MSFS Surround Vs. New Multiview: The Best Sim Solution 

Bless your wife for her support…. I tell my wife would you rather have me at home in my basement sim or about at a bar with the guys? Of course I have no interest in the bar but she bought it 😀

@@rbarlow I used that one when I flew RC every other day. I don't think she'd buy it again. :D

Agree 1000% Russ costs me $$$$$ Every time I watch a video. Took exactly the route you did, now I have a DOF P3, Triple screens, Air Manager, Knobsters, Honeycomb's, TPR pedals, Eye Tracker, Butt Kicker, RTX 4090, and a wish list that's still too big 😊 Had to do A LOT of "honey do" chores 😮 I truly don't understand how Russ doesn't have a larger subscriber base. Everyone into flight sims could benefit from his knowledge, experience and presentation manner.

Actually since the sim stretches the image to make it look correct as the viewing angle increases as you move front center to edge on a flat projection, curved screens actually introduce a small error. Probably unnoticeable. Fon a curved monitor to look perfect you would need to place the viewpoint at the center of the radius of the arc, set the displayed FOV to match the physical FOV, and use a cylindrical projection. That being said, if you measure your curved monitor edge to edge and follow the formulas in the video it will probably look good unless your monitor has an extreme curvature.

I agree and have high hopes XP12 will narrow the gap on scenery. I really don’t need to see my mailbox and driveway in the sim and if I do I can go sightseeing in MSFS. VR implementation in XP11 is definitely better and hopefully XP12 will improve on that. They said they will focus on VR improvements in the first post release update to XP12.

Well to be exact the images produced for monitors in XP/MSFS assume they are going to be on a flat monitor so you would be introducing a small amount of distortion if they are viewed in a curved screen BUT the error for FOVs of 90 degrees or less are probably negligible. The other issue is that the monitors themselves have a radius of the curvature and depending on your selected FOV they may not coincide. This may be negligible too. Aside from the reflection issue you suggest I don’t think it would be worth any extra cost for curved screens.

@@rbarlow Yes I'm starting to understand from another video posted by someone with 3 curved Samsung G7s, that with curved monitors, the angle where the monitor bezels meet ends up being shallower than what it would be if the panels were flat. Eg, if flat panels were set at 60 degrees, and you positioned curved monitors in their place, the angle where the bezels meet might only be 45 degrees from each other. I think that makes it an easier decision - if nothing is to be gained from curved monitors, and it possibly might make it more difficult, then I can save money and have an easier time making it work. Thanks again for all the amazing info.

@@gimbalaxis you got it!

@@rbarlow One other thing I think I figure out how MSFS / Asobo are using the Lateral Offset. I think they are taking the straight-ahead view as Zero, and then the FOV from center to the edge of the side window is the offset. So in your example of 3 windows of 45 degree FOV each, the offset from center is 67.5 in either direction (plus and minus, half the total combined FOV).

Not sure I understand the question… could you clarify?

What is a 180 screen?

@@rbarlow 180 degree screen. Forgot to write degree. But yes, i've seen a couple of setups and im thinking about going the projector route.

@@TheHumanofEarth69 okay I see. With two projectors you would need two screens mounted at a 90 degrees to each other… like in the corner of a room. Your eye position should be centered and perpendicular to both screens. Add a second screen in the experimental multiple monitors settings and rotate the main view 90 degrees away from second monitor. The blend between screens will likely be noticeable since it will be directly forward in front of your instrument panel. With three screens you would have a better forward view.

Plugable USB 3.0 Universal Laptop Docking Station Dual Monitor for Windows and Mac, USB 3.0 or USB-C, (Dual Video: HDMI and HDMI/DVI/VGA, Gigabit Ethernet, Audio, 6 USB Ports) a.co/d/7tUvNVX

I agree but in fairness the currently call it Experimental. So far the experiment ha failed. XPlane has the ability to precisely set Field of View as well as vertical, lateral and roll offset angles for each of an unlimited set of monitors. Definitely a weak point for MSFS

😀

Preaching to the choir…❤️ VR

I also have VR however flying 10h in VR from EU to US is not a good idea so I also use 3 monitors. VR for short flights sure but longer flights NO WAY.

