gotta say, I don't think Ryu is accurately represented by "pumpkin spice lattes" at all. Seems more like black coffee, just pure and undisturbed by any unnecessary complexity.
I don't know about that one since, to me, black coffee is much more niche than something like pumpkin spice lattes. I'd say Ryu would be a coffee with some basic ass creamer in it. Simple, recognizable, inoffensive.
I think he refers to basic as in like The “basic” aesthetic that was popular online in the early 2010s with white women Nerdy raybans, hanging out at starbucks with a pumpkin spice latte in your inoffensive sweater and skinny jeans while browsing pinterest and tumblr But like Pre-dashcon non fandom tumblr
I kinda wish you talked a little bit about charge partitioning and/or building charge during combos. I feel like how a charge char can utilize high level mechanics, or what they have to do to get specials out in their combos is detrimental to how they feel. Vatista, for example, is forced to find spots where she can hold down buttons in her combos to set up for gems, adding an execution barrier that really makes her feel like you’re controlling an old magic robot, in a way I can’t describe. Contrast that to may, who’s massive and long-hitstun normals basically do half the work to combo into Dolphin, you end up with massively different feels. yes, these two are v. different in alot of other ways, but charge motions, Imo, really begin to shine in character uniqueness when you have to combo with them.
In terms of motion inputs creating a [FEEL], only Goldlewis has managed it with behemoth typhoon. The best way I've heard it described is "kinetic", doing half-circles that perfectly correspond with the coffin's movement is... Beyond satisfying.
I think any z motion dp has great feel. It needs to begin and end with a forward direction which can't be up, and also has a crouch which anticipates the launch.
i do want to note that, while guile is a very defensive zoner and sonic booms are mostly just projectiles, light versions of boom can be used as a offensive setplay tool, as guile can reliably walk alongside them to make space/put on pressure. just something i wanted to add
Electrics make you feel *unstoppable* It's more than just the advantage it gives, the special effect, it is the reassurance that you are so on point you can just throw out a move made to be as difficult as possible.
Half-Circle Back, Forward + attack is my favorite input. It’s just different enough from the standard QCF or DP input but still easy to pull off. The moves associated with the input are always strong and when they connect you want to stand up and pop off mid-match
The transition at 4:36 is so beyond cute! Keep up the wonderful videos please, your editing is great and your narration is always quite nice to listen to
dude, this is such an amazing video. I think people really underestimate the real power of motion inputs. They aren't gatekeeping. They just offer a new style to every character to make your main feel truly unique.
It really depends on the person. You and me are used to charge motions because we usually prefer safety and power over utility. It's a very careful balance.
Nah, you're not. I used to be pretty bad at motions outside of 360s so charge characters felt way easier for me to control and I loved them (especially since I could also rely on their great normals when the chips are down)
@@lbesavant I guess I'm just a gorilla at heart. I forgot I grew up with arbitrary rules in fighting games, if I blocked I got hit, if I grabbed too much I got hit lolll so I only do alternating forms of agression
Any time a character has an aerial special that can be tk'd, my first ever character I played with intentionality (Nanase in Under Night) has ruined my perception since I try to find a use for 2367 inputs and using them whenever possible
I'm confused. I've never done ⬇️↘️➡️↖️ with her before till now. And it feels like it does the same thing as 2369/⬇️↘️➡️↗️. Am I doing it wrong/missing something or is 2367 just another way of doing a tiger knee?
@@hazelv.a.7976 It depends on the character, for Nanase it's pretty obvious if you did it correctly because her A fireball carries all horizontal jump momentum. It'll look like she's floating backwards and then shoots out the projectile. It's a very good tactic for her, but you need a lot of practise. You have to go from 6 to 7 without touching 8 or 9 or you'll get neutral fireball or forward fireball. Watch Hishigata play Nanase on the EVO 2019 feature matches and top 8 and you'll see the difference between 2367/8/9A fireball
my favorite character based solely on their game feel is Leo from Xrd. I like using charge inputs way more for fireballs and DP's but his rekka in xrd is also so much fun to input. They took away his rekka in strive, and he's still fun, but i just love inputting it in xrd so much. I definitely prefer charge motion inputs, but i don't really like the defensive style of guile, and i don't really like using charge motions in combos like bison, That's why Leo is perfect for me, you use his charge motions in neutral but use quarter circles in combos.
i love how kof handles 360s, and by that i mean, how they never use them. to my knowledge only one character has one and it can only be performed in the air/can be tiger knee'd, making it even less of a problem. my only guess as to why the series lacks the input is that the snk's grappler design philosophy removes the need. if grapplers don't rely on 1 big damage move, there's no reason to balance it with a big input.
