*Update to my original question:* Apparently the term "manchild" _did_ mean something different back then than it does today. It was used in Revelation 12:5 (at least the King James Version) and was also used in "Manchild," a 1965 James Baldwin short story; _Manchild in the Promised Land,_ the 1965 autobiography by Claude Brown; and the 1975 Herbie Hancock album _Man-Child,_ among others. Today, the pejorative use of the term is in reference to immature men who refuse to grow up. My bad!
This album is awesome. The day I heard World without Heroes I had to have it. I went out and bought the album and loved every bit of it. I really don’t understand why it gets so much hate.
In '03 I met Gene at an in-store and told him my positive opinion of "The Elder". DAMN!! You shouldda seen the dirty look he gave me! (And he wasn't even in his "demon" persona!) BTW: I LUV your classic "bad" album poster at 2:50 !
Thanks for commenting! Yeah, no matter how negative I may be towards parts of this album, I will never have a more negative opinion of it than Gene and Paul do. Some of those interviews I watched in preparation for this video were _harsh._
They tried new territories like most huge artists like Bowie, queen, Alice cooper, pink Floyd,... Have done. This album is great as a concept album in the vein of Alice cooper first solo albums with ezrin too. It s so sad when you try to above the standards and flop like this commercially. I discover kiss discography and I think this is one of their top 5 album from the 10 I got.
I like Music from “The Elder” too. KISS has a lot to offer on many different levels, not just cock rock. This guy should not be able to review on sh*t if he wasn’t even alive at the time of release because he has no idea what the vibe was for the bands and albums! He’s just going on hearsay!
@@donmurray8632 ...I hope you realize how stupid that line of logic is. "You should not be allowed to talk about things if you were not alive at the time it happened." Does that logic extend to other things? Should documentary filmmakers not be allowed to make films about World War II because they weren't alive during the war? Did you not write essays for your history class because you weren't alive when the historical events were happening?
@@THSReviews 😅Excellent point. I've just stumbled upon this video - about to watch it now...looking forward to it. I also enjoy The Elder, even though attempts have been made to condition me to not do so.
Pretty sure Spinal Tap must have played this in heavy rotation when they wrote the film. Kiss was actually the perfect band for a concept album, they just should have had a hard rock concept that featured the band. Something like Gwar, something that evoked the image of Destroyer's cover.
Funny enough, Paul Stanley cited Spinal Tap in his autobiography when talking about this album. To quote his own words, "For a band like ours to be doing something like _Music from "The Elder"_ truly reeked of the little Stonehenge coming down on the stage during _This Is Spinal Tap._ If only we had realized."
I’m with you. Not my favorite album of all time, but waaaay up there. I only got into Kiss a couple years ago, and when I heard “Elder” I didn’t care to listen to any other Kiss album, because Elder was so superior. I thought that if I’m listening to Kiss, I might as well listen to Elder.
Mighty intelligent and wise words being spoken on your comment! I was into Kiss since 1974 and droped them on their butts once Lick It Up was released! Kiss "music from the Elder" is indeed a total "Masterpiece" and it has to be set aside from all their other albums as well. The Elder can't be the best or the worst album that Kiss ever released because it's a total and complete masterpiece all on its own! Thank you to anyone who realizes Kiss "the Elder" is an amazing Masterpiece and is extremely underrated!! Those fools!
I was told this was a soundtrack to a movie that was never made. That's why we probably don't understand the meaning of the lyrics. I actually like several songs on this album.
I have always said The Elder is a great album just not a great KISS album. And as Bob Ezrin said there are some brilliant moments on The Elder but not an album KISS should have done
Nice video, man. I'm a huge KISS fan and I really enjoy this album. It's such a weird listen I can't help but enjoy it, and with songs like The Oath, Under the rose, and just a boy, this album is a very unique listening expereince. I pissed off so many boomers when I ranked all the KISS records and put this one above some of the more beloved records they have released. Though, I'll concede that the story isn't great, and it's not easy to follow, but that never bothered me. Hell, I love Queensryches Operation Mindcrime but I never absorb much of the story when listening, I'm just not that kind of listener.
