonso Martinez Jr (Cartagena)
I have never felt compelled to comment before until now but that was the most touching interview I have experienced. What a man. The depth of his character and love for his wife is profound and inspirational. Should we all be so fortunate as to experience such a love.
I had a friend who was preparing to go to the temple a few years ago. I was a believing but slightly irreverent member at the time. I told her with a smile, "whatever you do, don't fall off the goat!" She was very concerned, and I told her I was just teasing. We went a few times to the temple after that. Earlier this year, I revealed to her that I'd left the church. She let me know that she's also left the church with the response, "I fell off the goat." I laughed so hard.
Martin, thank you so much for voicing what so many of us have been through. When you said that it was 'devastating' to you to find out the Church's teachings weren't true, I felt you to the very core. I also had to follow my integrity and follow the same path. It is not an easy thing to do. You have definitely been my most favorite speaker on Mormon Stories. Again, many thanks and much love...
This is the single greatest interview on MS I’ve seen in these many years. I’m out of Mormonism +40years. I’ve told many a therapist “Mormonism killed God for me”.. After so much study (when no internet existed). This one Man: Martin Lock 3:32:- Brought Jesus alive again for me in this one moment (and I’m an agnostic/yogi/buddhist) no handshakes, passwords, or 10%$… “Grace” is the key! Jesus did it all for Us- even if he was only a man- he’s a man that said “you’re good enough” “I Forgive you”. “Try forgiving others and see how you feel” Martin mentions Satan in temple endowment (Lucifer). IT IS SATANIC. Why?= because having to earn saving is literally Anti-CHRISTian- it’s Lucifer’s plan in Mormon doctrine. Jesus taught Agape (look it up). Thank You Martin Lock, I’ve read the ‘red words’ (Jesus’ words) yet the pain has been too great these 58 years. Through you 🙏 I can finally conceptualize Jesus’ true message: GRACE. Namaste
For by Grace are ye Saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the Gift of GOD: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his Workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them. EPH 2:8-10 God Bless You Java!
I had the privilege of serving a mission at London temple in the visitors centre at the same time as president Lock and his lovely wife, they took me through my endowment and I think they were also apart of my sealing. It shocked me to see him in an episode but also brought me some comfort. I'm grateful to have served with them but I'm grateful as an exmormon to have heard his experience.
Oh my! I’m on the brink of tears. I joined the church in 1973. I was 19. The church was very strong in my state of Georgia. I met and actually converted a man 1974, and we went to the temple outside of Washington DC. the following year. By 1983,’we had 4 children. For many reasons marriage ended in 1988 and it pretty well ended both of our activity in the Church. For me, it was too hard to be divorced and being a member. I truly loved listening to this podcast. Thank you so much!
It's STILL sooooooo hard being a divorced member in the church. Being relegated to a noticably lesser status and credibility just because of my divorce status was a HUGE eye opener for me. I would probably still be a completely active TBM if it weren't for that. This was in 2015. The organization really never learns.
What a truly lovely bloke! A fascinating interview, one of my favorites! My heart hurts for the loss of his sweet wife and his lifelong dedication to an institution that lied to him. He seems very young in spirit and I hope his next chapter is an eyes wide open and joyful one. 🥰❤
Being a 100% active member was like being third class on the Titanic. We were all on the same boat but feeling inadequate around wealthier long time members. The ship is going down but since jumping ship we've never been happier.
Well said. Very much my experience as an”stay at home mother” and married to someone not making very much money. It seemed that all the lawyers, doctors and successful business owners set the standard in our stake.
It's accident; mistake; imperfections and weaknesses. We cannot blame captain whose driving the boat. They are human and carnal. We jumped and survive? Not all jumping survivors. Why are you use title" titanic"? it's my childhood memory hunger of love, always cry, wit my pillow every night.. the only one hope is to repent and be numbered..
@@marilynaustin7488 if your children are on the low end of the house hold income spectrum, will this give them low self esteem? I wonder if growing up in a LDS ward like that where money & status / expectations might have a negative impact on family members, cause them unhappiness or worse ?
