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I appreciate the reasonable and non-politicized discussion about the electric vehicle future. Personally i think this little bike is pretty cool and I can totally see the utility of it for many people. However i think they priced it about double what it should be.
I had a Zero FXS for a few years. It was hands down one of the most fun bikes I ever rode. I also enjoyed the ability to go whizzing through neighborhood streets in stealthy silence. The limited range did effect how often I rode it, and as a result it was parked a lot. If you live in places with low winter temps, you can expect a 15-25% decrease in range on cold days. I eventually sold the FXS, but will buy another electric motorcycle when prices come down and energy density goes up.
OK BMW, so you did a nice engineering exercise. But seriously, you expect to actually sell these? To preference this, I'm not anti-ev. I own and love my 2023 Chevy Bolt ev - $37K out the door on the top level and every available option, fantastic SUV, 250 mile range, and about 115 MPG equivalent. It's our usual daily driver by far. But, I also love my 2022 Honda Trail 125 - another fantastic vehicle, so fun, handles wonderfully, can commute, can also go off-road (to a point), gets great gas milage, has a range in the order of 150 miles, and cost about $4K. So why in the world would I buy this, except for some sort of "cool" factor? No thanks, I'll wait until electric motorcycles are actually usable and reasonable in cost.
I hipe they keep the guage cluster idea. The rear carry handles are interesting i just dont knkw if i was a passenger if thats where id want to be homding on i thing id fly off the back holding onto those but they probably act better for muscling the bike around whe. Youre in the garage amyway you feel me
You did an OK job of explaining electric versus IC engines. However, the most fuel efficient IC engine is 35 percent efficient that means compared to an electric motor which averages 93 percent efficiency means that per mile driven an EV gets about 96 miles per equivalent gallon of gasoline. NOTE: The energy to make one IC engine is as much as an entire electric car. The energy needed to manufacture a 3.0 liter engine is as much as 700 240 watt solar panels or 7955 kw of batteries.
Bought a 2000W fat tire e-bike a few months ago. It’s got front shocks and I can ride on/off-road. It weighs 75lbs. Light! Range is 40-60 miles. Price: $1300 Extra battery price: $575 It’s got a luggage rack & tough nylon pannier bags. I usually don’t bring my extra battery. If I did my range would be closer to 100+ miles. On trail it reminds me of an ultralight dirt bike, if there is such a beast. It has single (economy) and AWD/boost mode. I can traverse steep hills. And it’s lightness doesn’t tear up trails. Max speed is 35mph plenty fast for trail riding. I crossed a stream with 18 inches of water. Moral of the story: If you want both on/off-road there are better options out there…that go off-road! Prices on electric mobility is coming down!
@@timlubbers2884 That’s right. Comes with 7 speed Shimano gears so you can get some cardio. I do long distance adventure races so I can go hundreds of miles on this beast.
Perfect bike for large urban city with congested traffic. Makes zero sense for large cities with good traffic flow and longer distance. Not everything is for everyone. Thankfully we have choices. Another great Video Ian!
But as mentioned, where is it charged in the dense urban environment with poor traffic flow if not at a public charger? Yes, a few folks have garages or a spot in their parking garage with 110V access but the lack of charging methodology from a public network of chargers seems a significant miss for the US...unless Ian misunderstood that part.
30 miles range bro thats terrible. Even for a city i mean look, 30k by the time you get a corolla with the floormats and the nice rims and the insurance the oil change the car wash. If all youre doing is going to school 3 miles away and going 2 miles each way at lunch time and 3 miles back home and you scoot around a few miles between for fun itll do the job but not much more bro. Where I live your job is 15 miles away 60mph each way. For 8k its unique I love the guage cluster uniqueness. This sucks for 8k you can get a hell of an accord bro working heat and ac all the old buttons replaced new battery under the hood doesnt burn oil transmission servicing done right not neglected one that sat in a garage all its life v6. But you pay for gas and you do but i mean 50 miles range max i bet its mkre like 25 when its old. An old accord go cross country back to back to bacl not stopping you can actually go explore 500 bucks in gas is a lot of money but you can really go from one side of usa to the other. This sucks man.
I love your straightforward common sense review Ian ! I live in South East Asia and we too have huge issues with pollution but its not from passenger vehicles or motorcycles, rather its from old trucks, buses, and the burning off of land before the growing season...
One year ago I hated the idea of an EV. After trying one I bought a second one and sold two ICE cars. IF the are ever able to do DC fast charging on a motorcycle and make it look normal and have a decent range and cost no more than an equivalent gas powered bike yes I would try one.
I wouldn't buy one, unless it had quick charging, and at least 80-100 miles in range. I really liked the fact you covered the fact that these vehicles are at best equivalent to internal combustion I'm terms of environmental impact.
