My biggest fear for Star Wars... and it seems likely to happen 

Disney and Lucasfilm is an absolute wrecking ball of bad ideas, it's not even surprising at this point.

It’s very telling when the people working on Acolyte use the same arguments for morality that Palpatine uses in the prequels

Star wars and Lord of the rings are one of the stories where it's extremely clear that there's good and evil.

I feel like Rogue One and Andor got the balance right: the Empire is evil, no question. But the people fighting that evil often find the fight corrupting them too; the terrible things that sometimes must be done to fight on that level. Basically, Luthen's monologue, or Cassian saying "we've all done terrible things for the rebellion".

Moral relativism is inherently incompatible with the kind of story Star Wars told. It's also incompatible with reality, but who's counting?

The Empire literally blew up a planet just cause. It's hard to call that "not evil."

Palpatine is one of my favorite villains because, like you said, he’s just pure evil. I loved when I read the Plagueis novel that they didn’t change that. Sure, he was a kid once with some sort of moral compass, but that darkness was always there. He accidentally killed someone as a child and felt no remorse, he willingly killed his entire family. Palpatine could be seen as having a sort of backstory of “why”, but in truth that part of him was always there, just as it was with Anakin.

Star Wars and post modernism go together about as well as screen doors on submarines.

The KOTOR games handled this quite well whenever it delved into the nature of the light and dark side. The way it is depicted in most other stories, the dark side seems like a switch you flip when you decide you want to be powerful. But the games paint the picture of a this perversion of human nature that sneaks up on you and gradually twists you into something far worse than you might have intended to become. It is a pit that you fall deeper into, and the climb out becomes harder and harder.

I've got a baaaad feeling about The Acolyte. Leslye Headland's atonement project for being Harvey's PA for 6 years including the period spent silencing actors and others was always going to get a bit mushy with whole moral clarity, choices, and doing wrong thing.

I think the good vs evil story is today underappreciated. To say that there is no good and evil is a dangerous idea, because it benefits the evil more. The empire in episode 4 was shown to be evil, because it destroyed Alderaan. I don't know what Disneys idea is, but was DJ from the last jedi right? For those who have forgotten, he was the guy that Finn and Rose interacted with on the casino planet. Should we all become more like DJ?

What kind of world are we living in if a show like the Acolyte actually tries to tear down good in order to prop up evil?

To put Star Wars in context, in 1977 I was 17 years old. We were living during the Cold War, where the Soviet Union could be viewed as the Evil Empire, while the fight against the Nazis during World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War didn't seem like ancient history, but were still relevant in our minds. The thought of nuclear annihilation also felt like a very real possibility. We were going through the worst economic decade of my lifetime. Some people might look at the events that followed 2008 as being the worst, but the American economy was much more robust in 2008 and able to eventually rebound. However, the 1970s was just one piece of bad news after another. The country felt like it was in a giant malaise. Then came Star Wars in 1977, which to my 17-year-old mind felt like a godsend. It was a metaphor for a hopeful battle against all the evils that plagued us. Star Wars became an important part of my life, and it influenced my career toward computers and video game development. To this day, Star Wars feels like a part of my personality. At my more advanced age of 63, I notice how violent Star Wars is. This didn't seem like much of an issue in 1977 when the characters were fighting Space Nazis, because the 1970s felt like an existential struggle against the forces of evil. For example, Star Wars calls light sabers an elegant weapon, but how elegant is cutting people in half or cutting their heads off? It would be like calling a battle axe an elegant weapon. All this makes me wonder how relevant Star Wars is to our current time? The 20th century was by far the most violent in history, which made mechanized murder on a mass scale feel more normal. I think that there was less regard for the individual, which is something we take to extreme levels today. I feel far less threatened by outside forces today than I did after 9-11, or in the 60s, the 70s, and the 80s. We can still fantasize about a struggle for survival between good and evil, but good and evil in the modern world are less distinct from one another. This makes me think that Star Wars has to change to remain relevant. The original movie gave us 1970s characters in a futuristic setting. The recent series Andor did a great job of giving us modern characters in the same setting and feels more relevant to the time we live in. Best wishes, John Coffey

One of the old trailers for Star Wars: A New Hope way back in 1977 said it was a story of Heroes and Villains. I think that pretty much defines that there is good and evil in the movie and the current Disney overlords don't understand the property they own.

the most evil thing to do is to tell all the people that we must accept any of the evil guy because he had the "reasons" to do so...

