The sad thing is... these ARE legitimately good scifi concepts that'd feel right at home in almost any GiTS adaptation. A cyborg in a body that looks nothing like their original self and limited memories having to rediscover who they were before? That's a good story! Said cyborg reuniting with their mother who accepts them even though they look completely different as long as it's still their brain? Also a good story. You know what would've been better, though? If she got a new face at the end that resembled her old self. Like if the movie closes with a shot of Rinko or a similar actress turning to the camera, who'd take the reigns in a sequel as the Major's new shell. HECK, you know what would've been a great twist? If the people who made her look white did so on purpose to make her less likely to remember who she is. Like if they did it to confuse her brain and throw her off her own scent, make her question herself even more and not get anywhere. THAT would also be a cool story that asks questions about identity and stuff. And I'm just some shmuck on the internet! How did the people paid to write this movie's script manage not come up with a super easy justification like that?
That actually came up in the anime series and the manga, if you're interested. At one point its dressed that the Major doesn't remember who she/he was and therefore doesn't concern her/his self with gender norms or sexual preference. Like, at one point the Major is 100% okay with the idea that she might find out she used to be dude.
I love that the Japanese brain in a white body thing is successfully baiting SJWs into actually making the profoundly racist argument that brains have races.
The real crime is that they replaced the plot. Instead of a winding plot about the nature of humanity and machines, and the soul, we get a weak sauce conspiracy. Heaven forbid that the audience should have to THINK.
Then Batou calls her on the neural link and she punches him with his own fist for calling her on her vacation time. I would honestly love to see this live-action.
Yes, let's complain about that because the Major is one of the few characters in big name media that is bisexual. Not only did they fuck up on making her a white woman but they also remove her sexuality too? God, it's like they were purposefully trying to ruin the Major
The twist sounds like a last minute change the did after the backlash they got for casting Scar-Jo so they can jump up and down and say "See! See! She was ORIGINALLY Japanese but got turned into a white person! We're not racist we swear!!!"
It doesn't even make sense statistically. If you were randomly assigned the race of someone in the world, you would be more than 75% likely to be Asian, Indian, or African.
Izzy McGee Two problems; First, the government isn't that evil in this movie; it's moreso an evil business that receives government funding. Secondly, you have WHITE scientists and a WHITE business man who decide that the best way to get subjects for their experimental idea is to kidnap runaways (most of them likely asian), and put them into synthetic bodies that likely mirror themselves (both Kuze and Major are played by white actor/actress.) When you think about it, it's actually pretty well thought out.
You know, the problem about how at one point it was meant to be a police team up movie is kinda funny considering that's exactly what went "wrong" with the original movie. See, if you read the manga or watch Stand Alone Complex, it really is about a whole police department full of super cyborgs in which the Major is just marginally more super. It was a lot like C.O.P.S. just without as much stupid toyetic bullshit. But that would have had to be a Netflix series or something.
We all know it (and if you don't, it's time you learn): Rinko Kikuchi... That's the actress they should have gone with. No offense to Scarlett Johansson - she's a great actress, as is blindingly obvious - but this is not a movie she should have been the lead in. And the twist, as you say, makes it insanely clear.
After they've killed all your friends, removed your brain, stuck it in a robot body, burned what was left of your original body, faked your death and erased your entire life from your memories is the robot body's ethnicity really that important. She could like she came from The Simpsons or was an Orion slave girl from Star Trek and it would still be equally horrific.
Gotta say, I don't mind the twist so much. A big part of the theme of GiTS was transhumanism, and one of the questions the original asked was "if your ghost (soul) is put into a completely different shell (body) are you the same person? and, if the answer is yes, then is your original shell even worth anything if it can just be cast off?" So for Mokoto Kusanagi to be put into a shell that's completely different from her original one fits that theme. Is she the same person because her ghost is the same, or is she different because the evil corp turned her into Scarjo (those bastards!) I get that people may find it problematic, but I don't think it's particularly insulting.
There is plenty of cool Asian actresses that could've played Major Motoko Kusanagi like Chiaki Kuriyama (the psychotic schoolgirl from Kill Bill) though there is plenty that speak english too. It's sad and pathetic that Hollywood wants a well known actor or actress to be the selling point as oppose to characters, story or setting. My young brother doesn't like Mad Max: Fury Road but loves San Andreas because it has Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson in it despite the film itself being generic. P.S. This is the second live action remake of a well beloved animated movie to come out this month. First Beauty & The Beast and now Ghost in the Shell. What's next?