I disagree with most of what you said at least you keep it funny and interesting. I can see why a lot of Kiss fans dislike it its not party rock ,but I think its kinda fun to listen to.
One of the big reasons the original release of The Elder was a flop is because Casablanca Records re-arranged the track list. The Oath was actually supposed to fall in the middle of the album. There's been a re-release of this with the correct track order. As a Rock Opera it's pretty solid, but the original release messed the story element up. .
I did mention that in the video, yeah. I had a whole section about how they changed the track listing, which is very strange to do on a concept album, where the track order is extra important.
I don’t think the reception would have been much different if the album had been released with the correct song order. The concept is pretty loose at best. There really isn’t much depth or story here. I personally like the album quite a bit. But I’ve always felt that for a concept album there isn’t much concept beyond about a paragraph or two.
If it accompanied a film such as Lord of the Rings, as it was intended, it would have taken off. Great album, wrong time not enough supporting film work to justify it. It's still in my top 5 Kiss studio albums. A flawed misdirected objective but nethertheless a true masterpiece.
I admit Paul's voice can be grating but... Have you ever heard him sing I Still love you? I've seen many voice coaches can't believe what voice control he had. Also did you know he was in Phantom Of the Opera. While I find Paul's voice can be hard to listen too for some people he had one of the best voices in rock.
Welcome back! And congratulations on graduation!! I've heard of this album but never actually listen to it. Glad that I get to see the review to take a deep dive on the album.
A great album. The problem is no one sees it for what it was intended..a movie sound track. As a soundtrack it fits the ,lyrics and music. It's Epic. Why not compare it to all other music soundtracks made by famous musicians.
I want to give you a little different perspective for the lead-up to this album, that the average Kiss fan and even the band themselves don't get about these few years. For the first part of their career, from 74 to 78, the classic era that made them famous, Kiss were releasing 2 albums every year. They were getting so much exposure and constantly talked about. But as we know, too much of anything, no matter how good it is, can get boring or even annoying. So then in 78, they really screw themselves by releasing 4 solo albums and Double Platinum (mostly compilation). The concept is cool, you get to see what each members own personal style and influence is but the timing was bad and the songs on those albums are hit or miss. Add on top of that, the 5th album that year Double Platinum and it was just waaaaaay too much. Dynasty comes out in 79 and everybody says it's a disco album. There is 1 disco song on the entire album. Most people that call this a disco album pretty much lose credibility for not knowing what the hell they are talking about. The songs on Dynasty are bland for the most part and not interesting. In my opinion, Kiss should have taken a break for a few years to make people miss them. You can't miss the things that you always have access too. Next up is Unmasked. This album has a lot of haters for all of the wrong reasons. All of these songs are on par with everything Kiss recorded during the classic years. Peter doesn't play on it. Instead you have the much more skilled Anton Fig. An example of him playing something that Peter was not skilled enough to play is the song Torpedo Girl. Sure it has dumb lyrics and Ace always has the worst vocal delivery of the band but Fig's drumming pattern on this one is top notch. The only song on Unmasked that truly sucks is Two Sides of the Coin. Again Ace with the crap lyrics and delivery. Unmasked did well outside of the US which is an indication of how good the music is on this album and also evidence that Kiss was just oversaturating the US during the previous years. So with all of this leading to crap sales in the US, internally, Kiss thought they had a style problem which is why they went to a concept album. THIS ALBUM IS NOT PROG. It's not filled with odd time signatures, which is the key to being progressive. This is simply a poorly structured concept album with the worst lyrics the band could conjure up. They tried to add depth with other instruments and that didn't work so well but that doesn't make it prog. The fans were used to hearing inuendo lyrics about sex and now all of a sudden they are hearing some sword and flame shit. The 80's would prove those type of themes to be popular. Look at most popular 80's movies or album covers. Fantasy type of shit became hugely poplar amongst the US market. They thought they were on the cutting edge of the future. I'm just starting the part of the video where you talk about the music itself so I haven't heard what you have to say about it. Musically though, I like this album a lot. Adding Eric Carr brought a more aggressive style. He plays double bass on this record which was also cutting edge at the time. They have a good variety of material on this album. They go in a heavier direction with this one. The Oath has that Barracuda style riff filled out with Carr playing is toms along to it. As previously mentioned, double bass in this song. You have darker songs like Mr. Blackwell which could be consider prog. Maybe? You have the traditional Kiss sing along in I. It's mostly chorus to make you repeat the lyrics and it's about empowerment. Reminds me of something cheerleaders of the 80's would have the crowd chanting. World Without Heroes is a clear winner. Gene is great on this song. Side note, I recently saw Coheed and Cambria remake Love Gun. They should have done World Without Heroes. It would have been epic. I wish Coheed would remake the entire Elder album because I think it suits their concept style. That's enough typing for now. I think I've given proper context to the lead up to this album. I'll watch the rest of your review.
