I can attest to this, i tuned my 10.5 to soft when i got my can and it won’t cycle without the can. I turned my best rifle into an unreliable POS and ended up just dealing with a little extra gas to reliabilities sake. I always thought a lot of people take that ejection pattern way too serious or misunderstand it altogether. It’s my understanding that the gassing chart was meant to help diagnose an issue with a problem rifle. If it barely dribbles the brass out then you should look for a loose gas block or gas loss somewhere else and too far forward maybe too large a gas port. But hey i could be wrong.
@@StanRevers i have no experience with flow through cans but I’d just say don’t get to caught up in “tuning it” unless it’s for like competition or something like that. For a gun you want to protect your home with a little extra gas is a good thing. Make sure to check out your brass before and after you put on the can, if your brass looks similar to how it did before you put the can on you’re more than likely good. If the brass is all dinged up after shooting suppressed then you may need to slow it down a bit with a heavier buffer. Just don’t get too crazy with the tuning unless you plan on keeping that rifle suppressed 100% of the time.
This is why I love DD. People always complain about them being overgassed. I reply stating that they’re not overgassed but rather combat gassed. They were made for adverse conditions not cleaned well lubed 70 degrees and sunny. Phenomenal video bro. Just subscribed.
@@operatorsanonymous1741 Yeah, its kinda funny - In my experience (15 year instructor and gun store manager), most people who buy Daniel Defense guns do it because they heard they were the best. Most people who buy BCMs buy them because they know they run like a scalded dog. Not saying DDs dont, just a remark on the general type of consumer buying the products.
@blackout.ghost718 if you say so. I currently own a 16” super duty and have owned a ddm4v7 which I then sold because I believed it to be overpriced. I like the super duty but still prefer my bcm over it. The bcm shoots 0.6” groups with the right ammo when Im on my A game, better than Ive been able to do with the geissele so far. ive put probably 9-10k rounds through the bcm without a single malfunction that wasnt purposely induced for training purposes. best carbine I’ve owned, hands down.
I don't know if anyone caught this, but at the b roll in the end while one is moving the other is shooting. However as soon as the support by fire has to reload the maneuver element immediately stops and starts shooting. That's a professional move right there. Good video and even better training man.
@FatMike86 Yeah, we got a lot of good shooters in our group. Everything from prior Marine Corps and MARSOC as well as Naval, Air Force, and Army guys. One of our members is a SERE guy and is prior 11B. Another is a Corpsman who is one of the instructors for seal teams on medical. Also several civilians in the mix.
I'm a little jealous tbh. My boys are a little green and untrained but the mindset is there. I feel like a drill sergeant teaching basic fire and maneuver at times. Keep up with the videos and training. I definitely recommend your channel to the boys for some good info. You should consider some videos on tactics. Squad formations, react to contact, squad attack, react to ambush, etc Either way keep it up. I'm subscribed and 2 thumbs up from me
I agree with your “formula.” I even run the h2 sprinco blue in sbr’s. Have never had premature wear or parts breakage on well over 15k rounds across multiple rifles.
This makes even more sense nowadays as modern suppressors shift to reduced back pressure designs. This mitigates a lot of the overblown gripes around recoil, ejection pattern, fouling, and wear.
Your B-roll shows why vertical grips are underrated. They're super useful for anchoring your rifle in certain barricades. Having the ability to lean into the stock and use the grip to put your weight against the barricade reduces recoil better than any muzzle brake or undergassing can
I put five VLTOR A5 buffer systems on three DDs (V1 x 2 & M4A1) and two Colts (SOCOM & 6940) to mitigate some of the wear and tear on the internals and found the DDs' perceived recoil to be darn near that of a DD M4V5 mid-length...YMMV
This is how I see it. Pick the lightest .223 stuff you shoot and get it to lock back on last round and eject at the 4. Now, the m16 was designed to throw brass at the 4 with m193, which is considered full 5.55 charge. If you have a dedicated suppressor with a 4 o'clock no can, it should be good. Although if it's past the 230-3 without a suppresor eith m855/m193, then it's overgassed. Which a little overgassed never hurt anyone, but the bolt. Clean and lube your gun and make sure it locks back with soft ammo. That's as reliable as you can ask from the platform. "Combat gas" is bullshit marketing term made by companies who don't want to warranty people using shit ammo and having stoppages. The "Combat gas" or the m16/m4 is a very soft shooting gun compared to many commercial offerings because they know minimum M855 is going to be shot through it. The ammo is half the battle when it comes to making the Ar-15 platform reliable.
Combat gassing is properly gassed. It's not a marketing term it's a port size to get the most reliability out of everything. Time and again we have dudes out that "tuned" their guns. And they fail. A 20in barrel isn't the same as a 10.5 14.5 ect. You can't measure other barrel lengths to It's standard cause they have different dwell times, gas system lengths ect.
Your experiences pushed me not to down gas my sionics 11.5 with .070 port and also convinced me not to feel bad for getting a "cheap" turbo k. I still need to rtv my CH but I'm really happy how it runs with a vltor a5h2 and sprinco green. People need to stop trying to make "do work" guns be gamer guns.
