Multi-Class Characters in 5e Dungeons & Dragons - Web DM 

i am sorry 17:15 i love the idea of the skilled monkey. how about i chime in. rogue archetype level 3 scout i think it is gives u survivalist proficiency in nature and survival and also doubles proficiency when u roll for those skills. EDIT: i dont really know if u did made it but in the vid you mention the 16 out of the 18 regular skills so by adding this 2 that should do it i think.

You can actually do this in 7 levels. Take alternate human, with skilled as your starting feat. With 1st level rogue and your background, you have 10 proficiencies at 1st level. Take two more levels in rogue, choosing scout for nature and survival, then three in bard, going for lore bard. You now have 16 at 6th level. Take a level in cleric, choosing the knowledge domain to get two more skills. The character is now a Scout Rogue 3/Lore Bard 3/ Knowledge Cleric 1 with proficiency in every skill in the game.

The Paladin - Assassin - Fighter is so legit, by the way. We had someone in our game try to get the DM to allow it. [He is fairly against min/maxing, but fell for the players "I want it for RP reasons]. He was not allowed to play it for long. I think multi-classing has always been OP. Presently in a game of 3.X, and every player is a caster, with dips for optimization. It's crazy. In 5th they made everything front heavy to encourage "prestige" feeling at early levels, but it has effectively made multi classing mandatory for high power games.

technically if you take sorcerer at lvl X ... and you have lvl 5 spell slots you can learn lvl5 spells

Out of curiosity what do you think of a goliath rogue with tavern brawler

But still... Helm did get a bunch of new followers, champions and faithful because of him. Not exactly a lost for that religion.

That is amazing lik

Unless he took the arcane trickster archetype and/or Eldritch Knight, he wouldn't have had any spells to cast, and even then he had no heals, wouldn't that have been a big red flag?

mlpowers1991 Maybe he just had really high deception?

This is the kinda multiclass that should be allowed. Something that MAKES SENSE! And it makes a wonderful story instead of just being min/max ass bullshit.

Thomas Middleton What do you take me for? A single, level dip..... Actually, that's fairly accurate.

I've been bamboozled

Maromania I love it! Great concept.

JPruInc t's best when you have a GM willing to roll with it and make towns reflect it XD

Hope ya don't mind me stealing this idea

if you don't mind everyone at the table being second fiddle to you and just have tons of stories and interactions revolving only around you and your character development, there jealousy will cause there treachary. i assure you that they'll have the "he thinks hes soooooo great" talk and kill you xD

run the idea as a party with amnesia due to a poison or something

Kapuchu hi, desert elf player here, ranger/druid/rogue multiclass. Flavour to the max!

Druid monk here. Respects the elemental power of nature so much that they're afraid to use that druid magic. Learned to fight by surviving in nature

I'm currently playing Changeling with a Warlock Rogue multiclass. Due to hexblade my main stat is charisma and I've got two spell slots per short rest which are occasionally useful. My character is a complete master with social interaction but aside from that I'm just doing flat out less damage than the other rogue in the party.

Both are good to be honest.

Playing a Paladin Conqueror who decided to take some levels into battle master because he thought what that npc did looked really cool and he was jealous he wasn't able to do it. also he thought it would help him conquer things.

No that would be MAD

yes! XD i instantly thought that lol

It would be great for a Changling and like each class could have a different identity tied to it

I ready that in THE voice

There's a RU-vid video. I think it was the Dungeon Dudes who did it. They determined what a character who took one level in each class would be like. It was, admittedly, absurd.

blahlbinoa It can be fun and very rewarding.

My favorite use of MCing is for thematic characters. Yes, it's possible to build a Fighter/Rogue/Paladin/Warlock monstrosity, but I prefer a 2-class build that fits around a theme.