18:40 Hooks on this album the entire song of I is a hook. Are you listening or just talking? Also, this is the 10th time that you've mentioned "prog". Which song on here is the progressive one? They all sound like regular rock n roll songs. They are all in 4, nothing odd or proggy at all. What other prog band would you compare these songs to? Under the Rose is a waltz, is that the prog one that you're talking about?
This is an insightful comment. I never factored that burnout would have a lot to do with their downfall. Because I obviously wasn't around at the time, I never knew just how big Kiss was back then, but with multiple albums per year, I can imagine how people would get tired of too much Kiss all at once. It's the same sort of thing we're experiencing with Marvel right now, I feel, and why it's so hard to get interested in new properties from that company. Thanks for commenting!
Also, great call on "World without Heroes" as reminiscent of Pink Floyd! I've heard both for years, and -- after your insightful comment -- I can't believe I haven't made the connection before. Paul's solo definitely evokes Gilmore's sound on The Wall, which makes complete sense with Ezrin producing. And certainly there are other similarities.
Yeah, that was one of the first things I noticed with Paul's solo and Gene's vocal delivery, as well as Michael Kamen's orchestration--he also did work on _The Wall,_ particularly "Comfortably Numb." Thanks for commenting!
Although this album is pretty bad, I think that Crazy Nights and especially Hot In The Shade are worse. The production in those albums are just ear-killers and the songs (avoiding a couple ones) are just horrible. Great video
Somebody gave me a VHS of Crazy Nights that had a few videos. Wow man it's just hollow soul-less instantly forgettable hair rock. I had got introduced with Revenge, that was just a few years earlier. What a lost era.
Ngl, this video kinda inspired me to pick up Music from "The Elder" myself, and while I definitely see some of the problems with it like how it ends before it even really begins (at least from a story perspective) but I like how it's something different from their normal stuff, and personally, I think Paul Stanley gets to show off his full vocal skills on it. I already love his voice as it is, but on songs like The Oath, I think he sounds amazing. Though I do have a rebuttal to the thing said at 15:39, since well....these videos aren't really "whining about kid shows not being as good as in the old days". From what I understand, these videos are just meant to explain why said show started to dip in quality. In cases like Lily's video on Steven Universe, you could definitely find other issues, but even then, just simply ranting on the state of a singular show isn't really a good showcase of being a nostalgiatard.
Im sorry, but the myth of 70s Kiss music being second rate is almost laughable. It wasnt Rush, or Yes, or sophisticated, but there are NUMEROUS songs that have stood the test of decades. Many of them classics. The songwriting was actually superb. The vocals, both Paul and Gene, who is my favorite by a long shot, were tremendous. Peters vocals were even amazing. I mean, seriously, they may have compromised their live performances, due to the over the top nature of the show. But to call the music second rate is laughable. If it was, they would never have been around one decade, let alone 5
Absolutely. Their music -- while not meant to demonstrate technical virtuosity -- was strong in its own right. Many, many classic songs. The songwriting and vocals were great, and the guitar solos (by Ace) were tasteful and very influential on future guitarists.