13.7 BA mid length with carbine spring and h2 buffer. Ejection at 4-4:30. Put a dead air sandman s on it with the 30cal cap, 3 o'clock. Runs like a dream. Very little gassing to the face with radian sd.
I have a few older Bushmasters that were very over gassed and I just put a Lantac dragon muzzle break,a full auto profile bolt carrier,cmc flat trigger and heavier spikes tungsten buffer and they run great with a perfect 3-4 o’clock ejection pattern! I haven’t gotten into suppressors yet but hope to soon!
I hate over gassed rifles but almost every company does it now. They seem like the company expects everyone to fire 2000 rounds of tula not clean there weapon and only do it in negative degree weather and thats why their gas port sizes are ridiculous large
@rockerdude8000 chances are you don't understand what overgassed is. And if you're one of the ones "tuning" your rifle, it's likely yours, like many others we've had out, will fail when ran hard.
Its more likely that most companies are overgassing their rifles because they dont want to continuously deal with complaints about their rifle not cycling cheap under pressured ammunition. Some companies are genuinely trying to make combat ready guns, but others are just trying to avoid customer service nightmares.
If you do the legwork you can properly gas an upper with a riflespeed gas block to work suppressed and unsuppressed in extreme cold and extreme heat temperatures. You just add another oil point that you maintain at the same intervals as your BCG. That’ll be my route with any serious use rifle. It also removes the gas tube blow out failure point that M4s had in overextended gunfights.
@@operatorsanonymous1741 riflespeed heat failure point is well beyond what a automatic rifle can produce. 2000 degrees. The M4 gas tube is 1900 and directly gets heat transfer while the spring doesn’t. If it’s a worry you can run dual overlapping wave spring to almost double its temp resistance. The riflespeed gas tube is also straight so theirs less gas friction which means less heat transfer from friction. It’s also thicker. Basically everything you mentioned is a nulled point in this case.
@ShepherdOfTheSilkies they're welcome to send me one to try, but I've yet to find an adjustable gas block that holds up. Small springs and detents always fail. It's not melting that's the problem. It's reaching temps where springs lose their elasticity. It's carbon gumming up the system to failure. It's corrosion and flash rusting from the hot, humid environment. So no, it's not a moot point.
@@operatorsanonymous1741 2000 degrees Fahrenheit is that failure point. It doesn’t melt at that temp, not much does. There’s also no small springs. Again every complaint that you had is not applicable to the riflespeed adjustable gas block. If it’s rusting the barrel is rusting, if it’s melting the barrel is melting, if it’s failing the gas rings have failed. I know metallurgy, and I know design you can trust when I tell you, it is moot. For you to do that level of testing to cause a failure you’re gonna have to have a whole throwaway rifle that is built well, even then the barrel is more likely to bend than that gas block failing. there’s also other RU-vidrs who have done meltdown test with them and they outlast everything else on the gun.
@@operatorsanonymous1741 I went ahead and found a reputable video of it outlasting a barrel. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BA_O7uLiAVA.htmlsi=bFWxQ5kZ6kqFw6B3
Thank you sooo much for the helpful video, I’m new to the suppressor world and you answered everything I was going through my Springfield Saint Edge pistol , you earned a new subscriber
I'm still a fan of using known lower pressure loads such as PMC bronze in controlled environments as an analogue for how a hotter load in a less ideal environment may run the gun. On that note, I found it surprising that a bcm 14.5mid with a vltor A5H4 with their steel rifle spring (not sprinco green) was still cycling .223 pressure pmc bronze, ejecting at 4 o clock (sprinco extractor and ejector springs) and locking back on empty even when the rifle is loosely held. Winchester 5.56 m193 was ejecting at mostly 3 and occasional 4. Stepped the weight down to A5H3 for a little extra leeway since my favorite federal fusion msr loads felt about as hot as pmc bronze, and ejected at 4 as well; for all I knew, federal fusion msr is as close to choking the gun as pmc bronze if stuff gets dirty, and there is no heavier A5 buffer weight to test the limits. The A5H4 buffer lives in an 18" rifle gassed setup from white oak now since it still cycles pmc bronze the same way, but my preferred load for that is 5.56 pressure, and ejects at 3 o clock. This is all unsuppressed mind you. Vltor's A5 system is... quite something when it comes to tuning when I can get away with their heaviest ~7oz buffers like this.
I have some questions that I hope you can answer. The first one being what has system are you running on your rifles? And the second being what kind of Bcg are you running and what finish do you recommend(nib,phosphate,np3 etc). Thanks for the informative video. Really changed my thought process on ejection pattern and I bought the recoil spring and buff you recommended.
@justaguypassingthrough4188 gas system is a standard block. BCM on my 10.5 Rosco on my 14.5. Both guns are running Rosco BCG's with Sprinco 5 coil extractor springs and enhanced power ejector springs. As far as finishes Nitride are what mine are. That phosphate and chrome are what I recommend. Stay away from Np3 and NiB. Also you wanna run Sprinco Blue buffer springs. I recommend that as the standard. More spring tension that'll help the system power through adverse conditions when closing.
