Music Streaming Services Compared 

I’d say most audiophiles far outspend the average consumer on music, on a relative basis. We were happily paying 2x for lossless streaming (before they reduced prices), a bunch of us still buy a lot of CDs and Vinyl, and also actively go to live shows, yet there is barely an acknowledgment from the music industry and thus they rarely cater to us. Yes, we are a tiny fraction of the overall music consuming audience, but as a society, we should probably focus on helping our normie friends appreciate high quality music, leading to them eventually buying more music. It’s the same with the movie market, the “cine-philes “ are the ones actually paying full prices for Blu-Ray copies rather than settling for compressed BS from the major streaming services.

No matter how much technological moves they make, none of them except Spotify have multi-device support. At the end of the day, if I'm going to steam over BT or wifi, hifi/hi-res/atmos stuff becomes garbage. I already collect physical media, I don't have a subscription other than spotify because of multi-device support. For example: Apple Music and Amazon Music HD don't even have apps for Google TV... By the way ; i am your big fan. You added a lot to my life. Thanks to you, I learned how ignorant I actually am about the subjects that I thought I knew a lot. Love from Istanbul / Turkey.

I understand Emiko's comments from a artist's perspective but as a consumer I want as much value as I can get.

Great video. Love your long form discussion coverage. Hope you expand this topic concept for video given all the talking points in this one about streaming vs. other video source options.

Thanks for the great topic. I was subscribed to Spotify and I'm still subscribed to Apple music and Tidal. Apple music is for my family and Tidal is for me. Regarding sound quality, Tidal is the best of the three in my opinion. I compared Tidal and Apple music many times, back and forth. And I mean not mqa or high res or Atmos, but just cd quality. Apple music sounds to me like it is compressed, at least regarding the dynamic range and space. I think because of that it feels louder. Tidal sounds much more spacious with muth better dynamic range. It feels like Apple took their old compressed library and just changed the description... Regarding artists support. Lately Tidal is trying to look like they care a lot about artists. They send me reports weekly and monthly about how much of my money will go to the artist I listened to the most. A very nice move indeed. So yes, Apple music is cheaper and more accessible, but I doubt about the sound quality...

That was a good session, I learned a few things that I didn’t realize; one, I didn’t know that artist made so lit’l from their work. Nevertheless, too many people don’t understand what takes or what some artist visual or musical put in their work. To the point of corporations making the BIG bucks while artist make little, it’s what & where they want tor take us gig economy rental society, the problem we’re falling for it. On credits, art & other information given about artist, the music, the album etc. is not a lost art itself, it’s of history of how it all came for the music. Reading liner notes introduced me to more & lead to more discover about the artist their music & whom else that was just as interesting.

Yes! I miss physically holding vinyl. Glad to see vinyl stores like Bandcamp. I support their brick and mortar stores!

Thank you very much for this excellent video conference and discussion. I’m watching it after broadcast, but archiving it is valuable to everybody who wasn’t able to make it live. Thanks especially to the artist who talked about streaming services ripping off artists. I used Tidal but will be doing more research on where else I want to put my money.

What about Deezer?

I switched from Tidal to Apple Music because it’s a better value,but the problem is that Roon or Linn don’t support it. AirPlay simply won’t do the job,it doesn’t support HiRes. So I basically use Apple Music with a Dragonfly dongle connected to my iPhone and Sennheiser HD 560 headphones. With the Linn i listen to downloads stored in a hard drive using Roon.

So refreshing to hear Emiko on this episode. We should have her more often on the channel. 😁

Qobuz has more depth and sounds analogue!

I am going to disagree with the person that commented "why should I buy a whole album when there is only one good song, or song I want" or whatever he said. It has been my experience over 40 years of listening to and buying music that almost always when I buy an album I find other tracks I like. Sometimes more so than the song I bought the album for. Just for whatever reason it didn't get the exposure the mainstream song got. I am not going to say that has happened every time but I would say the majority of the time I find other songs I like as much or more.

