I like TrilbyH idea, in addition you could compare actual reed sizes cause I've never fully understood which number reed should I use as a beginner and when, if i should, switch and to what
Winner winner! The feel matters a lot, and not just for sound. I was struggling with the student piece (on both horns) and my lines suffered because of it (as you heard I tried to play basically the same way each time).
Dave Pollack Yeah! My guess is that the mouthpiece, like you said, possibly shapes the air that goes into the saxophone (along with other variables like the oral cavity and embouchure). At the end of the day, the air vibrates to make the sound, and the reed is the vessel for the vibration. The saxophone is just an amplifier. I do feel like a good saxophone creates more range of being as sensitive as you want, which is why I assumed #3 was the pro sax, because I was hearing a few more nuanced details you were manipulating within the timbres. The first one was actually my favorite recording, but I felt the third recording left you with more colors on the palette you were free to paint with.
My concept of gear is that it should disappear when playing so you only focus on making MUSIC. While playing the 4C I was constantly thinking about it and fighting with it - that led to poor intonation, technique, sound, time feel, everything. Tone is only a part of it and obviously in person that would be clearer than a compressed RU-vid video (although with good headphones it still sounds pretty decent on here)
This really shows that equipment doesn’t matter. There are no short cuts to being amazing. All you need to do is work hard and practice and you’ll get good.
I thought it was Yamaha sax on 1 and 2 and 10MFan mouthpiece on 1 and 3. I think the takeaway here is that the Yamaha mouthpiece works better with the Yamaha horn and the 10M fan works better with the 10M....
I knew a guy that had a pretty big collection of horns and mouthpieces. He'd analyze what this did with that, and every combination therein... he sounded exactly the same on everything. Better mouthpieces and horns just make it possible to play with greater dynamic range, or just louder... a person's individual "tone" is going to be their sound on anything that will play ok. That said, some higher end mouthpieces will make it possible to play on a horn that's leaking pretty bad. If you're low notes are hard to play on a student level mouthpiece, the horn is probably leaking. It's a good way to check if your horn needs to be serviced.
Yup! And like I said, I believe gear should “disappear” when playing so you’re only focused on making music. With the student mouthpiece, i was constantly fighting it and thinking about it, so it took away from the music.
The first song I was able to guess which was which. The second tune it was a little harder but the Pro + Pro gear is just a fuller and warmer sound. I agree btw with your ranking.
Great video Dave. When listening closely I could hear the difference with you ‘struggling’ (as you say) with the student mpc. You are much more comfortable on the pro mpc. You could also hear a tonal difference in the two saxes, but both had a nice sound, just different.
Ok, I suck at listening but here are my guesses: 1.) Pro horn and mouthpiece 2.) Student horn and mouthpiece 3.) Pro horn student mouthpiece 4.) Student horn pro mouthpiece Again, I'm not very confident in this and they all sounded great to me. It really is 90% technique as long as the instrument functions. Edit: I'll just let myself out...
You sound great on all combinations. I once saw a guy playing a blues in Covent Garden on a traffic cone - no mouthpiece either. Proves a top player can make anything sound good!
The way I hear it is: the mouthpiece is the deal. And the pro MP and pro horn are "better". Just my humble opinion. Thanks for doing fun and informative stuff!
Great playing as always 😍 these are my guesses: 1. Pro mouthpiece student horn 2. Student mouthpiece pro horn 3. Student mouthpiece student horn 4. Pro mouthpiece pro horn
Listening through good headphones 3 was the best but depending what style you were playing it was hard to differentiate that much difference, completely agree on feeling comfortable with the mpc
Thanks for this comparison video Dave. You have given me a heap of hope to keep what I've got and move on. I have been working on my sound for a couple of years now and am finding that my breathing is the problem. Bad habits are hard to break when you are self taught. I play jazz for fun so am not in a hurry. (age is 75), maybe I should be in a hurry). I just needed to know that the problem is ME. Going back to the stock mouthpiece with my Chinese horn has really helped my sound. I use my family members to criticize my playing as well as listening to my self recordings which are full of mistakes. I really appreciate the sharing and playing that all of you master players are providing here on youtube. Even though I can play some complicated stuff, but I'm not satisfied unless it swings, sounds good and pure, and has good phrasing, otherwise el flusho.
I notice a huge difference in my sound when i upgraded from the Yamaha 4c to a Meyer 5 but you sound great on all of them. I see why most pro say that the sound depends on the person not the instrument or equipment
Just found this video and I'm happy to say my guesses on the mouthpiece were right. I couldn't tell the difference between a pro and student horn but the mouthpiece was night and day. The pro mouthpiece allowed for more intense vibrato, more emotion and more dynamic range. Next to it the 4C sounded flat and restrained. That's probably due to the opening. You just can't do as much when you have less space to work with.
