@W3OY-RAY thanks Ray 😅 i really enjoy the assa/ruko locks too. yeah not sure I can pick that ruko 600 😅 atleast not with any of the picks I own. If it had the ruko 500 keyway it would be a breeze lol I'm thinking if I thin the shank on my 15 thou deep hook I may be able to wind it through the warding so i don't disturb the front pins. Would weaken my ability to set pins, but gins don't take too much force, so hopefully it works 🤞