I never felt the way some of you felt. Never felt second class. I see some of the members who are wealthier working so hard for us, setting aside work and family responsibilities so they can help others. I know some have quietly, anonymously given to a ward member in need and no one else knows, occasionally I was called into service or I would not know even that. I always felt secure in my position with God. Always known I could not buy his grace and I did not need to, but my good works could be my gift to him, my Savior. I had ancestors who knew brother Joseph personally. They have left their journals, a few of them. Very simple people. Poorly educated. But born before electricity, modern medicine, so many things we have. The world was a puzzlement to them. When others attacked them and they were driven barefoot across the corn stubbled fields running, adult and child, leaving their bloody trail, there were no walkie talkies, let alone cell phones, to help them get aid. They were totally alone and isolated. They were against slavery and their respect for their fellow man was mocked by their neighbors. We cannot understand this world. We lack the understanding of a world where women were totally vulnerable, and a pregnant woman especially so. A world that controlled with pillage and rape. One of our own was so brutally raped that it was only in hushed whispers referred to. Unless a woman was tough as nails in these hash environments at the edge of civilization. Only with a man was a little respite from fear available. Polygamy offered some safety, if chosen. It was much as in the time of Christ when a woman caught in adultery or rape was guilty, always. She was stoned, she wore the scarlet letter, while the other party threw the stone and walked off scot-free. Think of the mountain massacre. We judge them on the big picture we can clearly see. We had no cell phones, no opportunities to negotiate. Fear. What would they do to the innocent. The decision was made and now the world judges, but the world judges on a different set of values and with so much more. How can we, the rich, the knowledgable, those blessed with the history books and the big picture, judge them when they made their decisions given what they had, no communication, the fear of the women. People always make the best decisions based on the information available to them. We talk of being kind to one another, of stepping into their shoes for a day, but do we apply it to the past? I am glad for this good man’s life. So sad for the death of the wonderful woman that stood beside him. No good act will go unnoticed by our Savior when he reaches out to him and says, “come back home to me, blessed child. I’ve waited for so long, come back home.” I wonder if his wife is on the other thin side of the veil praying for him. She must be. May they both be blessed. A beautiful life dedicated to God. No matter where he goes beyond the veil, I am sure he will be happy.
I saw this too. When I was primary President the rage from the women of the doctors was unreal. Apparently a wealthier woman wanted the position. I walked into the primary room one day to see a woman of a doctor screaming and pointing her finger in the face of the bishops first counselor about me being called. The women that I asked to be my helpers began to sabatoge and it turned into such a dark energy. People say this is why I left but it was this experience that got me to ask God deeper questions and ultimately set me free. It is not God running that church. I’ve moved several times and to many states and the fruits are always the same. It’s an evil that runs that place.
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Especially having grown up in the church in the 60s. Martin is right, the church’s purpose then was community and fellowship. Our friends joined the church because the Mormon kids were fun and did a lot of cool things. The boys had competitive baseball and basketball. The girls had volleyball and softball. We were fierce competitors in road shows. We had dance festivals and music fests. Stake and area dances and the Gold and Green Ball that was a bigger deal than school prom. The church WAS our lives. Even baptisms for the dead were a once-a-year social event. We had to drive 2.5 hours each way and we’d have a nice lunch and each do about 50 names. Only problem, some of us didn’t get as lucky as Martin and find the love of our lives because we were Mormon. Some of us had our self esteem sucked out of us by the church in our teens and replaced with shame and guilt. We were pressured way more about marriage back then and some of us felt like we were lucky if ANY temple worthy man wanted to marry us and we made really bad marriage decisions because we were 21 with no better marriage prospects. And when you marry a narcissistic sociopath and have children by them, you pay for that in many ways that affect the rest of your life. Even long after the marriage ends. But still we trudged on, being the best Mormons we could be. Until faced with a crisis of conscience when we stumbled upon the truth about church history and how it evolved into today’s Mormon church. And today many things are better than I thought they would be when I was nearing 70. But I know I’d have had a much easier retirement if I’d made better education, marriage, and child bearing decisions-decisions that were mostly influenced by our Mormon culture. But I wouldn’t trade my post-Mormon life for that of many of my friends and family who are more financially secure but still steeped in Mormonism. And I remind myself of that often.
Martin you are so refreshing! I’m 66 , left the church four years ago when I learned all this stuff. Joined when I was fifteen, the only member in my family. Totally understand the loneliness you are feeling after leaving! Thank you for sharing your story!💕
Dear Martin - your story touched my heart. Your love story is beautiful! If anyone ever asked me if they should leave the church, I would never recommend that road. Because contrary to LDS lore, people do not leave activity in the church because it is an easier path. Leaving exacts a cost. It is not for people who do not know how to embrace change, or who can’t make new friends, or who can’t find joy in other pursuits. Thank you for sharing.