James Davis thats what I like to do. I made a Cleric/Paladin to be a Doomguide of Kelemvor

in 3rd edition multi class dex based Elven fighter/mage were so insanely OP. They did not have 'tricks' like many of the cool builds, so you were not going to dish out any one-punch kills to dragons. but you could dual wield keen rapiers and be nigh-on untouchable with AC through the roof, DR, misschance etc. The combat buffs they gave wizards to protect themselves (remember 3rd edition wizards were so squishy) on a close combat build character were pretty broken. Ohh and rogue/shadowdancer/cleric. Step out of the shadows and use 'Harm' then step back intothe shadows. That is a nasty build.

I love 'left nerd' and 'right nerd'.

EATGLUEGETSTRONG Right nerd here. I only took a 3 level dip into beards for the 'Warmth' feature.

That, good sir, is most certainly not a 20th level beard. That is 7th level max.

7th level tops. Mayby 5th level beard multclassed into strong neck 2nd level and prestige class into thick hair 1 which nets you a stronger beard without as much beard as straight beard 8 but with less beard over all.

What college beards do you think they are? Lore or Valor Beards?

Rankerquat search for "puffin foreest Abserd"

Abserd can still talk to you because Abserd is amazing and has the warlock skill which allows Abserd to talk to you directly in your mind because I'm Abserd.

Abserd is very powerful!

HELOOoo i am absErd

Were you, by chance, one of the kids who filled their cup with every kind of soda at those "multi-soda machines"?

He had the right idea - it's only good for discussion forums & beer-fueled one-shots with friends.

@@mandisaw But Abserd is soooooo powerful!

The hero we needed

Alexander Adams Yes! great idea

I love this idea!

Please do this. It would be so helpful and fun.

Here's a start, if it came from D&D wiki, it's bogus.

om3ga109 where do you suggest finding good homebrew races/classes

Chad-Solomon Dixon try this. get paladin vengeance(also divine smite for that extra dmg) to lvl something to get summon steed then 3rd lvl fighter champion and the rest barbarian. pick up two lances mount your steed so you can dual wield them and pick the feat mounted combatant and get advantage against any enemy that is smaller than your steed which would be a large mount and crit away. but if you have a druid circle of the moon in your party....well you know longer need to dip lvls in paladin and go for 3 fighter champion and the rest barbarian with two lances mounted on that druid who transformed into bear or any large creature and of course have the mounted combatant feat on deck with either build. your welcome enjoy this broke toon. Your a half-orc with this build for that extra die when you crit

y a large beast? make it a giant elk there huge.

Because Creature Rating (CR) but if the Druid in the party can transform to a giant Elk by all means go for it

at lv 6 they can.

Then find yourself someone who wants to be a Druid and Elk it up lol

intersting

yea rogues get their sneak dice doubled as well as their normal damage dice on crits. The Champion's big thing is increasing your crit. range. As well as getting more attacks due to having levels in fighter. I took dual wilder at level 1, and use whips. so on top of having more crit chances, and more attacks I have reach.

They are right though about things being very easy for multi class characters. Am using the character I just talked about in a curse of strahd game, and the party got through the death house with ease with a few of us multi-classed.

Battle master fighter with an assassin rogue. Sneak attack damage, superiority dice damage, guaranteed crits on surprise, extra attacks and an action surge. 8 attacks, all crits, all sneak, 6 of the attacks dealing 2d10 bonus damage with a bonus effect, including hitting another creature with the same attack. Then do it again next round, minus the d10s and the guaranteed crits and sneak, unless someone makes you invisible. Assuming a 20 dex score, level 16 fighter with the dueling style and level 4 rogue, the damage with a shortsword is 16d6 slashing, 32d6 sneak, 12d10 superiority damage, plus a guaranteed 48 damage, plus another 12d6+24d6+12d10+30 damage to a creature nearby. A max damage of 456 damage with an additional 372 damage to a nearby creature. If we bypass the nearby creature and go for range, we can pick up a hand crossbow and a shield, jump AC by 2, and add sharpshooter and crossbow feats for a bonus attack to deal 18d6+36d6+12d10+135, a max damage of 579 to some unlucky creature from 120 feet away. Multiclassing for stats is a numbers game. DnD is a roleplaying game.