Also, the video's claim that "none of Kiss were great singers" is questionable. The only one who is not a "good" singer is Ace. Paul and Peter had great styles, and Paul would develop his range tremendously by the 80s. Gene rarely used his voice to its greatest effect. But if you listen to his backing vocals, you can hear that he has great range and can achieve varying tones. He's probably the most underrated singer in the band. Of course, vocal taste is pretty subjective, but I think a case could be made that Kiss had pretty strong vocals overall.
...Look, I was trying to soften the blow so I would be less likely to earn the ire of Kiss fans. Obviously that didn't work. Can't fault a guy for trying, right?
I've grown to like this album more over the years. I would even dare to say it'd be pretty damn good if they could re-cut/edit the songs to remove Paul's falsetto. That just doesn't work. Cringe-worthy.
my favorite Kiss Record im not a big Kiss fan more into UFO Thin Lizzy Motorhead but i think it has good riffs i really Love this record different call me crazy oh well
"It's was a good album just not a good KISS album" - Paul Stanley behind the music episode. Somewhere out there this is somebody's favorite album. Could've been the only one they had like Simple Jack in Tropic Thunder. They love it, deciphered all the secrets, walk it's path. They are the sunshine manchild....or whatever the hell
Well howdy Spaceman! Figured I'd check out this video after you shared it on Discord, and I absolutely loved it! I'm not a particularly big fan of Kiss either (heck, I don't listen to a lot of Rock N' Roll music in general), but I absolutely loved your review! Keep up the good work dude!
It's a half baked concept album (the book about the making of the album gets into why) but I like some of the songs. I also think Genesis "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" is half baked but the musicianship saves it. Elder originally had "spoken word" interludes so we're missing storyline all over this. I think it needed a graphic novel companion book or a TV special, and KISS probably should have used an alias when they released it. It wasn't a divisive album, it just made people feel indifferent about buying it, it was barely promoted - they did a few songs on "Fridays" (a show similar to SNL) and that was it. Cher of all people wound up covering "World Without Heroes", so she was still with Gene when the album was made. Maybe that fake tear was Gene symbolizing the breakup with Cher (she's still on good terms with "Genie", but hasn't talked to Diana Ross in 40 years).
ay good to see you posting vids. hope you didn't forget about that time kiss had a marvel comic book made with there blood in the ink or that time they teamed up with scooby-doo.
You know, I'm getting really sick and tired of people including the members of Kiss themselves putting down "music from The Elder"!! First of all, Kiss members are complete and total idiots for constantly slamming what is essentially Kiss' "Masterpiece" YES!! YOU READ THAT CORRECTLY!!! KISS MASTERPIECE!! I was 10 years old in 1974 when I first heard Kiss before I saw what they looked like with the makeup and at 10 years old the music that Kiss created was incredibly unique. It wasn't average rock music. Yeah they had the makeup and the rockets and bombs and jumping around spitting blood and breathing fire and everything but that's when you watched them. I was more intrigued with listening to them over and over and over again and again and again constantly because they sounded like no one else. The sound Kiss created was like no other band of the time. I'm not going to get into the millions upon millions of albums they sold up until the release of the Elder. All Kiss albums before the Elder stood strong on their own and had their own characteristics to make them complete classics in their own right. I was one of those Kiss fans that DID NOT jump off like like the wimpy fans that thought everything had to sound like Rock and roll all Night or Detroit Rock City. First of all what is wrong with any band or artist wanting to experiment and release an album completely out of their element? The Elder is pure fantasy. I've read some fine poetry in my day and some of it didn't make any sense. So what if some of the lyrics on the Elder don't seem to make any sense or have any continuity to do the lyrics whatsoever? Regardless of which version you're listening to?? I love Yes and my favorite Yes album is definitely Drama. Drama says it all. Or does it? Every single one of the songs on that album have lyrics that you just here and you just sing along to and it doesn't matter because you know it's inspired by a book or a movie or something that one of the band members wrote the lyrics to. How about the album Fragile by Yes? What the hell is the song "Roundabout" about anyway?? IDK know but it is a complete classic! STOP slamming the lyrics of the Elder just because Paul doesn't say something like: Hey baby let's Uhh and party and all night. Wow that's really deep. What will Paul think of next? "Tonight I'm going to give it all to you, in the darkness there's so much I want to do..." WHOA!! Not only does it tick me off that people have to put down the mystical and fantasy inspired lyrics of the Elder but they are seriously missing out on the musical masterpiece! Now, I know that Kiss was seeing a lot of hard times and turmoil within the band during the Dynasty/Unmasked/the Elder and even Creatures of the Night era. In fact, even though all that turmoil was happening the best years of Kiss were 1974 through 1982 ending with Creatures of the Night. Kiss became a completely different entity once the crappy Lick It Up album came out. I cannot stand any album that they recorded after Creatures of the Night. The true Kiss was over once Lick It Up was released and the makeup was removed. Shame on Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons! They should have just created a completely different band and changed their name to something like perhaps: a four-letter word that begins with the letter S and ends with the letter T and rhymes with the word "IT".... The only good thing that they done after Creatures was the MTV Unplugged which I'm proud to say I have on original vinyl. People did not give the Elder a chance whatsoever!! I loved it from the first note to last the very first time I heard it! And I will love it every time I do hear it! KISS "the ELDER" MASTERPICE!!
i've been a massive Kiss fan basically all my life courtesy of my dad... we both enjoy this one to some degree. Dark Light has a shred-tastic solo, Escape From the Island is a ripper too. of course as you said, this was also the debut of Eric Carr. Creatures of the Night makes this look like a joke though.. after that I lost 90% of my interest
fun fact. they tried using A World Without Heroes as a single and in the album's promo commercial ...and yes, crying Gene will never not crack me up, solid as the song is
Yes, I always liked Escape from the Island. The album isn't THAT bad. As always, Ace was the highlight of the album, as always, Paul's singing is the low point.
Bought this record when I was 10 and not well practiced at critical thought or comparative literature. I was surrounded by classic rock (big brothers) like The Who, Aerosmith, Boston, Bob Seger, Rush, Queen, Kiss, and Led Zeppelin, and because this had a narrative LOOSELY woven through it and the grandiose classical interludes (I was learning violin at the time), I liked it because it was unlike anything else I'd heard up to then. I will always tie it to my boyhood "wonder years."
We had VH 3's Once and we have this album had A World Without Heroes. If it sounds like a Pink Floyd cut, then chances are it's going to be a good song and if not, the best. Also, this gives me major "Killroy Was Here" vibes.
The Elder came out in my first year of high school. It was the wrong album at the wrong time. Kiss was considered to be like the mutant ninja turtles by 1981, even though the turtles hadn't come out yet. They went from being cool to being kid stuff. Kiss were dead in the USA at the time after being the biggest band from 76-79. This album only made it worse. The only people who seem to like this album are diehard Kiss fans.
You're exactly right with what happened during that time period. I was 9 when the Elder came out. When Kiss released Unmasked then I seen them on Kids are People Too, they turned into kids band. Of course I enjoyed it being so young at the time but the Elder really confused the shit out of me lol. I felt the songs were weak and dumb and the production was horrible. Years later It was remastered and I do enjoy it now.
I remember getting a good comment on Twitter: "Most bands wanted to be the Beatles. Kiss wanted to be Coca-Cola." With the way they marketed themselves, they _did_ kind of become more commercial-friendly and child-friendly. (This is also after their infamous movie, _Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park,_ which can't have helped either.)
Woof. Can't imagine a band as limited as Kiss trying something as challenging as Prog Rock, yet here we are! I had always heard that this album was a mistake, other than Heroes. Great review as always, congrats and glad you are back.
KISS isn't as limited as their reputation. And those bands that are supposedly so technically superior aren't so technically superior. People create fantasies in their own mind but the truth is usually different. Sure there are technically superior guitarists but that's really just the solos. The rhythms of the songs aren't much different from band to band and those solos don't make a song good.