It’s for people who value truth, personal autonomy, and an informed decision for all OUR progeny. I’ve four grandchildren- do I wish them to believe their worthiness of parental love is conditional to obedience?? No Way- that’s the ubermensch concept Hitler brought to our time. And even for Mormon doctrine, it’s the rule-by-submission-without-free will concept of Lucifer the fallen angel.
One of the best interviews I've watched John! Thank you Martin for sharing your story. Your love for people and your community shines thru your words. Truly enjoyed listening to your Mormon story today. Thank you John, and Mormon stories for providing this space. I can't express how healing it is.
Fabulous interview from brother Mr. Lock. His faith was real, his service was real, his heart was in the right place of service. Unfortunately, truth is truth. The LDS church has a cloke over the truth of it's conception and tales. I, like so many others, served in many positions in the auxiliaries. Serving with the thought that my calling was a calling of inspiration. Not true. I filled a spot that needed to be filled. I taught what was in the lesson manual. All the while, not fitting in with the members because I questioned, i had questions that i was told to, " just have faith" Just another sheep....no more....
After leaving the church, I felt I had to go back to long lost friends and apologize and make amends. I felt I needed to repair relationships cause I put the church first even before my father and family. I feel I fixed those frienships, told them i loved them, shared drinks and solidified those relationships based on real things. Loved this episode, thank you.
I'm British and have never had any connection with LDS. It was so interesting to hear Martin's experiences as a fellow Brit. Thank you for sharing your views and your story, especially about your beloved Jan. I lost my Dad to MND last year and my thoughts are with you.
Thank you for sharing your story and providing truth to our active LDS families. Leaving is terribly difficult and can be lonely. But walking hand in hand with Jesus Christ is the definition of happiness.
What an amazing interview! It was really valuable and inspiring to listen to Martin's life experiences. I'm 32, I've been born "in the church" and all of my close family members still go. It's been 10 years that I left, after a long time researching while still a member. Listening to him and relating to his truth crisis brings some comfort to us who are younger and still developing authority in our environments. It wasnt a "young rebel" phase, it wasnt "influence from the enemy", it was in fact a search for truth, for coherence, for integrity, something that doesnt have any relationship with age. And relating to other people's ways, reaffirming that we are not alone in all those feelings while in these ways, it brings peace and a sense of purpose. Our stories have to be shared. Thank you John and Mormon Stories crew for all the good you bring us!
Martin made an excellent point that the main purpose of the temple was likely to provide a mechanism and venue for secret polygamous marriages. I’d never thought of that before, but it makes so much sense! And then the other perks of having a super secret/sacred thing for people to aspire to etc.
I'm nearing the end of this interview and I'm even more smitten by this wonderful man! Thank you John for inviting him on-hes and absolutely pleasure to listen to!
Martin, thank you so much for sharing your story. This was one of the best Mormon stories I have ever heard. Your relationship with your wife is absolutely beautiful and something most people can only dream of.
What a story. Lovely to hear that he has come to understand that the grace and sufficiency of Jesus is all that is needed. Wishing him all the best as he moves forward.
I’m in my 70’s, during the pandemic I went thru the same experience, I feel the same way. I feel cheated, nothing is the way I was I learned thru my life in the church 😢
The love story is truly beautiful. It’s fascinating to see how all of us are connected. It’s my great grandfather, grandfather and father who served in England and helped to grow the church there during the 60’s and 70’s (Joseph Fielding, and my grandfather, his son, as a mission president in Manchester, and my dad serving there). And now I’m out with 5 children after coming through Hyrum Smith and all the Mormonism in my past. It’s been a heartbreaking journey but there is no other way.
The first time I went to the temple, I didn’t realise that you had to pay to rent clothes… so I was super stressed because I had to wait for someone to bring me my wallet. So instead of thinking about Jesus and feeling relaxed it was stress and money…. Really?? With all the tithing payed and they are still asking for a few dollars for clothing rental. Looking back it was so ridiculous
@@Gree263 If you are doing baptisms, you might borrow a white jumpsuit . If you don't have a white dress or white pants and shirt of your own or slippers you would rent those items for the main ceremonies.
