Interesting question for you. Napoleon Had a kid Charles Leon he was a failure but before Napoleon III was often seen as a potential successor to Napoleon. Out of curiosity if we went by the male-preference primogeniture Napoleon Claimed for his empire. Who would be the ruler of France today if Charles Leon took power?
@@cattysplatBritain couldve fallen, but the Nazis still likely would’ve lost as long as Lend-Lease was still in effect due to the eastern front. Stalingrad was a pivotal moment
One of the most interesting what ifs is a much earlier cutoff. If the HRE federalized early enough, some of the Low Countries and Swiss Cantons likely are viewed as very distinct German sub-identities, in a more extreme way than the way Bavarians are today Edit: any chance we get a what if on this scenario?
@@robertedwards2959 South Tyrol for sure, but at most some neighboring areas to it. Italian as a language is just far too different, where Dutch is close enough linguistically that 400 years ago it could’ve been changed just slightly into a different dialect
@@TherealMatthias1998400 years ago there wasnt widespread standardised Dutch or German. All regions for the most part spoke regional dialects which fits together like a puzzle meaning that for example people from gelre would be just as different from westphalians as for example Bavarians would be in a lot of ways.
@@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk that’s what I meant. If they centralized and federalized sooner, Dutch might just be considered a very distinct dialect. As a native German speaker, Swiss German barely sounded like the same language to me in the first few months
Most realistic scenario is Austria dissolving the dual monarchy to form the Germán empire and turning most of it's former empire into either very authonomous provinces or just puppet states. But yes the hungarian nobility would be hard to convince
@petergeramin7195 basically they were the 2nd largest population demographic in the empire (hence why the Austrian Empire became Austria-Hungary later, it was a compromise between the ruling classes to share power) and if the Austrian Empire was to unite the remaining Germans then the Hungarians loses their relevance. And by Hungarians I generally mean the Ruling aristocratic class. There's an excellent video by 'Historica Civillis' called the "The Congress of Vienna" that goes into detail about this which I highly recommend just for the sheer Entertainment factor alone ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QtOXq9SwarQ.htmlsi=HLfoh9vybuhOYj35
That's basically what lead to the final downfall of the Empire. Many skilled and smart politician especially from Cisleithania (so the Austrian half of the empire, Bohemia, Austria and Illyria) pushed for reforms that could have saved Austria Hungary but the Hungarian nobility kept refusing everything, even such trivial things as incorprating Slovakia.
Even if they did want to unite the German speaking world, they'd still thrown a hissy fit, simply because they wouldn't want to agree with the Austrians
Austria: "How are we going to deal with all these angry ethnic groups?" Franz Ferdinand: "Maybe stop repressing them?" Gavrilo Princep: "Oh no, they're about to figure it out!"
To be frank, by the point of Franz Ferdinand, Austria-Hungary was too far gone to feasibly modernize and fix the issues that plagued the Dual Monarchy. As nationalism rose, the ethnics within increasingly wished to not be a part of the Austrian empire, and even at that point the Hungarians wanted out. The ethnic and cultural issues were likely too much to handle, and even if not for WW1 the internal struggles would have caused collapse
@@Dedelblute3I've always wanted an alt-histroy HOI4 mod, called "Osterreich: What if Franz Ferdinand's Driver Didn't F*ck Up?", where a huge part of A-H would be about reforming an empire that REALLY wants to die.
@@timesnewlogan2032 Really that all depends on three-ish factors: How hard Franz Ferdinand tries to fix the Dual Monarchy, how much resistance he gets from the minorities and the elites (neither of whom particularly wanted to reform it), and WW1, which would have likely still happened - the geopolitical situation in multiple areas was nearly at a breaking point, and if the war starts Austria-Hungary would probably collapse by the end of it, as it did in our timeline.
@@Dedelblute3 The vast majority of Slavs remained loyal to the emperor until the year 1917, especially us Croats. "After the declaration of war on the 28th of July, new manifestations of support for the war took place. The arrival of recruited soldiers at the Zagreb barracks was greeted with shouts of "Long live the Croatian army!", to which the recruits replied "Long live Croatia, long live the Croatian king!"".
