This is great,thank you for taking the time to explain the science of the Iroquois bow . Your video has given me hope, as I was an archer, but due to diabetic problems was no longer able to shoot "European" style. But with your explanation of Native technique, means I can re- learn a different way . Thank you very much for sharing this, you've made an old archer happy again.
Placing the arrow on the inside (European style) was actually extremely common among American Natives, if not the overwhelming majority practice. This is reliably recorded by first hand accounts of various groups, and there is also a huge amount of old photographic evidence that shows that it was ubiquitous.The only groups that we know routinely shoot on the other side are the ones that use a modified thumb draw, such as the peoples of Northern California. Also, if you look at tribal peoples in various other parts of the world (like the Amazon) where the natives still use bows and arrows to fight and survive, inside shooting is incredibly dominant. Basically a universal, common sense practice. One interesting note about the Iroquois re: the anecdote about being able to shoot many arrows in the air before the first one hit the ground: the wording of the story about Hiawatha keeping 10 in the air at once implies that this was achieved not necessarily through just fast loading, but through power. Shooting nearly straight up with a very powerful bow creates a long time of flight.
Brian, please familiarize yourself with the actual Hiawatha legend. Here are two quotes on the matter: “He could shoot ten arrows upward, *Shoot them with such strength and swiftness*, That the tenth had left the bow-string Ere the first to earth had fallen!” -HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_poem.php?pid=278 Paraphrasing Longfellow was Saxton Pope: "Will Thompson, the dean of American archery, writing in Forest and Stream of March, 1915, says very definitely that the feat of the legendary hero, Hiawatha, who is supposed to have *shot so strong and far* that he could shoot the tenth arrow before the first descended, is manifestly absurd." archive.org/stream/Hunting_with_a_Bow_and_Arrow_Saxton_Pope/Hunting_with_a_Bow_and_Arrow_Saxton_Pope_djvu.txt So...the point I made still stands. Power evidently played a role in the Hiawatha feat *in addition* to dextrous reloading. And a good understanding of physics tells us that shooting straight up and powerfully maximizes the time of flight of the first arrow, giving more time to unleash additional arrows.
Also, it's worth noting that prior to the arrival of Europeans (which is when Hiawatha lived), the Iroquois made extensive use of wooden armor and shields, as well as complex forts with moats and ramparts that the early explorers rightfully referred to as “castles”. books.google.com/books?id=Pq0KhfzS4g4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=native+american+armor&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjchrWB2ZXZAhXB6oMKHb9ZCsAQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=native%20american%20armor&f=false They also would sometimes fight in set piece, formal battles, not entirely unlike a lot of the confrontations in medieval Europe. It’s hard to speculate on exactly how much of a role volume of fire, power and distance of fire, and accuracy of fire would have played in their situation(s), but it seems unlikely they would overly compromise one attribute to enhance another. Given the presence of elaborate fortifications that put distance between the opponents, and the use of armor, it makes sense for an archer to be able to cast an arrow not just accurately and repeatedly but with *force* over distance. In the context of the Hiawatha legend, that makes perfect sense. He wasn’t just dextrous. He was strong. The shooting game was just one exercise to help prove that. The Mandan had a similar game, as recorded by George Catlin. Also, a fair number of Iroquois bows in museums are rather long, thought not quite as long as some of their cousins’ the Cherokees, who were known for making long, powerful bows that are frequently compared to English longbows in terms of design philosophy and mode of application (long range warfare and siegecraft). Though obviously the Iroquois (and Cherokee) also had shorter bows for hunting. anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/image_dup.cfm?catno=50%2E1%2F%201742%20A anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/image_dup.cfm?catno=50%20%20%2F%206247%20A www.worldhistory.biz/modern-history/86743-what-are-the-sources-of-information-about-pre-columbian-bows.html [I believe this is an extract from Al Herrin’s book, it’s on my shelf somewhere, but this link is easier to share)
Also worth mentioning that most Native American tribes carved very, very shallow nocks. Most historic accounts describe the bows of the eastern nations as long (similar to English longbows) and the shooting style varied somewhat, but the "tertiary" grip is thought to be the most common as mentioned above. The Plains Nations developed more complex sinew composite bows with the introduction of the horse by the Europeans that would be made shorter for obvious practical reasons. Within a few generations, they would become extremely skilled both at mounted archery and rifle marksmanship. These are massive generalizations still, it is most important to respect that the Native Americans were diverse in culture and traditions.
I see a lot of bowyers and myself tend to run our fingers all around our bows even when they are done, perhaps unconsciously... I think it's a proof of the love and dedication we have towards our craft.
Very interesting video. When I was about 8 years old my father got some hickory wood and make both myself and my brother a bow. mine was about 36" to 38" long. I have no idea what the boundage was. The arrows we used were about 2 feet long. I don't know the exact length. My brother's bow was bigger than mine as he was a lot bigger than me. They both shot very well. I don't remember how we held the arrow on the string, but we both shot from the left side of the bow. Our bows had no pre-curve in them. They were build like short longbows with no handle in the center. So other than being straight bows, they were very much like the bow that you show in your video. I love to learn about the history of America. It's really sad that there isn't more recorded history of the native American people. Thanks very much for sharing this information with us.