SoundCloud is another streaming service that’s still relevant, but not so much for hifi.

On the 20$ a month Tidal package, the artist you listened to each month received $2.00. Ian said he doesn’t know anyone else that does that, Tidal does.

I can tell you, with most people I’ve talked to under ~35, a lot of them use Spotify premium. They like it because it does well learning what music they listen to, and suggests. They can find new music that way. I use Apple Music unfortunately, but they have all of the Hardstyle/hardcore and death metal bands I like. Also I can use spatial audio now.

Liner Notes! CD Booklet! Sorry if I missed any comment about the fact that Qobuz offers a huge benefit that no other service even attempts! So this is one of the many conversations I've listened to/read and I wonder, do any of these people care anything about classical music? Other than does 24 bit have any audible advantage over 16 bit? and other audio quality nonsense. If one of the pleasures of vinyl is having the record sleeve to view and read, then why doesn't anyone point out that for classical music lovers, Qobuz is the only platform that contains copies of the CD Booklet with all the musical info that adds to the experience. Disappointed in you so-called 'music-lovers' for not even mentioning this PLUS!

what is better in sound quality, hires qobuz or mqa tidal?

Speaking of Emiko, I’m looking up her music. I was so impressed with both her knowledge, articulation and passion I really want to hear her music.

This was a very good show. Super interesting. Leaned a great deal. BTW Fleetwood Mac rumors is in atoms on Apple Music. Excited to hear it in that format soon.

Love the conversion, appreciate the entire conversation and as a Baby Boomer I'm all in on the need to care about the artist. I f they don't make a living they go away and we get crap to nothing on the airwaves however they are populated. In respect for the discussion of making Good Music with great sound continues into the next generation I respectfully submit the following thought. IMO the " insider " basis of this conversation can possibly help make all this good will go in exactly the wrong direction. Life has become complicated and expensive for high school and college kids today . The industry stands, business model for artist etc are not one wit these kids care about or know much about or want to. So whatever the structure of the future is is needs to be an affordable no brainer with multi device access. Putting great sounding music on any device will get the numbers of those who want more of that will go up and thereby broaden the business model and success opportunities. ( I think apple is best positioned to do that IMO for better or worse) I f we get the big guys to care about quality and stop having a new format every other week..... we may have a chance . Coming from and audiophile that went from quadraphonic thru MQA . When we all continue to argue on , cables matter no they don't, MQA is real MQA is a scam , DSD, Surround etc. Products you can't understand kids won't spend money on. If the don't spend money that have you get MP3's on a pocket calculator...........Not sure I have an answer but believe I can see when we are going down the road to the back of the rack...........I love good quality music reproduced well and have spent 1o of thousands on trying to get (fortunately over my lifetime) but I am concerned focusing on all this stuff front and center we will not get there Apologies but that's just one guys 6 decades observation

Ian White I also use spotify for discovery on what Cd/Sacd to buy , But i tried the free trial of Tidal and honestly I like Spotify better Hopefully I can try a hires company soon

I’ve found the music videos on Tidal to be nice bonus content- for SOME of the artists at least. Wish they had more concert footage available. MTV on steroids!

I wish Qobuz was here in Canada. I am currently using tidal and really enjoy it though.

So the summary of the whole episode is that "buy blu ray, rip it on local drive and play it thru some media player to get the best sound/video quality". Got it. Thx. But what about majority of the contents that are available on Netflix or Apple TV? What do we do in that case?

Hi-Fi streaming won’t make any difference to the vast majority of people who listen over Bluetooth which doesn’t support it - Spotify won’t release it.