The actor saying that there is no good or evil in Star Wars took what Palpatine said to heart, "Good is a point of view," but then also completely forgot that it was the villain of the whole franchise saying that. XD

I went to the Star Wars exhibit at the National Air and Space Museum back in the late '90's. A point the exhibit was trying to communicate was the "magic of myth" and that the mythologies of the past resonate so well is because of their timeless values of hero's journey, divine sparks, mystery, lore, and monsters. There was a lot there and I went to that exhibit over 25 years ago so I can't give a complete synopsis of it, but the idea resonated with the 20-year-old me. That all this saga, all the lore, all the battles of good and evil are stories which men and women find deeply resonating, and that Lucas's vision was to feed off of those same timeless truths. in '77, not only did the mythology resonate, but it was given the wow factor with special effects, a sound track, and quippy dialogue (oh, and in merchandizing). That lightning in a bottle can never be captured they way it was in the Original Trilogy. That being said, I am all for building similar lore. Whether it is "canon" or Fan Fiction, I don't much care. Reading of Mara Jade or playing a FPS as Kyle Katarn was lore and world building. Disney SW has largely been content. There have been moments of wonderful exceptions, but Episodes VII-IX were a deconstruction effort. And that deconstruction has harmed much of the D+ efforts.

The more we hear about the acolyte the worse it sounds. As I said before I once saw a video called Toy story four failed its characters and that’s another movie I really personally hate, but that’s a whole other story, but in the video of the guy said “the writers, just wanted their story in this universe but they never stop to think on their story would affect the larger one as a whole. Kind of like what rian johnson did with Luke skywalker in the last Jedi” at this point Kennedy is just letting people run rampant. Faverau and filoni and even the Jedi games while far from perfect are the only parts of Star Wars these days that seem semi organized…

the porblem isnt starwars reflecting on the current times and having an overt message, the problem is doing that in such a way that doesnt make sense or mesh well with the tone and lore of the world. Andor shows us this can be done VERY well and that starwars doesnt always have to be all happy go lucky, but rather it needs to be a solid story for its real world message to work.

Yes. The problem with Star Wars is that the people making it don’t understand it. Or at least that’s part of the problem anyway. KK has shown, time and again, she never understood it. I have grace doubts as to whether or not Headland understands it. Yet, we’ve seen Filoni does, and his projects have been far from perfect. Then you have Gilroy, who seemed to state that he wasn’t a fan (therefore unlikely to understand it) yet he, in my opinion, makes some of the best SW we’ve ever seen. I’d say it’s definitely a problem, but even more so, bad writing is a bigger problem. The worst though, is bad writing AND not understanding the source material. Unfortunately, that’s my expectation for Acolyte.

When I first saw Star Wars in the 80's the main theme that stuck out to me was the internal struggle between good and evil, and that good was the right choice!

I think it's good to have a variety of villains in our stories. It's one reason why Avatar TLA is so great. It showcases multiple villain types and importantly kept a big bad in Ozai. Sometimes we just need villains that are blatantly evil. They challenge the hero in a different way, just like the more complex villains like Azula challenge the hero.

"This isn't about good or bad. It's about power and who's allowed to use it." Wasn't this more or less a line from Harry Potter? Specifically from Voldemort when he was trying to get Harry to turn to the dark arts side? Says a lot about the writers in charge. Both in terms of their morals, and their creativity and originality.

Hey Thor, I'd like to try and offer a more hopeful question to raise some spirits. What is your favorite Star Wars novel(s) and why? What drew you in? Was it the author's particular voice? A character? The problem/challenge faced? Is it a comfort read that you fall back to often or is it something that you'd like to pick up again after so long to fall in love all over again?

"There is no good amd evil in star wars it depends on what side you're on" That dude needs to be far FAR AWAY from Star Wars you can tell he's not a fan by that line alone

“Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.”

I've always thought of the force as kind of a multiplier of one's actions, where the average civilians of the galaxy might believe in moral relativism and have a "good people on both sides" view because they're - as said - average. But once you're a force user, your actions (due to the will of force/influence of fate/superpowers etc) have much greater impacts, and so a bad action done with good intent shines a lot more negatively. You generally end up as either very good or very bad because whatever you do will draw you more to that side. It's my headcannon for why all the Sith are evil but the Trade Federation and Republic civilians tend to have a range from good to bad.