Donald Porta I think I will make some changes to the style of the bow. But I will try to stay true to the design of my ancestors design. A few tweaks here and there to come into the new era. I'll let you know how it turns out
do you have dimensions? length of the bow (originally when it was flat), width of bow and thickness of bow? thanks. I like the design, it looks like it would help prevent wrist slap for a short bow like that, and also incorporates a type of really low recuve effect. I would think I would put some sinew backing on it, and it would probably be pretty resistant to breaking with that, while increasing performance.
The pointed tip was done as a functional part of the bow the pointed tip was so it was easier to string up. the tip griped the ground better than a flat ended bow.
Some tribes short drew their bows but not all. The Florida natives for example had huge flatbows "there is no Spaniard who can draw the cord to his face whereas the natives draw it past the ear and make astonishing shots" -Garcilaso de la Vega .
thats a nice style of bow.i once made one but i made it so the upper limb near the tips {recurve} i made it pull out at full draw. it was a awesome shooting bow. for a lighter bow of 40 pounds, itshot fast.
Pretty cool. I grew up in Western NY and an old guy at the lumber yard gave me a bow and arrow set when I was a kid 35 years ago. He showed me how to draw the same style. Not sure if he was Seneca but many people around there are.
Your vidio is the best I have seen so far Donald like you my first bow broke it looked so cool too but already started my next one I could you please show how to put leather for the hand grip thanks brother
What's up dude some really good looking Bows the one I made was Osage orange the last one it was a lot of fun man I still make them when I get the right material
oshage is a hard wood to find in my woods--- the Amish are always getting to it first--- they know it has a great market price, and brings a good price.
The combination of research and experimentation here is impressive! I have heard a lot of conflicting ideas about Indigenous North American shooting techniques, and most of that is from the West. Have you found any written sources for this? ..And if so, could you offer some recommendations? I'd love to learn more.
Beautiful bow! I wonder if it is replica from museum in Toronto, am not sure if it was Mohawk, that shape but with fur on grip and part of limbs, smaller long feathered arrows. Always thought Iroquois used long bows. What if sinew backed or wrapped, would that prevent breakage or add to weight? Nice explaination of shooting smaller arrows. Beautiful video, Donald (Y) Greetings!
This bow came from the Pittsburgh area, the Seneca were there. However all the Iroquois were very similar with their belongings. since they would all gather yearly and intermarry.
The Mohawk used two turkey tail feathers for their fletching and they were " spiralled" around the shaft. Sinew backing would definitely give the bow more power and it would prevent it from breaking. I have done many sinew backed short bows and none have broken at a draw length of 28 inches. Mohawk bows were not sinew backed though.
hey Donald. Are you strapping the native bows into the form while they are still green or are you letting them dry out on the form and then steaming them or using dry heat on them to put the reflex in?
I'm steaming the green wood, then strapping on the form and leaving it in the form for a few days. It will hold it's shape then. however I'm not flexing the stave until I'm sure it is completely dry, then I start the tillering!
5tonyvvvv of course it can. Hickory Ash absorbing humidity is their drawback though. Which leave a lot of other good woods. Elm, Mulberry locust their are alot even Oak.
rhddragon commented a couple of years ago that placing an arrow on the inside of the bow was probsbly the most common way of shooting by native Americans. I’m no expert on this but know that Douglas Spotted Eagle (see books he has written about making Indian-style bows and arrows) would disagree with this statement. And I shoot as he recommends, always have.
Shished!!!! That’s the shape i was aiming for, what hung u with it it seems long, but just hand allen short recurves, beautiful deflex reflex. have to try with ash no hickory, red oak. you said it was short, same sorta size as a horse 48-54”?
Interesting seems to be very much like the Plains Indians. Perhaps they shot the bow like the Plains Indians? Try firing with the Comanche Grip, Draw, and Release.
Eastern Woodland tribes would draw past their chin. Read Spanish accounts of meeting their longbow. The Powhaton tribes has bows in which they were similarly fired like how the Europeans fired theirs
I would have liked to have shipped 10.000 Lakota worriors 10.000 cheyenne worrors. 10.000 Apachies .worrors over to England . England would have found out they superior Archers like they thought.
English archery is a very Hive focused shooting style, all the soldiers draw their bows hold them untill given the command, then loose, english longbowmen didnt need to be super accurate as they shoot in volleys at the target. Native archery is very Individualistic, each warrior had to claim their war honours, they had to shoot while running, ducking and on horseback or from stealthy positions. So yes in terms of a man on man native warrior would be more skilled at archery, however in terms of organised battle tactics the english would be superior. Native warriors each follow their heart and do what they want
Rather short, I can see why the previous bows (assuming they are similar lengths) were breaking at "conventional" full draw. From what I been told and my own experience, the maximum draw-length for a traditional bow that could be pulled without risking limb failure whould be half its nock to nock length, which works out to around 21 inches for your bow - around the same figure you cited as a draw to the belly. Is there a reason why the Iroquois bow were not made longer to take advantage of a longer draw? My guess is a shorter bow is easier to heft around and shoot in the thick woods?
yes, and hiding crouched down in brush, a shorter bow has advantage of less movement. less movement is the reason the bow replaced the atlatl, the throwing spear, which had more energy and was just as accurate.