If I would have noticed any difference in sound quality between Spotify Premium and Tidal, I would have given my free Tidal trial a longer go, but on my system ( Kanta no3's and M33 ) I couldn't hear any difference. So the annoyance with Tidal kicked in at about one week and I just quit using it. Not finding the music I like from some central European Artists, almost no Dubstep and D&B , no Spotify Connect experience, tracks not loading etc... (even at my dealer, not using the M33, Tidal is known to not load tracks sometimes, you switch service or restart the app, problem gone) Spotify/connect is the most user friendly experience for me. ( not perfect, but close ) From what I hear from Apple users, Apple Music has that similar level of user experience. I have tried Deezer before too, experience wise, playlists and music suggestion wise, a possible contender for Spotify ( Deezer had more French content ). The more "HIFI" you go, the more exclusive you go and the smaller the library get's IMHO. Spotify and Apple music have by far the most songs.

It is frustrating the Amazon Music application on Nvidia Shield and Android TV will not play lossless.

BEQ isn't to add more bass. That's a misunderstanding. BEQ is to fill the bass where its missing. Even in Blu Ray, most of the movies won't have bass below 30Hz and specially below 20Hz. Many on AVS have systems capable of playing 10Hz but even the movies (for example "A quiet place") that should have that low low bass are missing it. BEQ is there to fill that gap. Again please note that its not to boost extra bass but to fill what's missing. Also those who have platforms that allow you to shake the seats (Transducers/BOSS....) will utilize that BEQ feature tremendously. Watch movies like Tron or A quiet place with BEQ and you'd be amazed with what you were missing specially when you have a system that can utilize below 20Hz bass contents.

Wish you brought up Roon. Maybe in another talk. Good stuff!

Great video guys, very informative. Like Ian, I really miss record stores!!!!! I always listen/watch physical media in my home audio system and home theater. I agree with Emiko about the physical media experience. Her commentary throughout the video is incredible! To me, physical media at least sounds/looks as good and typically much better than streaming files and gives you that ownership satisfaction and hands on aspect of a listening session. Anthony Grimaldi in your streaming compression video validates this and suggests using physical disk over streaming (with the exception to the 5 digit Kaleidescape) for highest fidelity. It carries over to music for me too. Streaming is great for portable application like car and mobile devices, and relative low for whole house audio. Next choice is high rez downloads for me and streaming is for iem use while working in yard or something. I do rip my redbooks to a hard drive, but don't use it for critical listening, just for portable applications. Spatial audio and proliferation of high res streaming may change my habits, but not any time soon.

Love you guys so much. 👍❤️ Love you Emiko. Just started listening to your music on Apple music with my Naim Atom headphone amp, with my focal Radiance headphones. Love your music. ❤️ Very soulful. Keep the great work. I am a fan now. 😊

Thanks for this video. Good insight. Regarding Ian White, I am also a 52 yr old Canadian and did the same thing as he did - subway to Yonge Street, Sam the Record Man, etc. Only I went Play da Record (now on Spadina) and Slinky Music. Buying physical music. But with streaming, although the audio isn't (necessarily always) as good even at lossless (Amazon Music HD) (can't say Tidal is much better), the user interface and discovery for my $9.99/month offers a lot more. Sure I'm renting the music, but I'm not investing the time and money to travel downtown anymore, and that works more for me now (especially during the pandemic, which really ignited the streaming thing). I used to easily spend $500/month back then. I don't listen to physical music near as much anymore but I feel the net result is a gain. And if I want to learn more about the artists then there's discogs, IMDb, etc.

Great job guys. Informative with great stories and humor. What is the best way to connect your Apple TV to listen Atmos? I have a Anthem AVM60 following your reviews. When I play Atmos through my home theater it does not sound right compared to my Atmos demo CD on my Oppo Player.

Didn't watch this until several weeks afterwards. FWIW - I prefer physical media for two reasons - 1) It sounds better than streaming (note: I haven't tried the hi-end services) 2) Streaming is basically the same thing as renting - At the end of the month you have nothing to show for it. Went to try the free version of Tidal and it appears that's no longer an option. They have a free trial period, but that's it.

