at the rate they're going now with the bikes, i'm starting to wonder when we'll see the drivers themselves wearing some wings and spoilers on their suits. like some sort of power ranger
Tbh I don't understand why they're not already wearing surfaced leg suits like, say, in speed skiing. But maybe that's not allowed by the rules, I don't know much about MotoGP...
I think that would edge into "moveable aero-dynamic device territory" (which riders technically are anyway) but I think Dorna would kill it immediately
Totally agree. This is the way it should be when you're at the panicle of your motorsport. F1 has lost this with everything becoming carbon copies of each other.
@@miken966 F1 lost it because of idiotic rules. In the past strict rules made sense to contain costs, but nowadays with a budget cap, strict rules do not work anymore... F1 should put few rules (safety first) and then let them race
I guess 'golden era' is subjective and individual to when people got into the sport. I find this stuff fascinating. But can't say I enjoyed the early era of areo (post ground effect).
That's standard in F1. The trucks have printers. If something breaks, you design a fix in the factory, send it over and shortly after it's on the vehicle.
@@RCmaniac667 I imagine this type of thing is only used for like mirror covers and brake ducts and that type of thing, probably not actually wing elements like they can do on the bikes.
It looks like they are using a standard FDM printer for those aero parts, I can see the layers. Looks also like they sanding them and maybe even laminate the parts, what would make them really strong and provide a great surface finish.
@@61percentodicarica correct me if I'm wrong but I think Suzuki tried something early on in the four stroke era but I don't think they could get it to work and it was absolutely hideous looking
I remember when titanium elbow slide pads were the new "crazy" innovation. People scoffed. I can imagine that the look of the new bikes offends some people, but they are undoubtedly incredible machines.
Another interesting aspect of the rear wings, is that they can be stalled by the rider when lower drag is a benefit (DRS); the rider would only need to shift their body position, slightly, to create a pocket of low pressure air right at the wing.
I read somewhere that the mechanic who installed that ugly wing on the yamaha said to the rider "I'm sorry, I hope it doesn't work" - hoping he could take it off again :D
While not very aggressive in aero my 22 zx10r does have it. And it does make a difference at track speeds. After years on older spec 750's and 1000's that fought you all the way the stability and ease of riding these modern bikes have is just mental. And I'm totally addicted.
Great video, as always! I don't currently watch moto gp, but all this new aero technology is so cool and interesting! Definitely going to have to start watching.
Why does the Yamaha spoiler work? It is supposed to create downforce with little cost of drag and based on your other videos it is creating sideforce, something teams don't want on their bikes. Why does it give stability? I'm amazed PD: Ah man if you ever need help to translate your videos to Spanish (I'm a native) just tell me because up to this point you are the best youtuber from the aero world and you've teached me more than everybody else. Thank you so much
Super interesting video, thank you. At first I couldn't wrap my head around the aero on GP bikes and (in my head) the wings are providing downforce when the bike is upright at 0 degrees, and it seems like they'll still produce this vertical downforce parallel down the wheels, which makes me think it will cause less grip in a corner from a greater force essentially pushing their bikes outwards, rather than pulling them in. I guess that is what the diffusers are doing and the vertical aero wings at the back. With such turbulent air from the rider it must be so hard to model. Super interesting though and crazy developments. A long way from the aero humps on the suits!
really cool to whitness the advancement of aerodynamics in bike racing. im still waiting for certain aero feature that are kind of controlled by the rider through certain movements on the bike such as opening or closing certain airducts. also: are the leather suits going to be optimized? (for example around the legs to improve the side panel diffusor)
Only till there will be too much debris on the track from a slide and potentially harm other riders. I give it one season and additional wings other than the main front ones will be gone.
Non-aero, rear wheels in the air and Vale but especially Stoner and Marc manhandling those bikes around was a golden age. 😍 (Jorge and Dani, legends as well.)
You must like Toprak in World Superbikes! Nobody brakes later and harder than Toprak Razgatlioglu, I swear I saw him going halfway around a corner with the rear in the air. No wonder they call him 'Stoprak'! Yamaha tried to move him to MotoGP but he declined. In the British Superbikes Championship they even banned electronic rider aids but if you watch one British Superbike race make it Cadwell Park. You'll see why...
@@gustavmeyrink_2.0 Thanks for the recommendation of Cadwell Park! Toprak is a great rider no doubt about it, British Superbikes are great too I've lost a bit of touch but used to watch in the past in the years of Troy Bayliss, Neil Hodgson and then later Shane Byrne, the Laverty brothers, Alex Lowes...
