My biological mother is a prominent example of NPD and she tried to teach me how to lie and manipulate for financial gain since the early age. Boy am I glad I am away from her permanently.
When I think of people being great at manipulating I am reminded of a man I hired long ago to do minor work on a gutter. I paid him $200 and he took off on me and I never saw him again and had to get someone else to do the work. I remember thinking at the time this guy was not a good guy but I over road the internal warning and learned a lesson. I say all this because I think people are not as great at manipulating as we think but that they find people who want to believe their baloney.
You know an abusive parent torches a child's life. Not an excuse for her behavior. It's very sad, for all. In glad my NM passed away Thank you. Peace 💕🇺🇲
@@haleytruslow7200 I was in NC for many years. I felt complete relief. She was 93 and had a stroke and went fast. She did not suffer. It's the BS that came after her death. She had planned pure evil on us. Peace 💕🇺🇲
@@m.f.richardson1602 mom and I were the same way. She had me at 19 years old whilst she was bedridden from cancer do her and dad's taxes so that she could hide debts we never knew she had. The extent came out after her death 6 weeks later. If it comforts or doesn't comfort you, strokes aren't painless. I had one from a vesicle tear at just 30. It was one of the most horrifying experiences of my life.
This is such a heartbreaking story. It reminds me of the tiger parenting style of raising children, which I was unfortunate to witness a few times. That’s quite common in communities of children who play orchestra instruments at a high level and perform in competitions. In my opinion, this style of parenting does more harm than good. Excellent review as usual, thank you Dr. Grande.❤️
Im not convinced that the Tiger parent philosophy is a bad one. There could be some attribution bias. In particular, it seems like the ratio of high achievers to murderers is actually pretty favorable among the children of “tiger parents”.
If ever I were critical around my mom, she would say to me now lovely daughter you need to go pick up a mirror instead of a magnifying glass, perhaps the things you see and dislike in your brothers or sister or your peers are the things you dislike about yourself? I never had much to say back to my mom. What a wise woman🌹
Ya know, I used to scoff at that but I’m 40 now and struggling emotionally and I’m really getting it. It’s so true. Pretty much everything I don’t like about others it’s because that’s how I am. Your mom was wise. Mine was like that too.
Amazing how perception can be changed with context and experience. Oft repeated phrases stick around only if they apply on a large scale, it's the persons mind that needs to be ready to hear them
Vonna , my late mother , would have liked your mum. My mum always gave us words of wisdom e.g. If you don't like someone, then say, nothing. Hope your day /evening is going well.
This reminds me of one of Dr. Phil's favorite sayings: "There's just something about that ol' boy that I don't like about me" Lol. Now I don't like Dr. Phil but I do agree with that saying!
When the background discussion started I thought Dr. Grande was describing my mom. The two hardest things about moms like this are that no one believes your experience and it’s well nigh impossible to “honor thy mother” so, double failure. I can see how another person might murder, if I listen to enough Dr. Grande it almost makes sense, but why give up and throw your life away? I’d rather grow sweet peas and try to be grateful to my mom for giving me life. You’re doing more good work than you might know, Dr. G. Heartfelt thanks.🙏
Just FYI, it's pronounced Row AY ton. It's actually a village in Norwalk, CT, although many residents and real estate agents like to pretend that it's not.
Great analysis, Dr. Grande. Just goes to show, reasonable doubt can be a really high bar. Or maybe a low one. But that one juror who winked and hugged her later is a pretty disturbing thing.
I wonder if Joyce didn't think investing in her daughter's welfare was worth the expense. Or she was keeping her in isolation so no one would catch on to what was going on behind closed doors. Too bad... sounds like Karin would have benefitted from having a decent caregiver in her life.
Zena - When you think of the normal loving supportive role a mom plays in a child's life the worse this relationship seems! From highly positive to very negative is a long fall! Not so surprising that there was a bad outcome!😓💀
Hello lovely, sorry been a sleep. Noah, decided he wanted to be fed hourly. I finally woke the boys at 5am and suggested they sing Mockingbird to him , only fed him twice since then , so I've been sleeping 😴😛😚❤💙💙💙💙💙
I never taught Karen, but I have a friend who taught her at Naubuc elementary school in Glastonbury. She said Karen was quiet, but that her mother was insane. After the crime, Karen worked as a waitress at Franco’s Restaurant on Franklin Ave in Hartford, CT. At that time the Avenue was known as Little Italy, but it has changed since then. It was an Italian club/ restaurant owned by a mob underboss in the late 80’s.Bill Grasso, the owner was killed in 1989. I don’t know what happened to Karen.
Love your sometimes surreal ideas and your sardonic delivery and interesting case analysis but oh my you seem to be letting off that Alex teacher guy quite lightly...how old was he? What about his abuse of trust and exploiting Karen? It shouldn't be referred to as a relationship
Any person or group that actively participates in gaslighting, manipulating, isolating and abusing others deserves everything that they have coming to them.