Wow, sorry no one told you. The rental was to pay for washing the clothes and provided jobs for handicapped and for poor women. It went to a good cause. There are also other paid jobs in the temple. Keeping our temples pristine takes a few people to oversee the nightly cleaning crews. Hired are often young people needing a job and employment for college. I miss being able to get an inexpensive, high quality meal at some of the temples. Again, the handicapped, the single moms, the older saints were given employment. So sorry, again, that you did not know. It must have been quite embarrassing for you.
The first time I entered the temple, the first thing I heard was a cash register. Such an affront to everything I was expecting or hoping for. Killed it. All I could think was how Jesus chased the money lenders out of the temple..Major red flag. First thing on the shelf. Out now 20+ years thankfully x
I understand his pain and disappointment towards the church. It broke me when I found there truth. I cried and asked why would they lie to so many good people? But now I know the truth and feel free.
This is the best guest you have had on, that I have seen in your shows. He is someone I could so relate to. I feel so better after watching this, that I am not crazy, I have absolutely every reason to believe the new things I have learned these last several months. I was so confused by the way I have felt about the church for the last ten plus years, and the bad experiences I had/have all make so much more sense now. I believe and have faith in Christ, so ask for God's blessings for you and those like minded, who struggle with the hurt, shame, the disgust, the manipulation from a belief system that consumed the majority of my lifetime, family members lives, and all of the sacrifice, the commitment, the betrayal to family and friends in the name of the LDS church. Shame, shame, shame on those who knew the truth and still held the secrets to themselves in God's name, I can only think, how evil; all their filty lies, and knowing I am not alone here.
As a fellow UK citizen, would love to have a chat with this lovely man. I don't want my records removed as it's been a huge part of my life, but I have my issues with it. And the thing is, he talks about how I feel about sacrament meeting. I want to go back but I just CAN'T with what I know now. I can't sit there and pretend to agree. It's heart breaking.
Oh Martin thank you so much for your story! Our journeys are all somewhat unique and different and it’s always so interesting to me to see the various directions it leads. To hear you speak of your sweet wife was so beautiful.
Wow! It has been enlightening to listen to Martin today. I have long held doubts about Joseph Smith but because I believed The BOM was true, put those doubts on the back burner. What now for me, can I be as courageous as Martin? Where do I start, what literature should I read? Help. I live in Northern Ireland and was baptised at age 13, now I’m 75. I’ve made excuses for and believed a lie all these years.😢
I am so greatful for God opening your eyes. My encouragement to you is read the bible. And only the bible ! Do not believe the "added" and "new "doctrine of the mormon church. And most importantly say what you just said to us to God. The true god- jesus christ.who was and is and is to come. One member of the holy trinity. God the father son and Holy spirit. And ask him to help you and open your eyes to the truth and he will!! Look at romans - we are saved by faith in Jesus christ alone not by our works Galatians 1:6-12 No Other Gospel I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
And hopefully the honesty. Someday maybe TBM like you can be the heroes who can acknowledge the lies, fraud, abuse and destruction of the early deceptions and let an honest Christian denomination emerge. IOW NOT the ONLY true church (which is red light Hitler style narcissism) but, another community who embraces their culture through the love of a Man/God (doesn’t matter) offering GRACE.- namaste
@@jacoblewis2961 I believe that this man was genuine, and I trust and respect his experience. I’ve heard a lot (almost everything) against the church, but my experience and faith is based on things a lot deeper than what I’ve heard. That’s the best way I can explain it.
@@missedinformationpod I can respect that, in my own experience I cannot overlook a lot of the facts that he discussed especially about the history and it's founded Joseph Smith. For instance the book of Ambraham is not the book of Abraham and the translation is not even close to what is says. Yet the church has presented it as cannonized doctrine! It's based completely off of pure bullshit...
Martin is a wonderful, wonderful man; thank you John for this lovely interview. I just hope that Bart Ehrman (a biblical scholar and now an atheist) doesn't destroy Martin's faith in Jesus, because it is beautiful, and worth hanging onto.
This is the most interesting and informative interview you’ve done, John Dehlin. Martin Lock is a wise and knowledgeable man who knows the truth about the deception of the Mormon church. It confirms once again to me that I made the right decision to leave the church 3 years ago.
Compulsive viewing & listening, what a totally warm, honest, beautiful, engaging man Martin is. His love for his wife shone through. It's sad that he felt betrayed by the Church he served so faithfully, but he is being true to himself & thats the most important thing. I wish him all the best. Wonderful interview John.
