Music Rant: Hey Folks! Quit Pissing on Popular Culture! 

“Just because I look out of this window and enjoy the view of the ocean doesn’t mean I can’t look out of that window and enjoy the view of the mountains.” - Charles Ives

My neighbor must think there's something wrong with me. While listening to music in the backyard last week, I went from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto #1 to "The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society".

I "got into" classical music as a kid through movie scores. Luckily kids today can still do the same.

Back when I was working as a classical producer at a public-radio station, our program director thought it would be interesting to go around the room and ask each of us, "What is something about you that would surprise the rest of us?" I said I love country music. Not all of it, naturally. But the good stuff. Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, many more. I can't hear George Jones' "He Stopped Lovin' Her Today" without tearing up. Just the way I tear up over the Act 2 finale of "Otello". What would life be without, for instance, the old Fats Waller records? The Capitol Sinatras? Or, for that matter, all those 90-minutes-or-less old Warner Bros. movies from the '30s? Sometimes you just want Kris Kristofferson doing "Me & Bobby McGee".

True story. Back in the day of record stores, I was looking through the bins and on the other side was the rock section, with three teens looking through those bins. One of the teens rounded the end of the display and the "V" section was there. He shouted to the other two. "Hey, look. Vivalci. This guy is awesome."

Bravo, Dave! I dearly love music in general, not just classical, and I can get as much intellectual and/or emotional stimulation and gratification from a good rock song as I can from a symphony. Different genres offer different things and do different things well. I couldn't imagine a musical life of only classical music for myself.

Thank you very much, Dave. I could never have made it into the world of classical music without my love and appreciation for "popular" music

Wonderful video, Dave. Your brilliance, humor, and easy-going humanity are on full display, and are a few of the reasons I'm addicted to your channel.

New series of videos: Music and Food Pairings

I don't have anything against popular culture. I just don't have time for it. Stacks & stacks of marvellous classical material...more than one lifetime required!

I was waiting for you to whip out some Twinkies, but the shelf life comparison was great! A recurring issue as I see it is that many people are intimidated by classical music and don’t think they’re capable of appreciating it, which, as I try to explain to them, couldn’t be further from the truth.

I agree with LOT of this. I am Admin of a Facebook Metal Group and notice a parallel with that community too. I am a huge fan of both Classical AND Metal - the two cultures share an elitism but the key difference is that Classical sees itself as "high brow/culture" and looks upon Popular Music as being "low brow/culture". Whereas the Metal scene sees itself as counter-cultural and anti-mainstream, and views mainstream "Popular Music" as being beneath it - trash for the masses. Of course the overarching irony is that the "Metal Elitists" would be subject to the exact same snobbery and elitism from "Classical Elitists" because Metal is technically "Popular Music". In the end - it's a false hierarchy - these artforms are NOT in competition, they are in different lanes. Each form of music is simply suited for a different "mode" of listening. Instant gratification and casual enjoyment are both very VALID. We don't need to trash it in order to attract Classical listeners - all we should do is emphasize that there is music out there that takes a bit more time and effort to appreciate but offers incredible rewards for that extra investment of time and effort.

What a joy this video is.

Great talk Uncle Dave! I agree 100%. Grew to love EDM from the clubs but never really analyzing why, I was just having a similar conversation with my little cousin who is down in LA waiting tables and trying to be a DJ, EDM tracks are basically like those massive late-French-baroque chaconnesa that I adore but in 4/4 instead of 3/4, 16-beat chunks instead of 12 of elaboration over a harmonic pattern stretching over 7, 8, 9 minutes to the same hypnotic effect. There is as much artistry in that essentially throwaway stuff as anything the Rameauistes churned out back then.

You're making me hungry.

Much of what we now call "classical music" was the "pop culture" of its day. I believe it was Arthur Fiedler who once observed, "There are only two kinds of music - good music and bad music". Maybe you can do a short talk about some of the "popular" tunes that were "stolen" (or borrowed) from the "classics" - if you haven't done so already. That also begs the question, are works by Schoenberg, Korngold, Gershwin, Waxman, Williams, Bernstein, etc. "Classical" music? LOL. P.S. I have Perry Mason on in the background as I'm writing this.