2,4,1,3 is my order but it is really hard to tell the difference between all the combinations. It more how the player is and it sounds great because you are a great player. Cool experiment.
got the first 2 right ,then got lost in the music and just enjoyed 🌌🌠 so happy i found your channel ,wich is funny,and extremely musically inspiring,and entertaining too. been binging to get up to date 🤭
great video! I was right with the mouthpieces, but only sure with the combination student saxophon and student mouthpiece. for my opinion the mouthpiece is more important.
I don't play sax. I am a guitar player, singer, played trombone growing up, have learned how to play everything from the harmonica to the trumpet to drums, bass guitar poorly. That being said, I have played in bands with sax players, have done recordings with saxophones and grew up next to a guy who who practice his tenor sax every night in his out building, hearing him play in the back ground for hours on end. Recently, I became interested in learning how to play the barisax, simply because I found it on the side of the road, however it has no mouth piece. I started looking to buy a mouthpiece and saw prices from $25-$1000 and I started thinking, maybe it isn't the instrument that matters as much as the combination. Then again I am a guitar player, and am well aware of all the deluded things guitarists believe that are better that really are not all that important. Thankfully I found this video. The first and 4th sounded like you were running out of air. The second sounded the best to my ears, but I liked it because it had a tad more brightness than the third take. Third was close to second. First sounded the worst by far, however the last take, I could tell you struggled a bit with the combination on the end of a couple of the runs. The biggest difference between the pro mouthpiece and the student mouth piece is appearance. I fully expected the Pro Mouth Piece to be the divider. However, the student mouth piece sounded slightly better to my ears which means, there is no real discernable difference. Any of the sound differences can be explained by other factors. However, I am not in the actual room, and I do know for a fact that recorded sound misses quite a bit and distorts reality in playback. I will take your word for it that the pro mouth piece sounds better, an I suspect if I were to experience the sound live it would be obvious. However, through these small 4 inch computer speakers, fortune favors the high end frequencies. Thanks for this video.
Damn I was close. I got 2 and 4 reversed. So I guessed the horn correctly with your pro piece but got the horns mixed up when you used the student piece. You missed a note on the first clip of setup #4 which made it clear it was the student piece. The differences were subtle though, and I'm listening on a studio quality system. I doubt I could tell on something average. I bet the mouthpieces felt a lot different though. I'd take a pro piece on a student horn any day over vice versa.
Hi Dave! I can’t believe this video is 3 years old! I only just discovered it! I would love for you to do the same but this time with reeds as the variable! I know u did a comparison vid recently with reeds being soaked in different liquids etc, but would love for you to compare great reeds as opposed to really poor ones, fresh ones as compared to one that’s been used for a couple months or more etc, just so we can see how much of a difference the reed alone makes in our overall sound. That would be another fantastic video I’m sure! Also, I loved #1 when I heard it and felt that it had to do with the mouthpiece! 2 and 4 were very obvious in that their tone was a lot thinner, and with less color and depth to the body. I couldn’t tell the difference betw which saxophone was used as well when paired with the student mouthpiece. Goes to show just how impt choosing a good mouthpiece is! After listening to 1 and 3 closely again, I could then tell the difference but it was very minute in my opinion. I wouldn’t otherwise be able to tell on the go. And lastly, you proved the point that the player themselves matter the most. Regardless of how bad the student mouthpiece or saxophone was, you still got a really decent sound out of both setups! A lesser player like myself wouldn’t be able to achieve that level of consistency for sure! Thanks again for a great vid and hope to see that reed comparison someday soon! :)
So this is coming from a semi-pro french horn player rather than a sax player, but I'd order them from best sounding to worst (not that any were bad): 2 sounded best to me, then 4, then I honestly couldn't tell any difference between 1 and 3. Now to play the rest of the video and find out!
The differences are negligible, which just goes to show: develop a solid sound image and practice, practice, practice. Though I guess #3 would be the more comfortable setup for you (as you ended up saying :). And as per usual: great playing! Thanks!
Great video! Believe it or not I actually had number one on both as my favorite. I think it's because I prefer a slightly brighter sound, and the students model sax give you that. I thought it was really obvious that number two and number four you were playing on the beginner mouthpiece.
Ahh! I was 2/4 got 3-4 switched 1+2. But great video I really liked it‼️ Great playing. I agree as well about the mouthpiece point. I think they have a bigger impact with sound and feel. Thanks for sharing Dave!
My guesses were 1) S/P, 2) P/S, 3) P/P, and 4) S/S, so I got the first two incorrect and got the 3rd and 4th correct. My initial assumption was same as yours, that the mpc would be the most influence in one's sound. However, I thought even with the student mpc, you sounded pretty darn good, probably because your fundamentals were firmly developed and already there. I would agree that as long as the student horn is not leaking and functioning correctly, the upgrade in the mpc would be the better than the instrument. Great video, thank you very much!
