It doesn’t make sense how Egwene could free herself. How can she touch the A’dam when she intended to hurt Rena with it? It makes no sense in the lore they established in the show. They’re not even listening to their own show-lore.
Honestly I’m not sure. Robert Jordan, for the most part, made things function and make sense but they’re having a hard time managing the same world that’s already been sorted out in the books 😅
It's lazy writing based on the idea that they want to show egwene as being capable quickly of becoming the AS without putting the proper time in to develop her character. Basically they are rushing everything and can't fit things in properly and it's a mistake.
@@robertsharples7025 I thought her episode where she first deals with being collared was great, but I personally didn’t need her to save herself- that’s a really good moment for her and Nynaeve and Elayne.
@@melanietahnayeah same, too many good moments being missed at the moment. Look what's happened to Matt, and Rand too, essentially zero sword training so far at a point in the books he's already bested one blade master.
I'm probably in minority, but I found second season to be far worse. If they replaced plot points from the book with different, of their own, I could understand. But there is just so much pointless, soap opera character drama that serves no purpose. Rand's infatuation with Lanfear, Lan moping around, Alanna with her warders, Moiraine with her family...compare this to what happens in the book: sense of horror/adventure, travelling alternate worlds, Portal stones and waygates, what happens at Toman head, Ingtar, etc. Besides this, they completely disgarded how RJ chose to depict character and their development, and replaced it with what they thought was a "better idea". Which 99% of the time in modern cinema, turns out to be for the worse.
I do think they need to be careful with what they replace. I don’t mind changes from the books if they still manage to focus on main characters properly.
@@ArthurSullivan-cq4uw honestly I’ve found a lot of mixed groups, some people who hate the show and some who love. As far as I’ve seen it’s been pretty evenly split, but that could also be just the groups I join and posts I see.
I had a real problem with some elements at the end. The biggest being Ewgene freeing herself. Ive seen all kinds of apologetics, but they are retroactively trying to explain away something that inherently violates the establish logic of the show. Regardless of whether Egwene is unsure the adam will work on Renna, she has only one reason to put it on her. One and only one. To force her to free her. And knowing Renna- and her own repeated experience with the Adam- there was no way she wasn't going to have to use it to hurt her for that to happen. But he act of picking it up and putting it on is (regardless of whether she thought it would work), in and of itself, an act of violence that egwene knows all too well. If it works, it is an act of violence. And she knew it would work. She had figured out the truth already. She took the risk because she was certain. Just 2 episodes ago we had an amazing and well written story where thinking of using the water jug as a weapon meant days of no water or wash until she was convinced to her core that she would not use it as a weapon. Because a water jug is not inherently a weapon nor does its basic use produce pain. She can use a water jug and not.cause pain. Everything she's experienced of the Adam shows that it is fundamentally different. It is a tool who's use is only to hurt- physically or mentally/spiritually (through the power, as Nynaeve did to the suldam.) By the shows own lore and logic, there is now way she could have collared Renna. Her hand would have curled up. That is all FROM the show itself, not the books. The problem is one that many have pointed out. They wanted a cool fanboi squee moment, so they decided to have Egwene use the Adam to free herself. To hell with logic. It was just a great moment. They also decided that after being almost blown up, nearly choked out, and then thrown at least 30 feet in rock strewn rubble, Egwene was still capable of holding off Ishamael for a while. Again, excuses (Ishy was playing with her, he wanted to die) are outside explanations for something that, based on the shows own internal logic, make no sense. 1. Strength is meaningless if you have training. Siuan shielded Rand despite his raw power. It.helped that he couldn't see female weaves. But Egwene cannot see male weaves. And Ishamael already shielded an incredibly well trained Aes Sedai (moiraine) without breaking a sweat. 2. Egwene is not as strong as Nynaeve. Ishamael is one of the forsaken with knowledge and much higher power. Much much stronger. 3. Egwene has been physically put through the ringer during the last hour Channeling requires physical stamina. There is no way she could hold out for any length of time against Ishamael. Again, though, the showrunner wanted that badass fanboi squee moment....and he got it. Just like Moiraine on the beach channeling and killing people....in violation of oaths on the oath rod. Oaths we saw that she could not violate just 2 episodes earlier. But I like to remind people of all the fanboi squee moments from the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Luke against the AtAts. Rey against Kylo. The good guy fleet against the Sith fleet at exogol. Etc. All moments that people cheered and felt WERE star wars....until you started thinking about it...and realized that it made no sense. The more you thought, the dumber it seemed. Things didn't add up. Motivations were ridiculous. Things felt contrived. It felt artifical and manipulative. Cheap. That's how I feel about both season finales. They are cheap and manipulative and they will throw out any logic or previously established informations for that quick rush.... A cheap and unearned rush that loses any sense of meaning or coolness (beyond the idea of someone being badass just because the showrunner wanted her to be.) Which is a shame. This season has had some great writing. The cast is perfect. But the uneven pacing and wasted time really drag it down. i dont want to hear how it is amazons fault for not giving more episodes when they waste time in each season on things or characters that have no role or place in the main story. Until they use their time budget effectively, i dont see why giving them more would make things better. And the showrunners refusal to give all the main characters a story, an arc, characterization, and agency make harder to connect with them. Perrin is still not doing anything. Despite the Lanfear Moiraine stuff, ran still is 2 dimensional and reacts to the pattern, having no agency or ability. Mat is yanked along and then magically given a climax that feels unearned. Lan is a lost puppy without Moiraine and wanders around. And as i said, the showrunners insistance on the cool moments over actual story make me worry. Becauee there are great writers on the show. And fantastic actors. But the execution is seriously flawed. I dont know why season 3 will be any different either.