My guilty pleasure is watching reruns of the Andy Griffith Show… great rant Mr. Hurwitz… I too am guilty of sniveling at the uncultured masses, while I listen to Madonna’s Like a Virgin… thanks for bringing me back to earth. I’m going now to listen to AC/DC Back in Black… rock on!

I discovered Classical Music and The Beach Boys at the same time, in my late teens. At 63, I still love both.

I never listened to classical as a kid. My parents were not necessarily interested in music at all, so we rarely got to hear it, but luckily I had a very adept teacher who introduced us to the world of classical. As a teen I started to listen to pop music along with my comrades, and later at college it was jazz and grunge. Why I have no idea except that's what everybody else listened to maybe? Only now in my 50s do I feel well aquainted with most types of music and I am finally able to just enjoy what ever tickles my fancy.

Thanks. As a music writer who wanted to open minds and rarely slammed anyone outright, this is a great point to remind people up. The other point that always raises my ire is where the comments to a 'classic rock' song often slam the music of today as opposed to when people really played (when the listener was yount). So basically these folks have become their parents who never understood the Beatles, the Stones, or lound music in general. Not a zero sum game! An important mantra for all.

Many people treat classical music similarly to easy listening music. They use it as background music, playing it at very low volume. You can't appreciate Mahler and Shostakovich played at that level.

I love this video. I hate the idea of a guilty pleasure. Pleasure is pleasure and unless it involves actual immorality (defined as hurting others), one should have no guilt about it. I grew up on classical music but was introduced to the wonderful worlds of jazz and pop and rock once I got exposed to popular culture from school friends (I still remember my wonder at hearing the then newly released “Let It Be” in fifth grade). Ever since then I have been keen to expose myself to any sort of music that any group of people find worthy, whether it be rap, Balinese gamelan, Taylor Swift or the Second Viennese School (the last of these still being the hardest for me to digest). And if you’re open to all of it, your life will be immensely enriched and you won’t be spending time fretting about what other people think of your tastes.

Very well said. And I must try those Mega goldfish!

I grew up in a VERY non-classical music environment. But I found Beethoven and Bach on my own and quite by "accident"---doors come along on their own in life. Either we're intrigued and open the door or we move on to another door. And what do you know? I quickly developed a passion for it and become a classical musician and music teacher. My parents and school teachers had zero to do with it. Oh, yes, since I was in a non-classical environment, I also grew up with constant radios playing all the latest pop music. And I learned that there's room for both. Dave, you said it with, "It's all parts of our lives."

Love your work Dave, and this episode particularly! HOWEVER, please for the love of God, maaaybe go a little bit easier on the junk food? 😂

Thank you for this, the spirit of this is very much needed especially to combat elitism in the classical music spaces. One note on a specific timbre of the criticism: the framing of certain pop culture elements as "junk food". Thank you for pushing back on this. Yes, much of it has little musical virtue, but much of it does not, and possesses just as much of it as classical music. The problem is, classical music people often don't apply the same lens to, say, a hip-hop beat, thinking about the musical language and craft involved in making it - they are oversensitive to the relative prominence of rhythm, and they think that this proximity to contemporary dance music makes it "lesser". Beyond the fact that they are chauvinists, they fail to remember that dance or folk music has a long history as an inspiration for, or direct component of, "serious" music - Haydn, Dvorak, Bartok would certainly agree. Listen to what J Dilla does with the fabric of time and space, you will find a great amount of musical ground being broken.

Hi Dave. Long time watcher, first time commenter. I was like you and got hooked on classical music very early. When I got to middle school, popular music was a monolith that represented the world around me and which seemed to bring people together. For that reason, I recall very deliberately seeking out the "best" popular music the way I had always done with classical music, compiling lists of artists (composers) and categorically digesting their oeuvres. To this day, I still don't really like it, but I'm so glad I listened to it because it allowed me to understand my middle-school peers. Anyway best wishes and thanks for the chat.

