Dufay's motets, especially Nuper Rosarum Flores and Fulgens Iubar... are just fantastic. You can listen to them 100 times and still find surprising details and patterns. And his chansons are superlative, examples Se le Face ay Pale and Helas mon Deuil.
Along with sight-singing and dictation, that first semester of Music History was the most difficult course from my undergraduate days. At that point I'd never heard of any composers before Bach and most of it did sound the same to me so there was a lot of catching up to do. I had a good teacher and lots of resources to study, but a clear intro into this world like you have presented here would have been helpful then. I probably would never have gotten into any of this music if not for that class (and counterpoint), so I'm sure many listeners will enjoy this talk and discover much to enjoy. Thanks Dave.
Dave, thank you for this gorgeous contribution. Being a member of an old music chorus years ago, we practised the solmisation system, which allows us to achieve uncompromised intonation and pure music singing. Many thanks!
Where was this video 50 years ago when I was trying to understand this in a Renaissance music history course????? In a half-hour, you just explained, and in a cogent way, MORE than the "famous" PhD Music History Renaissance Scholar who was "teaching" (and I use this term loosely) the course!
There are several gorgeous box sets on the Ricercar label that cover music from the late Medieval period and Dufay through Palestrina and the early Baroque. Great books in the sets to explain the history.
NPR had a bit called the "Classical 50" which included the following: www.npr.org/2011/07/18/106422142/josquin-des-prezs-luminous-sound. This led me to the Tallis Scholars, hence to Tallis and the English Renaissance composers and then off to the races. I don't have as much time to listen to things as Mr. Hurwtiz, so I'm generally torn between the present and the deep past--looking for new things to listen to after 1960 and before 1500. We have such an embarrassment of riches today.
Thanks for this. I love early music, so I know the ordinary of the mass pretty much by heart, from listening to many hundreds of masses. I discovered the Ockeghem Missa Mi Mi and Josquin Missa Ave Maris Stella when I was in college and I still think both of them are right up there with the most beautiful music ever composed. I would like to hear Dave talk about Heinrich Schutz, (technically early baroque), whose technique in many ways is a consummation of Renaissance style and method, and who was unquestionably the greatest German composer before Bach... yet I've never heard hm even mentioned on this channel. There are numerous box sets and collections reflecting his importance and stature, especially as a great progenitor of the German tradition.
The thing that has always struck me about all these masses on L'Homme Arme is that all this beauty came out of what I consider an ugly, ungainly tune, like something Klingons would sing. I'm glad I wasn't around when it was No. 1 with a bullet, because I would have said so and maybe got my head chopped off.
Thanks for doing this Dave, it cannot be over stated how important this music is and I think we are very lucky to be living in an age where performance of this music has been taken very seriously and singers have specialized in the practice. " Historically informed performance" can be a matter of taste when it comes to Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven, but this music I believe requires specialization because the counterpoint is so important that if things are not done with crystalline clarity the music can have the opposite effect of what its potential is. Even in the last 40- 50 years that groups have specialized in polyphony, the performance style has undergone many changes. Just compare a top group like the Tallis Scholars in the 80's to a group like Tenebrae today and I think the difference is immense. When you touch this subject again I would love to hear what you have to say about the different groups and recordings that are out there in the market. Thanks again, I love your channel (and a couple recordings you despise) I really do learn a lot here, I actually keep notes from your chats and have them with me when shopping for cd's.
Thanks for your perspective on this. I agree that performance styles have changed quite a bit, but I question to what extent any of it "historically informed" in a meaningful way. The only thing we really know is that the way it most likely actually sounded back in the day would be deemed unlistenable and grotesque to our modern ears. All the rest is mere speculation.
@@DavesClassicalGuide that's so funny, right after I wrote this comment I watched this video, that proves exactly what you are just saying, it is all really a matter of speculation, taste, experimentation and performance fashion! However, when I started listening to what we now call "early music" as a teenager and I was discovering recordings it became very obvious to me that a choir that would be great for something like Verdi would probably not bring out the best in Palestrina with that level of volume and vibrato which was happening in some of the earlier Renaissance recordings. "Early Music Sources" is a great channel if you are not already familiar with it. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RLfsUtxvneg.html
@@DavesClassicalGuide For sure! Anyway, thanks for all this that you are doing, it has really expanded my listening experience, so much beautiful music!!
Thanks Mr H - I like the way you used the L'homme armé to illustrate how different the music settings could be, and the developments in music over what was a considerable period of time - there's often a perception It all sounds the same! You're right as well that the church was slow to adopt change, and even when it did there was often a backlash (the Council of Trent spending much of it's time complaining about the use of complex polyphony, and popular tunes...it didn't prevail thank goodness, due in part to Palestrina!). I'd also say if people haven't heard say Tallis' Spem in alium 40-part motet they are really missing out on something extraordinary; the complex textures and waves of sound sounding remarkablely modern in idiom (as is the Striggio piece it's allegedly based on). I've also been listening recently to Victoria (1548 - 1611) and his wonderful setting of the Requiem Mass (1605) in Paul McCreesh's version - amazing stuff. Thanks so much for a great introduction.
Thank you. Wondering if there’s anyone anywhere who can match you for depth of musical understanding through the centuries. The fantasy conversation I’d love to hear would be between you and the late Richard Taruskin, did you ever meet him?
Thank you for the kind words. I never met Taruskin. In his field (Russian music) he had no peer, and he was vastly more knowledgeable that I am generally.
I love this! Only question.. I always considered Mauchot to be clumped in with late Medieval not early Renaissance I know eras overlap etc, but just curious your thought Thanx!!
...if you can find it, on PURE CLASSICS GmbH , MUSICA VATICANA by Pomerium, recorded in a restored Benedictine monastery chapel in Bavaria, is exceptional.
@@DavesClassicalGuide No I haven't. I've been watching your channel for the last few months, trying to keep up. If only there were an index of your 500+ videos, so we could keep track of what's out there. It boggles the mind.
@@fredcasden The search function on my channel home page works pretty well, and I've organized everything into playlists grouped by numerous categories. The result really is a kind of index.