Fighter breaks every class if the multi-class into it due to action surge being the most underrated low-level ability. You get a whole extra action, not attack, an action (of course you can use it for attacks) but this means dashing again, dash then hide, attack and dodge, cast up to three spells in one turn (so broken). My most fun character was a hexblade 5 fighter 3. Get everything back after short rest? Yest please.

that pun is GOLD

Isaac Bankston he beats his enemies into submission with a lute

No! All stone/metal instruments. The lute's strings will break (or at least go outta tune). But picture a steel/magic metal flute 3ft long with spikes or brass on the end. A stone Ocarina with a chain, and a metal mandolin or gilted guitar (for alliteration)for a shield! Just some spitballing.

Puffin Forest?

Wha? Did that guy already do this?? Do you know what vid he has it in?? There's no way someone thought through each instrument! 😡

PingPongPope That psych paper will still be there in twenty-two minutes.

Add Ranger to your skill monkey and you can learn all skills, actually did it with a character. Barely got to play him though.

Allycat Even easier now half elf (2 skills) background (2 skills) scout rogue (6 skills) Lore bard (4 skills) Skilled feat (3 skills) prodigy feat (1 skill) total level: 8 18 skill proficiencies, multiple expertise, and half proficiency in initiative

Sound terrible, almost a chore

Chad-Solomon Dixon I'm playing a bugbear shadow monk assassin in an upcoming game...

JPruInc Well who said Bugberas can't be ninjas?

Chad-Solomon Dixon Volo's actually heavily suggests that bugbears are the stealthy type.

The Watcher Helm Bugbears have always been portrayed as strong sneaks. Nerdarchist Dave

The Watcher Helm my friend played a ranger bugbear with one level in barbarian, it worked well in the rp too because we said the barbarian was his bugbear rage

Mike Gould I like it!

that's such a great idea!

i also do the same thing

Exactly. All of my multiclasses are thematically a multiclass even at lvl 1. It's a part of WHO THE CHARACTER IS not trying to maximize my dice rolling simulator.

I mean, that'd be a hilariously bad multiclass fwiw. I don't know why you'd restrict it.

Ryan Eftink It is a sign of the breaking of 'The First Seal'. The Old Ones return is set into motion...

DrakeMarvell play a half elf, take folk hero (doesn't really matter but prevents overlap) 1st level rouge, 2nd level ranger, 3rd level knowledge cleric, 4-7 lore bard, take skilled. That gives you proficiency in everything, and expertise in 6. All by lvl 7

I was the same way at first and still feel it in places, but you gave to admit 3.5 was NOT beginner friendly. 5e streamlines a lot of mechanics while cutting out those that bog down an encounter and creates more demand for flavor customization. For instance I miss Warshaper from 3.5 as it was a favorite druid option for me and even went as far as creating a homebrew archetype that supports similar natural weapon making abilities. But then as I looked through Druid spells I saw the Primal Savagery can trip and realized it was pretty much what I wanted but with better damage. And then I looked at some other spells and started realizing I could have my shape shifting badass druid all along just by adding my own flare to certain spells. That said my Druid still can't turn into monstrosities so it isn't a perfect world, but considering how many have petrification abilities and the terrible rules for that mechanic maybe it is for the best. My point is 5e is easy to get into, make a character that is still very customizable, and then add your own flare to make them your own. And all without math or spell failure chance! All it takes is two feats or a rank in fighter and your Wizard can rock plate armor safely!

The problem here is that you are confusing complexity for depth. The way you design a system to allow you to create more unique characters isn't by adding more stuff in to bog it down, it's by designing a system with fewer elements in it that are more versatile. If I were to redesign 5e, I would only put 3 classes in to begin with (Fighter/Rogue/Mage) and make those classes more versatile so you could choose what you want. We don't need an entirely separate class to be a Cleric - they're a mage that specialises in Divine magic. We don't need Barbarians to be separate from Fighters, you just choose whether you want your Fighter to take the rage feature or something else.