Tarkin wasn't truly, he just had a sad backstory that led him to blowing up Alderaan 😞

Andor nailed Star Wars without a lightsaber or beskar. I wanted to sign up for the rebellion at the end of Andor season 1. It showed WHY the Empire needed to be stopped. From Bix's torture to the prison guard welcoming new inmates.

It's funny how when it comes to Emperor Palpatine as you say we do not feel sympathy for him. Yet this is not the case with his 3 apprentices. Darth Vader of course we begin to find to be a more sympathetic character from the End of the Empire Strikes back and throughout ROTJ. This is further expanded upon in the prequel movies as we are horrified by some of the things he does but remain at least to some degree sympathetic to the character after his choices lead him to his fate at the end of ROTS. Likewise with Count Dooku although his character isn't expanded upon massively in the prequel movies, the clone wars tv show, books and comics and of course most notably Tales of the Jedi really flesh out Dooku's character and back story to that of the fallen hero much like Anakin. Most notably of all Palpatines apprentices though is how we the audience find sympathy with a character who only appears in the 1st prequel movie and has about 2 lines of dialogue. Despite the horrifying appearance and brutality of Darth Maul I find him to be the character most deserving of sympathy perhaps in the whole Star Wars saga. Again the Clones Wars and Rebels tv series and the Son of Dathomir comics wonderfully show this characters strength, power and brutality but also have the character evoke a Pathos that few other characters in Star Wars can match. You could say Maul had a choice as well but he was certainly not on a level playing field with Anakin and Dooku when it came to making choices. Stolen from his mother as a young boy by Palpatine and put through a level of training that perhaps no other jedi or sith have ever endured, Mauls choices were made for him and the Hate that was forged in him was something he could never let go of, not until Obi Wan Kenobi's blade cut him down for the final time on the sands of Tattooine. So yes it is no wonder we as an audience have no sympathy for Sheev Palpatine because he is the traditional villain. No redeeming qualities, interested only in power for the sake of power, unable to love or truly be friends with anyone. And for all that perhaps he truly is to be pitied.

8:46 I haven't seen the leaked trailer, but this line just sounds like a Sith justifying what they do. Which makes sense, from their perspective. But you can still have a show like the Acolyte showing things from their perspective while also not implying that the Sith aren't that bad after all.

The main issue I often see with disney star wars is that the semblance of a good idea is justification to make a terrible product and then point to the good idea as if that is enough. The idea of showing the sith believing that they are doing the "good" thing could be the basis of a good story; as long as the story shows that they are the the villains of their own story. But instead it will be garbage and then disney fans will defend it by the potentially good idea, and make a strawman of what it could be, instead of the trash that it is.

The idea of morally ambiguous characters being interpreted as "there is no good or evil" misses the point, in my opinion. People (and therefore characters in a story) are not perfectly good or perfectly evil, but good and evil still exists. Else, why would we feel bad when characters make bad choices? We can still say things like genocide or murder is wrong, even if the people doing it feel justified. If a character believes there is no good or evil, that's one thing. But if the story says that good and evil don't matter, then the choices characters make are not good or bad either. It becomes a selfish, and relativistic outlook on life. Which is oddly both praised and looked down upon in today's society.

Hey Thor, how would you feel if more franchises like Star Wars took a crack at Marvel’s What If series? For me I think it could be a cool way for stuff to be explored without actually being in canon and could expand different scenarios. Like What If Anakin helped Mace Windu defeat Palpatine, or What If Anakin beat Obi-Wan, etc. I feel like it’s a great concept that is only ever explored in Marvel despite being a good way to re-explore topics and places that were in the older media.

I never understood making every villain sympathetic. It doesn't reflect the real world. There are plenty of narcissistic, cruel, greedy people who simply do bad because they enjoy it.

Its not that theres no good or evil, its that individual people are not entirely good or evil... we are all a flawed mix of both, you try to nuture one in those close to you... and try to counter the other... and (as per RoTJ) anyone can be redeemed etc. Modern Disney writers/producers etc, seemed to have lived the most decadent and narcicistic of lives... so its no surprise to me that they cannot produce anything of any real lasting worth. Those who can do, those who cant... end up leaching of of someone elses IP.