Thanks for the video. I like to go with a mid length gas tube and a carbine buffer. I mean it's a gun and I need it to function with as many kinds of ammo as possible
If suppressed and unsuppressed use is desired a flow through can might be the best bet. Going to help parts durability, prevent the necessity of parts swaps to run either and minimize the sway between under and over gassing with the two setups
Except those are piston systems which aren't even remotely as reliable. Adj gas blocks on DI fail prematurely. The parts in gas blocks are small and all that heat/gas constantly bombarding them wears them out quickly.
Man, I like your knowledge sharing, good job! Also, I heard you say on one of your other videos that you live in NE Florida; not sure where, but I’d like to train with you if you provide classes. I’m much older than you, but I’ve been getting back into guns/training after being in motorcycle racing as a hobby. I’m an old jarhead from the 80’s (3/7) and most of my trading was Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, Bridgeport and Okinawa. Sprinkle into deployments as well. I was a peace time Marine though. The one thing I did take from the Corps was to stay in shape though, so I think I might be able to keep up with you young bucks. Don’t know until I try. Anyway, let me know if you do any training or know places to go that aren’t too far away? Thanks.
@@HWG-wm8ld Comeon man, Really. This is why we as a 2A community can't come together fully. Someone has to start putting the other down for something. What im seeing here is guys and maybe gal's out training and staying prepared while videoing it with tips on how to keep a well working rifle. So who cares what the are wearing!! Who cares if its for show!! Bottom line is, we will all need each other is that time comes. I would be pleased to defend my community with this guy if he lived by me! United we stand, divided we fall. Stop being the reason we are falling in the 2A space.
What can was you running, T3 or Turbo K? I been moving this way lately on my builds. I was a big adjustable gas block guy. But I don't have can's for every weapon. So if I had to use one that is missing the can I will have to adjust it first. Plus I also have to worry about something else failing. It was all the cool kids was running, and I jumped on that boat for a while. I agree with you 100. Good to see a group out training btw. Good day
That's what I'm talking about that's not Hollywood that's real deal I enjoyed that that was cool music and everything and y'all contact cover that was good that was good
Just built up an 18” for my grandpa, BA fluted spr profile with an a5 buffer system h2 green sprinco. Runs good and ejection pattern is uniform but I might need to open up the gas port a tad for when it gets down to freezing temps in winter.
Came in here assuming I was going to have to bitch and moan about this being incorrect info. But nah man you're right on the money for a suppressed/non suppressed set up. good shit
This is the solution. But it's early imo as one of the biggest reasons for a suppressor is signature reduction. At the moment I'd recommend a hybrid flow through/baffle can over strict flow through as all the Huxworks cans I've used are flame throwers.
I like Rosco and recommend them. Build it out with BCM receivers and a BCM MCMR rail. If you wanna buy complete an 11.5 BCM upper. Sprinco blue and min H2 buffer though I'd give H3 a try.
@@operatorsanonymous1741What mount are you using for your turbo K ? I’m using the flash hider mount that came with the can but I’m thinking of moving the can to another gun and getting a new muzzle device for it
14.5 Upper: BCM receiver BCM 13" MCMR rail BCM Charging handle 14.5 Rosco Bloodline Sauce pack Lower: Both are SBR Aero's but I recommend a complete BCM lower and replace the spring with a sprinco blue/H2 buffer and the trigger withba Geissele SSA-E. 10.5: BCM Upper Geissele Mk4 rail 9.3" 10.5" Rosco Bloodline Sauce pack Lower: same combo but with an H3 buffer.
@operatorsanonymous1741 that's the reason I asked ... I've had two attempts to take my money from fraudulent individuals from that group. Is there someone in particular you'd recommend?
@@operatorsanonymous1741 i ran mine at 4-430 on 14.5 mid length. Shoots soft af but wont lock back on last round using under powered ammo. (Unsuppressed).
@@operatorsanonymous1741 nice! I've gotten probably 4k through mine and it's gained 2 oz.! What attachment method are you using? I use the YHM ratchet devices but I love how short yours is, my system adds a good 1-1/4" to the length..
@@TheMikeshannon mostly for pice of mine and to keep it as reliable as I can if guy is just setting around the camp fire or killing a couple hours before you might need to use it and your not doing anything clean it to kill boardom give it a good oil job after you get it good and clean
@@operatorsanonymous1741 News to me. I have 3 with adj gas blocks. I work part time at a gun shop. I reload and shoot regularly. 1 is surpressed I hunt with my RRA. Not a single issue
@basemandog yeah, I've heard that before.. Dudes say that that run them, and it's always the same "well I never had any issues before" when they fail after running them through my regimen.
vltor a5 with a5h2 buffer on a mk18 and an a5h1 and a bcm 14.5, beat the shit out of both of them, and they run great. But I would go overgassed all day vs undergassed. Dope video dude! subbed!
