Music Chat: Call Me Ignorant, But Is This Classical? 

A: "I say, I say, I say! What do you call a German with one car?" B: "I don't know. What *do* you call a German with one car?" A: "Ein Audi"

I can't decide whether I want to laugh or cry...

All this is the result of the abject failure of arts education today. Many young people do not know who Beethoven is. Clue: He's not a dog.

This is just the major's pointless attempt to remain relevant. Long gone are the days of recording major orchestras, performers and conductors. These once-great companies are in trouble; long gone are the visionary music lovers who ran record companies in the past. Thank God for the likes of Hyperion, Chandos, Naxos, and other small labels for their dedicated work. It would be interesting to see a comparison of sales for Moux with the recent Ormandy box.

David, would you consider making us the following videos? (1) A tour of your collection, how its organized, which are your most-prized possessions, etc. (2) Are you an audiophile? What’s the system on which you do most of your listening? Thanks!

This was pure fun and I was smiling all the way! Thank you!

Don’t worry, Dave. All music becomes classical at _some_ point in the future. These labels are just way ahead of their time...

I'm sooo glad you talk about this, Dave... I was considering to write you to ask to do a video on this subject. Universal has really gone astray. If a label like DG has no more space for classical music, its very core repertoire, then where the heck have we come to? All they dare to record (and program in concert halls, same story) is the same repertoire over and over again. I'm in full disdain for the total lack of daring and adventurous spirit. So I'm 1000% behind you here, Dave. I hope Universal is watching this. All I can add is that it has been a while since I purchased disc from any of these labels, apart from older reissues. They lost me a while ago. Great video!

A healthy dose of grumpy cynicism is always a good thing! Great video.

Thanks for brightening up my afternoon..

I cant get over how funny and brilliant your analysis is and how true david . Pure genius . Laughed so hard at the truth . Thanks

I'm glad to see (judging by the video and the comments) that I'm not the only one to be utterly baffled any time I look at DG's list of new releases...

One thing I never understood about the release of live recording is why it takes so long for them to be released (after they've been recorded). Like, Dudamel's Mahler 8 and Barenboim's Debussy waited 3 years, and for what? Whatever sound mixing they're doing on the recordings, it can't be that significant in comparison to the unedited recorded performance (especially nowadays when you can stream in high resolution).

Thank you! It reminds me of Andy Warhol changing the meaning of art: art is trash and trash is art. He's still right apparently. You handled this sore subject very well. "I laughed. I cried. I I wrote a public comment."

Dave, maybe you could release Deluxe versions of your videos! Extended versions as well.

My impression is that Spotify et al playlists are a huge driver of revenue for the labels. A lot of stuff that's sort of in the ambient/classicalish mode is very popular in study playlists, resulting in a small kaching for UMG every time someone plays it, or even better if they just put it on endless repeat (also rather popular for students for studying). A lot of these "Deluxe Editions" are I suspect meant to be impulse buys recognizable to said younger people who have repeatedly streamed these tracks. I could be totally off here, but just a guess.

"Glenn Gould did it." You said it right after I thought it. Though I had the word "even" at the start.

One of the best Hurvitz's ever. Thank you for that!

Universal Group has not been my favorite for a long time now. BIS is my favorite traditional classical label and they release everything in SACD surround sound too, which I love because it makes me feel like I'm in the concert hall.

The marketing blurb is just regulation corporate-speak; this requires one to insert a few words related to music, add some emotion components, and wrap it up with visuals (e.g. landscape, etc). Then, you mix them together in one or more sentences. Chat GPT comes into play. The point is to create a product mostly out of existing material to keep costs down; that way marketing can reach its annual target and receive their annual bonus. Which is the real objective - music is the medium. The "classical" label provides the much-needed sheen of distinction and erudition as in, "this ain't just any music, it's classical, the stuff people who really know about music listen to". Thus we find a niche to resell techno, or rebrand old stock... get rid of ageing inventory and, most importantly achieve or surpass budgeted targets.

Man, you are a sassy you-know-what! Love it!

Dave, I’m hoping beyond hope that your anthemic rendering of Beethoven’s Fifth will be released in the next Universal lists. The virtuosity of the melody you beatbox here is moux to my ears. 😂

A "transformative experience..."? Does that mean listening to it will turn me into a giant cockroach? Seriously, this was bemusing and a little painful. But thank God for labels like Naxos and Chandos, who give us good music without the overwrought marketing hype!