So AD&D 2nd edition

@@CrashSable Why separate Fighter and Rogue, then? But in that case, why separate Mundane from Mage? "Mage" and "Priest/Healer" are distinct enough roles to be separate, and we could even finally get a mechanical distinction between arcane and divine. Otherwise it'd be weird to require the iconic four-person party to double-dip a class. So then we're just going back to 4e's roles, although they (specifically Fighter) could stand to have a more definition out-of-combat.

Not long now...

Man, I'm new to D&D and I wanted to to that the instant I found out Druid shifting was a thing, lol. Like I feel like I could make a good story out of it, too, for this character who was like a commander in a small militia that got injured in a fight and just kind-of lost a lot of their fighting ability, left their men, fell in love with nature, and now they're being pulled back into combat to help people and like after ___ many Druid levels they finally start getting back into things and learning how to fight in a much less refined way, fueled by nothing but pure, brutal, willpower and dedication. IDK if it would be super effective, especially because I'm planning on just doing Druid until I can get Saber Tooth Tiger form and then moving on, but it's just suck a cool concept and even if it doesn't work, it would just be so much fun to play. Like you just get into a fight, run through shapeshifting uses, and they're like "It's been a while, but I finally found a way to get over my old wounds!" and then they just go Barbarian Rage to the surprise of the other players and they start kicking ass!

Daniel Phipps Ha! Let us know how it turns out.

RutilusMonachus You should watch the whole video before making a comment.

I've always seen Rules as Written as a suggestion. I know not everyone plays that way, but I've encountered plenty of groups that make adjustments to RAW.

Absolutely! Just wanted to drop the FYI for people who might be thinking of taking a similar build path.

Gotcha. Yeah, that's the tricky part with these videos is that everyone approaches the rules from a different perspective!

There is no different perspective. You can only take Resilient once or you're playing a Homebrew.

Incorrect, the feat itself says you can take it multiple times

Glad someone else saw the connection

Tim O'callaghan Super Green!

Multi-Class!

Tim O'callaghan... Leeloo Dallas Multiclass with a Multi-pass

Appropriate too, as she was a multi-class Paladin/Monk.

if the enemies take regular classes it’ll be bad. Goblins doing sneak damage? Hydra’s with action surge??

It honestly depends on the MC. The Charisma Triangle is pretty god tier. The EK-Wiz is a great one. Just because Monk specifically is a great pure option, doesn't mean that there doesn't exist a large amount of powerful MCs.

@@crimcrysari1916 what's the charisma triangle? It sounds like something i need in my life. Bard/sorcerer/warlock?

That is my preferred method unless I have a two-class MC in mind from the beginning (the Oath of Ancients/Beastmaster I mention in the vid).

Chad-Solomon Dixon What...us? We're harmless.

Chad-Solomon Dixon totally true! especially the lower cr creatures are more vanilla, while in tom of beasts low cr creatures have awesome side effects

Or tell your players to stop being fucking murder hobos man. Passive aggressive responses to bad roleplay won't ever fix it, tell them to stop or get better players.

Wolfgang I have no idea what you mean.

He wanted me to multi class because my level 20 barbarian took out a small force on his story but granted my barbarian also shut the door when our druid pulled out a wand that nearly killed him five times.... And let her burn out the spiders.

...I think that last part was just what they said...but angrier. Of course meta gaming was always a problem with my original group and I always sucked at it so I know the feels, but I also try to be humble about it. Mind thus was also 3.5 where the meta gaming was at its peak. Over all I would probably put a limit on number of straight multi-classing, require a narrative reason for it, and means by which for them to acquire or develop those skills, and maybe even a level lock for when they could take their first rank in the new class. Just giving players stuff to compensate for another player's power output isn't always the answer, especially since it makes that player filled left out and targeted as the "problem child". It is fine to talk to them about it but with proper prep it shouldn't be a problem to begin with. If you're playing a session or campaign that allowed for him to power level in the first place than there really is no room for anyone to complain. Not the GM who allowed for it or the players who knew what they were getting into.

