I will have to give Sniper Elite a try, you make it sound interesting! I LOVE Mind MGMT. Everything about it. And I don't mind the downtime as the Recruiter, because it gives me the opportunity to listen to the Rogue Agents' conversation and reasoning, adjusting my own strategy as necessary. It's a deduction game, but also a subtle social engineering game. I'm happiest when gaslighting my friends and loved ones.
That horribly awkward moment when you look at the statue on Jon's shelf and realize you and it are doing the same pose and remember your posture has slowly devolved back into that of a prawn...
I got the retail copy of Mind Management and loved it so much, I ordered the 2nd KS deluxe edition AND upgrade components for my old copy so that I can gift it to someone I know would love it. It is not only my favorite hidden movement, it is easily in my top 10 favorite games.
Wow, this is a really cool way to review these games. In-depth for each one, and keeping me guessing at which game you'll end up recommending. You did a great job getting into the nuances of each game, their strengths, weaknesses, and why you like them both, but favor the one you recommend.
I have been so interested in trying Sniper Elite. Love the looks of it. :-) David Thompson has become one of my favorite board game designers in recent years.
Thank you for great descriptions and analysis of these two games. Very helpful, as well as entertaining. You are a great youtuber/reviewer/entertainer! Keep up the great work.
Thanks for this review! Letters from Whitechapel is my favorite hidden movement game (so far) but now Sniper Elite is on my want to play list too! (Mind MGMT was already on my list and still is because I like deduction a lot)
You exactly captured my feelings on MM! Especially the wilderness survival analogy. There are many layers of deduction to this game, but I felt like my turns would take too long if I tried exploring them all, so I played more on instinct to not be rude, but I felt like I was missing out.
I haven’t even watched this video yet but I already love it. Was thinking to myself earlier today, I wish someone would do a video on which is better Sniper Elite or Mind Mgmt. and then, poof, here it is!
I purchased Sniper Elite and the expansion knowing nothing about the game. I actually got into the recently released video game version. Very excited to hear this review!
Unless I'm missing something, Letters from Whitechapel got a revised edition in 2020 that is still in print and seems to be available at many online retailers.
Thank you very much for your review. Mind Mgmt was on my radar and Sniper Elite was nowhere near until I watched your video. I ended up ordering Sniper Elite with its exhansion.
I always like the idea of the genre since I saw in Draculas Fury on Tabletop, but never could find a theme in it I vibe with enough until I found Beast. Looking forward to when it gets shipped to me.
Terrific review. Just picked up a copy of Mind MGMT and now will be looking for a copy of Sniper Elite! The rule book for Mind MGMT sure is a challenge!
I came here for info on Sniper Elite as I've never tried this Genre. However Mind MGMT looks more like the game for me! I liked the video and the side-by-side review style of two similar games. Hope I get to try this one out soon!
The issue with hidden movement games is that whoever is playing the "hidden", in any design, just has a much better more intense gaming experience. The "hunters" can be a good gaming experience but it's just not on the same level as the "hunted". I only ever play hidden movement games as 2p affairs.
letter from whitechapel is my favourite because is the one more fun to be the hunter for me, a lot of hidden movements games have the mechanic that if the hunter lose the trail he lose all the work he did, while in letter you are just getting near his hiddeout for the next round. Of all the hidden movements games you played, what was the one that you liked more playing as hunter? I think that playing the spy/assassin usually is the best part of these games. Tried the introduction of Mind mgmt and was a very good game, and now I want to try sniper elite, but it looks like specter ops, and in that game I didn't like that hunters walked at the same speed as the spy unless you went to the car first.
Love your coverage. I bought Mind MGMT. But haven’t got it yet. Now I want Elite sniper instead! Oh the pain … I’ve bought a few too many games recently. 😅
Now I’ve finally played both games I can totally see what John means - MM is great but it’s way more fiddly and unintuitive that SE. MM is definitely a gamers’ game whereas SE feels more welcoming. That said I really like how quickly MM gets going and how the hunters quickly get info so they don’t have a long period of hopeless failed searching at the start
Jon, I don't recall whether you've shared your opinion on Whitehall Mystery vs Letters from Whitechapel. I'm curious to hear how the simplified board and ruleset felt to someone who really loved the original.