Stephen Mc Devitt I may be wrong about this, but I guess the only reason they used said actress is that there aren't really any recognizable female Asian Americans to market the movie. Again, I'm probably wrong but that's my take. Also, Fury Road doesn't have any recognizable stars? Ehem, Tom Hardy and Charlize Theron would like a word...
It's a puzzler alright. How do you find a high profile Japanese actor for an american movie? There's not many around, partly due to a lack of roles for them.
Bob, I was struck by how beautiful this movie was. I think you're crazy for underplaying that. There was clearly so much creativity and time put into many of the even most mundane details. There was a ton of art, just for art's sake, and I loved it. And, really, I think that kind of thing was one of the large appeals of the original GitS.
Well, I'm confused; according to the filmmakers prior to release, they implied that the character's identity would not be Asian, just referring to her as "Major." I'm glad I skipped out on this.
Regarding the twist, I can tell exactly who it came from: Ehren Kruger. Yes, Skids and Mudflap Ehren Kruger, Scream 3 and 4 Ehren Krueger, one of the most tone deaf writers in all of Hollywood was allowed near GitS. And one of the reasons he's so bad is because he thinks he's HELPING. Anyway, this is about what I thought would happen with GitS. It's not great, but it's also not bad enough for anyone to remember ...save for the twist, which has infuriated people even more. And there are also multiple critics reporting that Paramount is trying to control criticism of it during screenings to the point of throwing some people out, which makes me now question the personal character of everyone involved in thing's production.
I do like seeing the ending part and the walls, light switch, door knob are actually painted green. Who needs a green screen, just paint everything green.
Well considering Hollywood is PURPOSELY not casting Asian leads because "plot doesn't require it" well of course the Asians in the west will be pissed.
I think I may have to come to you for my movie reviews from now on. Finally somebody who just fucking gets it. Thank you, dude, for laying it out there, keeping it real, and calling bullshit out the right way.
twist that the Major was a OC male soldier who preferred the female body model for practical uses would have saved this film to be honest, add a stinger they had a past with Motoko.
There's a difference between saying "this should never be remade", and "this doesn't need to be remade". I never agree with the former, but I often agree with the latter because it's usually said about things that were so good the first time that there was no need to fix anything. Ghost in the Shell did not need fixing.
Bob could have also pointed out how GitS inspired video games. There's a ton of similarity between it and Deus Ex. I saw this at a free preview screening at the Metreon in San Francisco, and when the twist came, I was genuinely surprised. I took that as commentary about whitewashing and appropriation of Asian culture. Visually and thematically, it was similar to Blade Runner, which we're getting a sequel to.
That twist actually seems really in line with the themes of GITS. In a world where bodies are totally transient, how can race even be a factor in society?
Aaaand once again this Evangelion fan is glad the live-action movie rights to that franchise are stuck in legal hell thanks to a dispute between Gainax and ADV.
In a future with exchangable body parts, I don't see how it matters. Maybe a throw away line that the heads were made in Europe pr the US. In the original, she winds up in a child's body because it all Batou could find. Masamune Shirow said he always drew her with a more western appearance. The only people who seem to have an issue aren't Japanese.
It only matters if you look at it in the context of the real world and people who may be trying to find work in hollywood and missing out. In the story itself, it's pretty standard scifi, and it would be nice if stories could exist in a vacuum where we didn't have to think about the real world, but they don't and we do.
Can we please drop this whole "well, Motoko doesn't look Japanese in the anime, therefore it's fine!" thing as an excuse for whitewashing? NOBODY IN ANIME OR MANGA LOOKS ASIAN. The only time people look distinctly Asian is if a) they're going for an extremely realistic art style, or b) they're trying to distinctly racially contrast characters, like in Fullmetal Alchemist with the way the people from Xing look versus the clearly Caucasian people of Amestris. It's called an ART STYLE, people. Not to mention said art style is based on making anime/manga designs more palatable to Western audiences because back when the art form first started, Westerns (Americans especially) though Japanese-looking=bad or untrustworthy, because WWII and propaganda.