Even with well-written Sith villains, like Darth Bane, or Darth Sion, there's no doubt that they're NOT good people by how self-serving they are, butchering innocent people, seeking power, and in the case of Sion, even _wearing_ the corruption on his literal skin like a bright shining talisman.

Yeah, that bothered me. I remember a couple years back that people were branding the jedi as the bad guys, and anakin as a sympathizer. Even though he slaughtered kids. I cannot understand where this came from. but It happened long before Disney bought out Star Wars.

Hey Thor I was wondering, you have talked quite a bit about your worries for the Acolyte and I want to know, what are some of the things you hope the shows does beyond not screwing up the duality of the light and Darkside. While I think there is alot of potential for things in the show to go wrong based on what we have hear people say in reference to it. I think there might also be an interesting story to be told here if handled correctly. So what are some of the things you are hoping for with Star Wars Acolyte.

Something I liked was that in the original films there was no Light Side. There was the Force, and a Dark Side to the Force, but Obi-Wan and Yoda never talked about there being a Light Side to the Force. I think it made that story better, because there being no "Light Side" didn't mean there was no Light. Luke was told that his father was more machine than man, and that Anakin was gone, and he had to kill Vader to defeat the Sith. But Luke took Yoda's words about the luminous beings beyond the crude matter to heart, and looked past the machine to find the light in his father. I know I'm never getting that kind of Star Wars back because I don't think Lucas intended it, but I love the idea that there is no greater Light that will oppose Darkness or Evil, you have to find it in yourself and in others, and THAT is the strength of the Jedi. Believing in themselves and others, and lifting each other up instead of taking the easier selfish path. Star Wars can tell very complex stories without having to explicitly be Good vs Evil. And without having to go "Hurr hurr, there is no Dark Side, Force Lightning go brrrr!" Because I'm just expecting Grey Jedi stupidity to be the next step. The idea I had about Star Wars when I was 13 is going to be how they'll think to give a story 'depth'. Because "I want to shoot lightning but not have people say I'm a bad person." is such an amazing idea for a story.

Some things are so bad it's time to just give up and have a wake bury what was and look forward to new things

The ending of TRoS is so flipping terrible...I cannot believe that anyone thought that was a good idea.

*The Hero with a Thousand Faces* is a book that goes into this struggle of "Good vs. Evil" and the arc of the hero, it is a common theme that mankind has embraced since antiquity.

Star Wars died the day George Lucas sold it. Many of us were in denial but I give credit to Disney for allowing us to stop grieving by defiling it beyond recognition. I’m not even upset anymore just completely apathetic. They can keep making all the awful high budget fan fiction they want I have no intention to watch anymore.

My question would be: in storytelling, are "degrees" of "bad" that are now preferable and are "degrees" of "good" that now are unacceptable? It would seem that creatively, some of the people in the entertainment industry do not know the answer anymore.

Imagine if the Sith in Acolyte also have the Chosen One and it would turn out to be Palpatine...

Hey Thor, after watching the Disney era shows I’m noticing an under lying anti democracy message. I don’t think it’s intentional but every time we see the Republic they are uncaring about the people, incompetent, corrupt and self serving. Either the New Republic appearing far more in new media than the Empire it seems we are seeing the Republic being a bad government far more than we are the Empire. Do you think the writers have an anti democracy bias or is this just a symptom of bad writing?

If done correctly, this doesn't have to be a bad thing. There's a difference between characters in a story viewing themselves as good and it is explicitly clear that there are truly no bad guys. Starting with "The best part of Star Wars is there is no good or evil it depends on what side you're standing on..." this statement obviously isn't true. However, it is realistic and many fans especially older ones do want a more grounded portrayal of Star Wars, such as with Andor. To an extent ideas like this have also been explored in SWTOR without any harm coming to the narrative. There's no reason that a realistic portrayal would need to put down the Jedi and prop up the Sith as being misunderstood as the theme. Realistically, there isn't a conflict in which one side agrees that they are the good guys and the other agrees that they are the bad guys. If you look at what the Sith fundamentally believe in it's essentially Nietzsche's master morality or "might makes right." They don't think they're the bad guys, nor should they. They subscribe to a different ethical system in which power is the only real factor, in which power determines morality. And so, "This isn't about good or bad it's about power and who's allowed to use it." makes complete sense as a statement a Sith would make. Of course, in our world, we have largely determined what system of morality we as a society follow. However, the philosophical differences between the Jedi and the Sith, especially in terms of how each views morality is something that is interesting to explore. If a story is to be grounded, the characters within it should either believe that what they are doing is right or have a reason not to care otherwise. Well-written villains don't do evil for the sake of evil, they do evil because they personally have no reason to view it as not good.