I think the best designed move ever is geese Howard’s raging storm. It may be the strongest move in fighting game history; it’s a high damage invincible anti air that surrounds the entire body covers immense real estate and is generally near impossible to reliably punish outside of whiff which will most likely not happen. To compensate for this it deliberately has one of the most unintuitive inputs ever; ↙ ➡ ↘ ⬇ ↙ ⬅ ↘, an input we totally believe you never found difficult to ever do when someone brings it up. This keeps it fair because it’s simply not unreactable. Even at its fastest it not only takes longer than any motion to do, it also realistically isn’t something you can easily combo into because outside of jump ins you’ll probably never run up and combo into this until you perfect it. It keeps its god tier presence but it’s not really deemed too good because we all know it’s not exactly something everyone can do every time. I like the idea of moves strengths being tied into the idea people will mess it up even when they’re the best.
I agree in that it tries to portray power with difficulty and it is pretty unintuitive to use, but how exactly is it good? I mean, it's not only very hard to do precisely as it requires hard diagonals only favorable for arcade sticks, the move isn't all that. There are loads of stronger moves in SNK. Let alone fighting games. You have SNK bosses doing 70% with screen nukes whose inputs are shinkku hadoukens
personally as a previous tekken player that had a serious phobia into any character that had motion inputs, after i started playing guilty gear, i started to appreciate them and they "feel" POWERFUL
I hate when someone describes the DP motion as a Z motion. When I was looking at the command list in SF4 it said to do a Z motion so I did up+back, up+forward, down+back, down+forward. I literally drew a Z with the control stick, don't even try to tell me that's not a Z motion because it literally is!
The image for the DP shows you what the Z is. Forward, Down, Down-Forward. It even shows the Z on the lower-right of the stick to indicate it isn't the motion you tried doing. And before you say that isn't a Z, keep in mind fighting games were originally for Arcade Machines, with some being designed so you can go straight from Forward to Down to make that Z shape vs. the modern day version of rolling Forward, Down-Forward, Down before doing Down-Forward again.
@@espurrseyes42 disagree, calling it a Z motion is just confusing. It's far more clear to say the motions individually for someone who isn't versed in fighting game history.
@@GameGod77 I don't disagree, but the Z in the DP motion is very clear if you look at the image that represents it. I'd argue just saying DP makes less sense since that doesn't communicate any kind of directions like Quarter/Half Circle or even Z. This is why I like NumPad notation. But some people think that's too complex to learn.
My FG experience is mostly self taught, so I never learned a lot of obvious stuff. 200 hours in, you just taught me what a TK input is and how to do one. Thank you king
Yeah... I've been playing fighting games for 19 years and I've never been the type who gets dopamine hits from doing motion inputs. Maybe because I grew up on SoulCal, DoA, VF, and Tekken, in which motion inputs were mostly not a thing by design. I get my satisfaction from counterplay and outplaying the opponent in gameplay that allows more interactions than time spent in blockstun nor in combos. Aka. more Neutral, shorter block pressure, shorter combos. The less overtuned offense is, the less blocking is punished, and the less 'single-player moments' a fighting game has, the better and more rewarding it's gameplay design is.
Surprised you didn't mention KOF and some of it's insane inputs. Leona would be interesting by herself since kind of from the Leo train. (The names being similar is weird)
just a tiny little correction, i got the basic ideia of the video, but in SFV guile wins fireball wars with literally anyone. I think you forgot to explain that charge characters can charge in moves recovery. Another bad example was when you said ryu could ant air after fireball, and guile couldnt. This is wrong, guile's FB recovers even faster than ryu's, and if the player has build a charge during the recovery frames he can react.
I play Terry the most out of all of them, but the 60%+ Ken combos that involve like 3 consecutive motion inputs just feel 👌👌😩😩 i genuinely await a platform fighter where at least some motion inputs are commonplace
@@cerdi_99 Took me awhile to realize it but I'm definitely a shoto main, at least when no misfits and freaks are available like Faust and Arakune. I main Iori and King across all of KoF, Juri in SSF4, Jago in Killer Instinct, So even with Faust and Arakune for GG and BB respectively it's mostly shoto characters. I haven't played a lot of Under Night but when a friend introduced me to it I took to Carmine right away too.
Wait, to my knowledge doesn't Guile win fireball wars at all ranges? Because he recovers faster than any shoto fireball AND gets more meter per boom? So then he gets access to EXs almost twice as fast, and in SFV he can get "free" EXs with his VS1, right? And up close he literally gets the shoto killer, so I'm very confused where he outright loses if not goes even with the shotos?
You are 100% correct Guile generally beats most if not all characters in fireball wars across every street fighter he’s in. He can also be much more offensive with sonic booms if he wants.