Maybe I'm off base, but I've always thought the term "Classical Music" is a bit contrived. The recording industry needed a way to categorize the genre (which covers hundreds of years) and decided to name it after a relatively short period in music history. On the other hand (and I do sometimes play devil's advocate with myself), I'm not sure any other name (Romantic, Baroque, Renaissance, "serious", "concert", etc.) would be better ... and some could be worse. Come to think about it, most of the other terms the recording industry uses to categorize particular musical genres are equally non-descriptive.

Thank you, I needed this.

We all recognize that the term "classical music" is fraught and hard to pin down. I won't speak for anyone else, but I will say that much of the reason I listen to what's commonly referred to as classical music is that it has withstood the test of time. The truth is that I will never know if most of the people mentioned here are with listening to, because I'm not going to waste the time finding out. Life is short, and I intend to spend the rest of mine taking advantage of the massive collective time and knowledge of others from throughout history to help guide my musical explorations. It's pragmatism, pure and simple.

Very, very true; Everyone observing the business since a few scores has seen this involution.

Thanks for articulating to a tee my own perplexity going back decades. Promotional hype for classical performances as if hailing the second coming of the Messiah! Classical labels appropriating pop artists (remember Vangelis on DG in th 80s?)

I'm of a certain age (5 years younger than you) and yes I roll my eyes at some of this stuff from once very serious labels. Thanks goodness the independent labels have taken up the slack with an ongoing productivity of interesting repertoire even with the pandemic - I mean Hyperion, Alpha, HM, Linn, CPO etc etc are steaming away nonetheless. I don't really have a problem with trying "crossover" type things as such. I mean Radio 3 here had a show called late junction which was very popular and put together Jazz, Classical, indie pop, ambient etc etc in a stimulating sort of way. Someone like Erkki-Sven Tuur is a genuinely interesting example - also Andriessen- of bringing something of Rock music into classical music. And there is that long history of bringing jazz in, in one way or another, by very serious classical composers. This kind of marketing isn't that new, as I'm sure you remember things like "Hooked on Classics" that added beats to popular classics back in the 80s! Also I think the Shankars are actually rooted in "classical music". They used to do these all-night proms when I was younger, improvising on Rags appropriate to the particular hour and this is Indian classical music, just not in the same form/ style as that from Europe. "World music" strikes me these days as a strangely worn-out way of talking about, or categorising, so many different musics, "classical" and otherwise..

Don't be sad that you don't know Moby. Be glad, like Olaf!

Problem is, in nowadays' Market jargon: everything being played on piano and/or strings is "Classical", everything being played on an electric guitar with at least an hint of distortion is "Rock" and every time someone blows into a brass instrument or a saxophone it's "Jazz"... In other words, people often judge a book by the cover, and the "Majors" are very happy to sell them the cover. Anyway, no one will be called "an ignorant" for doubting all of this is "Classical", rather "a Boomer"...

I too have noticed the disturbing trend in naming discs without telling you what the hell is on the recording.

Extended Play (or EPs) are shorter than regular CD length, and usually only available on digital platforms. I think up to 6 short tracks.

"Classical for People Who Hate Classical Music"

True classical music industry is being led by independent labels. Majors only exist through the reissue of boxes and little more. Now, I'll go back to my modest record collection. It's way above this grim picture David shared.

They need to buy the staff to the millenial people. The age of the dinosaurs (like me) has already finished....🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Got through this funny/slightly depressing rant and turned to my email to find an announcement for the new album by one Lise de la Salle on Naive (yes, but with two dots above the 'i') entitled "When do we Dance?" which, according to the accompanying blurb, is "more than a question". The announcement coincides with one by DG alerting us to the release of a new album 'Enargeia' (sic) by Emily D'Angelo who tells us she and DG have 'created a cohesive listening experience. Above all we share a passion for communicating in ways that can move, inspire and connect people.' This is good to know.

Interesting, maybe they are thinking it's trendier to label something classical than jazz or world music. I'm pretty sure Menuhin with Grapelli was always labelled as jazz so maybe the times are changing. We have a similar problem here in the UK where the classical music station spends half it's time playing film scores. Of course if you speak out on it you will be accused of being elitist by the 'anything goes' brigade.

David, I love that the print on your tam tam, when you move your head just right, makes you look like you have horns. So appropriate for this devilish installment.

These releases, their 'packaging,' and in particular their press releases, strike me as the gurglings of the Music Industry ('Big Music') as it's drowning and sinking beneath the surface of the pond. Or, to switch metaphors, crap product just meant to be cheap musical wallpaper. Music for people who have no real interest in music. This sounds like another kind of hell. Too bad Dmitri isn't around to write a shattering symphony about this tyranny of bullsh-.