I wonder if Dr. Grande’s done Barbara and Heather Opel. I dont see them listed anywhere, but I worked with each of them when I was a DOC nurse, and it’s fascinating to say the least.
I rarely hold grudges, but my 3 months of work experience with a probable OCPD sufferer still angers me 6 years later. What an insufferable micromanager! I was supposed to take over her job, in which I had more experience than she, but she would not let me deviate in the least from her hidebound rules. It was the only time I quit with no notice. She made me that mad.
I've become so numb I can't feel you there Become so tired So much more aware I'm becoming this All I want to do Is be more like me And be less like you And I know I may end up failing too But I know You were just like me, with someone disappointed in you
My aunt and my uncle by marriage did this to my cousins. One cousin is just like her dad and though both daughters and their parents took extreme advantage of our grandparents this way, one sister was better and grew up and out of that behaviour more and then chose to cut most contact with her sister shortly prior to her mother's death.
Can you make a video about Varg Vikernes and his murder of Euronymous? Would like to see a psychologist's perspective on black metal as whole, along with its philosophy of non-conformity, rejection of modernity, and often times nationalist or fascist views.
Thank you Dr. Grande. I like the new cactus twinkle lights. Would you turn them on for one video for us? I think Karin, aptly named, inherited all Mom's Cluster B traits; also picked up her manipulative skills. As you know, the scientific literature informs us of brain structure differences in these folks. My Mom treated me worse than she, but I would never be able to help do this. Also, she didn't have life insurance 😉
@Laura Christopher My sympathy, truly. I did the same but divorced..., unfortunately after producing two more like him/his family/my family. Despite my best nurturing. I recommend googling "sociopath/narcissist neurophysiology" and stick to the scientific studies from NIH, NIMH. You may be fascinated and relieved; it was never you.
I actually know her step sister, she went to school with my sister and they were friends. Karin’s father married my sister’s friends mom. I was at the friends house and Karin was there. It was after the murder. Karin now lives in Missouri. I didn’t know her or her mother.
Similarities with the Gypsy Rose Blanchard case. Neither mother should have been murdered as both children were adults and could have effected an escape. Even though Gypsy’s mother brought her back when she ran away, Gypsy should have gone somewhere her mother couldn’t find her. Not just to a boyfriends house. There should be no condoning of murder, even when the victim was abusive, when an escape can be made. Seeking revenge is never healthy.
Began a relationship with, might be a more neutral statement than "started" which seems to imply that she initiated it, even if that is not the intention.
@eb, I can see what you mean. The comment seemed so contextually irrelevant. Thank you as I don't use the app and appreciated that he or his team responded.:)
I think Karen was the mastermind behind the murder. She manipulated him just like her mother manipulated her. Karen should have gotten the same sentence that he did.
I think it's odd how your "beyond a reasonable doubt" bar is so high in some cases and yet you take hearsay as gospel in others. I hope you never serve on a jury.
Are you on Dr. Grande's patron? He has a million + followers here. So he is far more likely to see your comments and maybe respond too on patreon. I think his lowest tier is 5 bucks? so I mean you could subscribe for a month and just message him. idk, just saying if you've been doing this for a year almost... maybe its worth 5 bucks to you. idk. you do you, just a suggestion
This reminds me of the Gypsy Rose case. I think both Gypsy and Karin learned the unhealthy personality traits of their mothers and used these traits to manipulate the men involved to kill their mothers.
Humans will never run out of sad stories but at least Dr. Grande gives us a drolly hilarious perspective on them to keep us from getting so depressed about it all.
I've got a mother similar to this. Of course she behaves as though she's mother of the year and to disagree with her or tell her about her nasty behavior makes us, her children, the worst people to ever exist.
It's good that you recognize this and not fall prey to her manipulations. Not everyone under that kind of mother's control is savvy enough to see what's really going on.
My finals are over and I'm free!!! To listen to Dr Grande not diagnose anyone and only speculate on what could be happening. 🤣 Thanks Dr Grande for the video!
Joyce sounds like a total curse. In today's society, considering how isolated families can be, having a toxic family member could not be more unfortunate. Very interesting case, that is a lot to think about! Thank you for the video.
I hate the whole “they didn’t cry very much” shit. My father died by suicide and it was a terrible shock. I didn’t cry for over a week. I was busy taking care of my minor sibling, my step mother, funeral plans, and more. It was awful, but my brain just clicked into taking care of everyone. Had he been killed by someone else, I really worry about being treated as a suspect because of my reaction.
Same. I have ASD and a very neutral affect so I'm sure if anything dodgy happened they'd say I was "acting suspicious" I also just don't like showing emotion infront of other people so I actively try not to cry unless I'm by myself
This is one of Dr. Grande's main themes (along with bad lie detectors and bad NJ, Taco Bell, Jeep, and psychics!) No two people react the same way to stress, sadness, being accused, etc.
Casey White is probably the only person who could provide any significant insight into the thought process that occurred or how/why her whole life philosophy changed. I hope he, and they, are open to discussing it. Still, it would be interesting to hear Dr. G's take.