Well, some dark jedi did create the Sith we know in Legends. But tbh, I would love a Sith show about Antihero Sith fighting villains worse than them. Hope the Acolyte is like that.

11:00 just made me think: What kind of story would we get about a Jedi who, for reasons, can't rely on backup from the order and has to make own (tough) dcisions? And I don't mean like Luke, who had no experience with working with official Jedi superiors in the first place (yes, Kenobi and Yoda don't count. They fully knew that the Last Hope was anything but a regularly trained Jedi). But maybe this story exists somewhere in print and anybody can recommend it?

That’s why Jacen turned in legends. Post Vong invasion there was an idea there was no light or dark side. It’s what you use the force for. If use force lightning to stop a murderer or kidnapped then you used it for a good cause. What they forgot is how the dark side twists your mind. It make you do more and more extreme things and justify you are doing it for good. Jacen believed he was helping make the galaxy safer for his daughter and other families.

I would argue that the Jedi order is to represent that dogmatism can get in the way of doing what is right. Luke shows that attachments are good but cannot be gripped to the point of defying and resenting nature itself like Vader did

The moral of Star Wars usually is that even if you were initially presented as gray or morally conflicted, eventually you had to choose a side, even if you were part of one side, then flipped to the other. It's part of the fate that calls to us in terms of choices and consequences. Without that combination, characters become ill-defined and ultimately uninteresting. Palpatine's "sympathy", in essence, is that he just... wanted... to have... _p e a c e_ ... through his way or the hyperway.

The reason why I don't think trying to skewer the line between good and evil to be a problem is because, remember, this is a show where the Sith are the protagnoists. There's Sith in Star Wars that are outright evil and others who justify it. Strictly sticking to the Legends continuity... Exar Kun says he wanted to learn the secrets of the Sith to combat the Sith but placed himself in a situation where he had to accept the dark side or die. Revan strategically attacked different planets but as the Disciple would note, he left certain infrastructures untouched. On the other hand, Malak was obsessed with becoming a conquerer. Darth Bane simply had a messed up childhood and life before he joined the Imperial military and then the Sith Order. His draw to the dark side was more smooth. Anakin was driven to save his wife and Palpatine promised him that power in the dark side. Palpatine himself made the choice because he's a selfish individual. Caedus did it to save the galaxy but he committed many atrocities and nearly killed many whom he tried to protect. Not to mention he killed his aunt, Mara Jade as a sacrifice for his ascension to the Sith. Darth Krayt was tempted through anger and a desire for revenege. He became emperor as he saw the galaxy to maintain order under his rule. Good and evil is clearly apparent but like in many stories, its the dilemnas and sometimes it's not so easy to make the right choice or get to where you want unless you make a contract with a demon.

The Darth Plagueis novel from Legends, considered one of the best, gave us Palpatine's back story while making it clear that he was a sociopathic bad apple from the start just waiting for Darth Plagueis to notice him. It very much does not make Palpatine sympathetic, and I admire it for that in this day and age.

The reason I was excited for the acolyte is because we would’ve seen a Sith in action, but if the Sith seems like a weakling who complains about the system, that will be the final nail in the coffin for Star Wars

It is a well-argued Thor short as always. Considering that neither the Prequels nor the Sequels investigated the Sith much, I am looking forward to seeing The Acolyte. Comments here mention the computer game KOTOR, let us also remember Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, which delved into Dark Side lore that informed our experience of the films. I personally thought then that the Prequels might travel to Korriban or other Sith-related places but was fine when the focus remained on the disintigrating good in Anakin. Also George Lucas‘ decision that the Jedi do treat Anakin harshly and are not entirely open to the public concerning their waning powers - which leads to their demise. So to be finally introduced to a Sith-centric live action series is an intriguing proposition. The Expanded Universe did not erode our understanding of Palpatine as the ultimate bad, nor did that fabulous Plaguis novel make us label Vader the ruthless murderer of one of Naboo’s finest diplomats. Lando was a greyiah character, who may have acted against our heroes but elevated TESB by being organically driven by his care for his citizens. Regardless of our Sequel-era experiences with real world agendas and what not, I appreciate your well-put concerns but recommend that we all see the a couple of Acolyte episodes first. There is room for nuance in Star Wars villainy (think Jerjerrod, Piett, the Fetts), which I feel the franchise has always had.