I served in Weston-super-Mare during my mission in the late eighties but never in the Bristol area. The part of the interview where Martin regrets not spending enough time with his children triggered memories of my father and his church service. He asked if I felt his divorce from my mother and working all the time had a bad effect in my childhood. I told him that I was most resentful of him always being away from home fulfilling his callings and his involvement in church activities. Our ward took so much advantage of him. As a TBM, he really didn't say much about my response.
@@guymcdude5634 I agree 100%. If this man ends up applying the same logic when researching the “truth” of Christianity and the Bible as he did with the LDS faith and BofM. He ain’t out of the woods yet, not by a long shot.
@@chadwickgordon5817 It was never about the truth of Christianity, Christ is the truth, not Christianity. Of course there’s mess in Christianity, whichever group of Christians claims to have possession of true Christianity. Whatever man touches, there’s some corruption to it but it’s another thing to know the truth Himself and become more like Him as you live your “pilgrim’s progress”.
I think what he's trying to say is he was deceived and while he was deceived through no fault of his own, he deceived others. There is no ignoring that feeling or coming back to the church from that knowledge
One of the hardest things is knowing you exposed your children to such toxic dogma. Also as Mike said, the time taken from relationships with non member family.
If it's any consolation, when I discovered the church wasn't true (in my freshman year at BYU), and in the years afterward when dealing with the feelings of betrayal, I never once got upset or felt deceived by the teachers I had in Sunday School or MIA, or the patriarch who gave me my patriarchal blessing. Or any bishop, or my parents who became converts when I was two. I felt betrayed and deceived by *Joseph Smith*. Leaving the church felt like a painful divorce, where I had to spend years "peeling the onion" trying to decide what to keep and what to toss aside from the indoctrination I'd received. We, as members, were all deceived by a con man. How were we to know? But please know... I never blamed any member of the church for that deceit. I blamed the man who laid the foundation of lies.
Martin, thank you! As John played devil's advocate you answered his questions with the most logical and lovely responses! It's been more than 40 years since the church and I parted ways but I have only in the last 2-3 years listened to and read many of the sources you've mentioned. I knew it was wrong back then but just didn't know why. Back then my father had given me a copy of the Miracle of Forgiveness. Bad, bad book!!!!! I came inches from ending myself to stop feeling the pain of loosing the connections I once had and erase my evil self. But folks like you, John, Bill Reel, RFM, Nemo, Alyssa Grenfell...all of you bring sanity and sweet reason to this person who has felt so conflicted for so long. May you see that lovely wife again. I fear my anger and disgust with the church and it"s leaders who knowingly lead all ASTRAY has soured my belief in anything spiritual. But even that is okay. I look forward to an eventual eternal sleep. As I've since told my believing father, if there is an afterlife, God and I will have a very serious talk where I accuse him of being the worst parent and manager in the universe!
Thank you Martin for coming on Mormon Stories. I really appreciated your perspective. Your kindness and grace comes out in your story. I think you are a fine example of a Jesus follower. hugs for the loss of your wife😢.
Non Morman from Southern Ireland. So interesting to hear this and do go look up Irish History John!!!!! I'm facinated with your history so go look at mine!!!! Wonderful man lovely insights. CC. S o enjoy your podcasts totally fascinating insights into the human condition. And at least the ornate Catholic Churches welcome visitors and their spires ain't quite so controversial or "sacred". Ha ha go Nemo!!!!!We have a troubled and rich history and today the Catholic Church hasn't the personal intrusive and state control it had in the past. And in looking at the Mormon Church it seems amazing that 21st century people can be so stuck and brainwashed in a very blinkered very 19th century view of life and religion.
Yes!! Everyone and anyone is welcome in our Catholic churches and cathedrals. And they are all so beautiful and unique, reflecting the culture of each location. When we visited the San Diego LDS temple open house I was so disappointed in the interior design and artwork. It’s all very homogenized.
@@MaryKayZolezziThe LDS Church is like a franchise. The local units are run by cookie cutter methods such as handbooks. They are even planning to produce a new hymnbook where each number indicates the same song globally, so in France they will have the same song translated into French, etc. Similarly, the temples are now modular, reusing the same design elements for each temple.