This is a great starting point and a good engineering exercise by BMW. In a few years to a decade these things might have much more range and become much cheaper as battery costs decrease and efficiency improve.
Quiet less obnoxious sounding motorcycles are nice but sometimes a little noise is ok too because cars can hear you more. Which sometimes equates to being safer for the motorcyclist.
Marc is YT driving a Zero EV motorcycle from Germany aiming for NZ. He’s doing well and manage to charge all the time. He has never run out of power. It’s not always easy but doable. Changed my opinion about EV motorcycles.
It looks fun to mess around on. But yea 8k is crazy. I think the best part about any electric vehicle is the instant torque. Pulling away from a stoplight is so fun!
Power vs efficiency isn't what bothers me about the current electric market. It's the rapid diminishing battery life over time. How far/fast will it go in 10-15 years? 🤨
Hahaha great argument 😂 Do u understand all vehicles are designed to be uneconomical to maintain in 10years TOP. Is called planned obsolescence. Your both electric and ice vehicle is trash after 10years, unless u willing to spend on it more than it's total worth. If anything, electric actually have much bigger chance to be usable after 10years, because they are super simple mechanically. While BMW etc already for more than 10-20years makes sure you can't fix ANYTHING on your own
It would take 50 yrs to have the charging infrastructure and then the next problem is our old grid and charging would have to be brought down to 10 minutes to charge the time it takes to fill a gas tank and the range would need to be near 400 miles per charge if these things could happen all of them then I could consider owning electric vehicles I don't think I will see these changes in my lifetime
Polestar just released a video of their car charging to 80% in 10 minutes, Lucid's cars get 500 miles of range, Tesla's super chargers are in almost every corner of every country. You just haven't been paying attention.
@@Waldo1122 BS. "Tesla's super chargers are in almost every corner of every country" Come to Australia, Champ. Then you will see it is actually you that hasn't been paying attention. 80% in 10 min comes with a caveat that you will drastically reduce battery life if you do it regularly, 500 mile range comes with an eye watering entry price and a massive resource wasting battery pack. I am not anti EV, my wife's next car will be one. But i am absolutely sick of the rubbish suggestions that they are all things to all people. They are an advantage to some people and uses, and a PITA for others. Motorcycles and towing vehicles are just 2 of the uses that EV'S are rubbish at, and that is not going to change for a long time, at least at an affordable cost.
the global "black gold"(crude oil) reserves are finite, while it's the main source for millions of modern day's appliances. Looking for and implementing alternative ways to power transport is not a matter of choice, it's a necessity. ICE's might still be around for a long time, but running them on fossil fuels like we do today will inevitably end at sometime in the foreseeable future...
It nice to see the US perspective on this this vehicle. I do have a use case: Living close to Munich and going to office in the city center this electric 2-wheeler is really appealing to me - it is electric, faster, so that I can ride at the normal car speed easily (and will win every traffic light start) and better seen than an e-bike. (I do really do not like biking from the outskirts to the center as that would be almost beside normal roads with all the stinky ICE vehicles) The caveat is indeed the price tag …. But a its just a 2k more than a Vespa … and does not need gasoline- so this advantage, to not need a gas station is very valuable, since my car is a BEV since 4 years now. Well … for sure this CE02 will not be a sold to really many customers- but hey … it‘s kind of a rare occurrence and this is cool - isn’t it?
Thanks for the video, very interesting. I am Gen X and I am ready to make the change to electric cars and motorcycles. Thier performance is coming along quickly. The problems are very clear, and you outlined those except there does also seem to be a dogmatic sort of political bias to resist any changes from combustion to electric. E Mountain Bikes are already performing impressively and getting close to outperforming DS motorcycles. When 2 stroke changed to 4 stroke no one wanted to budge. Until 4 strokes starting winning MX and then the consumers wanted to BUY the winning bikes. Demand changed. Just like steam, just like gasoline, the MORE the market uses it, the more research and efficiency can develop.
You´ve got to love America. Testing an electric motorcycle, while muscle cars blast by with full exhaust systems as it seems. All of that in Las Vegas, a.k.a. Sin City, where there is a random, giant street sign which says "Sin has consequences, repent". Even if you tried, you couldn´t come up with this in your wildest dream. At least not as a German 😛. You brought up one point though, which so many don´t understand in the western world. We can come up with all the fancy tech to reduce a couple of grams of CO2 or NOx. If we don´t develop affordable and usable technology, that third world and developing countries can use, all the effort is not only useless, but makes our life just worse and more expensive.
You managed to make an electric scooter review interesting! Thank you for that. I too am interested in electric motorcycles, once the battery tech improves. Not that I would want to give up my Triumph triples. The only real concern I have is loss of choice. As long as electric isn't mandated and consumers have choice, we're all good.