Felipe Holanda- Literally have a guy in my party following an online DPS guide to make his character. His character is the epitome of murder hobo.

Felipe Holanda - Agree, I've never been a fan of multiclass, it just leads to min/maxing, unbalanced play and characters who make no sense. Use to make sense to create a Gray Mouser-like PC (former sorcerer turned thief) but the Arcane Trickster covers that.

I disagree on that point. A sorcerer/thief is much different from a Arcane trickster. Firstly arcane tricksters are partially limited in that they are forced to take many spells from 2 specific schools. Next the sorcerer casts with charisma and has a different spell list, not even talking about the difference in what makes a sorcerer a sorcerer (background wise) . I would agree that wizard/rogue may be similar, however not every ex magic user turned rogue is a wizard. That being said I do not allow my player's to multiclass unless it makes canonical sense. Even force them to stay at their present level and quest to seek out a instructor or master so it's like a reward in of it self.

True but I was just talking in general terms as Leiber's 'sorcerers' are actually closer to a wizard. I would allow multiclass if the player convinced me it actually had to do with their backstory/characterization rather than powergaming.

Yes sir. That being said some groups enjoy the munchkin like style of 1st and 2nd edition and if that's their prerogative more power to them.

This video makes a crucial mistake... A Pure Character will always be a fairly strong character... but MC characters CAN be insanely weak. They could lose most significant class features and stat increases making them really garbage... The problem is that there exists a few common insanely powerful options such as the Pal/Sorc that will perform fantastically... but then again there also exists just insanely powerful pure options such as Bearbarian that will make every other character in the party seem like a joke.

Thats why its all about when you take the levels. They even mention in the video that if ur doing a dip you should wait till around lvl5 then take a 2lvl dip. Although starting say fighter for a bunch of proficiencies and basically any starting gear then instantly going into another class for 5lvls then grabbing another lvl in fighter isnt that bad. As you said its not a video game so who cares if your behind a lvl to hit 5. Especially if theres other multiclassers in the party.

@@dominicl5862 Level 5 then 2 level dip still sucks. You're not that bad at level 5-10, but once everyone hits 11, you're behind a tier for 2 levels and have barely anything to make up for it. Being at least one level behind for the entire campaign is also stupid. You're okay most of the time, but every tier jump, when the adventure gets harder (level 5, 11 and 17), you're going to be the most useless character in the party again. The reason you should care about being behind is because it's incredibly hostile to the DM and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing it. Not because the DM can't handle you when you're overpowered, but because they have to constantly baby you while you're underpowered. It completely throws the use of modules out, because they're pre-designed for characters stronger than the one you made and it sucks for homebrew because the DM has to put extra work in to de-power their encounters for your benefit (either in planning or on the fly in session) and it winds up not fun for them because they never get to use the cool monsters they want to - they'll just kill you. It's not even remotely acceptable that the person who has to do the most work at the table has to have the least fun to pander to your selfish behaviour.

@@CrashSable Idk man, a lvl 2 fighter 5 wizard, while not having 1 4th level slot and his 6th lvl school ability, can still run up in full plate with a greatsword, slam someone with booming blade for 2d6+1d8+mod and then with his extra attack because hes concentrating on haste. For another 2d6+mod. The same character on the first round can throw two fireballs with action surge. A little resource dependent but effective, and then he can cast rope trick to regain a 3rd lvl slot, or just cast leomunds for a free long rest. The character can be effective with a multiclass. The dm doesnt have to baby sit anyone. Youre literally straw manning. You just set up the whole "the dm has to baby you" and then burnt it down. If the game is at a high difficulty then optimization or increased death chance is expected at the table. Agreed on upon everyone, and multiclassing is for optimization. The dm doesnt have to baby anyone just because theyre multiclassed.