I worked for the Las Vegas Temple from beginning to end. I loved every minute of it eve though I felt discriminated many times. I (we) used to get paid very little even after getting married, having tow children and working there more 10 years. We used to have meetings with some Apostles and General Authorities and they always used to tell us that “The Lord” was very pleased with our work and He knew that we didn’t get paid enough money but our eternal blessing and the special protection we and our families were receiving from heaven were priceless. Eventually my ex wife had to start working because we couldn’t even pay our bills. We used to go to the temple every week and sometimes I used to 3 times a week, before I started my shift. Not to mention I’d even volunteer to stay overtime on Saturday mornings to help with the youth with baptism for the dead. Sorry for a long story. I have so much I’d like to say. Thank you for your time.
Martin is such an amazing man. His story is so interesting, and hearing him talk about his lovely wife Jan, you can see the love radiate across his face!
When I lived in London in 1976, the bishop of the London ward tried to fondle me when I met with him. I was in London with BYU semester abroad. Already graduated from college. So I had lots of free time. I can’t remember why I met with him. I hurried and left his office in tears. Didn’t tell a soul. Our group spent 6 weeks traveling through Europe and when we returned to London, we found out he had been excommunicated. The new bishop was American. He met with me and asked if the bishop had tried anything with me. He was very kind. Wanted to make sure I was okay. This former bishop had been doing that to several women. It just confirmed my distrust in bishops for many years to follow.
This interview will undoubtedly be one of the most memorable. It's inspiring to see members of my generation, Gen X, and the Baby Boomers being brave enough to live their truth.The church is losing precious souls that money can't buy, and Martin is one of them. Thank you, Martin, for sharing your experience and speaking up. You have no idea how much you've helped me. Thanks to John for the insightful questions and observations. You consistently bring the truth in a church often surrounded by less than truthful leadership.
This is pinnacle Mormon Stories right here. I love those episodes that involves former GAs and former high ranking mormon leadership people because of their insight of being in and out of the mormon faith.
Thank you Martin for telling your story. Your love of the members, the gospel and your beloved wife shown brilliantly. Your pain and sadness is identical to mine. Your words of wisdom have been documented and will help thousands. Thank you.
In relation to the temple, my wife and I are both converts. She at 13, me at 26. We were married in the San Diego temple in 1999. Her family flew from England, my family drove 10 hours from Northern California. Guess what we did? Yep they all had to wait outside and only be there for family photos. Of course we told ourselves we were doing the right thing. They were hurt for years because of that. I only realized how wrong that was about a year ago. I've been doing an apology tour to all of them for excluding them. Oh how wrong we were. So messed up.
LOL. Curious if you ever leaned toward another religion. No judgment. I left religious beliefs many years ago and find it freeing. For me, living a life of curiosity, integrity, compassion and community eliminates the hell, fire, and brimstone. Being free of mind controlling (this way or the Highway) and the big grift $$ felt most freeing.
What a wonderful man! Who clearly married a wonderful woman and raised a beautiful family. You will see her again! I hope you have no regrets - this life is a school, we learn and grow every single day. God bless you and your family ❤
i think it wise to remember Johns last words here "Be kind" Especially in the stream chat. I think the mod went a bit to rough with our faithful visitor today. And it would be best if we remember to not treat them as so many of them have treated us, did treat us, still treat us to this day. If this community is to grow, especially as a safe space for people questioning and leaving the church, we should do better at creating that environment, or they will stay in their perceived safe space- which will not be here with likes of us. i think there is a happy medium we can find between saying our piece with honesty and calling out the things we disagree with. We should try to find that balance, in hopes we do not alienate each other and others. thats all. Great pod today fam. You are all beautiful people thanks for being here.
I have a feeling another reason for the temple boom might be a way for the church to deal with the money hoarding issues without giving it away to charity. Real estate is one of a few legal avenues the wealthy have to move money around.
They learned how to do that from the Scientologists. The Co$ does the same thing building all their buildings. The members think that with all the new buildings, it “proves” the church is growing
Don't forget about all of the free publicity benefiting proselytizing efforts gained by just the existence of a huge beautiful temple in rural areas! Even local city councils in turmoil about it are great free publicity for The Church.