Same engine as 850 gs, just punched out to bigger displacement. Made for bmw by Loncin Chinese manufacturer if I’m not mistaken. An improvement but essentially very similar to its predecessor.
Hi Ian, nice video. I’m a gas and diesel guy at heart , BMW GSA owner, Power Wagon etc. I think these are awesome to cruise around in city environments but for $8K…that’s just nuts. $3K is what the price point should be…I’d buy one tomorrow for cruising around the Holy City
No removable battery is a major downside, the ebike/emoto market is getting super saturated with much cheaper (albeit less quality) bikes that have bigger batteries and much farther range.
fantastic video (as usual) on the "ICE x Electric" issue, mostly on the consequences of chosing electric or sticking to diesel/gasoline. in Europe things are a little different, mas not that much (on this topic). kudos
Thanks again for that. Great informative video. I had seen this online but thank you for reviewing it. Yes it’s expensive and correct. It’s not gonna save the world’s Eco problems. Thank you very much. See you in the next video.
That looks cool to have but damn $8k up to $9k is too high , but I guess since it has the BMW banding it adds an extra $2k to $3k to it , either way that's alot for something that's only for inner city riding and the riding range is too short
Really enjoyed your concept on electric for what it is and still wanting one. I believe there is a use of electric and ice in most families be it cars or bikes. Just have to work some things out yet. Great review as always
I paid 1k for a Magicycle bike and it's great for local ride around town and can charge over night. It makes no sense in any other scenario. I would take a 125cc Honda Trail over one of these any day of the week...they get 90 miles to the gallon.
A commercial disaster waiting to happen! Over $8000!!!!!! Never mind, they can add the losses to the price of the GS. For short commutes, I can see the point of things like the Keeway EZ Mini at presumably around $1500 (I'm in UK and the RRP of the EZ is £1500), but north of $8k for a toy with 50 miles ish range is not serious.
I'd love one for about $5-6000, they just look so cool. People complaining about the styling, range, or price are kind of missing the point. This is aimed at white collar workers living in European capital cities and for them, it's a reasonable value proposition. For the rest of the world, including the US, it's more of a fun toy that would be a 3rd or 7th bike..
No, nobody in Europe will be riding this thing. Especially for that price, especially any kind of workers lol. Like Ian said, it's a toy for rich kids,
It should never be more expensive than an ICE vehicle because EVs are so much cheaper to build than what goes into building a combustion engine vehicle and we should not believe the hype that is being fed to the public by the EV industry, period. Great review Ian this is an awesome realistic review on this subject, and I love the fact that you do not sugar coat this subject and you just really tell it like it is. Thank you Ian for another honest review.
Idk why everyone building electric bikes feels the urge to make them look like an ultra modern douche machine. It's like they had "tech bros" in mind and NOBODY else. 😐
Id be interested in say a TW converted to Electric. A utility bike that could be plated to run to the store. Or even haul up to camp site, or riding area. 40 mile limit is kinda pushing it for the PNW.
Ian, great video. You illuminated all the points concerning petroleum vs electric powered vehicles. I think the market for electric powered two wheeled vehicles is very small at this time. The energy density issue needs to improve before EV two wheeled vehicles make sense. One CE 02 feature that you didn't discuss: you can repurpose the seat as an ironing board:)
Very good explanation yes it would be perfect in those developing countries for less than $1500. Mostly developed countries will buy them but won't use them as the developing nations use their small motorcycles.
I was partially on a first glance considering the Moped/Scooter variant of it.. Untill i found out that they basically remove the one of two batteries = Halving it's range... Which Feels a bit wrong. Why not just somehow give it a limiter that makes it so 'Yes you get the same range but not the same speed'... Why should I pay a premium and a higher drivers license just to get a second battery?
I live in an area with a lot of hydroelectric power and it depends on what defines clean…. Less emissions? Sure. However they decimate wildlife and natural habitat and hatcheries. Our dam’s in Washington have really hurt salmon and other species which is a real impact to life vice a co2 producing plant which actually feed plants and trees that need co2 to produce oxygen.
At least BMW was more sensible than KTM was with the electric Freeride and made it so you can charge the battery with a regular 110 outlet (KTM needs 220). I think it looks cool for what it is though. And probably way less likely to get stolen than an ebike or a grom/z125.
The EPA said electric vehicles cause more pollution than ICE. Electric cars are way heavier than their counterpart, so they wear out tires and brakes much faster. Modern ICE vehicles put out almost no pollution, so the majority of the particulates in the air now are tire and brake dust.