Funny how Harvey Weinstein's personal assistant gets a Star Wars gig and suddenly we're pumping the brakes on "good vs evil."

There is another thing. In the 70s, you mentioned it, there was the war in vietnam and Watergate. So a lot of people must have felt like rebels against an evil government. It was clearly a thing between good and evil. Nowadays not only the government is divided, but also the people. And in the old movies, jedi and rebels were the good guys, but before and after the empire, they were the government. So, who is going to decide between good and evil now?

Star Wars will continue to struggle under Disney because they don't understand this. They don't respect what Star Wars had become. You can tell meaningful stories that inspire us without having to force an agenda. You can tell good stories about flawed people trying to do the right thing. People fail. That is reality. The good stories are the ones when they pick themselves back up and try again. It's why I like Captain America so much. He fails sometimes. But he always picks himself back up and defiantly exclaims, "I can do this all day."

"...or when, uh, Rey becomes all the Jedi and kills him again in the next trilogy." I had to rewind it about a minute after this line because I was laughing so hard. Great job, Thor!

I won`t say Star Wars isn`t complex in some areas, there are interesting and complex characters But there are things in Star Wars lore that are pretty damn easy to understand. How many people theses days seem to not get these basic ideas and values, people who work in projects is actually mind blowing. Acolyte is an example of people where I am just really confused how you can get it so wrong when they talk about Star Wars. Especially since the main topic of the show - being a learner of the dark side of the force - should be really easy to get.

Strange that the Acolyte is the first Disney Star Wars show that will most perfectly fit the description of putting a chick in it and making her gay and lame.

They don't know, AND they don't care. They only care about how many fans there are for them to push their messages to.

There seems to be confusion between the force dark side/unifying force and the Sith(order)/sith(race) at disney... The "DARK" side as an aspect was redeemable but the Sith Order was not.

It’s time for Star Wars to end.

“Going down a path I can’t follow” I see that Superman vs the Elite reference, Thor, and I salute you for it

The Jedi were not evil, didnt do anything wrong, and only failed in the sense that they were too naive in complying with the Chancellor & the corrupted Senate. And that's that.

I sincerely hope that The Acolyte isn't as you've described. The 'point of view' argument for good and evil can be murky to navigate for children but one of the points the Prequels made was *not* that these abstracts did not exist, but that it was harder to see which was which in the midst of conflict. As the Clone Wars were settled, Palpatine besmirched the Jedi as enemies and lied about the origins of the war to amass more and more power for himself and brought unthinkable suffering to billions of people. To say that good and evil don't exist is to say that *might makes right* and that power to accomplish your own will is all that matters. That is a self-destructive argument and I really, really hope that's not the angle they go with.

I don’t know about the people making it but I mean you can’t really say they the emperor from rise of (the) skywalker(s) (I added the braced bits to make it fit better as Ray is not a skywalker and never will be but she can choose to become part of the family making it more of a clan, but back on topic) the emperor is evil I think that is unarguable (and if you do your flat out wrong at best and stupid/criminally insane at worst). I think what a lot of people are thinking with modern Star Wars is something I’ve always thought, the Force isn’t goor or evil it just is, it’s kinda like saying electricity is evil when someone gets electrocuted, it isn’t it’s just doing what it dose and if someone or something gets in it’s way that’s just a shame it didn’t plan to kill them. It’s people that turn the force to evil intentions, now it is a little more complicated as it dose have a natural dark and light side but the dark side can be used for good intentions like say you use the dark side of the force to free a planet full of slaves and you set them all free (it’s the idea of a light side sith which are the more interesting characters to play in setting as they aren’t just psychopaths).

Star Wars is a good vs evil story. Especially looking at it's mythological elements like the Force, Stih and Jedi. That doesn't mean you can't have grey areas such as those shown in Andor. But if your show is specifically dealing with the Force, than the world building has been clearly established and there's no grey to be had. It's either the Force or the Dark Side.