The corrollary musical snootery I see repeated ad infinitum among old fossils my age is "music back in my day was better than this crap nowadays," or variations thereof, wherein digs are also taken at the younger generations for all sorts of perceived ills and slights, and is usually just a template to engage in passive-aggressive forms of politically regressive complaining, dogwhistling sexism, racism and the like. Some of the jazz being made today, by young people around the world, is some of the best music I've ever heard, but things like that get conveniently ignored, mainly because the complainers haven't bothered to venture outside the bubble of listening only to the same music they did when they were 15 years old in the 1970s.

You can really tell someone is into junk food when their yardstick for shelf-life is a Twinkie ;)

Great video. One can enjoy Mahler, Bruckner, Napoli playing Italian Calcio Championship, Ripley's Believe it or Not, NBA Finals, etc. Absolutely no problem with this! (Almost) everything has a right place and a right time to be enjoyed.

I recommend to anyone the novella Tonio Kröger by Thomas Mann, it's got great thought about how it may be better to enjoy popular stuff and the world that to be the biggest snob of high culture. Beautiful. Masterful as everyrhing by Thomas Mann.

My first records in 1960 (vinyl LP, of course) were Tchaikovsky and Beethoven concertos (2 records) with Milstein and Rachmaninoff Concerto #1 coupled with Strauss Burlseque with Janis and Reiner, bought at RANDOM by my parents when they bought one of those large console stereos, the sound stunning to my completely blank, fresh mind. I remember listening to late night radio and found Beethoven #5 by accident while DXing AM lo-fi radio on my very small Bakelit (registered trademark) radio. How I wish I still had that tube radio. The memories bring me to tears. Classical music has been the center of my life since 5th grade. I took viola lessons and wanted to play orchestras conducted by Bernstein. I was and still am so naïve. As I age out of the human race I had a come-to-Jesus discussion with myself that my enthusiasm outweighed my talent by many tons. Too little, too late.

I don't much care if it's junk food or not, I just wanna eat what tastes good and fills my belly enough for me to take a good nap!

😂😂😂😂I confess I am a classical instant junk listener, 5- 10 minutes, then another thing. I love radio programs where theymix everything (Folk,Pop, classical music, jazz, hip hop etc.). Sometimes with stories. Maybe at some day there will be concert with Brahms and lets say Bartok and then you have taraf de haidoks, a Romani brass band. It can't be mixed enough. And it is evolving. You can see a lot of artists who are not only interested in their own fach.

Life is indeed one long junket.

Yay! Go Dave! Great to get an insight as to what's just out of shot in your natural habitat.

I've enjoyed classical music starting in my teens and never thought of it as "head" music. I just loved it. I never analyzed the Eroica, I just enjoyed the hell out of it. Sure, out of curiosity, I'd read the jacket notes and analyses of the structure of a symphony but rarely thought of it when actually listening. Now, most classical works have been market-tested over several centuries or so. The quality, the "secret miracle ingredient" is built in. I think Wynton Marsalis said something about pop music being candy, which is fun, but real food, nourishment, is in the classics. Not merely "good for you" but delicious. Michelin three star vs. McDonald's. P.S. I enjoy CW a lot, tooling around town or enjoying the summer weather, Waylon, Willie, the Lukes, McGraw, etc.I often think there's no way I could come up with those cool lyrics or tunes. Nostalgia rock is fun too (Beach Boys!) But when I sit down for serious listening, 90% is classical. Including opera which was the pop entertainment of its day, even Wagner. I don't look down on anyone else. But I do feel sorry that they will never know the engrossing joy of Trovatore, Tristan, Nozze di Figaro , or HMS Pinafore (all masterpieces!) Love those Perry Mason reruns, Cannon, Mannix, Matlock! Can't stand idiotic 60s and 70s sitcoms. Now please pass the Cheez-Its. I believe Mega Goldfish is about to see a spike in sales.

Our humble host needs to start a snack foods RU-vid channel in addition to the music one!