I always liked Whitehall Mystery more in theory than in practice. It keeps so much that I love about Letters from Whitechapel and shortens it (although not by enough). But in reality, there was something about the arc of the game that I didn't like as much. It plays out the same way every game, because of the 4 districts. It's been many years since I've played it, and I would play it again, but something didn't click with me enough to supplant Whitechapel. I get why people prefer it though, and it is by no means a bad game.
@@actualol I find myself in a similar boat. I was hoping Whitehall would get a Whitechapel-esque experience to the table more frequently but the subdivision of the map into districts hinders the potential for exciting moments just as much as it fosters creating them.
Mind Mgmt is in my Top 5 of all time games. How they locked into the theme is amazing and I'd say only War of the Ring is on par with it. Sniper Elites seems interesting, but what was pointed out in this review is what makes me hesitant and that is playing as the hunters seems like it could be absolutely terrible. Where as Mind Mgmt playing either side is loads of fun. As the Rogue Agents, hunting is a brilliant mind warp and as the Recruiter, watching and listening to what's going on in their heads is brilliant and the game is always tense.
Hey, than you for this analysis! I like Fury of Dracula a lot, but getting it to the table after a year or two is always a chore. Might try Sniper Elite instead!
wow this was a lovely review m8..iam gonna put sniper elite into my wishlist...i had letters from whitechapel but after "the upgrade" to whitehall mystery i got rid of it too big....been looking for a good hidden deduction game for a while...what about narcos?fury od D was way too long sold it also.
Narcos is more complicated and it has other stuff going on, so it doesn't feel like other hidden movement games. I didn't love it but if you're into the theme it could work for you.
I am in LOVE with deduction games. One of my favorite right now even if I've played it only once is Paint the Roses. This game is all about deduction! I wasn't sure if I made a good choice bying Mind MGMT but with this review I know I did the right thing. This is the first time I hear about Sniper Elite but it sound like it is more in the same vein as Beast, a hidden movement game that I backed on kickstarter. If I get the chance to, I'll grab Sniper Elite to!
For another action orientated hidden movement game, give BEAST a look. Should hopefully hit retail early next year. 1 player plays a BEAST (one of various choices with unique upgrades and actions) vs 4 Hunters. You can give the TTS mod a try as well. With that said - big fan of Whitechappel and Fury of Dracula (3rd ed). Great games.
I was checking Beast out after seeing BoardGameCo's video. How would you say it compares to Fury of Dracula or Letters From Whitechapel? I also love Jaws as a hidden movement game. Wish the production was better, but it is what it is.
@@5ammy13 BEAST is much more action orientated than either of those. In LfW you have to manage your movement choices and time mainly and in FoD you can fight if you want, but you can also just run down the clock if you get lucky with evading. In BEAST you will be fighting and revealing yourself frequently. The card drafting happening at the start of the game and dawn of each day forces your tactics to adapt and depending on what contract you are playing it will greatly influence your playstyle and upgrade choices. Not to mention the varying BEASTS. Playing Raaga is vastly different than playing Bolgin. As is Fenrir and Hogbad. The game oozes theme and leans in hard to the setting. I think with all the variables on offer it will take a lot of plays to explore all the content - which makes it a great value proposition. But if you're only into hide and seek style hidden movement games BEAST won't be for you. You'll be squaring off often to weaken and attack the Hunters and settlements to accomplish Grudge goals and objectives to pay for upgrades each night. I don't necessarily think it is better than any other hidden movement game per se, but what it sets out to do it does damn well.