@@Pajdas610 I think my point is laid out more properly in my second reply; I will admit that I am unsure as to the exact situation regarding the dual monarchy around ww1, so again it really just matters on those three factors I mentioned before. If resistance was low and the reform had high support l amongst the powerful in the empire then yes, Austria Hungary probably could’ve remained in power for a lot longer.
What if the Republic collapsed and the Communists took over while the Remnants of the Republic either fled to France or Prussia forming a Goverment in Exile.
Well that’s kind of what happens when the Allies starve your country for years, have a humiliating peace treaty imposed upon you after fighting half the world to a standstill literally single-handed, and to top all it off the single most important figure that could keep most if not all the chaos at bay through respect of his mere presence was betrayed by his own military and government , deposed illegally, then exiled from the country of his birth, never to return, thus collapsing the very foundation upon which the stability of the country was built. Wild doesn’t even come close to describing, let alone illustrating, the chaos that was the German Revolution after the armistice of 1918.
One of my personnal favorite WHAT IF is if the "Dritten Deutschland" (third Germany) succeded and Bavaria would unite the South german states to challenge Austria and Prussia's rule
@@flyingsquirrell6953 Actually he only bankrupted his personal finances. He was very careful to never use state funds for it (though he was frequently accused of it even when he was still alive).
What time is this taking place? I‘m assuming you mean the third reich/drittes Reich which was the name of the nazis for Germany back then. However I don’t get why Bavaria is being considered as their own empire in your telling? Bavaria was always part of the third reich since Bavaria was also part of the Weimarer Republik which was the democratic Germany before the system collapsed…
@@m.s.8927can’t have that. The Brit’s and the French would drag Germany into wars until they split up again. There is no timeline in which a United Germany can exist.
@@imGeistevereint Aus 1848 heraus durchaus möglich. Kurze Zeit danach befänden sich die Briten und Russen im „great game“ und da die Briten selbst nicht bereit wären, absurde Mengen an Soldaten zu opfern und die Franzosen allein dafür nicht ausreichen (und zu dem Zeitpunkt den deutschen Ländern auch nicht allzu feindlich gesinnt waren), würde es diesem hypothetischen deutschen Staat genug Zeit geben sich zu festigen. Ohne dass Österreich-Ungarn Stunk mit Russland macht, würde da auch keine Feindschaft entstehen, bis die von Russland beherrschten Völker zum Nationalismus finden und den Laden in der Form zum Einsturz bringen. Und wie gesagt, ohne dass die Russen Millionen ihrer Leute auf die Schlachtbank führen=kein Krieg.
@@robertedwards2959 Oto III surviving to old age would have literally have avoided the Great Schism and the Sack of Constantinople. Had he survived he would have married the firstborn daughter and heir of Constantine VIII. But probably her younger sister Theodora would have become Empress instead, still the future Emperors of the HRE and ERE would have been cousins. And the survival of the Ottonian dynasty would probably mean that just like France, the HRE would eventually become an officially hereditary monarchy. Needless to say centralization would have happened sooner. It would also mean a Papacy more dependant on the Emperor
@igorlopes7589 If we think about it, avoiding the Great Schism could lead to the reintegration of East and West, given a shared interest to resolve differences between each other religiously, this in turn could lead to a Papacy much more independent from HRE by playing each other off one another
Also interesting: Between the 1848 Revolutions and the unification of Germany, some southern German states, especially Bavaria implemented the Trias Policy, also called Third Germany (as a third option between Prussia and Austria). It would have been interesting, if these southern German states remained neutral in the war between Prussia and Austria and instead created their own, more federal and liberal Germany, instead of the Prussian dominated, conservative Germany of our timeline
Can you talk how the border between Catholic and protestant countries in the religious wars goes almost exactly like the ancient northern border of the Roman Empire? It totaly amases me.