@@erdelegy hmmm yep I dont think its a reason to take justice into your own hands but karins mom made a monster. In a twisted way I wonder if she'd be proud, Joyce never persuaded anyone to kill for her so she'd have to admire karins skills a little.
@@eadweard. Everyone knows police stations are surveilled. Either she's an idiot. Or it's a deliberate ploy. She KNEW evidence would point at him. Letter found on the bed - saught legal advice & withheld informing police for two weeks. No innocent person, with evidence of an admission, does that.
lol. In your case, mother knows best! Being married to a narcissist is like trying to wrestle a porcupine. You'll never win, and be repeatedly hurt no matter what moves you make. Please, get out now, and stay out. You deserve so much better. Good luck. ❤
@@Throatzillaaa basically (to calm everyone down) my husband didn't allow me to go and stay with my mum for a couple of months with our toddler son. He was coming up with every single bizarre thing just so that our trip fails. We'd have to go by plane, first he said he'll take us, then (closer to the date) he said he won't, he changed his mind. I had to plan how to get there by public transport. Then he said he won't give any money for our expenses. However, after talking to my mum, he said he will take us and pay for expenses. I asked mum what did she say. She said she was telling him how she's lucky to have such a caring son in law who cares for her daughter, and will take to the airport and so on. Basically, put him on a pedestal (knowing that he's neglectful and abusing). And she said to me that i have to be "clever" and learn from her how to get what you want. I felt... Very disappointed and disgusted, even though i got away from my husband for couple of months. My mum is also narcissistic but slightly different from my husband. I am safe, however I have started to plan ultimate escape. From both of them. Until i have learned to guard my boundaries.
@@frankydottir8762 Sorry if we made you feel pressured to share. It wasn't my intention, I just kinda wanted you to know that someone read your comment and cares and is hoping things take a turn for a better soon. I am glad to hear that you got away from your husband. Your mom seems like she is very good at manipulating people (and also sees that as a good quality to have and pass down to her kids). It's amazing that you managed to be raised by her, still in contact with her and not only did you not become like her, you are able to see what the way she goes about getting the things she wants is quite toxic and unhealthy. my heart goes out to your and your kid. you've managed to get space from one of them, and you just need to implement a plan to get to a place where you are safe and happy (and able to raise your kid in a healthy atmosphere). I believe in you, keep your chin up!
Joyce reminds me of a "tiger parent" and for all her faults she did manage to marry 3 times. I wonder how she managed to attract men given her weird personality?
Good morning from Australia. This mother seems worse then "helicopter " parents. The mother appears to be harsh and demanding. I find it sad , that Karen set up her mothers death. As for Dennis, if he'd never met Karen, being so needy , if he'd never would have committed homicide. In my opinion i believe Karen is guilty of the crime, she didn't actually kill her , but I think she planned it. Thank you Dr Grande. Excellent analysis and topic.
The ppl who are in such abuse from closest of family like father mother or siblings or even all of them ussually exit looking in some kind crime that will liberate them from such abuse-as nobody told them and teach about healthy boundaries and voice for freedom...unfortinatly many dont have any other option then to leave and became homeless and in use of drugs.The closest family can be great support but major factor in somebody negative behavior.
Dr. Grande, Good afternoon. Just in time for a new episode…settled…waiting for a delivery but first I’m going to tune in to murder! You always report a balanced take on these crimes with a wry assessment of various mental conditions. Thank you kindly.
hello Dr grande. Can you please review the case of Larry Nassar ? Its a whole lot of content between the trial the impact statement the Netflix documentary ...
Karin's emotions betray her. Especially how she talked to Coleman on the phone after the police interview. She wasn't shocked or upset/crying, etc. She was in on it the whole time. She knew he had a key to the condo and opportunity. They had talked about it, planned it and he did the dirty work. So convenient it happened while Karin was away on a trip with Alex(alibi). Coleman and Karin both should have gotten life behind bars. It was premeditated murder and they both were in on it.
Yeah but the mom sounds like a really horrible person. She didn’t deserve to die I’m not saying that, but I could see how the jury kinda looked the other way when it was put out there how terrible of a person the mom was.
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim Terrifying. That's certainly not how I reacted to any of the deaths in my family. I suppose that's evidence that I'm guilty of something.
Hello Dr. Grande, this case was interesting and strange. Seems like many individuals had tough times during their life. I have no comments besides this was strange behavior by the mother and the daughter. Thank you for this case. Best Regards. ❤👍
I have a question. Can you do a therapist roleplay with a vulnerable narcissist with or without depressive/anxious features and maybe some interpersonal difficulties (in the context of a romantic relationship)? They often present with these problems initially in counseling and I would kind of like to see a situation where the vulnerable narcissism becomes more obvious throughout the session. Also I think it would be interesting if you referenced the alternate model/criteria for npd when formulating the roleplay.
If you go thru his older stuff, you’ll find that he sort of did that.. like, an open counseling session. Go to his playlists, and you’ll find some. Best regards from Las Vegas