I got hooked on Classical music when my mother took me to a concert playing Mahler's 1st Symphony. I was enthralled by the Percussionists at the back of the Orchestra and joined up with the California Youth Symphony Orchestra and learned my trade as a Timpanist

Appreciate this video, Dave. You echo many things I've been saying for ages. In particular I enjoyed your commentary on how even the "cheapest" of products often have dozens of brilliant minds investing immense time and effort and money into perfecting and releasing them for an audience. The same is very much true of pop music. Anyone who thinks pop music is ruled by talentless hacks are completely ignorant of the modern art of production as well as the craft that goes into making a great pop song. There's a reason whyin that most crowded and competitive field there's only a handful of names, like Max Martin, that are able to consistently write successful songs; and it's not because it's something easy to do that requires no creativity or effort. One thing I will push back only slightly on is that I do worry somewhat about the prevalence of "instant gratification" culture/media. There are many studies out there that show that learning to delay gratification by essentially overriding our impulses is good for us. Discipline and thinking/planning long-term is a crucial life-skill when it comes to everything from health to finances. I do agree there's room for instant gratification media (and everything else), but it's the old "everything in moderation" wisdom. Maybe don't ONLY eat junk food, don't ONLY scroll through TikTok on your phone, maybe don't ONLY listen to the Top 40, don't ONLY read schlocky genre fiction, don't ONLY watch Summer blockbusters... you get the picture. I don't think anyone should torture themselves when it comes to media, but maybe step out of your comfort zone and try new and different and even difficult things once in a while. It's good for personal growth.

Thank you! I love classical music too but never understood why some feel they need to attack things that are popular. Like what you like and enjoy!

Nothing to add to that other than, "Well said. Thanks, Dave!"

I love you Dave, thank you!

Nothing wrong with pop culture in its place. The problem is that we're drowning in it. You want to leave room for more satisfying and nutritious fare. No, the typical American cultural diet is not fine just as it is, but it is true that moralizing about music (or food) is likely to be counter productive.

Why does "high" and "low" culture have to compete? If they do, then in the world at large, "high" culture will typically lose, because of the general population's proclivities. To paraphrase Rodney King, "why can't they all just get along?" I'd assume that the bulk of the followers of this channel also listen to a range of music! I'm 59, and I've been increasingly interested in classical music since my college years. My overall music listening in recent years is roughly 30-40% classical music, 20-30% classic rock, 20% jazz/r & b/world music, 10% soundtracks (grounded in multiple genres), and 10% the grateful dead's live music. No one led me to classical music while I was growing up, but I wandered into it. Dave's channel has helped lead me deeper into it! As for, say, food- one can be a strongly health nut/whole/unprocessed foods person like me in terms of diet, and still enjoy a bit of junk food. Same should go for all domains of life. Wouldn't any diet with no 'junk food' be the duller for it?

YES! As someone who loves classical music, but also equally loves Rap and Hip Hop, I believe they can coexist peacefully, and no genre is inherently better or more worthwhile than the other. It's all music at the end of the day.

Hi dave really enjoying this video as a youngster of about 12 years started enjoying all kinds of music the first lp i purchased was Beethoven violin concerto and have loved it ever since they listened to a popular female singer Petula Clark and enjoy her recordings all my lifetime whatever makes our lives more tolerable is surely what its all about so lets not be too snobbish about it

Why is this episode not filed as a Random Review from the Overflow Room? “I regard Goldfish Crackers as one of the highest products of Western Civilization!” Your junk food collection must take up at least a shelf or two.

THANK YOU!

Funnily enough, it is much easier for people to get into classical music now BECAUSE of social media. LPs cost a fortune, CDs cost a bit less, but a kid in his room can get instant access to basically all of classical music for free. So I’m not sure how its social media that is driving people away from classical music.(?)

The usual remark about popular music snobs disapprove is “That’s NOT Music!”-hmm… has melody, rhythm ( lots of rhythm! -and you can dance to it). If it’s not Music, what is it then? Anyway, it’s fun, it’s easily accessible, anybody can enjoy it anytime any place and much of it is Art and not just entertainment. Who doesn’t want to be entertained anyway?

David, I have a personal take on the subject. My local Classical station is useless to me on Sunday nights. Well, the weekend programming in general. But on Sunday nights they give me 2 hours of organ music followed by 3 hours of bluegrass. So I listen to the “Rock” oldies channel instead. They play quite a bit of what I consider junk. But it amazes me how much of it is well composed and produced. I don’t mean to knock bluegrass, but c’mon! And 2 hours of organ? Really? The world of Pop and Rock music is satisfying too. I love.Rock/Jazz too, like Santana and McLaughlin, for example. Does anything beat the Beatles though? I don’t think so!