@@robertedwards2959 No, it shows that despite the Roman Empire fell, it's cultural influence remained. Regions that used to be part of Rome stayed Catholic, while the "barbaric" part of the HRE turned protestant.
The greatest "What if" that no one ever asks, is what if there was just no major wars at all and we all could chill together and harass each other in sports or smth
The politician who saved Austria in 1848 was on the same level of Bismarck and wanted to form an Empire of German and Austrian lands, but he died shortly after saving the empire.
Wow....I have never thought about that one. Bismarck and Frederich might have had a very different working relationship. Or maybe no Bismarck at all? A less agressive Prussia would have meant a very different Europe by 1900.
Napoleon: ,,Haha, I destroyed your Holy Roman Empire and a lot of German states are now puppets of my new empire. You will now being weak forever." Germany: unites as a direct result of it France: ,,Sacre Bleau"
My favorite pie in the sky what is is "What if Bavaria lead the unification" absolutely impossible in any timeline Prussia exists as a militaristic society but an interesting hypothetical for anyone interested in the potential culture it would've cultivated.
If the Taxis-und-Thurn had form Germany instead, we would have the largest post office in the world and "going postal" would have a totally different meaning.
@@imGeistevereint I'd assume OP is referring to Frederick's vehement opposition to Bismark's unification through force, his plan to rebuild the German government to resemble the British parliamentary system, his extremely close ties to the British Empire through Princess Victoria, and his general liberalism.
@@imGeistevereint I would say more that Wilhelm II let things spin out of control by giving Austria-Hungary a blank chek of support in their dealins with Seria
@@Deltaflot1701 there is no question the Kaiser was incompetent without Bismarck as guide by his side but WW1 was a major conspiracy that came to fruition and minor events like the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was just another piece of the puzzle, although the final one.
I’m from the U.K. and I’m a patriot and I’ve once spent 17 hours straight thinking “What If We Weren’t An Island?” Cause the world would look very weird then
I'm not sure I'd entirely agree. Unless Germany united around the time France did, Germans are going to be highly supportive of aggressively asserting their power on the global stage.
It wouldn't have. It didn't matter to the other European powers at all WHICH Germany united. Just the fact that Germany was united. Germany became very powerful, very quickly. The other European empires were used to having a bunch of small, poor German states that could easily be kicked around, and made to fight each other. France in particular became incredibly paranoid that a united German state would seek revenge for Napolean murdering 40% of the German population when he invaded and fought the Rhine Confederation. England knew that Germany would quickly out develop England and become the premier industrial power in Europe. Fearing the loss of power and prestige to a younger more vigorous empire. No matter who united Germany, it would have turned out the same. Because Germany really had nothing to do with starting the wars. The other European powers had decided that Germany had to die, in 1871, when they unified.
@@robertedwards2959aggressively asserting dominance? Do we forget that 40% of Germans died during the 30year war and the only reason for reunification was being able to defend against its peace-loving neighbors?
If king Wilhelm had told tsar Nicholas during his trip that no Serbian territory was going to be taken maybe Russia would have stayed out of ww1 If only that the German empire did not give the Austrians that "we'll do anything for you" letter the Germans would have stayed out of ww1, As much as the UK and The German empire were naval rivals they had a high admiration of each other, They could have been allies
It's crazy how a collection of tiny states in the center of Europe always has a massive impact on Europe and the rest of the world and it's in one way or another always of importance in any alt-history scenario.
Don't forget this history is about West Francia, France was at one point called East Francia. That means before being Latinized both the Germans and French people were one group. I wish the First Reich never ceased, and we were unified by one emperor, one Nation and one United Catholic faith.