Strange, I heard Chris Stuckmann said it was a very okay movie. Not that I am caring too much... adaptations never end up good, especially when they are being made by people who have nothing to do with the original.
I found the film super slow, which isn't necessarily a problem as the original film was slow too, but it was also ridiculously predictable. It just kept dragging on, they threw in all these scenes from the original which only really highlighted how awkward the changes they made were. I remember the Major being fairly dead pan in the original whilst on the job (helping to show how professional she was) but having some fairly chummy moments with Batou, but in this film it was just so fucking dour.
Sometimes I wish that a movie like this would have two reviews. One if you've already seen the original and everything ripping it off, and one if you haven't (I've seen the original once, so long ago that literally all I remember was Major tearing her arm off trying to beat the spider tank). Does it hold up if I have nothing to hold it up against?
Based on what you described this sounds more like Aeon Flux and Ultraviolet. Can someone spoil to me if the main character has someone she suddenly cares about that she decides to protect
I was going to excuse Scarlett Johanson getting this role as part of the usual marketing BS strategy to get casual moviegoers' butts in the seats, but then I got to the spoiler part. Holy fucking shit. I am laughing hysterically at how stupidly dense that is, and I hail from the country that produced Slave Tetris without the faintest idea of how that'd look overseas. Holy shit, dude. Just... holy shit. x'D
I haven't seen any of the sequels or series that spun off from the original movie, so how in Earth would I, or anyone else, know that that was a thing? I maintain my stance that, in the context of the bad press surrounding this movie's casting, it's a pretty dense thing to include a twist like that without having at least an inkling of how people who aren't familiar with the source material beyond maybe the first movie will see it. Did they make a statement at any point clarifying that this plot you're talking about is what they were adapting? :/
Huh. Kinda ironic that a video where you catch yourself mispronouncing a word ends with you saying 'Mokoto' instead of 'Motoko'. Not a bad review otherwise. I'm one of those fans who can't wait for this one to just fade away into obscurity.
From a culutural perspective you might say that the twist sucked, but in the film itself it's a great explanation to how they can use an A list actor who is basically the only thing pushing the movie to mainstream, while at the same time keeping the characters origins, also you get that it was the "EVIL CORPORATION" who made her white.
This movie was made to try to have a Black Widow solo without Marvel's permission. This is why they didn't give a shit about being blatant about the white washing or ignoring the best themes of the Japanese original. Can we please stop defending Anime to America adaptations? How many more decades do we have to suffer through to understand this shit never works!
I wish they casted Japanese for Ghost in the Shell and Caucasian for FullMetal Alchemist (not including characters from Ishval or Xing obviously) and yet somehow we got it the other way round.
Referencing Archer whose season 7 just debut on Netflix, yes please lol also a bit meta saying that during the Ghost in the Shell review, a movie that suffers from adapting anime that didn't use enough Japanese actors and Netflix also has an anime its adapting to live action and of course is also white washing
whoisbatman oops sorry about that. It's my favorite anime Death Note! The sucky part is that there's already a live action version of the anime and its awesome and fully Japanese, so the comparison is going to be harsh if Netflix doesn't bring it
Wait a second, from the movie's internal logic, how is kidnapping a japanese kid and putting their brain in an android tone deaf? This is actually one of the subplots from the Laughing Man incident. (TV series 1). How are people getting upset at that? It seems like they (meaning YOU, Bob) are just getting triggered out of nowhere.
That's not even addressing that the bad guy and story are taken from the plot of Season 2 of the series while only having the memorable sequences (minus the parade sequence) from the film to make you think you're watching an adaptation of the '95 film and also sprinkling in a nod or two here or there to one or more of the other films. As for the white-washing, I have so few fucks to give as long as they look enough like the part and there is a way out like the fact the shell is immaterial to the original organic body who bore the name "Matoko".
I remember having a hell of a time watching this on the big screen. I loved the slow pacing, how long the shots lingered, the production values, etc. Then it came out on digital months later, and it became apparent to me upon rewatch that the story was rather weak, and the action scenes weren't as good as I remembered. Still, I'm glad I saw it at the movies, and it's still a good looking mess. Also, after watching Blade Runner 2049 I realized how good this could have actually been.
Bob do you think this is also the reason why we will never see a Nuromancer film? It being the father of so much cyber punk that its fully hollowed out?