I enjoy Gilligan's Island without shame, and I suspect that Dvořák would as well. My sideways participation in the youth-led vinyl resurgence - based on thrift-store treasure hunting in search of old Nonesuch albums - has brought me to a new appreciation of the actual quality displayed in that genre I loved to hate: mood music.

I would like to believe you have a huge array of snacks behind the camera every single video 😂

Speaking of Bruckner, I fell in love with his music by accident. I was considering a used copy of Jonas Nordwall's Space Organ (Star Wars, etc. on a pizzeria theater organ) on eBay, and the seller had a "buy 2 records, get free shipping" deal. The price for the Klemperer/Vienna Symphony version of Bruckner's 4th was less that the shipping charge, making it better than free under the circumstances. And you know what? I really enjoy both albums. I even bought some more Bruckner symphonies. I also really enjoy both my Fiedler/Boston Pops cover of Beatles music and my box set of Louis Vierne organ symphonies. And I feel no guilt about any of this.

Man I love what you just said wish I had you as my next door neighbor

Hahaha. Hey Dave, I like junk food too. It’s funny how you happened to have all those snacks just lying around. I used to look down on any type of music other than classical. But studying ethnomusicology showed me worlds of music different to our beloved classics. All with qualities slightly different from what we are used to but no less beautiful and no less musical. I think pop music is also just different but no less fun and no less musical. But the endless procession of snacks coming one after the other made me laugh. 😂

No wonder the cat always hangs around near you 😁

Time to dig out the old "Hooked on Classics" cds without shame........

Op mijn cd-schappen staan cd's van Stravinsky naast cd's van Horace Silver naast cd's van Steely Dan. Ik vergelijk muziek vaak met atletiek. Binnen de atletiek heb je verschillende disciplines; je hebt de loopnummers, de werpnummers, de springnummers... misschien hou je het meest van de loopnummers maar dit wil niet zeggen dat de andere disciplines binnen de atletiek minderwaardig zouden zijn.

Agreed. The best 'pop' music is way better than median-level classical music.

Yes, for me all of music is connected. I was listening to Tears for Fears' "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" the other day and it dawned on me that harmonically the verses sounds like they could have been inspired by Mahler's 9th 1st movement (distilled to simple repeated 'Lebwhol' sigh throughout). I'm not saying Roland Orzabal had this inspiration but it's lovely to imagine these connections between an incredibly complex piece of music and this compact but also beautiful and moving little pop song that most people in my generation would be familiar with.

I am SO on the way to the snack aisle of my local supermarket!

I mostly agree, but there's also plenty of snobbery within each genre. In college, my punk friends looked down on my 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack, and my college piano prof cringed at my enjoyment of Johann Strauss Jr operettas.

I was hooked when I was 4! Part of it was my church....an Eastern Rite church...in which Bortiniovsky, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff from that age onward! I never bought into the Rock n Roll culture, and sock hops in a little later life.....the comparison to junk food is a little fatuous....but you must admit...sheisenmusik es sheisnemusik.......

Case in point - My cat likes to sleep with me. But he also likes to play mummy and daddy with other cats... My father, a WW2 vet and federal politician, was a long time classical music 'aficionado", to the point where he was the Australian importer and distributor of brands like Monitor Audio, Stanton, Memorex, Cybernet etc. But one of his favorite times was listening to Simon and Garfunkel in Central Park NY in 1981. Blew him away. There is a lot of similarity between Simon and Garfunkel and many classical pieces... My small collection has classical works from Beethoven (Munch, Karajan), Tchaikovsky (Muti, Munch) with Pink Floyd, Hendrix, Beatles, Amy Whitehouse, Bo Diddley and so on. I like what I like without feeling I have to be constrained to any genre or period. My cat on the other hand will only stick around when I play classical music. I think that's why he sleeps with me...