Ishamael expends unimaginable quantities of energy and some time to release Lanfear, but apparently he had plenty of time to destroy six seals while working a full time job with Suroth, and a bunch of other projects.
it did annoy the hell out of me that she pushed the arrow through without breaking off the feathers, you have to cut them off or something or you’ll just make the wound worse when you push it through. this is like such a minor detail lol but it bothered me😂😂 i LOVE mat in this episode i love the spear boys as well.
Halfway through vid. But some thoughts. There is 14 books, i never expected them to include everything. Impossible. But to take out stuff from books and to add new stuff, like morraines stilling, why?? We waited so long for this and i feel disappointed with what rafe has done. So many conflicting emotions with this show. Theres some moments where i really enjoyed it. Anything with the aiel has been good imo. Showing them as insane warriors. The actress for Lanfear was great. I like rands casting. The new matt. I hope rafe follows the books next seasons. Ill forgive these first two
You ask what's plausable in the magic/world system? None of it. The ways don't need a channeler and they only use it in the most desperate time because the trollocs and the black wind are in there. The warder bond can't be broken by shielding. The aes sedai can't break the three oaths, and shielding makes no difference. Channeling at the level of normal individuals like Moriane shouldn't cover miles. In fact shielding Rand from off the coast made no sense. Basically they didn't use any of the source material. They just use the terminology and make up their own stuff. Countless logically incoherent stuff, but here's a couple eyesores to note: Cloth can't hold a dagger to a spear for use in combat You can't cover the desert with smoke from incense and charge a gate house, nor take a city with a handful of men Characters: Rand killing people with the one power is crazy. He doesn't even know who they are in the show and barely in the books. The sword fight made sense because it was inside and he was cornered. Rand doesn't really numb to death until he sees how the peasents are treated in Tear and sets up a more fair justice system. Rand really shouldn't even be in this adaptation. He's useless. Nynaeve and Elayne are also completely useless in this show. Maybe Elayne would have been a good character but she took an arrow to the knee. Egwene. Like the other girls, she was robbed of some of her best moments when they should be all out chasing the black ajah. But also, by freeing herself from the sul'dam and not letting Nynaeve and Elayne rescue her, she never learns how helpless it is to be collared by the sanchan. She goes into a much darker place in the books and learns a much more valuable lesson as a character Mat: nothing he's doing makes any sense. The shroom tea, stabbing Rand with the dagger (book rand would be dead), the dagger-staff. He blew the horn to save himself rather than he's friends (that's crazy to me)
Honestly I totally get a ton of these points, but I do think that it wasn’t the shield that cut off the warder bond, it’s just that Moraine temporarily cut off the bond, then was shielded and couldn’t return the bond. Other than that you make very good points. I did not like Rand killing those people like that, and I really really wanted some swordplay. Oh well 😅
@@melanietahna of course have been cynical, but I felt a moment of joy when the sword fight was about to begin. Are you sure masking the bond and severing it feels the same? The books don't cover the exact scenario but still seems like a stretch
@@jamesalexander958 I’m honestly not sure, that’s just how I saw because I thought she masked it before she left with Rand at the finale of season 1. But still, it seems like they don’t understand weaves and the limits of Aes Sedai, though I do like the imagery of the weaves. And any cynicism is valid because we love the Wheel of Time, it’s something so important to so many of us!