“It would’ve been better if it was worse” is probably the perfect way to describe this movie. It wasn’t bad, it was BORING! When I wasn’t trying to keep my eyes open, I was thinking of cleansing my palette with Stand Alone Complex or Innocence. The tone deaf reveal of making ScarJo’s Major actually Japanese all along, didn’t make things better or worse honestly. Didn’t have much to love or hate in this film
y'know for all the talk about how the casting doesn't matter, and casting the 'best actress' for the job, they really do try to make her look a lot like a japanese person, like uncomfortably, to the point where it borders on yellow face, if they'd actually gone and changed her skin colour slightly in post.
Bob I'm really disappointed that you haven't checked out the rest of the franchise of Ghost In The Shell like you did with Power Rangers. Like come on.
Well I'll say had they changed the original setting from Japan to Canada, they could have turned every character white and renamed them without any trouble. Adaptations don't have to share the geographical setting of the original and in this case a change would have avoided many problems. It couldn't really have been in the USA of course since the country where it takes place to be a smaller nation in the sphere of influence of greater powers is part of the fundamental aspects of the story, but Canada seems to fit that well enough. Of course I would have also liked it if all the actors were Japanese, to me it makes hardly any difference.
The twist is actually kinda canon. Or at least it's something I've always felt was implied. The major looks the way she does cause Asians (in anime at least) wanna look as caucasian as possible.
hey bob... about that spoiler, did you know that, THE SAME SHIT HAPPEND IN THE ANIME!!!! (Frankly she dind't look japanese in the movies, anime or manga, when some characters really look like they where)
I was really on the fence with GitS 2017 but I saw it now 3 times and rewatched GitS 95 several times in between. It´s by far not a flawless movie but I think it does right by the scource material. My analogy for what you can expect from GitS 2017 is, for it´s like a good cover-version of a song. Think of Sounds of Silence by Simon and Garfunkel. It´s a masterpiece that stands second to none. Then you have the cover by the Metalband Nevermore. They could have just played the song as it´s written, but that wouldn´t be a good cover because if they´d try to replicate the original, it would be futile. Instead they took the time and made an effort to strip down the essence and the feeling of Sounds of Silence and translate it into their own sound and style, as a singular work of art for their own time and audience. That´s how GitS 2017 feels to me. Like a really good coverversion of a masterpiece.
Doesn't it imply she could be any race in the world? We kind of see this in the cartoons, where she eventually collects a whole assortment of 20 bodies or so that she uses as avatars and disguises for missions an' such. That would've been pretty cool to see in live action.
It kind of makes me sad that people just seem to ignore one of the major themes of GitS Ghosts and the whole philosophy of dualism. Which are really interesting themes with the lesson being that the body is not as important as the mind (or ghost). And then the critics come along and only look at the color of people's skin. It's like they're taking a shit all over the franchise. The movie fails for perfectly good reasons as a bad adaptation of the source material. It has to because it wants to be a Hollywood action blockbuster which doesn't work with the GitS franchise.
Speaking of things you'll see coming 2 seconds after the setup starts... Did anyone NOT see this coming as a lazy hollywood super hero-origin story wearing the hollowed out skin of a much better movie?
I enjoyed it. Yeah, the story is predictable. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it's a fine looking wheel. I may be projecting, but the acting felt solid, with strong moments of subtlety. It looks amazing. I don't believe you are giving polished turds enough credit. Look up Dorodango. I've seen and read most of everything Ghost in the Shell and this felt like I sat down at the theater to watch some Hamlet, and I got me some fine Hamlet. I don't mind if I already know how it ends. I'll admit, it's not as complicated as I would have liked, but then again, the 1997 movie wasn't complicated, it was convoluted. It was Stand Alone Complex that later raised the bar. Yes, it's an origin story, and I'm hoping they make more. We've had how many dreadful Transformer movies now? Michel Bay never got Transformers. But Rupert Sanders gets Ghost in the Shell... I'd order a second course, but tell the chef he doesn't have to hold back next time.
Bob anime characters are technically white in appearance but act and are treated as Japanese, this is done so they can have characters with (round) colored eyes, hair,... so on.