Amazon HD represent 🤙 Bezos getting my cash monthly for sure

Wow! Great great show learned so much!

I was confused about Emkio’s point about Apple Music rate of pay, isn’t that the same for all streaming services (Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon, etc)

Very upset with Apple. I’ve loaded my a lot of my 💿 cds into Apple Music library. Then I canceled my subscription. All of my purchased and personally loaded music disappeared! I had to resubscribe in order to get my own music back.

RU-vid works great with adblock apps. I still use youtube for manual surfing discovery, scamazon works good these days for AI discovery, and from there, I choose to purchase the CDs to actually own the music. I know there is going to be a time when (tidal is already there, IMO) these pay companies will raise their rates to a point that I don't see the value anymore. I could live with Pandora and youtube. In other words, I don't need even more middlemen to support artists.

I appreciate hi-res music and would rather listen to it only. But the reason I don’t pay for a subscription is that I listen to music at the gym with Bose noise canceling headphones and it would also require me to buy a in-line DAC for the best potential. And I other time I listen is in my work van that basic speakers, so I’m not experiencing the music’s full potential. So I continue to use my free pandora because I have a large variety already created

I realize this is a year old video .. My take is RU-vid Music that's bundled with RU-vid Premium is by far the way to go. Bottom line is I'm watching 10X+ of video to every hour I listen to music. I just ran through A/B testing on three services including Amazon HD and Apple Music, plus comparing to RU-vid Music (high) .. using my HIFIMAN XS Edition headphones with a good Schitt DAC and separate Amp the differences are so negligible that volume alone can change your opinion one way or the other. I still even at my age can't stand walking in anywhere that uses Sonic alarms so my hearing is still fine and dandy.

Great discussion guys.nice to listen to people that know what they’re talking about.I’ve tried them all and I’m sticking with Apple Music.

Great video. I'm an aging boomer who has used print publications (Stereophile, Penguin Guides etc), record store browsing, then audiophile forums and NPR streaming as sources of inspiration. In 50 years I've covered every genre. I havn't bought any music in a couple of years. I'm excited by these new lossless streams and only need two channel audio. I'm put off by the thought of plowing thru endless menus to find music, we already do that with movie selection. Do any of the streaming services allow a very detailed profile (questionnaire) in order to make new music suggestions?

FYI if you in China , Apple Music is king cuz 1 yr subscription is a mere US13.9 per year , it’s not a typo , that’s for 1 yr. No other service comes close.

Emiko mentioned that Pharrel made only 45k for the streaming of Happy and said that was just a little more than a teacher made. Which got me thinking, exactly how much should an entertainer make? I understand supply and demand, but it has only been in very recent human history that entertainers made any real money. (Emiko later corrected it to $2500 but my question still remains the same). Why should an entertainer make more than a teacher?

I have a friend that produces music and yet refuses to pay anything for the music he listens to. I just don't understand that. He does support artists by going to their shows however.

Great topic guys! Thanks.

Great content! Thank you all so much. I am curious as to why the amazon offering was listed and never mentioned as to good or bad . I am sure there is a reason but after watching this I am very open to switching from spotify but can't justify the cost of cobuz for my streaming use and budget. Any help with the amazon option would be great. Thank you again for all the great help.

I'm a big fan of Qobuz (prefer them even over Tidal) but some of my favorite regional bands are missing from their library. I'm not a fan of Apple's ecosystem (despite owning a Mac Mini) so despite Amazon HD's GUI being a little basic I'm really impressed with the quality and quantity of music on Amazon's service (often available in FLAC format). Spotify being low-res along with RU-vid Music...it's difficult for me to get too excited about their offerings.

You can buy content from Apple, but they make it extremely difficult. That may not be true anymore, but I bought something a few months ago.

Nobody I know really cares about the artist pay I don't know why it keeps coming up in this video they care about content and sound

Nugs is pretty cool, live concert video streaming

Apple home audio sounds great, hopefully they bring out a device with analog outputs.