The Ways don't need a channeller, but a channeller can use them. There aren't normally Trollocs in the ways, but Machin Shin is. Padan Fain used the ways in S1 with a key, but that exposition was pretty much cut from the show. The warder bond isn't broken with a shield, but it's never stated if a masked bond can be unmasked while the sister is shielded. Re-establishing the bond seemed lengthy for an unmasking, but with all the build up a long moment seemed fitting. It's unclear if Moiraine merely masked the bond, or dropped it completely. It's possible that she cancelled it completely, fearing she would die going to the Eye of the World. By being shielded, she would be unable to re-establish it when she got back. This confuses me, because of all the talk about passing the bond to Alanna, which you can't do if there's nothing to pass. Aes Sedai can't break their oaths, but they can interpret them incredibly loosely. I had some issues with this in this episode too. Channelling doesn't have any range limits in the books, though it's usually sight based. Cloth can't hold a dagger to a spear for combat (at least not tied like that) But it is a magic dagger, and some artistic license is fair. I'm not sure when that dagger became a cutting torch, but if anyone knows what it can do, it's Mat, and it was a creative solution to the problem. Splitting the staff, inserting the dagger in the notch, and then binding it would have worked. And wetting the cloth, tying it then drying would have been strong enough to hold it properly, but who has time to show all that? We don't have any incense that would produce that much smoke, but in the books they went in without any attempt at covering their approach. Of course, I'd have preferred it if it was accompanied by some infiltration Whitecloaks at the gate to keep it open a little longer, and the cavalry charge to not be shouting that they were coming, but films often go for cinematic over realistic. Whitecloaks using incense burning 'alter boys' is very on brand though. Elayne completely useless? But who healed Rand - and you yourself said that would should have killed him. And if Nynaeve hadn't been there to help her get to the top of the tower, then she wouldn't have been able to. Not everybody has to be useful in every episode though, and Nynaeve has had some big scenes this series. Rand less so, but him killing Turok and entourage is fair. Note, he only kills the armed ones, and has a 'justification line' that they were the ones who had done this to Egwene. I do feel he deserves a few more moments in later seasons, but I'm also confident that he will get them. Mat blew the horn (IMHO) because he needed to get to Rand. If he wanted to just save himself, he could have just run back the way he came. I don't want to defend everything the show did, and there are some pretty big leaps that took me out of things for a bit, but there wasn't really enough time in the show to go into these things, or spend much time on them. The way Nynaeve dealt with Elayne's arrow injury was, quite frankly, terribly handled. Ingtar's death was abrupt, and I can take him not really having his moment because the show hasn't developed him as a character sufficiently, but he didn't even hold the path for long. Even if he did, the rest of the group were just watching, so didn't get away from their pursuers. I could nit pick other things, but by and large the show entertained me, and It really felt like the Wheel of Time
@@davidmcgarry4355 "Padan Fain used the ways in S1 with a key, but that exposition was pretty much cut from the show." yeah, that's very much still an issue, considering just in this episode they once again imply you can't open the Ways' gates without the OP. And this RUINS one of the better world building elements around the Male Channelers, once again, ANOTHER change which intentionally or unintentionally shows the men in the series in a worse light than in the books, for no apparent narrative reason, considering the point the books were making was that both genders need to work together and communicate rather than separate through fear and mistrust. "I do feel he deserves a few more moments in later seasons, but I'm also confident that he will get them." this line is crazy, imagine someone without context reading this part of your comment, how would they ever imagine you're describing THE MAIN CHARACTER. "A few more moments" do I cry or do I laugh. "but there wasn't really enough time in the show to go into these things, or spend much time on them" No, you don't get to make this argument considering how many new plotlines and characters were uselessly thrown in for no reason other than drama and Moiraine becoming The Main Character.
It was a significant improvement over season 1 ep 8, but far from perfect. I thought having eggy free herself was the worst choice they could make there, having her hold her own vs ishy was even worse. They keep making choices like this with the girls, which is sad because they do so much right there. Rand killing the high lord with the power is the right choice for the show imo. The have not spent enough time with him learning to sell him being on a level to fight anyone let alone a blade master. I think they need to give Rand some bigger hero moments but I can live with the slower burn for him. I thought Mat was the best part of the final. Its rushed, does not really make sense but its so much fun :) I hate that these events likely mean that certain doorways may not making the show but they had to get Mat to a likeable character by the end of this season. Perrins story has been hacked up but in the end the important pieces are in place. Lan finally won a fight :) A banner would have been better then the fire dragon. It would have been nice to have more then 3 Aiel, but I guess that's for the future. The 3 we got were great. Now for the season overall why bother with the df social or playing up Ingtar if your not going to bother with the reveal in the end. The same goes for the fade nailed to the door early in the season, why is it in there ?