As a big fan of the original anime I found this movie to be very well made. Sure, the whitewashing bit was a bit cringey, but for me it did not spoil the movie itself at all. On the other hand the plot direction was way more clearly laid out in this movie than in the anime. It took me multiple watchings of the original anime to understand the political side of the plot, while it was way cleared in this version so that you could fully get what is happening and why in a single viewing.
I don't see how the twist is "tone deaf". I actually think it makes sense. The whole point to the original was the ship of Theseus: the question of whether a person, rebuilt nearly from scratch was still that person, and if so, at what point (e.g. via the puppet master) can we say that we've built a new person. Extending this idea to race is an obvious logical place to go, and forces us to ask some hard questions about what "race" as a cultural phenomenon really is. Sadly, everyone just wants to bask in the drama rather than answer hard questions, as usual.
I should point out that nobody in japan gave 2 shits about the casting. It was largely seen as most fans of the series see it as 'its a robot body it can look however'. Only americans really cared.
There is a "precidant" for Major Kusanagi having a westernised body. In the original film they say that her body is from a company called Megatech, In the story another cyborg body turns up with "No ghost inside" having the same face as her but long blond hair and a different skin colour. In the Stand Alone Complex series' it is said she has a default generic body model that has been illegaly modded out to help with her "police work" for hacking and defensive purposes. So it is possible that the generic model for her body is that of Scarlet Johansen ;op All jokeing aside I was a bit disapointed they didn't cast a Japanese actress in the role, their excuse is "Star Power" getting people to go and watch it. That is bollocks as the source material is well known enough and beloved enough to not need a star in the role. Most people wait till a movie is out on home release now anyway for them to still want people to go to a cinema, to see if it is a hit or not, is insane now. Lots of movies were flops in cinemas but made massive amounts of money from home movie sales. Example: The movies made by Laikia (Kobo and the Two Strings, Paranorman etc.) have always not done too well at the Box Office but done extremely well in the Home Entertainment market.
I am usually very along the lines of what Bob says about films but not this one I enjoyed it for what it was, Bob seems to be more negative about the film because of the controversy. It is not an accurate depiction. It's very visually rewarding and a joy to watch.
I predicted the spoiler plot twist as something that the studio would never ever do. But my prediction was hoping for more philosophical or aware view of white washing.
Uh, you do know that the original cyberpunk, dystopian, futuristic story is William Gibson's Neuromancer, from which Ghost in the Shell takes heavy inspiration from, right? Which from the same reasons you've stated, will never be adapted because it's been such a source of inspiration and ripoffs than it no longer feels fresh or original.
Here is a Question is the Major actually japanease. I say this because it is set in the future where it looks like there is more than one ethnisity. So the major could be born in Japan but not japanease. Just a thought In the anime i never thought the major was japanease but the anime is set in Japan multi culture people. + scarlet actually looks likes the major at angels
Right then. Well thanks for the reminder that I need to replace that Ghost in the Shell DVD! Ah what a missed opportunity, it would have been far more clever, and appropriate to just have made a complete beat per beat, word for word translation to live action if only to show just how much has been lifted from Ghost in the Shell and affirm it's place as a true classic and source for inspiration.
I had a feeling this movie would be garbage just from watching the trailer. It looks like a shot-for-shot remake but at the same time shows you it isn't. Hollywood is terrible at remaking things people love that they then change. And they're always surprised when people hate it. Long time fans will hate it because of the differences and potential new fans wont show up because of the controversy. The story was almost guaranteed to suck because Hollywood can't write cyberpunk for some reason. Seriously how hard is it to write that corporations are bad, rebels are good, and cyberware is an awesome excuse to do the impossible. And you know the only reason they went with Scarlett Johansson is because they wanted fans to think this was a preview of what a Black Widow movie would look like. The whole enterprise reeked of obvious nostalgia/fan service and you know when they do that the product is probably garbage that only people who need to like it will.
Sir, I've been a fan of your reviews for a while now, and just wanted to say thank you for not shoving "white washing" down our throats with this one. You mentioned it, and moved on. I appreciate it.
just saw I give it a 6/10 not great but good enough that I will rewatch and enjoy my major problem with the film was the loss of the philosophy depth and side charters but the graphics and fight seans were good enough to take the sting out of that
Arguably the best review I've seen lol; I liked the film and as a fan of the original film and all the scene that are exactly out of the anime, but it's overall okay