The truest Sith revel in evil. Palpatine LOVED being evil and RotS was basically the best day of his life. While Anakin had many good qualities, he was also a selfish person who was willing to lie to even his closest friends and family to protect himself. The modern Disney-Lucasfilm writers do not understand this, or rather they don't respect this, and they are indeed taking the franchise down w path that even a diehard fan of 40 years like myself cannot follow.

The people running Lucasfilm have clearly made that choice already. The only hope for the franchise is that they collectively and individually have someone who can be the Luke who turns the Darth

The thing is, if Star Wars were nothing but a Good vs. Evil story, everything would have been said by 1983. So having nuances and variety is essential to make it interesting. That's why Andor is so good.

I dont even necessarily think that adding complexity to the strict "Good vs Evil" story is a bad thing. Obviously at the end of the day you need the audience on the side of the good guys but that doesn't mean that those good guys can do no wrong or questionable deeds. Luke blew up an entire Death Star in Ep 4 after all, and it doesn't take a lotnof nuanced discussion to know that the station wasn't only home to soldiers, officers and generals. There would be janitors, maintenance crews, cantina staff, all innocent people who are just trying to live their own lives in the shadow of the empire. But we know that destroying the station was a necessity lest the rebellion be destroyed, so killing those innocents was a necessary evil. But that adds nuance to the Rebellion, where we hope they're successful but we still see that not everything they do is just strictly good

The Lightsaber, a Jedi Tool and a Sith Weapon. Jedi feel and listen to the Force, while the Sith bend it to their will. Jedi becoming one with the Force, the Sith seek to out live it. The Lightside enlightens the user, whike the Darkside takes a toll on the user. KOTOR 2 did a prefect job showing use the differences between the Jedi and Sith, showing how the Dark and Light affects not just you, but those around you as well. Disney Star Wars has failed in this, for in their own movies Kylo showed no signs of Darkside corruption. Then they keep pushing the idea everything is just from ones perspective, and this idea has seen our heroes fall. Becoming husk of once great men. How they treat new age storytelling is like reading the Bible, and being told Jesus was evil from some peoples point of view. Even though Jesus died to save us all. But it's about weakening the ideas of good and evil. Which is a very real thing is this world.

I think they confuse the ideas of "complex characters with differing motivations can create interesting plot lines" lines with "good guys are boring and grey characters are better, so lets make them all grey by adopting a nihilistic worldview".

I know it ia a different franchise, o e that you might not like or know much about, but the same thing happened to Warcraft's Titans. They used to be these enigmatic strictly good guys, who never showed up, but we knew that they were the force for good. And then over the last few years they have slowly been retconed into just another morally grey group, may e even the bad guys in the upcoming WoW expansions.

Saying the people currently working on Star Wars don’t understand it is like saying the Earth is round: It’s an undeniably absolute fact, but no matter how few may think otherwise, it’s still a concerning amount and it raises a lot of questions in your head about said-individuals, including but not limited to what could happen if they are allowed to spread what’s very basically the opposite of factual.

I was a teenager back in '77 and I don't think George was trying to promote any ideas of moral relativism.....not that there weren't others in Hollywood who were. In fact, I would go as far as to say one of the most popular things about the OT with the general audience were the themes of good vs. evil.

Hey, Thor! I've recently re-watched The Last Jedi, giving it a new chance, since lots of my friends states it as the best SW movie. And I am really surprised with main plot and inner plots of this movie. It's far from being the best of the franchise, but it's not a bad movie. I definitely overcome my previous opinions about it and I realized it was not Johnson's fault at all the mess or bad writing of that trilogy. I had only watched it once in the theaters. I was really upset and disappointed back then. I don't know if I have become numb after all these shows (mostly bad ones) delivered by Disney, but it's very interesting how opinions can easily change in different moments of out lives. I think what upsets me the most in this movie is the out-of-place jokes, Rose"s "saving what we love" scene and Leia's Mary Poppins scene. I hated Luke's character back then, but I'm totally buying it now. Have you had the opportunity to re-watch the whole trilogy?

Can't wait to miss The Acolyte.

When Thor swears you know something is up.