Pretty close! The differences are even bigger in person - hard to convey the nuance of the sound once RU-vid compresses it down. You can make the student mouthpiece work, but the big upgrade (like you said) should be the mouthpiece way before the horn. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you liked it!
1. Pro mpc pro sax 2. Student mpc pro sax 3. Student mpc student sax 4. Pro mpc student sax Rank: 1, 4, 2, 3 I was super shocked once I saw what the actual results were! The lows on the Yamaha sax sounded rather robust, and I think that led me to associating any brightness I heard with the student models. I definitely think a mpc is what makes the greater sound difference, but comfort and feel should definitely come first imo. It seems to me that comfort in making a sound respond at all is what leads to the most control and flexibility in making any kind of sound you want to make in the end. Timbre in sound is a personal choice to me, so in that regard I wouldn’t consider any option “better” over the other, just different. If I was told I had to play a well-maintained student model Yamaha, I honestly wouldn’t complain!
Thanks for the detailed reply! Very interesting results, hahah. The comfort of the 10mfan mouthpiece BLOWS AWAY the other. The gear should disappear when playing (so all you focus on is making music) and that's what happens playing that. With the 4C, I was thinking about it and fighting with it the whole time, so my overall sound suffered as well as technique, feel, time - everything! The student horn felt perfectly fine in my hands when I had my mouthpiece on it. With the 4C, not so much!
Dave Pollack Exactly! Took me too many years for my liking to figure that bit out, and have been finally settling into a setup where I don’t have to think about what I’m doing as much and can just “do” what I want now. Have definitely noticed that difference in not getting nearly as distracted away from my tone and technique! Ps: if you haven’t picked up a Venova from Yamaha yet, I bet that would be a bit of a fun video to make. Just got a soprano for Christmas; quite a bit of fun, but a bit of a challenge with the stock mpc it’s shipped with!
Interesting experiment. I could pick out the mouthpieces easily as intonation was much better on #1 and #3. However the instrument was a bit harder. It did feel like your lines were much more seamless for 2 & 3 but it was still hard to tell in the blind hearing. Thanks for doing!
I appreciate that! I was definitely struggling to play in tune and make my lines seamless with the 4C - I was worried about the mouthpiece instead of the music! That's why I believe good gear should disappear when you play.
My guess- 1- pro mouthpiece student sax 2- pro sax student mouthpiece 3- pro mouthpiece pro sax 4- student sax student mouthpiece edit- goddamn i actually nailed it. #3 sounds the best to me but you sound damn good on all of them. Pro player matters most ! lol
The Yamaha's are great for a cheap m/p. I blew a 4c, 6c and 7c on Alto - 7c gave a fuller sound. Then I bought a Beechler Bellite 8, fantastic but not very forgiving.
what did u feel when playing the different mps, beside the sound. U sound great to me on all the different set ups. Did the student mps take more effort to play, use the same air. When it comes to mps its all about getting the sound u want versus the effort it takes to get there. I've played mps that give me the sound I like but just can't play them. Usually I can't keep the horn up and running because the chamber may be to large or the tip opening is to large or reed and on and on. I certainly agree that as long as the horn is in playing shape it is the lest least important as far as sound goes. There are a lot of comparisons out there and usually the guy doing them is so good it always sounds good to me. I'd like to see u take on the mechanics of the pmc. For example different baffles and chambers and how and what effect the have on sound and effort. How does resistance or back pressure figure in to the playing. Mps are getting so pricy this days its hard to experiment. I know it all gets down to what where comfortable with and can play but the road to get there is long and full of pot holes. Are expensive worth the money?
Not so sure if my idea is correct or not. I think that for sound that coming out from a horn is a matter of a mouthpiece, and an instrument is more a matter of fingering playability and mechanism. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going to buy my first sax soon and that's my mindset for choosing my first one. Don't wanna make a mistake and regret later.
I think as a general rule that's pretty correct, but there are definitely some horns that sound "different" than others. Ergonomics and build quality though are the main things to look for.
Dave, I love your playing and I would be particularly interested in what you think of the (durable) new synthetic legere 'american cut' reeds. Have you tried them?
I liked 1 & 3 the best and did not like 2 & 4. Needless to say, I was shocked to see that 2 & 4 were the student mouthpiece. Wow...the mouthpiece made a huge difference! The student Yamaha sax even sounded GREAT with the pro mouthpiece.
They all sound the same to me, except some of the setups sound more of tune than others especially on the upper registers, but I’m sure they definitely feel different. Anyways love your playing
1 and 4 sounded the best to me. The lows on 1 and 4 sounded less harsh but other than that they were pretty close. I'm guessing 1 and 4 are the pro mouthpieces.