As a Hungarian I am controvertially a stan for the Austria plan for unified Germany, maybe we could have avoided the radical nationalization that way bc Germany would have been way more diverse to begin with
@@vik318 Maybe I didn’t get it because there’s absolutely no correlation between the two + you didn’t even use the correct word. It makes absolutely no sense to create a connection to na zis in this context or to even bring them up at all - given the historical period that this video is speaking about (which was quite some time long before any na zis ever existed with some pretty big events happening in between which you could much better attribute the rise of the na zis to). Are you saying that na zis rose to power because Germans are German, or what? What kind of ridiculous assessment is that. Not to mention that having lots of minorities or one single but big minority within the country can actually be a trigger for extreme (inwarded) nationalism. You should actually know that very well, as a Hungarian yourself and all… The main triggers for the na zis rise to power were the Treaty of Versailles and the subsequent general turmoil in Germany after ww1 and economic ruin because of it. And you could argue that the reason for that very harsh (and actually really unfair) treaty actually kind of was extreme French nationalism which lead to a huge wave of anti-German sentiment after they had lost the war in 1871. Thus the French wanted to severely punish Germany and had waited for a chance to avenge themselves on their own terms - for decades. So, why even go that far back into history to try to create a link to the na zis? That makes zero sense. Especially when we consider that the na zi ideology was born in multinational Austria to begin with, with even their leader being an Austrian. So maybe keep your pettiness to yourself, when you’re making dumb statements… instead of acting like a complete jerk. And don’t forget that ˋradical nationalization‘ isn’t even a word that could be used for na zis. It’s not the same, at all. So that makes response sound even dumber.
My favorite what if for Germany is if Fredrick II had been able to establish a lasting centralized monarchy and it never devolved into regional princes who held all the influence.
Viewing decentralisation as devolution is reductive. Centralisation and absolutism led to the fall of monarchies because it united 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺𝘰𝘯𝘦 against the King. One man can’t control everything, and in trying he ensures his downfall. It shouldn’t swing too far toward the nobles either, but a more feudal system was more sustainable. Balance of powers, as we love to insist upon in governance but hate to think of in geopolitics.
@codieomeallain6635 While you make a good point, I feel that calling the decentralization of the HRE at this juncture appropriate. Decentralization is great as long as everyone works together and collaborates, which the princes did not. I do think the proposed monarchy would still be a feudal system, which, while flexible, has its faults. The main fault of any monarchy is the potential for instability upon succession. Like you pointed out, having one guy who holds it all together can be quite flimsy. I don't know what kind of system could have been put in place given the traditions and laws of the time, but the main reason the pope was not a fan of Fredddy II was the potential for him to form a powerful and lasting state that basically surrounded Rome.
Operation Unthinkable was a possible operation to take back the rest of Germany and beat the USSR suggested by none other than Winston Churchill. So it would more than likely be British, Americans and very few Germans cos they got their army disbanded.
@firesturmgaming don't forget France if things went south. And there are alot of other smaller guys round there. That would have e been ww3. If they did it in 1948 they might have been able do do it before the user had the bomb
The best German what ifs are the one where Germany doesn't exist because you have no WW1 since Austria never would have had the balls to attack Serbia knowing that Russia would get involved without Germany's backing, no rise of communism in Russia because no WW1 to weaken the authority and sow communism, and no WW2 because no Germany and no Communist Russia. That is just looking at the larger picture because on a smaller scale you also have very significant changes both positive and negative happening in various countries not just in Europe but also around the world.
One of my favourite whatifs is “what if the HRE became a centralised power?”, this would essentially create a unified Germany. Just think about how much of a headache this would be for the Fr*nch
I agree with the what ifs being my favorite part of their history too. Just too many possibilities same with some others but they are one of the most numerous examples.
What if there was a south german confederation? What if hitler never became chancellor of the Weimar republic? What if Prussia annexed the southern german states?
They had an uprising and were just supported by the other german regions. They would have got their independence from the danish king anyways. Furthermore they weren’t a part of Denmark before the war, but belonged to the danish king (not the same). The (second) uprising started because the danish parliament forced the danish king to implement Schleswig into Denmark and to give up Holstein because it was in the German Bund already.