@@hendrickstrauss3311 that's a great response. Thanks for the detailed descriptions and feedback. I am excited to grab it when it hits retail next year. Right now I'm waiting for my Mind Mgmt pre order to arrive so I can dig into that. I also think finding games like LfWC or Specter Ops isn't as hard as Jon makes it out to be. In fact I ordered Nuns on the Run just a couple of weeks ago for a very reasonable price. So lots of Hidden Movement games to pick from, but I'm definitely excited to play Mind Mgmt and also wait for Beast to come to retail.
So, whitechapel was one of my grail games. A game I’d play with those that own it and at cons for years. I love it. I got myself a copy a few years ago and was so happy. But this year I’ve acquired mind mgmt and now I’m tempted to cull whitechapel. I really love mind mgmt. as for sniper elite, I really need to give it a try. I won’t lie, the bland theming off a video game was a big turn off for me. It didn’t look interesting at all. But, I do love myself a good hidden movement game. Thnx!
Well in Mind MGMT you are Psychic, so any clue can be explained thematically. Also, if you want no one has to play the hidden side, there is an app for that!
Judging by the comments you may have the 80/20 split flipped. I haven’t played any hidden movement games but I went all in on Mind MGMT and Beast so if I like them I will check out Sniper Elite too. Thanks for your input 👍🏻
By the way Jon, you ever thought of making a video solely focused on hidden movement games, or at least your top 5? They're a super interesting genre and I'm pretty sure people would enjoy your insight on them :)
That's what this video is! Honestly, I wouldn't go back to the older games because they're not available anymore and their time has kind of passed. My old mega review video covers most of them. I love the genre, but I don't think it's big enough or popular enough to do a full Top 5 - there is probably only 5 hidden movement games I even like.
As a hidden movement aficionado I really need to give Sniper Elite a try, however I prefer the more deductive approach of Whitechapel and Mind MGMT over the "action oriented" style of hidden movement games like Specter Ops. (By the way, for me Whitechapel is a 10/10 and Mind MGMT is a 9.5/10).
@@brykhousegames2189 can you suggest one specific game that does both things right? I have already played Sniper Elite and I can confirm it does not have the deduction aspect, it is very casual and random.
John I just don’t get it. Have you ever played sonar the little brother of capt sonar. Not sure why it’s not talked about. 2 subs hunting each other turn based with the option to make hidden movements. Plus you can design your own maps in minutes. Feed back please
I have played it a few years ago, and I didn't enjoy it. But I am struggling to remember why. Do you really like it? Perhaps I should give it another go sometime.
Do you think that Alone is a sort of hidden movement game variant for the human player where the map itself is hidden? Like how Treasure Island is hidden movement but without the movement.
@@actualol definitely more of a dungeon crawler, but hey, things can fall into multiple categories, it's currently on my shelf of shame after your coverage, so will be interesting to see how I feel about it's hidden movement aspects when I play it.
@Actualol If you indeed do like hidden movement games, you may be interested in "10 minutes to Kill". It's nowhere a recent nor a heavy game, but the hidden movement is strong in this one, plus you get to play as hunanoid animals!
Mind MGMT was a complete dud for me. I haven't tried Sniper Elite. Honestly, Jaws is my go to hidden movement. It's honestly just a hoot. I love the two different acts. It's just a fun, enjoyable experience. Mind MGMT is one of very few games I can honestly say I will never play again. I can find enjoyment out of most gaming experiences. If you're excited about it, I'd play it. Not Mind MGMT though. Never again.
Hi, now one year has passed since you published this video. Do you still think SE is worth getting? I got a few months ago MMGT but after a few plays the weird theme really alienated me and I ended up selling it. Cheers!
@@actualol Thank you, I appreciate it :) I played Whitechapel and I think it was the first modern hidden movement game I tried and we had lots of fun however I felt the game loop was a bit too simplistic and I was looking for something similar but with a bit more replay value to add to my collection. I feel SE might fit the bill. Thanks again!
My concern about these games is that the movement mechanics are the game. Kind of a one trick pony. How many replays can you get before the novelty wears out?
Have you played one? I don't think they're any less replayable than any other genre of game. Of course, some people don't find them interesting, like any genre, but I think there's plenty of depth of strategy and variability to keep it interesting.