This stuff is so extreme now. Apparently they can't change the rules for 2 or 3 more years but by then the bikes will look like Swiss army knives. Something will definitely be done about this
So glad I found your channel. I stopped watching motogp some time around 2009-2010, and I'm recently looking to get back into it - the bikes have changed so much it's insane.
@B Sport, Take a look at the MotoInno TS3 and tell me what you think of trying to do a double chassis aero concept like the Lotus 79 with a small ground effect hugging tunnel between the wheels. Seems doable to me, and it could make vertical downforce if the side skirts rotate or flex. As an Aeronautical Engineer I really like your MotoGP aerodynamic analysis!
I've always thought a kind of active aero which deploys opposite to the angle of lean from the bottom of the chassis to keep the centre of gravity closest to the contact patch. Stowing away again as the bike stands up.
@B sport could it be possible that you made an analysis of the aeros of the Aprilia RS 660 street bike? it has several very interesting features that I'd love someone like you to go over. I can provide with videos, pictures and measurements if needed. Thanks!
When all the racing teams catch up with the tech it's gonna make for some brilliant racing. From zipping around on a suzuki gs850 early 80s to the machines about nowadays the advance in motorcycle tech in stunning.
Starlink V2 satellite dish has inverted wing design that pushes dish down in high wind conditions - I ground deploy dish ( camping) on stock stand and dish has never moved at all (or blow away) in many wind storms - works so well no one even notices its awesome design but its obvious to me - do a video explaining how it works - Thanks
I am impressed with these developments in Aerodynamics on the Aprilia in particular I see how they are thinking, Suzuki tuned their bikes like Swiss watches but Aprilia have gone the McLaren F1 route utilising Aero to advance their cornering advantage …
Watching your Aero vid from last Feb, why haven’t the teams / sport allowed for the backs of suits to be modified? They seem pretty ridged (in standing / comfort) when looking at knee sliders etc. Why can’t they make a smooth carbon fibre surface that would better connect the helmet to the rear of the bike? Making plates and stand offs that could allow for rotation as the bigger moves around the bike? Is this a regs thing so all suits are the same for safety reason, or are there bigger issues at play that have prevented this from happening?
Going to get back into watching MotoGP again. What’s the equivalent of ‘The Race’ for the two wheeled sport? That kind of multimedia platform coverage that’s more personal than traditional news reporters like sky BT etc?
If one takes a non-downforce bike, heading toward a corner. Brake comes on, forks compress. Bike with front downforce, the faster it goes, the more downforce, the forks compress. Then the brakes are applied, the forks compress more. How is this accounted for, are the forks pressurised more or less dependent upon downforce/braking!
Is it due to causing hot turbulence and increasing front tyre pressure in the driver behind (making overtaking harder from following) that most exhaust systems have one outlet pointing directly back? Ie the Suzuki of last years exhaust having both outlets on the side has less power to create the same effect above, than say the Ducati with one being directly behind the seat?
to take a guess from roadcars, that space behind the bike is going to be a massive low pressure/draggy section, exhaust into that area would both help the exhaust since there would be a mild scavenging effect 'pulling' the exhaust out, as well as in-fill into that area behind the bike so it causes less drag. (think of a teardrop shape, even though the front is the same it has less drag than a simple rounded shape). I imagine there are packaging benefits and symmetry is desirable when you have bikes now exploiting aero. If you had assymmetric exhausts in an area where the exhaust interacts with an aero device - how do you balance it out with a side that _doesn't_ also have jets of hot air blasting over the aero device? also if you have exhaiust interacting with aero devices, the aero can unbalance suddenly with a throttle change - imagine a downforce shift while cornering or in an S curve. (all guesses, I switched out of aero engineering so these are just 'amateur but interested' guesses.)
@@quickdry3 very good points. Much of it I didn’t consider. Thank you for this! But then I never too up an aero course like you did. I wonder what the regs are and what the engineering and aero of each department is like regarding this asymmetry. Perhaps it’s done also based on there being more left or right turns throughout the calendar? Like asymmetric tries but beyond the confines of one track.
how much downforce do these little wings and elements do you think they make ? for example ..... 100kg @200 km/h of total downforce or more or less ? what do you reckon ?
I saw see simple wing research. Df figures were about 30kg at max. But that was for single element. So i inagine at maximum rake the bikes at braking could produce 50kg. With is for 300kg object quite good balance shift. Also at lest i dont how lean angle works with an ground effect. I would be interested to see figures there.
why don't they use f1 style endplates at the rear wing? and position it a little bit higher 2 parts to adjust angle? moto gp don't have well enough defined rules so i can flex like crazy if someone from f1 would design it! and there are also no turning vanes on the front wings to direct air where you want it?