Movie producers complain Netflix is not paying per view and musicians about not getting bigger lump sum. Musicians need to push CD. Put there couple tracks not found on streaming platforms.

Qobuz to my ears is the best in sound,Tidal is next best,and Apple unfortunately doesn’t give a fig about sound ,it’s just compressed garbage.

I left Apple Music for Spotify because it was so easy to find new music that I immediately love. Apple lossless doesn’t really matter, I’m waiting on Spotify lossless

Using URC Total Contol great integration!

GREAT chat!! You mentioned an artist named Dominique {Something} I tried to find her but kept coming up with a guy. What exactly is her name?

Thanks!

This was the first audioholics stream I was disappointed by.

Between UI sound and price I like Apple Music the best specially with the upgrade software and that you will have all the time. Spotify has a great UI but not sound. Tidal have great sound but not UI. There’s too much searching, and it’s not easy to find music there. Amazon music the same thing. That’s why Apple Music for me does the job!

I have had Spotify for about five years now, In November last year bought a Blusound Node. I have never listened to lossless but after a few months of Radio Paradise in MQA, I can no longer listen to Spotify. You can call it snake oil all you want to me it's 500% better than Spotify. Now that I know I can easily move the playlist I'm shopping for a new service.

It would be great to do a streaming hardware follow-up. Many of us already have receivers and want to add a dedicated streamer to our home theater systems. However, I can not find a dedicated streaming device with hdmi out to support spatial audio. If you want to use tidal connect, you can not use a computer connected to the receiver and control the music with your phone. I'm going to experiment with a Raspberry Pi, but I'm not sure how it will go as no one talks about the hdmi audio performance. Optical only supports 5.1 as I understand. This would be a fantastic area to do a video on to help us identify how to achieve spatial and hires audio on our existing systems. Thanks!

I like spotify just wish it had lossless

For now, dedicated to Apple for my money. Lossless sounds great. Recommendations mostly match my likes with new discoveries. UI is so friendly. It comes with my cell phone plan anyway. Sounds fantastic on my home sound system and car. Tried Amazon, loved the sound quality, recommendations were spotty, hated the interface. RU-vid premium sound quality, interface, etc., is awful, now. Google Music WAS the GOAT. Occasionally use free version. Spotify sound quality is crap, UI is nice, but recommendations are terrible for me. Tried Tidal and the rest. They are just being elitist to me, and not worth the additional price point. If you don't have the hardware, lossless/HR is not needed. Using headphones? Go for cheap svc.

Very interesting channel.

"Oxygen" by Powderr Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, TIDAL AND MORE | August 31

Yes I feel spending 10 bucks a month but pay a lot more for vinyl. Like 200.00 for an album!

Pretty fitting name for the "The Remote Zombie!"

Tidal gives a discount to military members and veterans. It’s 11.99 a month. So I’m supporting any company that supports our troops. With that said I just got six months free on Apple Music and though I don’t like their interface it’s nice that they tell you if the Album is Losseless or ATMOS. There interface is very Apple which I like I just think Tidal’s interface is better. I think Tidal needs to advertise more and didn’t Jay-Z sell is portion of Tidal to Jack Dorsey the former CEO of Twitter?

Well, in less that 2 minutes of the video you managed to set off a chain of events that led to me buying 2 CDs by Nothing But Thieves, who I'd not previously heard of. Your list of price tiers made me realise that I had access to a music streaming service I didn't know I had access to. Always expensive using free streaming services, as they lead to music discovery and physical media purchases. Perhaps it's time to watch the rest of the video now.