Did he find his cello? I think I may give these a miss.

Masterpiece.

Brilliant as usual. To answer your question. You are missing your youth😃.

Brilliant video Dave, so entertaining, thank you. I wonder who buys this stuff, I have never heard of most of these people apart from the real classical artists and music.

Hello Mr. Hurwitz. I like when you share your thoughts on the recording industry. Besides being interesting, it's entertaining. I have a suggestion for you. Among the novelties, I recently bought a Naxos 6 cd Thalberg box set by the pianist Francesco Nicolesi. And, a bit like Listz, although less prolific, this one composed beautiful pieces for piano based on well-known operas. I was not familiar with this composer (This year is a Thalberg year- 150th of his death) and these works. I can say that they gave me a lot of pleasures and I imagine that could also be the case for some of your followers on this channel. Regards

Universal has so few bona fide new classical music releases that they have diluted the definition to include anything “unclassifiable”. The same nonsense applies when you look at Tidal or Amazon Music new “classical music” releases. Qobuz and Apple Music however get it right. Go figure! There is no doubt that there are more than enough new classical music releases to keep David and his faithful followers happy!

At least these will save me lots of cash! Well, maybe not the Argerich/Barenboim which does sound interesting-and CLASSICAL!😃

All hail the "classically trained".

One has to ask: who is writing the liner notes these days? The tone suggests someone who has gone to journalism school but who does not know anything about the music, and ditto for the marketing group. Sad. In earlier days, the liner notes were written by experts youself or Melvin Berger, and the decision on which recordings to make were strongly influenced by orchestra conductors and the like. But let's not kid ourselves: a smaller proportion of the audience is interested in classical.😈

Wow, non entitles like Moby etc being used in desperation by add men to jazz up sales, with mindless jargon. I ignore it all, and go back to my unmixed, Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Haydn, Rossini and Verdi. Etc P. Gibson

As soon as I saw the title for this video, I figured it was going to be about Krossover Krap (as I used to call it in those delightful old Usenet days). Very sad that it has turned out to show the decline of the once-mighty Universal Music Group. Not that they haven't flagged before: Decca (London in the US), for example, spent decades building up their reputation as the leading label for opera, and then pissed it away with Russell Watson. Do I need to give more examples, particularly with regard to pretend opera singers? Nope. I move on. I have found that Nazgûl Snezzick-Yedin's, er, Yannick Nézet-Séguin's new album is really and truly a classical one; the listing at DGG's website says: "Works by: Debussy · Chopin · Brahms Scarlatti · Rachmaninoff · Mozart Champagne · Bach · Shostakovich Schubert · Berio · Haydn" and apart from the fizzy wine, everything there ought to be a known quantity to serious classical folk such as ourselves. I wish I could say the same for some of the other releases you mention, but I fear that the geniuses in A&R at Universal have watched Nonesuch's descent into irrelevance (at least where people such as you and I are concerned). Of course, we've seen these trends at the so-called "major" labels for years, which is why the boutique, import, and specialty labels are the ones which get more of my money, for example. (Although I DID go for Sony's magnificent Ormandy box, since I've been openly wishing for it for decades.) Depressing though this video was, you handled it with delightful snark, and I can only hope you give 'em the works (the "'em" being the labels that deserve it) at every opportunity.

I hope we will see the cd covers soon. LOL

Dave: I have a suggestion for a future talk: Whatever Happened to War Horses? The objective measure of a war horse is the number of times it has been recorded. I think 100 recordings would be enough to qualify for War Horse status (?) It's hard to find a reliable data base - but you probably have resources unavailable to me. Off the top of my head, I would guess that the LAST WAR HORSE was (dramatic pause): -- Aaron Copland's Appalachian Spring Suite, premiered by Rodzinski/New York Philharmonic on October 7, 1945 (the full ballet for 13 instruments, premiered on October 31, 1944, is more of a novelty than a war horse). -- In second place is Bela Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra (premiered December 1, 1944). So we have gone 76 years without a new war horse. Contrast this to the 76 years 1869 to 1945, which saw quite a few war horses (an understatement). Of course, there are also a number of war ponies (works with 50-99 recordings) that could mature into war horses in the next few years. Copland composed two additional war horses: Rodeo (1942) and Fanfare for the Common Man (1943), followed by Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra (1944), and Copland's Appalachian Spring Suite (1945).