Would anyone take this over the Honda Navi at $1800? And (re)charging a battery is usually not CO2 neutral until we have the ability to plug in to solar panels... and charge in minutes. However, the guy in front in the brown jacket seemed to be having a blast...
About outsourcing the pollution this isn't the case at all. A energy plant is much more effective than a combustion engine, also if you guys are using coal or similar to generate electricity that's not on bmw is it? Lots of reasons to love gasoline bikes for sure but let's not pretend they are better for the environment.
The battery would be dead or inefficient in 4-6 years of decent use. A gas powered scooter will last decades, and costs half that. Just buy an eBike, which is more efficient, costs FAR less, and does not require insurance, taxes etc.
The real question is, what is wrong with the 16-year-old riding in front of you? When I lived in Japan I had a 1980-ish Honda Gorilla that was awesome to motor around the back streets.
My biggest gripe about a battery that can’t be removed is how am I supposed to store the bike in an unheated garage through the winter when temps in the garage get down around 10 degrees F?
Everybody talks about autonomy, but that’s not the point. The point is about how long it takes to charge the battery. I could live with a 30 miles autonomy as long as I can charge at every gas station and if it would charge within 3 minutes... but the reality it’s far from that. So no thank you! 😉
I'm imagining this is just something that BMW has to do to satisfy corporate average fuel economy standards. Or something similar. They wouldn't build this if it wasn't for governmental regulations. This bike is for a select few consumers, at best. I wonder what the environmental damage is per unit created. From raw material sourcing to production to shipping the final product, I'd be willing to bet that it far outweighs the benefits that CAFE standards or similar regulations were designed to produce.
You keep a gasoline powered generator in your apartment and bring it outside to charge your mini bike. 😲 Their name is the only thing going for this thing.
The sad reality of EVs: there is no known (nor envisioned) battery technology that comes close to the energy or power density of liquid hydrocarbon fuels. Also, a correction to Ian's statement about energy density; energy density is typically expressed in terms of energy per unit of mass (not per unit of volume as Ian tried to explain).
the sad realitity of liquid hydrocarbon fuels: there is a (mostly) known reserve humanity as a whole is tapping from, and it's not being replenished while we burn through it. At some point, it will not only be unsustainable, it will certainly become unaffordable to use fossil hydrocarbons for fuel. SolidState batteries powered by renewable sources will have to replace most ICE's in transportation devices at some point.
I enjoy shifting. I do not enjoy automatics or not being able to shift. It’s just boring. Electric vehicles also have oil and bearings in their motors and transmission, along with coolant and pumps and 90% of all the other things that ICE vehicles have but are way more complex with all the electronics and (sometimes) plumbing. I would definitely rather ride around on a $3000 1977 Vespa than this, but that is just me.
I'd say you're missing the point on where the energy comes from to charge it. The point of an electric bike is the lack of tailpipe emmissions in a city/urban environment and therefore I believe is worthy. Unbelievable comments about 3rd worlds and emmisions when you are are sat in cues of traffic surrounded by huge gas guzzling cars belching out toxic emmisions. There are other ebikes available at less bucks for poorer folk, the BMW is outpriced as you would expect. Not the best review of a ebike.
A huge waste of money. You could buy a really nice E bike for under $2000 that does essentially the same thing. As you said there is no free lunch producing electricity. But how else could you virtue signal?
Even as a kid, sitting in traffic I thought tail pipe emissions were gross and really insane as a society much like it was in the coal age, but there was no alternative. One day we will look back on the last century as incredibly dirty and unhealthy.
On the pollution subject. Another factor at play is how much dirt has to be moved to extract the materials to produce the batteries. It's not a small amount. That takes large mining operations, who use a lot of fuel. For them fuel is their number one expense. And then there is the moral dilemma of the cobalt mines of the Congo with child labor. It's important to know where things come from, and in what manner. Selling an idea, so that people can inflate their virtue status, is dishonest at the very least.
These electric bike reviews are like Groundhog Day. Always the same. Too expensive, range too low. Not fit for purpose. I agree with just about everything you said. I will be glad when common sense prevails and the manufacturers aren’t forced into making these stupid electric vehicles anymore.
Common sense is advancing technology, gas powered vehicles are obsolete. People are sick of operating clutches, shifting gears, maintenance, stealerships, valve clearances, chains, all the BS that comes from gasoline vehicles. Electric is the future.
Vehicles such as these and many other Ebikes practicality isn't there,and at $8,000 it's a dead duck,I do not know what BMW are thinking other than the virtue signalist. The other other thing mentioned is that the actual manufacture of E vehicles isn't as "green" as being sold,it just shifts the pollution elsewhere on the planted,no free lunch!
Yeah that is the idea, you can't solve pollution if it is coming from literally every mile on the planet but if all the pollution was coming from ONE source something could be done.