Thank you for this episode. I was raised by parents that were seriously divided. My Mother espoused the LDS church to us. My father was not able to join her in this, in fact he had been an active member of a non denominational Christian church. He was terribly upset by his pastor having an affair with another member. I don’t know if it’s true because I never heard it from him. My Mother or his Mother started this rumor and we never heard the word God out of his mouth. I did here him say regarding my beginning going to AA to stay sober. He apparently knew that AA means believing in a power greater than oneself, and over coffee he ,”it’s ok to believe in God”. I was so stunned I couldn’t speak. I regret that I wasn’t able to respond to him because I might have been able to have a conversation about God with him. So thankfully I never got hooked into the Mormon church. Over the years I had missionaries call on me and when I questioned them about the belief they had that polygamy would be practiced in heaven. They said “God would not have anything in heaven that would make us unhappy “. I ended up living in Bountiful and Salt Lake City and eventually was excommunicated. I also had found, in a used book store, in Logan, Utah. The place my mother’s mother came from! That book helped me so much and I passed it on to my older sister, who had been a believer, and it helped her tremendously. Thank you again, in Christ’s name.
The book was No Man knows my History, Fawn Brodie. I still own my copy. It saved me from even considering Mormonism to be legit. I was living in Bountiful Utah at the time. My neighbor warned me “ they will check under your kitchen sink to see if you are hiding coffee” lol.
❤️ this interview! Really hit home, in many ways. Truth opens your mind and heart! I felt I was in prison while I was forced to be involved in this church for decades. After leaving, I finally feel happy and free!
What a lovely man and full credit to him for leaving the church once he discovered the true history of it rather than ignore the awful history and carry on as if everything was fine. Wish there were more like him.
What a great story. Thanks for interviewing Martin. There arent a lot of us that have remained in Christianity after leaving. This is one of my favorite episodes.
John, thank you for all you do for this world. You and Margy are the best of the best. Hugs from S.W. Louisiana. I lived in Utah for 11 years and wish I was there. Spent hundreds of hours in. Katy and Houston...... but Utah is home. God bless you and your family.💜💚💛🌻
Often I feel that people on this podcast think that all Christian denominations make truth claims, etc. I appreciate that Martin Lock explained that not all churches are like that. Thank you.
Former Methodist here, now an atheist but not because of my former faith. When I was a believer, the Methodists were transparent with their finances and donated 30% of proceeds to listed needy causes. Thank you for this episode gentlemen and team.
Very telling story. Prior to getting my temple recommend, I liked to sit in the waiting area at my local temple and read the BOM. Once I was approached by a worker and was asked of my intentions. Told him my story and he walked away. Fast forward a few months and I met the same man. It was the Temple President. He said he'd never had converts come and pray/read before. So, I had an impression.
I also forgot to mention, the President was the one that met me at the veil. At the time, I thought nothing of it....but learned later on that was a special thing. Anyone know why?
What a genuine, sweet, humble man! I enjoyed Martin Lock’s story so much. I could relate to the betrayal that he felt. I felt so betrayed by the Church and was hurt by learning that the “anti-Mormon” literature given to me, was not “anti” at all, but the factual history of the Church. It hurt learning all of the facts about Joseph Smith but I am better off for it now. I have my faith in Christ and I am good. I love sharing with LDS friends when they are open to truth.
@@mormonstories I joined the Jehovah's Witnesses and have never looked back and they report their active members every year, Rather than reporting people who are registered members. They report people who are actively in the door to door ministry, attending the meetings and they are up to 9 million..plus attending every week...Also , they persevered in catholic ireland and catholic, protestant countries and muslim countries and have continued to grow steadily every year, year in year out. Even RFMs brother is a witness, they have the truth, and have stood all manner of persecution, No matter what Catholics and protestants think of them. It's these people who are in the wrong and the witnesses who have the truth.
@@leecooper3852examine your last sentence and then look up one of the huge components that signifies you may be in a cult. If by persecution you mean having the door slammed in your face, you are correct, you all have survived that very well!
@kristyseley8409 while the mormons were killing one another in world war 2 and in all the wars that have been going on since, as these people join the military, and that is unchristian, First century, Christians would not join the Roman military Or the militaries of the nations and were persecuted because of it, Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to join the military on the basis that it is unchristian and not scriptural... For that they are persecute d by the governments of the world...
Boy do I agree about the mistake the church has made in getting rid of all those cultural events the church use to have- we barely have any activities anymore- and what few we do have very little effort is put into them. Church nowadays is pretty much attend Sunday meetings and that is it.
I met my wife on my mission, she from New Orleans and me from San Diego, I was her zone leader for 10 months. She was a district leader over a sister’s district. That was in 1979 and we’re still together 43 years later. It’s a fascinating story, our journey together, which involves us leaving the church.