Definitely need this in MSFS

What do you use as a home cockpit? 737? Or GA? Reason I ask because I use Prosim 737 as my aircraft in MSFS and you just get the scenery in front of you. It removes all cockpit elements.

@@gregthegroove A C172 which I need to see wings and cowl / prop without anything else to blend in with my setup. XPlane11 planemaker is great for achieving this...

@@gregthegroove perhaps prosim is making some of the aircraft textures invisible? I don’t think this is part of MSFS but a prosim mod.

@@rbarlow yea I believe so. Prosim just uses the scenery like when you can choose just scenery in XP11

I think Asobo is new to this and don’t know how to approach things from the start. They end up fixing their previous work but usually, as long as MS is willing to pay, the eventually get it right. It just takes time this way.

Nice setup

There is software to map images like FlyElise but it is $$ and cumbersome and MSFS needs all the CPU power it has already without another program.

@@rbarlow correct Russ. I use three projectors on a 470" curved screen with FlyElise warping software. I can promise you "It is cumbersome"! I would also add words like "convoluted", "counter-intuitive" & "complicated", but for those with the perseverance, the reward is an impressive panorama which should suit FS2020 nicely. I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks for sharing this video.

@@davidwilkinson4969 my friend Chuck has the Malibu sim featured in a video I posted and just built a cylindrical screen with 3 projectors and using FlyElise. The end result is quite immersive but he spent a lot of time getting things dialed in. FlyElise makes a product that does what you suggest called Immersive LCD Pro. fly.elise-ng.net/immersive-lcd-pro/?gclid=CjwKCAjwpKyYBhB7EiwAU2Hn2Q0idDs4RJho5N-bR5Kf9h4i3OjfrQoD1uMo7jJQ9Uz5M7_8q1eH0hoCgMsQAvD_BwE The home version is €150 but if they can do it you’d think Microsobo could add it as a feature. I can live with the current setup in MSFS but need bezel correction and scenery only views ( but with wings cowling and prop disc.

I don’t get it. Is that XP11 or XP12? XP12 still has issues but see if it is the same with XP11? Try dumbing down the settings and slowly increase them while noting fps. Does MSFS run okay?

Just keep reducing the FOV until the eye distance is 37.5…. Looks like 53 degrees FOV for 159 degrees total FOV. If you want more wrap around you need bigger TVs

I don’t agree. Set your single monitor to a FOV of 60 degrees and the place it way out there where the edge to edge of the monitor subtends a 10 degree arc. Everything in your sim view will be very tiny (1/6 size) and it will be difficult to line up and stay on the runway. Now match the monitor and actual FOVs and things will be scaled to life size. When they don’t match it just doesn’t feel real in the sim.

Actually the axis of movement is through the center of the screen yet you see the same image on the screen at any eye location only viewed from that angle. If you are off center the visual effect is that you are moving in a crab. This is most noticeable while taxiing or landing on a surface with a straight centerline ahead. Your assertion makes sense. It just doesn’t work. Thanks for your comments.

Air Manager is the panel used.

Actually the projections shown on the screen are for a flat image so a curved screen would need a cylindrical projection. There is a small error introduced using a curved screen but it is probably too small to notice. The more uniform edge to edge brightness will probable be a good trade off for any small distortion introduced by the curve.

No currently the images jump from monitor to monitor. Asobo really didn’t understand how hone simmers use the views and probably never thought of it. They also assumed all monitors would have the same resolution and orientation. You’d think they might have looked at XP and P3D before they started coding. They‘ll fix it eventually….

Yes, it seems strange that they haven't taken much notice of the features of the competition's products. My guess is that Asobo/MS were fixated on photorealistic scenery as the killer feature.

Not sure I follow you completely but the same principles apply both vertically and horizontally. 1) eye centered and perpendicular to the monitor 2) eye positioned where the physical field of view equals the FOV displayed on the monitor. As long as you adhere to rule 1 both horizontally and vertically, the same eyepoint will accomplish rule 2 both horizontally and vertically. This assumes your monitor has square pixels ( same density horizontally and vertically).