I was in a group in the 70's and we made no money after we recorded a song. I know a person that was discovered by Earth Wind And Fire and made 2 albums. He said most the money he made was from concerts so he became a shoe salesman

To be clear a world renowned musician with over a billion streams should be paid more than a nerdy IT guy who spends all of his disposable income on audio gear or car stuff. Although it did make me happy for a moment. See what I did there? 😂 (I’m the nerdy IT guy by the way)

Spotify still is best for discovery. I won't let go just yet of Spotify because of this. It was a letdown that Spotify invested huge amounts of money in podcasts (some of which controversial and leading to lawsuits) relegating lossless to an undefined point in the future. They are introducing AI for phantom DJ's. It's a "sorta 'back to AM radio' " move. I don't mind, it can be turned off, but a boatload of money has ben channeled there. And it's a pity because their music catalog is the broadest on the market and you can find practically everything there. It's a treasure trove. Or at least you could before some relevant musicians pulled their music because of disagreement on some podcast content. It was entirely avoidable and unnecessary. Let's hope the waters calm down and things go back to normal. Music is music and we can all agree on that.

As far as I can see it, the artist gets payed to advertise there content for free. By uploading their content to the streamers the masses. If it becomes popular the opportunities comes to the artists to make money. Just like when a radio station played their stuff down free. They should basically start a only fans page for a few dollars a month. And serve the clientele base and make money without leaving home.

Still trying to figure out which one has the best bang for the buck

There is no Mastered for Apple anymore

As an artist never post your content to stream platforms! Physical media cd only! Bandcamp even!

People now find the "credits" in Wikipedia and other sources.

Spotify has a nice depth sound in the mid/tweeter/bass when streaming. Personally, I don't think Spotify needs any sound corrections Except for a simple downloaded EQ app. Pandora sound quality sucks and is to high in frequency, but Pandora has one of the best music wide range of artistes selection plus bonus tracks to select from in streaming. I like that out of Pandora than the way it sounds. An EQ app is definitely needed with Pandora. RU-vid is on the money! Especially with RU-vid gear app that has an 7 band EQ and 3D surround sound optional selector built in it. RU-vid gear App is very balance and possibly can squeeze 89db to 20hz out of the whole streamer spot on. Google Play streamer...is one of the best streamers I've ever heard, all hands down! Google Play sounds just like Apple Atmos but without the Atmos. Google Play selection of artists sucks, but has an incredible sound. A EQ app isn't needed with Google Play, but if wanted...the sound is out of this world CD Quality spot on.

I really like to buy the physical disc or album. I love the art work etc. But can rarely afford it…. I hate mp3s. I want high rez, want the good stuff!

The streaming market is finally coming into its own and I can't imagine Spotify surviving.

Only here to see if Ian falls asleep

Apple ftw!!!!!

If one of these services starts offering Atmos music streaming on Windows they will get my business.

Spotify has become the 8-track of music streaming.

Apple music is going to surpass hard copy mtv radio anything dealing with music.

2.24B iPhones up to 2022 actually.. haha 44:30

Ian is twitching is he having a stroke

I love Tidal and the user interface plus a great catalogue. Your price is wrong if you negotiate you can get five bucks off a month plus a couple of months free. Apple is like the Saturday morning cartoons and not user friendly. Sometimes remastered albums are better in cd quality than MQA but not always. For two channel Tidal is the best. Do not have Qbuz in Canada.

Streaming services made a lot of pirates paying customers because of how easy it is to use.

I'll stay with Spotify as long as they support free speech. If they drop Joe Rogan, I'm gone.

Brian Mitchell please stop nodding your head.

People need to avoid Apple at all costs. Not a fan.

Interesting topic. Wish the girl was not here so it would be watchable tho. And all her wild claims without any evidence.

As long as you don’t choose MQA you will be ok.

Loved this session. Great panel. I learned at lot and thoroughly enjoyed it. Love Gene's approach to audio. Emikio was great as well. Thanks!

Was Emiko trying to point out that teachers aren't paid enough?

You all need to ask Emiko to tune your mics and cameras (or direct you to the right gear). She was clear and intelligible, unlike the rest of you. I had to turn down gain a few notches when she was talking, the opposite of what I usually do with Gene's streams.