Wow, way to go Dave! You Rock). This elitist drivel regards to music has always been out there. It even exists to create divisions within the classical genre itself. I cant even count the number of times someone has disparaged my preference for Rossini, or Respighi over Mahler. That only serious spiritual, philosophical whatever has real great merit. I loved classical music, was drawn in by the sounds, the fun and drama as a 13 year old. Who still loves rock, folk and much else. I agree with Duke Ellington, if it sounds good, IT IS good. Paul

Read recently that Mick Jagger apparently loves Messiaen. If he can like Messiaen, we can like the Rolling Stones (or whatever).

Reportedly, my parents kept me quiet when I was a baby by playing orchestral Tchaikovsky on a repeater record player... To this day, I can listen to a powerful Mahler-2 and then switch over to Black Sabbath (I wish the recordings were better...) -- or the blues (Stormy Monday?) -- or... anything where the watchword is, "play your heart out; your life depends on it". A simple tune played with passion, urgency, finality, soul, etc, moves me.

I was a into popular radio as a young kid, a bit of a metalhead as a teenager, and that changed when Metallica had their San Francisco Orchestra concert S&M in the late 1990s. I was already into some film scores, branched out: found Nino Rota, found his classical output and bought a bunch of generic classical music for most of the next 20 years, with only the occasional off the beaten path discovery. Post-2010, got into a lot of k-pop, j-pop and Japanese music just generally. In the last few years however I have found how much killer stuff there is in classical music from composers few have ever heard of, partly because I am a collector of CDs and they are often pretty cheap right now! It is blowing my mind. I can understand why when you have the likes of Schnittke, Casella, Kabalevsky, Tveitt, Scharwenka, John Field, Poulenc or Kapustin, for instance, classical music fans may be elitist. You could binge out on all the classical music and you would never run out of quality stuff to listen to! EDIT: I also quite like the music of Brett Dean. He deserves mention.

Oh, yeah, I was that once, which I think was just me overcompensating. I kinda liked classical as a kid, much I believe through liking orchestral film scores, but I couldn't admit to it even to myself, and certainly not publically or I'd have been absolutely bullied for it by my peers - well, worse than I already was. Certainly didn't need to give more ammo with something "weird" and end up looking like even more of a weirdo for liking something I shouldn't have. So once I got out of that social circle and got to higher education where that kind of childishness pretty much dropped off, I started to feel a lot more free in just liking what I like and not making excuses for it. Unfortunately, when I started to buy my own records and really got into classical, it kind of had the adverse effect where I really started to look down on "lesser" artforms as well (animation was another I only later got back to appreciating again). But at some point as I was getting older I figured that this was pretty dumb and that I did in fact like quite a lot of this other stuff too, so I dropped that snobbery and just inducted my other likes to carry the same value. Certainly there are still musical genres that I just don't get or care for, but I wouldn't try to discourage people from enjoying them, either. Thankfully, though, I don't think I've ever tried to push people into liking what I like or vice versa, so at least there's that.

Absolutely! I love Bruckner, The Beatles, Beethoven, John Denver, Schubert, Neil Diamond, Mozart, Radiohead, Medtner, Wilco, Brad Mehldau, Wolfgang Rihm, Glen Campbell, Rachmaninov, James Taylor... And I love Smorgasburg in New York! Do you have an overflow pantry?

A large bowl of pork rinds slathered in valentina hot sauce often accompanies my hour of active and focused listening (encouraged by Dave). I'm positive that that practice is far healthier for me personally than jogging in the street in dolphin shorts. It's translated into a richer enjoyment and appreciation of some popular music recordings too.

When I'm at the symphony, I like to eat Whoppers during the quietest passages. I've always wondered what classical conductors listen to in their private lives? Is classical so much their job that they only listen when required spending the rest of the time listening to hardcore 90's thrash or the latest albums on the Hip-Hop charts?

Try the mango chile lime Harvest Snaps, very tasty.

Coming from Gen X that grew up on Bugs Bunny, I think there was always this sense of classical music just being another communal experience of my generation - among the many pop music eras we lived through- disco, 80s pop, classic rock, rap, and grunge. I'm so grateful to have all of the wonderful communal memories and nostalgia that binds us all together in the love of all these various styles. I do feel a bit sad for the younger generation in that I'm not sure they'll ever experience that same enchantment and connection with this pop music era that we did? While Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and perhaps some country stars still have that sort of world-wide appeal- I think even they are getting older. We had so many pop legends: Michael, Prince, Madonna, Whitney, Elton, George Michael, Stevie, etc. Or maybe I'm just getting old and unaware of the younger generation's stars? lol.