KISS has the talent but their style lust for women does not mix with prog concept rock. Eric Carr is extremely talented and ace live not studio Slash sounds a lot alike
Congratulations on graduating, an important time in a young person's life. I wish you every success in the future. KISS was never about the depth of musical acumen, more so their music provided a soundtrack to their fantastic live shows. I bought the Canadian pressing of 'The Elder' on its original release date in North America. 'The Oath', 'A Dark Light', 'Mr. Blackwell' and 'Only You' were stand-out songs in my opinion, yet the band's management at the time decided to release 'A World Without Heroes'' and 'I' as singles. Probably their first misstep, and then the disappointment of no tour to support the album. I have always thought KISS could have done a 'lost cities' tour in Canada and the US at the time. Playing arenas in secondary markets which were missed on the Dynasty tour in '79. It was a dude by the name of Tony Powers who originally did 'Odyssey', I happen to like the KISS version albeit not a song to be played live by the band.
Thanks for commenting! I had no idea that "Odyssey" was a cover, but now having listened to Tony Powers' version, it makes a lot of sense. The unconventional chord choices in the song don't fit with Kiss's usual songwriting style, even on the rest of this album. I wonder how this would have fit in with the plot of the album. And yeah, of course management had a lot to do with this album's failure, same hat with the track order being botched.
No problem! The _Plastic Beach_ similarity was the first thing I noticed when listening to this album, so I had to include some mention of it in the video. Glad other people have caught it too!
This one must have hurt to get released. The silent section where you talk about the guitar solo could be felt from the other room. Very entertaining stuff as always. I do like Paul Stanley's vocals in most songs, but I also 100% agree with you.
Thanks for commenting! Yeah, I have to re-upload this _multiple_ times for UMG's bots to leave me alone, and the last time, I had to wait a whole month before I could post it. It's unfortunate, but that's what we reviewers have to deal with. *shrug*
@@THSReviews So Happy Spaceman sir. With Was It Really That Bad back online, could these be up for consideration if your schedule allows them: Diver Down Hot In The Shade Chinese Democracy St Anger A Different Kind Of Truth The 2 van Halen albums would be nice considering both turned 40 this year with the former being one Ed hated himself and the latter being he last album with 3 out of the 4 original members
It‘s One of my favorite KISS Albums ! I Love the Elder Era It‘s a bit different - That’s why i love it ! Gene has also Orchestra on his 1978 Solo Album - it’s actually nothing New on a Kiss Album . I‘m Glad Today That every KISS Album back then sounds a bit different.
I wonder when Metallica called Michael Kamen to do S&M if he started to get flashbacks to this monstrosity. I can see Lars trying to tell him that it won’t suck and that they won’t bury the orchestra in the mix like they did on Nothing Else Matters or just a Jason Newstead bass track.
The moment someone says they don't have good songs or a few. Then I know you don't have a clue. Which results in moving to another video before it started.
Hey, Charles Bronson! I loved you in _Death Wish._ Although I'm pretty sure you died almost two decades ago, much like homophobic insults like yours should have. Later dude!
You would've loved me in the movie White Buffalo...although that White Buffalo would probably get awfully nervous with you gazing at his BIG WHITE BUFFALO BALLS. Peace brah...
Believe or not this is my favourite Kiss Álbum I like Kiss but always face them more as hit Band than Record Band. Creatures Of The Night, for exemple, has a suberb title TRACK. The rest Of the album I simply don't remember much. When I listened to this álbum, even with the TRACK order changed - Sorry Kiss but, for me, this sounds better - I really like the álbum. Sounds great, with one or two songs doesn't keep me much engaged. The Lyrics where a downer? Well I'm Brazilian. English is not my First language and, specially when I Knew the álbum most songs I listened I can't reach the lyrics to follow and mind what they where singing. So, for me, the Sound where pretty amusing. And yeah, as Kiss fan, Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons singing never sound that bad for me (Ace Frehley is and entire diferent stuff...) So - HIP HIP HURRAH!
I was going to post it, but I felt it was in poor taste in the midst of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Don't entirely discount it, though--you may see it released at some point in the future.
