I pretty much agree with you on everything. I love tool steel vs stainless also. I can't stand S30v personally but I love Cts xhp since it is tougher and so easy to sharpen. Also agree on the well done m390.
XHP is easy to work with an takes a nice edge but it's performance in use is too meh for me. I'd rather have the better sharpening, stainless of LC200N or get the edge retention of S90V personally.
Try this progression on s30: Edge destress (cut into your diamond stone to plateau it) Coarse diamond Fine/600grit diamond Spyderco medium rod/clean ceramic rod Do this at 15-17 dps. I tend to feel that s30v is more aggressive than xhp, but I can get a scary edge on xhp easier.
My biggest influences when is comes to steels, sharpening, geometry have been Kyley Harris (knivesandstuff) and Cliff Stamp, so I tend to lean towards their school of thought so when it comes to favorite stainless I like AEBL at 62-63 HRC ground super thin. Takes a super fine edge and I can bring it back to shaving sharp in under 2 or 3 mins so edge retention doesn't matter as much.
AEB-L is a lot of fun and one of the best sharpening stainless steels I've come across even in the sub 61HRc range. Really sweet for kitchen knives at high hardness! For EDC use though it really doesn't hold up for me. I'm surprised by that fact because LC200N does pretty well for me while having lower hardness and theoretically lower carbide volume but it seems to be the case nonetheless.
I totally agree with the lc200n statement... custom HT nitroV is insanely good as a "low end" type stainless but no one is doing really good factory nitrov you have to go to custom HTers to really see what NitroV is capable of and it sharpens up oh so crispy.
Good insight. Ive had many knives from budget to customs in the thousands. Still love m4 and cruwear for the every day use. And imo not a fan boy by any means but Spyderco does a great job from a heat treat to quality/cost ratio. Really steering away from the we/reate/ Chinese ti knives even though alot are "pretty" so to speak. and unfortunately a lot of US companies have been skipping on heat treats too now a days. I haven't tried s45vn or any magnacut as of yet.
I wouldn’t necessarily call myself a Spyderco fanboy either but damn do I love the company! Not everything they do is perfect or up my alley but they do a great job I’m super curious about hat S45Vn is like with the heat treats companies are putting on it.
Appreciate your insight. My only suggestion would be to add knives in S45VN and especially VANAX (maybe a Quiet Carry Drift/Waypoint) to your collection-if for no other reason than comparison's sake-as those seem like the only glaring omissions in your experience with stainless steels. Considering that they are two of the most promising stainless compositions, getting your thoughts on them would go a long way toward making your advice feel more comprehensive and cogent from a viewer's perspective.
Yeah I would like to get my hands on both of them for sure. I think they would be incremental improvements to others than I have experienced and not really surpass anything which I why I haven't pulled the trigger. I genuinely just live in a Rex45,M4,K390,10V world so I have a hard time bothering with something that doesn't really add value to the experience you know?
Writing before viewing these are my favs no order. M390 group from spyderco, S90v, CTS-XHP, 14c28n, lc200n. S110v tho get a sticky edge takes work on 110v. Non favorites n690, most 8crxx, benchmade s30, and of course the special “stainless” from gas stations and promo knives.
I have a 20CV endela I was impressed with it gets sticky sharp, deburrs easily, It takes and holds a nicer edge than TRM’s 20CV. I just picked up a 20cv endura from knifejoy as I like spyderco’s 20CV, and at $115 a 20cv endura is a steel steal.
Hi Justin, I've got the Spyderco Caribbean in LC200N and as you know the Meglio in MagnaCut. For maintenance on the Venev stones we've discussed in the past (240/400 & 800/1200) what would you recommend for these two knives? Thanks!