Yes, Moby is a big deal but I was surprised and rolled my eyes when I saw he had signed to DG. I'm a fan of Moby's music but this is odd. I remember Tori Amos released on DG years back which also surprised me. Yannick Nézet-Séguin releasing a piano album seems COMPLETELY unnecessary. I guess the suits at Universal are desperate? Just before the pandemic, I heard the premiere of a new work by Esa-Pekka Salonen played by the Los Angeles Philharmonic. It took my breath away and I have no idea why it's not been released on a highly promoted album.

David “PR” Hurwitz falls into marketing-spiel hell. 🤣

😄 I suspect money is involved !!!!!!.

Also, the competition of straight forward new releases face fierce competition with a deep library of old but good performances. Think of the Sony Essential Classics. They are usually wonderful and they are always cheap. Hard to go up against them!😡

That was so hilarious! But now I am having a Spenglerian moment!

haha - maybe jazz should take a page from this book - just start labelling everything 'jazz' and your brand popularity (& profitability) will escalate (when your genre's at the bottom, what other direction is possible ?)

Moby on DG My god I took a minute to listen an excerpt on RU-vid Sounds like Afterhour party with a touch of violin... I imaged the face of Mr Hurwitz after the first song lol

Perhaps Chad Lawson's 'classical' album should be titled 'Who knew'?

The artists better have cool names or be sporting cool fashions on the covers just in case the amazing market verbiage doesn't draw in the listeners. Doesn't this go back as far as "Drumroll" and "Moonlight", etc?

“Have you ever seen Moby’s dick?” was a joke my oh-so-mature father liked to tell me when I was studying high school literature. I am familiar with Moby in passing, and while I have no inherent objection to him and ilk collaborating on fusion projects with classical musicians, I doubt the resulting product here is much good. I’m an even bigger jazz fan than classical fan, but the Gunther Schuller Third Stream stuff doesn’t do much for me.

current times we live in

Billie Eilish classical? My foot!

Moby is an electronics guy into ambient music matey!!!!!

Is this Classical music brought by the same people who ruined Star Wars and turned Star Trek into Star Dreck: Puke hard ...

Well I said it before , you should be a stand up comedian for Classical lovers. Did you understand the English you were quoting from? I didn‘t.

What's your take on max richter's four seasons?

2:02 an apt gematria number to say you are funny as. But then you probably knew that. Off to hear the 5th again, Rare they say? Even stoners on the internet have a list of fav "renditions" if you will. . But then you all ready said that, I reiterate, funny! (in a good way that is, nothing so crass as to be mean).

Max Richter is a complete phoney to me. They call these guys 'sound designers' now.

Moux in haste, played at leisure.

These "releases" (from their titles & content to the performers themselves), reek of both ignorance & "identity p*******"; what makes something "classical" is now what you're told to accept as classical, regardless of what it actually "is". Boomers & Gen X'rs practically own all the classical physical content; Millennials & Gen-Z listen to everything (practically) on-line. When I think of "remixes", I think of many musical genres, but NOT classical. When labels have exhausted the release of all mono & stereo recordings of classical works, in all their iterations, this is the result: "classical music" that really isn't "classical". Sad.

...Even your solo A Capella might now also be considered Classical. Grin.

I "hope" that the Beethoven CD finds its "fate" in the trash bin. All this cross over dumbing down is pathetic. Maybe some of it stems from shows such as "Britain's Got Talent" where a panel of celebs listens to a really poor fiddle player murdering The Four Seasons on an electric fiddle and swooning over their amazing talent.

If you don't like Mous your a silly poo - sorry.

Classical music is in advanced decline ... so I guess a new category needs to be created that isn't pop or rap or jazz or new age OR classcal (!), which describes this, nearly 100%, crappy universe of non-categorized music.

I guess the producers of this mess of a list assumed gens X and Z have no interest in actual Classical music.

The Czechs call Beethoven's 5th Symphony "Osudová", which means "fateful". The Germans sometimes call it the "Schicksalssinfonie". When asked to translate this into English in programme notes, I call it "Beethoven's Fifth Symphony" and ignore all that fate stuff.

I don't know if you remember this, but many years ago I sent you a copy of a fly by night company's description of a cd reissue of the Beverly Sills' Rigoletto as "hilarious" based solely on a picture of a clown on the cover. Apparently, the author of that one has once again found gainful employment, this time with a major label group. Your reaction then perfectly describes my reaction now--"OMG."

classical music for texters,vid game players and pixar/Disney cartoon watchers

An avalanche of illiteracy... a disturbing sign of crisis in Decca and DG...

Maybe you should have reviewed the recordings rather than satirizing the titles.