17:12 was hilarious 😆 “Guess that’s what happens when you make an album of a soundtrack to a movie that was never made. But the tracks are out of order, and the only way you’d know that is if you read it on Wikipedia WHICH DIDN’T EXIST WHEN THIS ALBUM WAS RELEASED!!!”
This episode and most comments are informative. I combine heart❤️ and knowledgeℹ️. "Music From The Elder" still is music🎶for me. Music I love. And I also love the "mystery" on this album. I don't need a movie or a novel-writer to tell me a conclusive story. KISS is mystique. I imagine the story. This album is KISS. Authentically mysterious. And fascinating.
This review is pretty bad. So many questions which cannot be answered without a movie to fill in the plot. I give the reviewer 1/10 for effort and being narrow minded. I give the Elder 10/10 for originality and KISS 11/10 for trying something different.
As a long time KISS fan I didn’t mind the album it has it’s good points and Dynasty wasn’t a disappointment to all KISS fans I loved it, they changed with the times and that’s what you want from artists they need to grow. Still one of the greatest shows ever.
Since you're not a Kiss fan, Escape From The Island was only Ace and Eric Carr, which was one of the best instrumentals that they had. Kiss only had very few instrumentals anyway
The Elder wasn't a bad record, it was just a bad KISS record. It was not what the fans wanted from them. Fans wanted more pre-Dynasty KISS music not theatrical, mystical mishmash.
The Elder mostly failed imo but I like four tracks, The Oath, Under The Rose, A World Without Heroes and I. I wish they'd let Ace add more guitar parts, the footage of Kiss promoting The Elder on The Fridays show gives a taste of how that might have sounded. Also, their concept for the album was so vague that theoretically they could have dropped some of the more regrettable tracks and replaced them with more harder rocking tracks they had around at the time like It's My Life, an early version of Ace's Breakout and the bonus tracks from the Killers comp.
Some of the fan edits I mentioned at the end add in some of the _Killers_ tracks and other demos from the era. Those may be interesting to listen to--even if they don't entirely make sense with the album's concept, neither does the album as it is for that matter, let's be entirely honest. Thanks for commenting!
So, clearly you didn't watch the entire video, because I literally address the fact that the label changed the track listing in the video itself, at 11:38. I won't hold it against you, but I hope you realize how painfully ironic this is.
If you take away Paul stanley's two wimpy-ass songs off the album, it stands up pretty good. The Oath rocks. Escape from the Island is killer Ace. Dark Light 👍. World w/o Heroes is wimpy but undeniable. Gene's other songs rock -"I" is cheesy af but aren't most Kiss songs? I may be viewing this through rose colored lenses And totally get why people trash the album comma but in hindsight, it's not really that bad minus Paul's theatrics.
That wasn't the original track-listing, you are going by the label's re-ordering, not that it matters. But it did screw up the band and Ezrin's originally-intended continuity.
OK, OK! Hang on, it's a bit of a clichéed opinion to hate this album to begin with. There's a lot of positive things to say about it. Firstly, it's actually the only KISS album with relevant drumming by an actual band member (Anton Fig, never a member, was relevant too, at least in my opinion). Many of the songs are great. "Odyssey" sounds like Alan Parsons Project (weird enough it was Ezrin copying Parsons - if you know much about Pink Floyd you know what I mean!). "The Oath" sounds like King Diamond's Mercyful Fate before their first album, which is kinda remarkable. "Mr. Blackwell" has a phenomenal production. I agree, the track order was a f**k-up of course, and Gene's lyrics were jacks**t! But as a piece of music, it rather stands out in KISS' back catalogue. What else does? It's pretty much "KISS", "Hotter Than Hell", "Destroyer", "Dynasty" and this one. The rest is a copy of a copy of a copy.
Elder seems like a drug trip record conceived by people who don't do drugs. I'd read guitar magazines, so many players cited KISS as an influence. Upon listening to their albums, "this is like Aerosmith or something" The image doesn't match the sound. Elder is just another stab at an identity. I respect them but GOOD GOD they have no shame. 5 bucks says they were debating putting out some gangsta rap in the early 90's.