For LC200N I actually like a super polished edge. I would normally go from 400 through 1200, maybe throw in a Spyderco UF and then strop 0.5um or lower. On the KME I go 140grit up to 1500grit diamond, Translucent Arkansas, Spyderco UF, 4um down to 0.5um CBN. For the sake of brevity probably just: 400F, 800F, 1200F, 0.5um. For Magnacut it always gets sticky on the Meglio but I really do not enjoy a super polished edge. Stop at 3K/800F for sure. Maybe 240F, 400F, minimal strokes just to deburr on 800F and 1um strop 2-3passes per side max.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Thanks, will follow. How are you liking your Meglio? Mine came with some uneven grind patterns on the right branded side, but completely smooth and even on the left side. I used 600 3M sandpaper wrapped around a rectangular block of wood following the original vertical strokes and that evened it out pretty good. Otherwise, it's a real slicer and holding a pretty good edge. I've only stropped once with 0.5 Gunny Juice on basswood which is what Scott Gunn uses. I've knicked myself a couple of times with that sharp heel point.
Trying to remember the original egde. I think I had one little high spot on one side towards the front 1/3 of the blade. Nothing crazy and can't see it anymore since I lowered the angle. I've been extremely happy with the handle, cutting profile, rounded spine, sharpening response. I've been happy with the primary grind as it's very balanced with a solid slicey lean to it. Can handle any hard ingredient easily. Definitely not a laser but better than 85% of the blades I have. I'm okay with the edge geometry and hardness. I wish the edge was a bit thinner from the start to account for thickening up over time. But I get that it's a general purpose knife that appeals to many and it's designed to not require sharpening for a long time so the geometry matches the purpose well. Just my taste could be thinner, close the 0.008" BTE at 13dps maybe. Going forward with that I wish the heat treat was a little harder because my up front sharpness doesn't last super long but it holds a tomato skin slicing edge FOREVER it seems especially with light stropping. I'm slowly pushing the edge angle lower to see if my concerns about being too soft to hold thin geometry are correct or not. So far I have seen zero rolling or chipping in a lot of use at the 15dps and 14dps ranges. Those are just guesses as it's freehand. Overall on the heat treat. I suspect that I will not have any rolling issues and the microstructure does WONDERs for sharpening. So the little loss of up front sharpness is worth it I think. Very nicely done.
I’ll admit I haven’t explored stainless kitchen knives nearly enough to give a perfect answer. That said I’ve used X50CrMoV15, SG2, CTS-BD1N, AEB-L, Magnacut, VG-10, AUS-10. 1) Overall SG2 at 63HRc target is my favorite combination of traits for stainless. Holds a great fine edge but will continue to cut really well even when it’s diminished a bit. Super easy to work with using quality Japanese water stones. 2) Magnacut could be slightly better than SG2 but my example is a tiny bit softer than I’d like and it likes to be sharpened with diamond abrasives. Really, really well done. If harder would probably overtake SG2. 3) CTS-BD1N is awesome. My example has a target hardness of 63HRc. Issue is that in order to get that the heat treat isn’t amazing so it’s a son of a gun to deburr. Once the edge is clean it’s an awesome performer.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Thanks for the detailed answer. I only have experienced with budget steels like x50CrMoV15, VG10 (Tojiro DP petty) and Aus8. All of them lose initial sharpness very quickly that I think there might be foil edges there (not grabbing 3 fingers after slicing 2-3 apples, etc.). I have tried jointing and light passes which I think is the best way to get rid the foil edge. Still the knives lose sharpness fairly quickly. Wonder if it is my skill or my expectation is probably too high. How is your experience with Tojiro DP petty in terms of edge retention? As this seems to be the only knife that we share experience with. If I remember correctly, I think in some other videos you said it is on a soft side of VG10.
S45vn blows S30v and S35vn away, I’ll take it over 20cv all day. One of my all time favorite budget steels is nitrov I view it as a budget Magnacut, a steel that is tough, takes a good edge and, holds it decently. Not to mention it’s super cheap. American companies should utilize it more as a budget option. My DLT para 3 in M390 tested at 62 HRC.