@@dominicl5862 Okay, let's take this point by point. You think 4d6+1d8+2mod is good? A level 7 pure fighter with the same greatsword is already doing 4d6+2mod without having to concentrate on haste and can do it every round. If we assume Battlemaster, they can already add a superiority die to the attack for an extra d8 for up to five attacks between rests, meaning they have more versatility by being able to spread each use over more time than a single cast of haste and have the extra effects depending on which maneuvers they took, which can completely break a combat encounter on their own if used well. The fighter/wizard gets, at best, 10 rounds of max potential if we assume a fight actually lasts a full minute, they manage to pass every concentration check and that max potential only equals the pure fighter per round if he chooses to use a superiority die on only one of his attacks (he could choose to use them on both). The reality of the situation is that a use of haste is only really going to last a max of 4 rounds, either because the fight is over by then or because the multiclassed character failed a concentration check, averaging as less damage than the pure fighter can do with his superiority die AND not getting any of the extra effects of the maneuvers AND the Battlemaster gets his superiority dice back on a short rest. So in a day with 2 short rests between long rests, the Batlemaster has 15 superiority dice he can use almost whenever he feels like, whereas the Fighter/Wizard (who is only keeping up through use of Haste) gets 3 uses of Haste (because come on, are you really restoring a 2nd and 1st level spell slot on a short rest when you could have a 3rd?), resulting in maybe 12 extra attacks total per day, but only if they don't find another use for the 2nd level spell slots. That's just when we compare to the fighter route, a pure level 7 wizard can do a lot with that 4th level spell slot. Only taking a couple of examples, on the pure combat end, we've got spells like Evard's Black Tentacles which can lock a 20ft cube down, dealing 3d6 bludgeoning to up to (if we assume there's no flying enemies to make it simpler) 16 enemies. Let's be fairer and only assume you got to trap 4 enemies in the cube, which should be doable, that's 12d6 per round for a minute (the same duration as haste), plus any extra damage he can put out by firing cantrips around (assuming he doesn't want to use up other spell slots, which he could, just not concentration ones) and then also restrain enemies and this wizard is less likely to have to make concentration checks as he'll be casting it at range. For a single target, there's Phantasmal Killer which can do 4d10 on that creature's turn (so you can still do extra damage yourself on your turn) for a minute and keeps the target frightened so it won't be approaching you. Do I really need to mention the up to 8 extra attacks you could be getting from Conjure Minor Elementals and how good they can be? Or that that spell lasts up to an hour, so you could keep it up for multiple fights? Then there are the more utility, defensive and/or out of the box thinking options of Banishment, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Wall of Fire and Polymorph... I haven't even had to bring the 6th level school ability into the argument yet (which, admittedly, most of them are for utility, defence and support, so it's harder to make pure damage comparisons for them). You brush the 4th level slot and school ability as nothing, but they are worth far more than Action Surge, equipment proficiencies and a fighting style. Next point. At what point do you really think 2 Fireballs on the first round is ever worth it? You are either ending the fight with one Fireball, or you are using Fireball inefficiently and wasting spell slots. Meanwhile, in those edge cases where you think it might be worth it, Evard's Black Tentacles or Conjure Minor Elementals are always going to be better (but that's right, you don't have a 4th level spell slot yet, because you thought Action Surge was THAT powerful). Now, this is the point where you reveal exactly how much of a scummy player you are. Rope Trick and Leomund's Tiny Hut are NOT free rests to be abused. Any DM with 2 brain cells to rub together can figure out how to punish that behaviour (or at least perform a google search to see how other people get around it) and here's the kicker - THE PURE WIZARD COULD CAST EITHER OF THOSE SPELLS TOO TO EXACTLY THE SAME EFFECT. At what point did you think they were exclusive to a Fighter/Wizard multiclass? I've straw-manned nothing (and I doubt you know what it means). The DM does have to baby a weaker character and those multiclass characters are weaker as you already proved here. They are not optimized, it's just another fallacy that nobody can be bothered to check. Also note that you took an example that I already said was the most powerful version (a 2 level dip in the middle of the second tier of play) try making those same arguments about a 2 Fighter/3 Wizard or a 2 Fighter/9 Wizard and you'll see just how far behind those characters are compared to pure level 5 and 11 characters.