Sometimes you just never know. For a few days our new tech. from Puerto Rico listened to a rapper named Bad Bunny and others on our van`s speakers while he was driving and I was showing him the ropes (wasn`t my cup of tea nor floated my boat, but he was the driver). A few days later as I entered the shop, he was working on some equipment while listening to a Mozart piano concerto from his Spotify account. One can be intrigued with numerous genres depending on one’s mood.

I have loved classical music since I was a teenager, but I also love Abba, Carpenters, Spice Girls, Beatles, Neil Sedaka, The Kinks, Carole King, Sinatra....

I thought I was the only person who remembered "Dusty's Trail;" it ran for one season (1973-74), and starred Bob Denver and Forrest Tucker. Speaking of marketing, you should start your own line of junk food to enjoy while listening to classical music.

Speaking of harmless enjoyment of the pleasures of life, any chance of making a video of the most famous classical gaffs left in classical recordings. (maybe it could be called " why did they leave that in" or " how did no one notice?") The funniest live performance gaff I've witnessed was a highly noted Liszt specialist (Who's recorded Liszt's complete piano works) who jumped into another concerto (I couldn't identify which ) in the last 30-40 seconds of the finale of the Liszt piano concerto #1. He and conductor eventually got in synch again for the last bar. It is amazing the sins that can be hidden by a really long trill.

David, I agree with you completely! Once high and low culture existed side by side to a greater degree. Now so-called serious music and popular music (ie contemporary folk music) have become separated. One musician who went against this was Leonard Bernstein who often had an open-minded but quality-oriented attitude. Imagine if the different genres could inspire each other instead! The Beatles were well on their way…

I have almost no taste for most popular styles. I got my younger brother a Best of Bob Dylan album for his birthday one year and he ended up a huge fan, but for me even the good stuff I can take it or leave it. There are a few select things I enjoy outside of Classical, but I've long since stopped pretending that me and Jazz are ever gonna be real, or that I'm going out of my way for a classic rock album someone recommends. I simply cannot sustain interest in it. I like Classical Music and I've made my peace with that--and I have had to, because it freezes me out of a lot of conversations. I avoid music discussions now like the plague. Someone inevitably brings up Queen. People think I haven't heard Queen even though you can't step into any place of retail without hearing it. I'll save a little bit of Michael Jackson (older), most of Johnny Cash, some of The Beatles, a great big chunk of folk music (Vasen, for starters), a few other odds and ends, but generally speaking I'm preferring Baroque organ and trumpet and Romantic symphonic music. There just isn't anything better to my ears.

You're wrong about the Boulez box, though. I enjoy it with a box of Nilla Wafers. ;-)

It would be interesting to know if great Maestros listen to rock / metal/ etc, and if so, what. Previn, for one, has recorded jazz, as has Gulda. A sad story: decades ago I met a (classically trained) counter-tenor named Klaus Nomi at a social gathering. Discussing music, he told me that he had opted out of the classical world and into the pop/ rock repertoire, singing the same or similar music, adapted to the rock gendre. He very kindly offered to send me an LP of his work. Months later I received a package containing an LP ("Simple Man") and a sad obituary note from the sender apprising me of of Mr Nomi's recent death. Of course I still have that LP!

Tim's Potato Chips, Dave (you slayed me at Doritos & Mahler) ... Dave for President 2024 ...

Great rant. And maybe the bigger point is we should stop dividing everything up in to categories and silos. As Leonard Bernstein said, "There are only two types of music- good music and everything else". I have always loved and worshipped Bach, Mozart, Miles Davis, Stravinsky, Bartok, The Beatles, Sinatra, Aaron Copland, Joni Mitchell, Debussy, Ravel, Bill Evans, Stevie Wonder, Duke Ellington, Prince and the Beach Boys. (Dave- sit down and give us a serious critical analysis of 'God Only Knows'. Treat it as a 'classical' piece of music. I would be fascinated to hear what you have to say.) I also occasionally enjoy The Police, Isaac Albeniz, Vaughan Williams, Olivier Messiaen (some, anyway), Joao Gilberto, Beck, Wayne Shorter, Marvin Gaye and Fleetwood Mac. It sounds like I'm dividing things into A and B categories, and maybe so, but that's not really how I listen. It's ALL music, folks. Just keep an open mind and listen!