The comment at 8:52 (something like "this is not about good and bad, but about power and who is allowed to use it") I think reflects the philosophy of people behind Star Wars these days. I can't believe they are so explicit about it. It makes me think they are not aware of how problematic this is or they just don't care. Maybe this was taken out of context and they are not in favor of this.

Hey Thor, what do you think about the current place of "legacy characters" (Luke, Vader, Leia, Han, Obi-wan, Yoda, etc.) in the current state of things? I really want to see a Luke Skywalker post ROTJ series, or Yoda in a pre-prequel film, but how much of these characters is too much? I think they've been overusing characters like Ahsoka and Rex but I'm not sure about main characters. Does Star Wars need to keep its legacy characters around or lean into original characters more?

George Lucas: “One of the issues in all of this is, that bad guys think they're good, and Lord Sidious thinks he's bringing peace to the galaxy, because there's so much corruption and confusion and chaos going on, and that now he's going to be able to straighten everything out, which may be true, but the price the galaxy's going to have to pay for it is way too much." The Sith are the heroes of their own story. They don’t believe they’re going bad. Legends and novels portrayed them in this light. The films, however, added a mustache-twirling element to the cackling Palpatine. I’d love to see an Andor-styled Sith story. Grounded but with a healthy dose of mysticism.

Anyone interested in Palpatines backstory needs to read the Darth Plagueis novel, its written extremely well, very rich of lore and expands the world in the best way.

I don’t think you have to worry about the Acolyte. I really doubt it will ever be finished

The biggest flaw of the Jedi was their marriage to the government, which is why in Legends, Luke's New Jedi Order held the New Republic at arm's length.

I would say that quote you mentioned is true from a certain point of view. In the story there is clear good and evil but the individuals with the exception of Palpatine (who doesn’t care) and possibly Vader (who probably knows he is evil but knows that there is no going back from what he has done) think that they are the good guys. Characters like Thrawn and most other Imperials believe that they are doing the right thing or in Thrawn’s case the necessary thing. But I think no reasonable person can watch the Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy and objectively say that the Jedi and their allies (I didn’t say the Republic because of how corrupt it was and was overall worse than its opponent since if not for Dooku and the leadership the Confederacy Of Independent Systems would be the full on good guys) and Rebellion were the villains of the story. There is nuance but there is clear good and evil unless genocide is something you consider morally acceptable which is a whole other problem with you.

1970s was the “post modern” era of film. The rise of the anti-hero. Star Wars was definitely not that and it was a part of its success. Current film studies actually cite Star Wars as being part of ushering in the more hero oriented 80s films. The mid 90s and 2000s (Tarantino etc) ushered in a different take on the antihero, which scholars refer to the meta postmodern era. Today’s Star Wars is generally meta postmodern. The villains are sometimes just evil, but often their justification is shown to the audience. I don’t think Star Wars really needs to be a part of this current trend. Perhaps for shows like Andor, to give the universe more depth and a wider variety of characters. But the “mainline” should be classical, modern storytelling.

"Good is a point of view, Anakin." - Chancellor Palpatine

Hey Thor can you do a video about JRR Tolkien’s famous quote on allegory (included bellow) and how it relates to modern storytelling. I looked at the quote in a paper I did for college about a year ago and it was interesting and it just popped into my head as an interesting topic. I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.

2:30 to to 2:55 you smoked that, well said😮‍💨

Most villians have one or more traumatic moments in their past that led them to make decisions that resulted in them becoming the villians they became. However, that doesn't excuse the villianry. It's about the choices we make when we have those moments that determine our character.

I've watched all the live action Disney SW shows and movies, most to my regret but there is no way in hell I'm watching Acolytes unless numerous reviewers say it's better than CATS. I'll even watch a second season of Obi-Wan just to see if they can un-f*ck what they did in season 1, but Acolytes? No thanks.

Just finished Loki... and that's it for Disney+. I'll be back when Andor 2 comes out.

The "World Around" that is reflected on movies today, I feel it has too much Social media and not real real world.

I think the idea that there should be some good guys is where the first two seasons of Picard went wrong. It was all dark, the Federation was turning evil. see, just like current events. But that was not the universe the show belonged in. When the creators reversed it back toward the happy crew centric it had been, things were much better.

To be fair, the prequels kind of had an undercurrent of politics being an issue, but it didn't focus heavily on that. Honestly, I feel like the films somewhat suffered for it, though, simply because these things were clearly affecting events, but barely noted.