If your characters are designed well they feel different even if the motions are similar. Using motion inputs to make characters feel different is fine but ultimately more important as a balance choice than anything else
even is not a conventional figthing gmae, for Honor : gladiator toe stab, feels soo natural, as you press down GB to stab them in the foot, the same for orochi down heavy that is one of the most anime moves in the game. they feel a lot diferent fromnsomeone like berserker that is a hiperarmor, feint focus character
I'm curious, how do you struggle with half circles? In my mind it's one of the easier ones since it's all one fast motion. I don't mean this to be sarcastic, I really want to know what about it is hard for you. Also yeah, pretzel is kinda meant to be BS
Half ciricles aren't bad unless you're using a D-pad I recommend getting used to switching back and forth between the Dpad and control stick if you can for most controllers because some motions are definitely easier with one or the other. As a huge KoF fan though I second you on the Pretzel inputs, those suck and are nigh impossible to combo into, I do not miss those one bit. I personally prefer pendulum inputs to double quarter circles for supers though. Double quarter circles just interfere with trying to do regular attacks and waste meter, been playing for years and they still don't feel natural to use either, pendulum motions on the other hand are immediately intuitive to me.
Anyone who says motion inputs are gatekeeping are lying/scrubs, if my 7 yr old cousin can pick it up AND incorporate them in simple combos so could you
when you said a charge character with a back forward projectile and flash kick with half the charge time and also an offensive movement tool i was so excited for heidern and then dissapointed with leo.
Tekken best input sysem. Edit: I play on a normal controller. The snapback effect when I try to let my analogue stick go back to neutral, and it registers "Oh, you aren't crouching anymore? So that TINY SPLIT SECOND of snapback up input means you want to jump? Ok! You're jumping now!" is eldritch and annoying.
Pretty much me with BBTAG "simplifying" characters is bad Essentially, sure, everyone has a 236/214/222 motions, but using this videos logic as a base, everyone's still themselves Ragnas Hells Fang is still a dash forward with a follow-up Compared to Ruby, who's similar motion is sort of a teleport with a set distance (and even angle depending on the button used) And this logic also applies to Supers, DPs, throws to an extent, just to name a few Simply gutting special inputs/boiling them to QCF/B isn't nearly enough to ruin a characters feel
"There are no DPs in FighterZ and those who have them are simple down down inputs" SSJ Vegeta, Blue Gogeta, and UI Goku are crying with their quarter circle back DPs.
@@AnthanKrufix what does "and a character who needs an extra move for a DP" mean though? Who NEEDS an extra move for a DP? Clearly not Vegito. UI Goku has 2 DPs. A down down and a quartercircle back DP. Characters like SSJ Vegito have a DP that isn't set to down down. I pointed out the fact that he says that there are no DPs, and the DPs that do exist are set to down down, which simply isn't true. What did I miss?
Anyone got a source that i can look at to understand the characters of street fighter? I seem to always do fine with ryu or ken(obviuosly) but its like some characters are unplayable with command instructions that i don't understand or just do their combos by accident. For some background on me. I am about average at fighterz and mkxl.
@@iggydadawg9712 maybe that's just what I need. The button icons just confuse me. Some characters and their inputs I can understand and excecute but it feels like the opposite with certian characters.
Pumpkin Spice Latte is a popular seasonal drink of Fall in North America (don't know about other places). It's especially popular with yuppies and hipsters, people who with inflated egos who think they're special and unique despite consistently being indistinguishable from others of their ilk and being the most boring people imaginable. So Pumpkin Spice Latte in terms of the expression used in the video is basically a more venomous way of calling something basic, or vanilla.
And this also doubles as a good explanation for why motion inputs should still be kept around. Unless of course they find other ways to keep things balanced and bring back the unique feels that motion inputs give to characters. But why go through that effort when you can just stick to what works?
talk about motion input feeling and sadly there´s not reconocense of primal rage where you have to attack and then press the input to do a a special. sad that wasnt talk about.
A bit late I know but, rekka is a special move with multiple stages, so like as a hypothetical if dragon punch was stage 1 followed by tatsu for stage 2 then a stage 3. But it's all linked and kinda considered one move Extension is a general term for the continuation for an attack, so like I get a first combo then dash cancel by spend meter to continue it extending my attack. But calling a rekka an extension isn't incorrect Think of it like all Rekkas are extensions but not all extensions are rekkas
My opinion as a more casual gamer is simply this. Keep them around but take FighterZ approach in getting rid of the more pretzel twisty annoying ones and Z-motion Then Sakurai's approach to them in Smash where you want to give beginners some nice reward and incentive through a more powerful version for taking time to master them like second nature instead of take an easy PPP-E ( Budokai ) or forward+b way out.
Why do motion inputs have to be a genre staple???? Eradicating motion inputs from fighting game control systems would make the genre massively more appealing but fighting game devs seem obsessed in creating control systems that alienate and ultimately make the genre niche.
It'd also require developers to redesign the entire game around the easier inputs due to move properties being based around the fact that they're locked behind inputs. They may also need to cut certain moves due to space limitations since you can't exactly fit 20 specials on a single button. Motion inputs are a balancing tool and a means to give characters more moves. So unless you want everyone to have the same level of depth as vanilla Ryu and have bad moves to balance how easy they are to do, motion inputs are here to stay. Go play Smash if you don't like them. Just don't play Ryu, Ken, Terry, or Kazuya, Input characters who expect you to do Quarter Circles and DPs to be good with.