Well now I'm hungry.

That is so true 😂 I began with beethoven but I totally enjoy modern stuff. Also know classical music composer nowadays who enjoys dancing to cardi B. No issue! But let's be honest that's a 2-way street. When I mention classical music as a genre, people look at me funny too - like what's wrong with you 😂

As I always say I'm a fan of Kiss and Xenakis

I like to say I'm musically promiscuous-- it's cheaper than the other kind. :) . I love classical music and jazz, but also a good deal of pop, folk, blues,country & r&b. Just depends on mood, time, etc. And I agree there's so much out there that's more accessible than ever. But Auntie Mame's comment: 'Life is a banquet and most people are starving to death'f still applies. And maybe more now than ever unfortunately.

to be honest the more I think about it the more I realize that comparing popular music to "junk food" is incredibly harmful not to knock the analogy you're using here, of course, it's a great analogy and extremely well-done, but in a broader sense, comparing something to junk food implies that it's bad for you, that it's not a good idea to consume it in massive quantities, and that it cannot be a substitute for a proper meal. these are all things that I absolutely don't think can be unilaterally applied to pop music. sure, there's a heaping helping of flavorless empty calories flowing from the radio all the time (and there always has been), but just because it can appeal to people OTHER than the turbo-nerds doesn't mean it can't be incredibly fulfilling. calling it "junk food" almost implies that it _cannot_ do that, or that it _shouldn't_ do that, and in my experience that couldn't be more false immediate gratification is a valid way to enjoy music! something being immediately appealing is often the gold standard of music. what really matters (at least to me) is if that immediacy can be transferred into more enjoyment with a deeper look and don't get me wrong, I'm down for music that makes you put in some work, but discounting music that ISN'T requiring you to become a mental Olympic gymnast ignores the fact that it can still be incredibly artistically satisfying

Yeah I don’t do classical music, I hope, out of any kind of snobbery- there’s a personal history to my involvement in it that’d take too long to relate. I just know that a lot of recent popular stuff isn’t aimed at me and that’s ok. It’s for younger people mostly. But of course I enjoy the pop music that was and is aimed at me and I hear it all the time mostly in social settings when I’m out and about. I have no idea what Taylor Swift actually sounds like but that’s not out of snobbery it’s just it’s not aimed at me! And I don’t think that matters. But, plainly I’m not disagreeing with you Dave

Doritos and Mahler! Life's good!

“Why don’t younger people like classical music? It should be more present in their lives so they can learn to like it!” “Enjoying classical music requires high intellect, and rigorous work in understanding the nuances of a 60 minute Bruckner symphony. You wouldn’t understand because any culture outside of it is garbage and stupid”. Yeah, what could possibly be the problem? 🤔

The word "rigor" always reminds me of "mortis".

Doritos and Mahler; how can you argue with that! Trying it tonight.

The idea that there's some firm dividing line between "pop culture" (trashy, simple) and "classical music" (high-minded, complex) is just dumb! Quality varies widely within all genres. We forget all the shitty, trashy "classical" music of the 1800s, etc. but oh... it exists! And then there are the truly transcendent examples of "pop" music. For example, honestly, I think something like the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds is a continuation of the lieder and song cycle tradition from Schubert. As Duke Ellington -- a man whose output absolutely transcended supposed "pop" and "art" divides himself -- said, "when it sounds good, it is good."

I think classical music is super-fun too. So sue me, if that makes it less serious. I get easy gratification from Mendelssohn....

I didn't realise you engaged in so much low culture! You learn something new every day. You are still very high culture, by the way!

Cheese Balls made with real "BALLS" !!!! Love classical music just as much as I love the music of "FRANK ZAPPA". I was against pop culture even as a child. I was dead set against the HULA HOOP. It is the main reason my back is out of whack, not to mention my brain (what little I have left) THANKS DAVE....If this doesn't make sense, it was intended....