@@MV-vv7sg Video pass is around 180euro for the season and I was paying 30£ a month for BT Sport through Sky TV. BT was very handy because everything was recorded on the box but it’s all on demand with video pass so I’m going with that for this year
@@sleepwalker8600 ahh okay. It’s annoying coz I already have SKY F1 through Now TV. It’s a shame I can’t have both that and GP on it lol. Another place to application to spend money. 🙄
@@MV-vv7sg Yeah man there’s been a fair bit of complaint recently about pricing and talk about the possibilities of some races going free to air, but all I know for sure is I’m going to save nearly 200£ by changing to video pass
The Aprilia RS 660 and the RSV4 include several things directly steaming down from these. They have the front wings, several special intakes for air channeling, if you have the sport seat option this has fins on it and so on. Not yet so hardcore as these but certainly a few steps above most other manufacturers, particularly the 660 for it's segment.
Not sure you're watching these races but the bikes still wheelie and stoppie every corner. If this aero was so effective why do they keep constantly making huge changes?
These are remarkable aerodynamic features; however it seems to me they add weight too. The riders may have to adapt to these changes too, I don't know if some of them will find them beneficial.
I think its great. They should be focusing on making these bikes the pinnacle of performance. I would love to see some active dynamics being developed for these bikes as well. Possibly some really radical design changes to come with fully electric race bikes.
I'm enjoying this aerodynamic phase motoGP is going through, and I've yet to see it ruin the racing. On an unrelated note, do you think these bikes use direct injection ?
i doubt aero will ever ruin racing in bike, they don't have huge wake like a car or F1. the "disturbed" air is much smaller and the probability of following bike itself appearing right on that dirty air should be quite low.
It already does ruin the racing, you already hear riders complaining about dirty air and you can actually see them struggling under braking, when following other bikes, especially the Ducatis. And it's gotten much worse over the last three years.
So MotoGP went towards the direction of runaways costs and massively fragmented competition, like F1. Somehow I don't think it will lead to anything good here either.
It's not so simple. Ducati are the manufacturer supplying most of the grid, so they have the most political power. The introduction of control electronics by Dorna obviously took away the electronics advantage of the Japanese manufacturers. Whereas allowing winglets and ride height devices plays to the advantage of Ducati and other European manufacturers (even if these devices are arguably less road relevant than electronics which could help out less experienced road riders to handle powerful bikes). European manufacturers are not going to vote for something against their own interest (i.e., banning winglets or ride height devices), and Dorna seem happy with the present situation -- especially given that it is European manufacturers which supply most of the customer teams in MotoGP.
Love all the new tech , i like the exteme look but its not a beauty contest . The bikes are so fast so powerful aero is a need not a option .. For all those wanting aero banned/ lessened > Do you want to see the riders hurt/killed too because thats what will happen
I like what the Aero Engineers in MotoGP are doing. Experimenting every angle just to make an improvements. Looking forward to some more improvements . Good to see that Yamaha's rear aero wasn't doing any good to their bike. Because it looks horrendous.
There are other series with spec bikes. Moto GP should be the fastes bikes arround a track, and they keep on breaking lap records every other week with aero bikes
@@hemi265mustard But you cant ban aero any more. Sure appendices can get cleaned/banned with new radii rules etc. Like F1 did in 2009. But engineers will use learned aero knowledge. Just bikes will look different.
@@hemi265mustard bikes are too small to have dirty air problem like f1. why i don't like it because i think the aero gains to complexity and looks ratio (a made up ratio) is not good. these things are probably too complex and probably don't have huge downforce gain like f1 , and the looks itself get quite destroyed. im all for small aero details like we see on 1000cc road bikes but after that it becomes bit too much, even without downforce a normal 1000cc bike is fast af.
You can't use "looks stupid" in a serious argument and expect to be taken seriously, it just shows you have nothing or no idea whatsoever of what to say. Even the parts falling off and hitting other riders is more relevant than this.
A slight contact with another rider and you quickly are in trouble because of a wing that is missing. In the past you could do a quick dip in the gravel pit and still win the race. Now I'm not so sure... The other sad effect of this is that this bs ends up on streetbikes which is just ridiculous. The riders in motogp are racers, and pretty damn good at it. If you feel you need wings on the street you got a bit too high thoughts of yourself.
I find the moto GP mor interesting than F1 because a moto GP bike is much more dynamic. It’s not a flat car going around a track but a dynamic rotating machine that has to work in a variety of positions and circumstances.