Apparently the horn matters more, which is the opposite of what I expected. In my mind the mpc is the bit that creates the tone and the horn is the tube that tunes it down to whatever note you want to come out the end.
Honestly I have the same order you have but reverse 2 and 4. 3 sounded like your normal set up with how comfortable you sounded with it (before I knew which was which). 1 sounded great as but I was honestly surprised that I enjoyed myself listening to 2 a lot more than 4.
@@DavePollack That's what I was thinking. I dont really know how to explain it honestly. In the case of 4, I think it could be the two set ups not meshing well for me sound wise.
In my ears, all examples sounded almost the same and they all sound great! Perhaps the differences are more between a setup, the player is more accustomed to (so, I guess, pro plus pro) and the setups, the player is not so accustomed to...
The first notes of the first selection on the third combo sounded out of tune to me, and that threw me. I consistently liked the number 2 combo. Go figure. Not the result I was expecting. Would have to say they all sounded pretty similar: they all sounded like you.
I’m guessing mouthpiece... let’s see. 2134 best to worst. Ok well it looks like I liked the pro sax but the student mouthpiece. So my initial thought was wrong. But student-student definitely sounds the worst. So I think upgrading anything is always better than upgrading nothing. That’s probably the takeaway.
@@DavePollack To summarized my listening... Yea Dave 1&3 is obviously the best but I thought that 1 is the pro M pro S..I reallized from this video that the mouthpiece makes all the difference. Thanks for this video! =)
@@DavePollack There was a pretty stark contrast between the student and pro horn, and less of a contrast between the mouthpieces. That being said, Conns have such a unique sound, even among different pro horns. I'm wondering how much that factored into being able to hear the difference. Would be interesting to put a 16M up against the 10M, or even a Mark 6 against the Yamaha.
Great playing like always, Dave. Although, this time I do have a question. I’ve been on a new horn for a awhile now, and I’ve been looking into vintage horns. I’m torn between the Conn 10m and Mark vi (tenor). What are some good things about each one? Specifically the Conn. I’m already pretty knowledgeable on the legendary Mark Vi.
If you take price out of the equation, the Mark VI blows the 10m out of the water in my opinion. The keywork on the Conn is brutal but the overall tone is really good. The big thing is value- those Conns can be had for a GREAT deal, while the VI’s price is way up there. Depends on your situation for sure!
Dave Pollack thanks for the response, Dave! I’ll definitely keep that in mind. And while on the topic of affordable vintage horns, what are a few that you recommend?
If you love vintage horns, Buescher Big B is also a great choice. My brother just got one for only $1000, plus $250 for overhauling and the result is a fabulous horn with that great vintage sound.
Interesting. I have been wondering the same thing the past 2 days. I am currently using a Yamaha YAS-280 which is freeblowing. I am playing on two mouthpieces, a Selmer S80 C** with a Francouis Louis Ultimate Brass ligature and a JodyJazz HR* 5M and Rovner Dark Ligature with Legere Studio Cut 2.25 reeds and for the past 2 days on my Selmer, I have been having issues keeping it in tune as I am often either a bit sharp or flat and wouldn't stay in tune easily and was trying to figure out why and thought that I didn't have enough resistance in either the mouthpiece, reed or saxophone itself. I tried a 2.5 Studio Cut reed and found it a bit hard to play and got mostly airy sound and have a new 2.25 reed which is a bit harder to play on than my current 2.25 which I have played on since last September., but slightly easier to play than the 2.5 Maybe I need to try different reeds.
Hmm...how do the tip openings/chambers vary between the mouthpieces? (I don't know much at all about them) I don't like to change gear, and the only time I play stuff that's not my normal setup is for videos. It could just be that you got used to 1 setup over the other and it's tough to switch back (or between them).
@@DavePollack The S80 C** has a square chamber and a 1.65mm tip and the JodyJazz HR* 5M has a round chamber which looks a bit bigger than the Selmer and a 1.80mm tip. The JodyJazz is made of harder rubber than the Selmer. The Selmer currently just feels a bit too freeblowing for me. I have played on the S80 for about 6 months and I got the JodyJazz HR* last month so just have to find a reed for it that isn't as bright as the Studio Cut, but so far I like the feel of it over the Selmer.
thanks a lot for the video Dave but dont you think that the right way to blow in a mouthpiece that matters for a good sound please let me know your opinion
Guesses: #1 - Student horn pro mouthpiece #2 - Pro horn Pro mouthpiece #3 - Pro horn student mouthpiece #4 - Student horn student mouthpiece Best-worst: 1. #2 2. #1 3. #3 4. #4 Edit: I at least got 1 and 4 right
1 Pro mouth student sax 2 pro sax student mouth (i'm most sure about this one due to a little sharp pitch but smooth familiar fingerings) 3 pro pro 4 student student