Okay we were wondering about Ingtar and everything, like they totally hint toward his secrets and then don’t reveal that at all! That would be a good added piece to Perrin’s moral questions/struggles. At first I loved Egwene’s scene but then of course, the hopelessness of her scenario would be better proved if the girls had to save her. But man, it still was so much fun. I’ll take what I can get!
But what about all the other woman that were collared? Are we to feel they could just free themselves if they just have the moral fibre that eggy has? Facing off against ishy right after too? Ishy would turn her into a pretzel in about two seconds. The show is good fun you are right about that, but I counter it could be great if they start following what should and should not be possible in the world the author made.@@melanietahna
@@smaug1234 I don’t think that’s what made Egwene able to escape. I think they were saying she was able to collar Renna, and then was the more powerful suldam between them. If that makes sense? But for sure, I don’t disagree with you? They need to hone in on the actual capabilities within the world. I also think Egwene could stand up to Ishamael for a shorter amount of time, it was just awkward how they timed it.
Having Rand shoot Turak isn’t terrible per se, but it being an obvious lift from Indiana Jones can take a viewer out of the scene. I also thought having Moraine pull a Harry Potter Patronus was even more disruptive to the story.
I can totally understand the issue many readers had with the episode. It was very different from the books. I agree the whitecloak interactions were done very well and showed that the world is grey. Also agree the new Mat is perfect. I agree ishy didnt seem to try and stop rand which was confusing. Overall despite the changes i really enjoyed it and cannot wait for s3.
Maybe take some notes if you're about to make a video and have trouble remembering names. There are hundreds of names in the books, so it's understandable...
I was annoyed by Nynaeve's continued helplessness in the face of her friend Elayne's wound. Someone needed to slap her and say "Snap out of it!" I also agree that the Heroes of the Horn needed to be identified better, particularly Birgitte! She is super important to the story later. The Heroes of the Horn's appearance seemed rushed and a bit cheesy. Exciting nevertheless, but cheesy. Also both times when Rand was supposed to sword dual they fudged on it. Is the actor just terrible at making realistic sword fighting and they had to have a shoddy workaround? I don't get it. Or is it that the women are supposed to be in the strong roles in this adaptation like Rings of Power? But no, because Lan is a bad ass! It just makes no sense at all. Why even give him the Heron-Marked sword at all? Some things about this show are spectacular! The big battle between Whitecloaks and Seanchan was super exciting and well-paced. But the ways that it fails are completely mystifying. One of my favourite parts of the books is The Wolf Dream and Tel'aran'rhiod. Lanfear uses it some, but it's never really explained, and the Wolf Dream aspect has been almost completely glossed over. I loved The Wolf Dream so much that I wrote a song about it! But it's mostly absent from the show. I mean, The books are very long and sometimes too complex to fully realize in a series, but they could've easily fit some more of the things in the series by making smarter choices. They don't seem to be terribly far-sighted. Why was Rand's first time seeing Elayne's face when she tried to heal him in this episode? Also Loial's backstory is completely absent. If I hadn't read the books the Ogier wouldn't make any sense at all. Also ter'angreal are pretty much only understood by people who have read the books, there was never an adequate explanation of them in the show. I'd hate to be someone who hasn't read the books trying to muddle through this show. But, having read them, I do really enjoy seeing it's characters come to life.
Maybe Amazon needs to realize that 8 episodes per season is just too short to adequately tell such a complex story. I hate this new trend of 6 to 8 episodes per season. The Marvel Netflix shows had 13 episode seasons, which worked great! Maybe the old standard of 23-26 episodes per season is too much for today's world, but 13 would at least give them time to develop all the different important aspects fully. 6-8 episodes per season just seems like a lazy cop out, unless the episode runtime is like an hour and a half to two hours or something.
@@m.scottmcgahan9900 I agree I wish there were more episodes!! They seem so close to the mark on something’s and very far on others. I really hope to see an improved dive into the characters we know and love moving further. We can only hope!