How so? The Germans there (who have made up the great majority of the people) have instigated uprisings against danish rule on their own since many years already, prior to any danish falling out with Prussia and Austria. And Austria supported those uprisings as well, not only Prussia. Also Holstein has been a part of the German Federation since 1815 already.
Or Denmark could have become a part of Germany. Considering Danish isn't even that closely related (unlike Dutch), teaching all of those Danes High German would have been... funny.
My favorite, what if for Germany is what if Germany turned communism after World War 1 and seeing people takes on what the second world war would look like is crazy
If the 1848 revolutions across Europe withstood the pressure of the monarchs of Europe, we could of seen the birth of a liberal constitutional monarchy in Germany.
An intresting what if for me is what if germany never united and instead two states emerged with one being a state based on the low german identity (poosibly including the netherlands and flanders) and another based on the high german identity (likely including austria and possibly inclueding switzerland). That could've led to a more stable balance of power so that our WW1 couldn't happen.
What i'd find interesting is what if Baden, Würtemberg and Bavaria didn't join the North German Confederation. Bavaria didn't really want to join and Baden and Würtemberg allied to keep France from snooping in the Rheinland. Maybe without a German Empire we kept out of any future wars. The Conferderation wouldn't have the means to try to keep up with the RN. Kaiser Wilhelm ll would still be a problem though🤔
What if the Prussian King Friedrich Wilhelm IV accepted the Paulskirchenverfassung and the German crown and thereby united Germany in the form of a constitutional monarchy in 1849?
Hmm interesting. But only the noble family, the habsburg (btw from swiss not austria) led germany for a long time (HRR), the folk there still was mainly german ethnic. The same in some parts of austria
Couple of my favorite "what ifs" of german history: What if Napoleon III and the French army had fought as well in the Franco-Prussian War as they did in aide of Sardinia against Austria-Hungary during the Italian unification? What if Germany had not had the Zimmerman telegram incident and been a bit more careful in their sub campaign, instead focusing on increasing the US discontent with British treatment of US flagged ships ostensibly headed to neutral ports in Europe?
What surprises me is after such a long schism between Protestant and Catholic Germans, why did the Catholic South merge with the Protestant North when they could have joined Catholic Austria?😮
For Austria, Unification of Germany was 4 times more important than the eastern part of their empire The thing they wanted to beware of was that nobody would allow austria to unute the germans, as it would destroy the balance if power
I like the part that the Dänish King was more or less begging to join the German empire (after forming), because he saw no sense in an independent Denmark bordering such a Juggernaut! Do you have a specific traveling route in Germany? Some of your german fans might be interested in meeting you, just mentioning, nobody in mind...
Northern German Confederation , South Tyrol and Austria combined would be perfect, since European countries are mostly formed by regions who speak the same language becoming one country, imagine if German had only its previous German speaking land, it would be one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe
I always like to play with the idea of if Kaiser Willy number 2 didn't randomly get super jealous of the Royal Navy and go "hey I want one!" Thus forcing the British, who had historically been aligned with the Germans - the British used Germany as their continental balance against the French, Russians or Austrians getting any sudden ideas because generally German and British international interests just didn't really conflict. Germany had her army to play with on the Continent and Britain had the rest of the Globe and it's Navy - to look at the Germans as an out of control rival - even though ya the British knew the Germans couldn't ACTUALLY challenge the RN, it still signaled a departure from the status quo and the rise in German ambitions. How would Europe have played out? France and the UK were not on particularly good terms and Russia was still suffering staggering internal issues, could we have seen a German + British Empire vs their traditional enemies of France + Austria and Russia? Or would we have ended up with essentially a Pan-European was against the Ottomans? An Anglo-German alliance would almost certainly have been able to overcome an alliance of any 2 other major Euro players and possibly given a good run at a 2 v 3, who would get involved? Would France want to get involved knowing the Germans are on one flank and the British have a dagger at their back and could completely cut them off from their colonies with ease? In the late 1880s and 90s the idea that the Prussian Court would end up at odds with the English throne was an almost laughable proposition