S45VN is definitely on my list to try somewhere down the road. I've been pretty surprised how quickly most companies adopted heat treatments in the 60-62HRc range. Not sure if I'm going to get something real nice like a CRK or go to the trusty spydie.
I’m sorry I don’t have a lot! Never used it! However I’d say that S45VN probably behaves enough like it from the American side of things and it’s a super sweet mid range edge retention stainless. One of the best all rounders in the heat treat I have from Spyderco. Maybe give it a try for a similar or better experience
@@EngineersPerspective701 Also, how come LC200n is only really used by spyderco? I really want to try it out after your review, but struggled to find it being used by any other makers. Nothing wrong with spyderco, it just seems odd for a non proprietary steel.
You may be able to find it under the analog names: Cronidur30 or Z-Finit. I think a big part is processing and cost required. It is not easy to heat treat LC200N and get the hardness and performance we're used to from Spyderco. It's also not a steel that is produced in large amounts due to difficulty of smelting. Adding lots of nitrogen and the pressurized electroslag remelting (PESR) process are not something everyone is capable of. Check out the article below. Also there is a lot of design consideration taken into the knife itself for actually maximized the corrosion resistance, considering galvanic corrosion, etc. knifesteelnerds.com/2021/06/28/lc200n-cronidur-30-history-and-properties/
I really don't see the appeal of XHP at all. My experience has been that all of the good things that are said about it only hold up when you compare it to stainless steels, but its not stainless in actual real word use. Sure, it takes a nice crisp edge and sharpens easy when you compare it to something like s30v, but when you compare it to something like Cruwear (which has similar corrosion resistance in my experience) it's not even in the same weight class when talking about edges/sharpening.
😂 This guy clearly has some vendetta against Magnacut. No one would consider magnacut a mid tier steel. I think he hasn’t used any well heat treated magnacut or something. The more videos I see the more I realize he doesn’t really know what he is talking about.
@@EngineersPerspective701 What a thoughtful rebuttal! Honestly though how can you justify Magnacut being a mid tier steel? You have M390 as a high tier steel but Magnacut with a good heat treat has roughly the same level of edge retention, slightly better corrosion resistance, and significantly higher toughness.
@@jonesyxxiv Just trying to avoid wasting both our time. You have to read the title of the video and that's all there is to it. I prefer to speak from my own experiences as a primary source. Yes cutting cardboard people get a lot out of magnacut in their tests. But what does it actually perform like in real life? I personally don't just cut 400' of cardboard until it won't cut copy paper in daily life. The way I like an edge to break down and my level of "good enough" sharpness doesn't match that use case. 4V is in the same class of carbide volume at ~8vol% VC. My only example of it is a St Nicks Para 3, probably 65HRc about. Although I enjoy it, would absolutely not put it into the high edge retention category. The edge doesn't break down like a higher carbide steel does, simple as that. So seeing as how my experience with the Magnacut mule went, along with the 4V, I would firmly put it into mid-tier edge retention camp.
BINGO FOR S90V: FAVOURITE!… &, IT FORGES BEAUTIFULLY WITH S35VN, AS EITHER A DAMASCUS OR A LAMINATE. AEB-L, & MAGNACUT @ HIGH HARDNESS PERFORM VERY WELL TOO.
LC200N has no equal in the kitchen. Its toughness means it can be reground super thin, and it can still take lots of abuse. Spyderco is selling LC200N short with their 0.025" BTE blade geometry.
I've been pretty blown away by the performance you're getting out of LC200N. I would have previously thought that it wouldn't have the strength with that low hardness to support that geometry, bravo! I do think hard magnacut is the step forward in terms of high performance edges in stainless. For me it's a smooth transition, 60HRc Magnacut.
Only custom stuff. Of course Triple B but idk how he does his books so not sure about availability. You could track down someone else like TroopahKnives that may have more capacity. I would have said Meglio but Brandon closed his books to custom orders.