@@rbarlow I see two influencing elements on a realistic flight experience 1) A specific vertical FOV visible on the screen For example 40 degrees requires a very specific horizontal FOV which must correspond to the ratio between the horizontal axis and the vertical axis. In my case 1400px vertically and 3400px horizontally, which with a vertical FOV of 40 degrees according to the following calculation 40 degrees / 1400 = 0.02857 pixels per degree The same thing has to be applied to the horizontal plane. In my case, 3400 pixels by 0.02857 degrees per pixel results in a FOV of 97 degrees. This means that every vertical FOV must have an exactly necessary horizontal FOV and my initial zoom is 1-(1400/3400) = 0.588 . This means that the vertical axis has to be compressed by that zoom factor, i.e. shortened, which is best set in the Camera.cfg for the corresponding aircraft, otherwise the feeling of height and distance to the side or to the front would be wrong, say you see yourself parallel to the runway but are actually still hundreds of feet away which would never allow for a good sight flown landing. 2) Match the FOV shown on screen to my physical FOV. I adapt my distance to the given FOV and not the other way around, which of course doesn't work exactly. If my distance to the monitor exactly reflects the vertical FOV on the screen, then the horizontal one isn't quite right. That means I have to find a middle way Either I change the zoom factor now and get distortions in the route or I change my position so that both horizontal and vertical FOV are just a bit wrong, but to come back to my question In FSX and P3D the vertical FOV was fixed at 35 degrees, but how big is it at MSFS? Is it affected by the zoom factor or is it always the same like it was in FSX and P3D It could be different depending on how many pixels the monitor allows vertically? The best format would be a square monitor

No there is only one eve position that can have the geometrically correct view projected on multiple screens.

@@rbarlowOk, is there any way to solve that problem? On the C172 for example the pilot does not sit on the center axis of the aircraft, but slightly to the left of it. I actually just found out that on a single monitor this can be adjusted by just moving the horizontal camera position so the propeller ends up being in the middle of the screen. So one can easily sit in front of it with a buddy and both sit in front of their respective part of the panel. I assume that doesn’t work on a multi monitor setup though for the reason you mentioned.

My first computer had a 9” B & W internal screen on the Macintosh SE. Technology marches on.

Most of the video was MSFS. I used a few clips from XP to show the effects of the stretch toward the edges because I didn’t want to set up surround and then switch back to Multiview as my MSFS is all dialed in. Definitely works for MSFS as I showed in my previous video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iK6pnS0F7gs.html. Currently you can only use the single computer with MSFS as it has no networking built in like XP. You could run Air Manager panels on a networked computer and a pretty low powered one at that. Unfortunately if you want to pop out the nav displays like the G1000 or G530 and others for use in those panels it has to be on the same machine as the sim so you can drag them to the panel monitor. The good news is that most computers with a RTX3070 and above can run the sim on three monitors and two other monitors for the Air Manager panels with pop outs. You may need this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vZfz2qisJ40.html A single computer is much simpler and the latest gaming computers can do the job.

@@rbarlow thanks a lot Russ, sorry for my second question but i really love your setup and i would like to do exactly the same with 3 tv for the view and 2 for the air manager. But how do you drive all of that, 1 computer with 2 video card?, can you tell the configuration you are using (cpu and video card type). thanks ciao

Mine are older 49” monitors and are 4k but I run them at 1080p to get a good FPS.

Costco had them and I know their liberal 90 day return policy is good if you find they have some flaw like excessive input lag. You are right that most of the monitors are 4K but they can easily be run at 1080p…that’s what I do and at sometime in the future your new gpu might support 3 4K monitors at a decent FPS.

@@rbarlow In your opinion, are the 60hz monitors ok for this setup? The costco UHD monitors in that 300-400 range are all 60hz. the 120hz's start at $899. Thanks for explaining things clearly.

Same principals apply. Calculate eye dist based in displayed FOV. You will have a bezel in the middle of your front view. Think of it as setting one as the front monitor and then adding only one side monitor. Mark at Simhanger did a standard HD two monitor setup. Maybe it will help you. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UpTBsCJUng4.html

Settings for the cockpit camera

If they have been rehashed I was unaware of it as I started in simulation only about 8 years ago when I retired from the airlines. Since I have an engineering degree I try to figure things out and then share what I find. This video was added shortly after multi view was introduced to MSFS2020 and even now it is under the Experimental settings. There has been a large expansion of flight sim participants since FS2020 was released and for them it is not rehashing but new concepts. Sorry I seem to have annoyed you. On another subject, I love to know more about you motion platform.